Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:01 pm

Spicer is smart as a whip, though. BROI had a point about that:

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“Dickens is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more for his music, I notice.”
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:09 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Spicer is smart as a whip, though. BROI had a point about that:


True, and he was on firmer ground that I originally thought when he made his supposed "Holocaust denial" comments.

Image

FDR wrote:Statement Warning the Axis Against Using Poison Gas.
June 8, 1943

From time to time since the present war began there have been reports that one or more of the Axis powers were seriously contemplating use of poisonous or noxious gases or other inhumane devices of warfare.

I have been loath to believe that any Nation, even our present enemies, could or would be willing to loose upon mankind such terrible and inhumane weapons. However, evidence that the Axis powers are making significant preparations indicative of such an intention is being reported with increasing frequency from a variety of sources.

Use of such weapons has been outlawed by the general opinion of civilized mankind. This country has not used them, and I hope that we never will be compelled to use them. I state categorically that we shall under no circumstances resort to the use of such weapons unless they are first used by our enemies.

As President of the United States and as Commander in Chief of the American armed forces, I want to make clear beyond all doubt to any of our enemies contemplating a resort to such desperate and barbarous methods that acts of this nature committed against any one of the United Nations will be regarded as having been committed against the United States itself and will be treated accordingly. We promise to any perpetrators of such crimes full and swift retaliation in kind and I feel obliged now to warn the Axis armies and the Axis peoples, in Europe and in Asia, that the terrible consequences of any use of these inhumane methods on their part will be brought down swiftly and surely upon their own heads. Any use of gas by any Axis power, therefore, will immediately be followed by the fullest possible retaliation upon munition centers, seaports, and other military objectives throughout the whole extent of the territory of such Axis country.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=16407



Eisenhower meeting wrote:Memo of Discussion at the 204th Meeting of the National Security Council, Thursday, June 24, 1954

The President [Eisenhower] noted the analogous German problem with respect to the use of poison gases in the later stages of World War II. In view of the fact that the attacking allied forces had the Germans encircled, it was much easier for the allies to make effective use of such gases than for the Germans to do so. The Germans realized that the use of poison gas would therefore be a strategic error.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldoc ... v02p1/d120


Eisenhower meeting wrote:Memo of Discussion at the 227th Meeting of the National Security Council, Friday, December 3, 1954

The President [Eisenhower] said he agreed with Secretary Humphrey on this point, although it was significant that in World War II the Germans had not resorted to the use of poison gas. Even Hitler was too horrified at the prospect of gas warfare when he hesitated to use gas, and, of course, he also feared that the allies would retaliate with something as bad or worse. There were some, said the President, who believe that modern warfare imposes its own limitations.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldoc ... v02p1/d138



US - Soviet conference wrote:Memo of Discussion at the 267th Meeting of the National Security Council, Camp David, Maryland, November 21, 1955

Molotov, in reply to our insistence on the importance of inspection and control, had cited the fact that neither side used poison gas during the Second World War, although there was of course no inspection or control. Molotov had urged that the weight of public opinion was sufficient to assure the compliance of each nation with its obligations under an agreed disarmament plan. Secretary Dulles had expressed to Molotov extreme skepticism as to the validity of this argument, pointing out that the fear that the other side would use gas had been the real deterrent on its use.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldoc ... 57v05/d384



Nuremberg Military Tribunal Judegement wrote:Although neither side in World War II used poison gas, its employment was always a threatened possibility, and in anticipation of its use the concentration camp scientists experimented to ascertain the best treatment for wounds caused by Lost, commonly known as mustard gas.

POHL et al.
US Military Tribunal Nuremberg, Judgment of 3 November 1947
Concurring Opinion by Judge Michael A. Musmanno.

Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:46 am

It's Xmas Eve: why don't you go and pick up "Suds" Traynor from the pub floor

Nice try on the above. But context doesn't bother you.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:39 am

Wtf does all that have to do with Holocaust centers? And Dickens’ favorite holiday tunes?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:34 pm

Holocaust centres, Holocaust killing centres; tomato, tomato.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005145
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:44 pm

Killing center . . . good find, never heard that before (tho' the article never uses the new preferred phrase, "Holocaust killing center," you may have a winner there, too). Jeez, you've proved it, Spicer is a deep thinker on genocide and has robust theories about the extermination of the Jews. I think you be growing a tomato for a brain.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:45 pm

Gord wrote:The allies were prepared to use chemical weapons. Probably the biggest reason invoked at the time to NOT use them was because the Germans would probably retaliate likewise. We probably shouldn't preen ourselves on our moral hindsight.


FDR was prepared to use gas only if the Nazis fired first. But Churchill was chomping at the bit to gas millions of German civilians, despite being aware that the Nazis had no intention of using chemical weapons themselves.

Churchill's advisers talked him down by telling him a) it would slow the Allied advance into Germany; b) when it comes to air-raids, the British are complete pussies compared to the Germans

ANNEX I
Copy of a Minute dated 28th July, 1944
from General Ismay to the Prime Minister


1. The Chiefs of Staff this morning considered the report on Chemical Warfare, copy of which was handed to you at the Cabinet last night. The Chiefs of Staff adopted the report, subject to certain amendments which are shown sidelined in the attached revised version.

2. There is one point, however, which the Chiefs of Staff consider has not been given sufficient weight. It is true we could drench the big German cities with an immeasurably greater weight of gas than the Germans could put down on this country. Other things being equal, this would lead to the conclusion that it would be to our advantage to use the gas weapon. But other things are not equal. There is no reason to believe that the German authorities would have any greater difficulty in holding down the cowed German population, if they were subjected to gas attack, than they have had during the past months of intensive high explosive and incendiary bombings.

3. The same cannot be said for our own people, who are in no such inarticulate condition. His Majesty' s Government have had to give the closest attention to ways and means of alleviating the results of the relatively very light scale of attack by the flying bombs and considerable potential interference with the war effort is involved.
UK NA: CAB 79/78
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:22 pm

Jeez, you've proved it, Spicer is a deep thinker on genocide and has robust theories about the extermination of the Jews.

Hopefully you'll now appreciate the *songs of Charles Dickens gaff* is an esoteric joke about his critics: MUPPETS
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:10 am

No, I find you a boring cant.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:32 am

What a useless, lonely and pathetic hill to decide to die on ...
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:37 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What a useless, lonely and pathetic hill to decide to die on ...


Did anyone noticed that in his signature Funny Bunny of whatever pushes the 'Haavara agreement' myth which is used for the reknown equation 'Zionism = Nazism' Holocaust inversion narrative, a myth created by none other than Adolf Eichmann himself in the 50s with the help of notorious neonazis like the pro-Nazi Dutch journalist Wilhelmus Antonius Sassen (and which is used also by today's extreme 'antizionists' from the far-left, but that's another story)

Details on a wider range of this issue:
http://www.thetower.org/article/how-hol ... worldview/

Probably, BROI read this junk:

- Mark Weber - Zionism and the Third Reich, The Journal of Historical Review, July-August 1993 (Vol. 13, No. 4), pages 29-37
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html
This remarkable Zionist proposal 'for the solution of the Jewish question in Europe and the active participation of the NMO [Lehi] in the war on the side of Germany' is worth quoting at some length:


But he didn't understand a lot, I guess:

- Yf'aat Weiss - The Transfer Agreement and the Boycott Movement A Jewish Dilemma on the Eve of the Holocaust [Yad Vashem Shoah Resource Center 1998] - Microsoft Word - 3231.pdf
http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 203231.pdf

You probably heard about the mess in British Labour Party about Ken Livingstone's and Moshe Machover's use of this myth, especially recently when Machover used the Heydrich article about «friendly mention of Zionism».

- Were antisemitic leaflets handed out at Labour Party Conference? | Labour Vision
http://labourvision.org.uk/labour-visio ... onference/

- Paul Bogdanor, Ken Livingstone’s claims are an insult to the truth, Jewish Chronicle, 31/03/2017
https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/k ... h-1.435425

- Ken Livingstone muddies history to support claims on Hitler and Zionism
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw


- My opinion on Haavara agreement was this:
https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 76#p100276
Last edited by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion on Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:45 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:What a useless, lonely and pathetic hill to decide to die on ...


Did anyone noticed that in his signature Funny Bunny of whatever . . .

I noticed it. {!#%@} stupid signature, far dumber than his using "gaff" for "gaffe."
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:25 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Did anyone noticed that in his signature Funny Bunny of whatever pushes the 'Haavara agreement' myth which is used for the reknown equation 'Zionism = Nazism' Holocaust inversion narrative, a myth created by none other than Adolf Eichmann himself in the 50s with the help of notorious neonazis like the pro-Nazi Dutch journalist Wilhelmus Antonius Sassen (and which is used also by today's extreme 'antizionists' from the far-left, but that's another story)


As Himmler says he first collaborated with US Jewish groups in 1936-1940, he clearly wasn't referring to the original August 1933 Haavara Agreement, which didn't involve any US Jewish groups and even the leaders of Zionism in the US initially opposed.

Himmler might be referring to the six, at least, similar agreements subsequently made, including the creation of The Central Agency for Jewish Emigration in Vienna—the prototype for similar agencies in other cities, e.g. Amsterdam and Prague.

Himmler's must have been referring to the scheme run by American Express which the Nazis and Zionists created to steal money sent by US Jews to their loved-ones in Germany: "Haavara marks"

It was now up to Haavara to acquire the foreign currency needed to bring Jews to safety. Working with the Reich Economics Ministry and the international consortium of creditor banks known as the Standstill Committee, which governed various aspects of Germany's foreign exchange, yet another transfer company was formed [c. May 1936 apparently]. This one was called the International Trade and Investment Agency Ltd., assigned the acronym INTRIA. INTRIA was permitted to intercept all relief donations intended for German Jews and divert them to Palestine. A special "relief mark" was introduced by the Reich and sold at banks around the world. By purchasing these relief marks, people in America or France could send charity dollars to their destitute loved ones still in Germany. An American donor, for example, would purchase $100 in relief marks from the American Express office in New York. American Express would credit the INTRIA account in London. INTRIA, however, would not send the money to the intended recipient in Germany. Instead, the money would be credited to a Zionist bureau in Palestine. INTRIA would then send a notice to Haavara's Berlin office, instructing it to pay the German recipient the equivalent of $100 in reichmarks from the blocked pool of Jewish deposits that had still not been transferred. In this way 71,000 donations from around the world, totaling almost $900,000, were diverted to Palestine and infused into the effort to build the Jewish home. Once in Palestine, the money was rewoven into various financial instruments and provided to desperate emigrants, enabling them to enter Palestine.

- Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement, pp.376-377


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http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/15d983f39df ... 753534.jpg
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:26 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Did anyone noticed that in his signature Funny Bunny of whatever . . .

I noticed it. {!#%@} stupid signature, far dumber than his using "gaff" for "gaffe."

If you're aware of any historian who's featured it please let me know. Steven Koblik quoted it in Om vi teg, skulle stenarna ropa [p.260], but I can't find it in the English translation, The Stones Cry Out, using Google Books.
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:52 am

No.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:21 am

I don't know how others feel but, frankly, I’m reeling from the news that Himmler tried to get Jews out of Germany.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:48 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I don't know how others feel but, frankly, I’m reeling from the news that Himmler tried to get Jews out of Germany.


Are you sure on this? Because I've heard he and Heydrich and Hitler himself were working for the emancipation of the Jews and really helped them to get a home in Palestine. Eichmann also said that, David Duke said it, some Arabs chauvinists with the help of KGB said it, even some crazy antisemites far-leftists said it. Is it possible all these people to get it wrong? It must be true, no matter if all of them are Jew-haters, this is irrelevant.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:43 pm

All I know, is that Himmler wasn't so awful, like he tried getting across in '45, he really tried to work collaboratively and for humane purposes, out of humane sentiments - if only that darned war hadn't gotten in the way. You have to see his life's work as having consistency - he surely intervened with modern clinical treatments in the camps like in Bergen-Belsen, too, when eastern types brought epidemics to them - then there were the two trains to Switzerland - just so, from '36-'40 his efforts had led to beneficial results for the Jews.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:26 pm

You know, when you think about, Himmler was a true humanitarian. He realized what a nutso Hitler was back in 1936 so he frantically tried to get the Jews out of harms way.

The Einsatzgruppen? They were supposed to protect the Jews from crazed Wehrmacht personnel but Heydrich misunderstood his orders. Himmler told him “save the Jews” and Heydrich thought he said “shoot the Jews.”

The Extermination Camps? Same kinda thing, people misunderstood their orders. Himmler sent a telegram telling them to “give the Jews some new clothes and help them out” and the operator accidentally sent “gas the Jews and take their clothes.”

Himmler is a sadly misunderstood individual.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:18 am

Sean Spicer regrets having made himself an object of ridicule unable to defend himself: "Spicer: I Regret Embarrassing ‘Myself, My Family, Friends’ As Press Secretary"
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:39 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Sean Spicer regrets having made himself an object of ridicule unable to defend himself: "Spicer: I Regret Embarrassing ‘Myself, My Family, Friends’ As Press Secretary"


Fat, stupid and ignorant is no way to go through life.

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:04 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Sean Spicer regrets having made himself an object of ridicule unable to defend himself: "Spicer: I Regret Embarrassing ‘Myself, My Family, Friends’ As Press Secretary"


Fat, stupid and ignorant is no way to go through life.


Well, to be fair, it's a job that tends to attract incredible mediocrities....

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:32 am


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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:51 pm

. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Gord » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:34 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Sean Spicer regrets having made himself an object of ridicule unable to defend himself: "Spicer: I Regret Embarrassing ‘Myself, My Family, Friends’ As Press Secretary"

Fat, stupid and ignorant is no way to go through life.

Must you rag on everything I do? :P
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Re: Sean Spicer screws up, deniers go wild!!!!!

Postby Gord » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:where's Sean when they really need him?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/politics ... index.html

Donald Trump lied about his State of the Union ratings. Whyyyyyyyy?

^ actual title
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