The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks for catching that whilst I looked at the photos! They missed both by a zillion. I will email WaPo - the numbers I have are IIRC ‘42 - ca 70,00 and ‘44 - ca 7,100 to Chelmno - I have to look up the Auschwitz number for ‘44.



USHMM lists 60,000 for August 1944:

https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1942-1945/liquidation-of-the-lodz-ghetto

65,000-67,000:
https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/lodz/statistics.htm

HEART has the same number:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/Lodz/lodzghetto.html

60,000:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html#1944

In “Chelmno and the Holocaust” the number given is 54,500 and footnote is from “Chronicle.”

So, probably around 60,000. I don’t have “Chronicle” at home, it’s at work so I can’t confirm that number.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:11 pm

I generally go with lower numbers.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:26 pm

Here's what's in my notes:

Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1942 - 70,675
Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1944 - 7,186
Lodz Jews to Auschwitz 1944 - 70,067 est

-----------------------------------------------------
sources:
1942: Montague
1944 Chelmno: Montague
1944 Auschwitz: Strzelecki, Yad Vashem, JewishGen
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Here's what's in my notes:

Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1942 - 70,675
Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1944 - 7,186
Lodz Jews to Auschwitz 1944 - 70,067 est

-----------------------------------------------------
sources:
1942: Montague
1944 Chelmno: Montague
1944 Auschwitz: Strzelecki, Yad Vashem, JewishGen


Oops, you edited while I hunted.
:D

I saw the 70,067 but I think that’s total for the year, I focused on August of 1944 only. I think the 7,186 is a solid number for Chelmno.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:35 pm

That number is 9 August through 31 August 1944.

(True dat: I figured everyone was out having egg nog or glögg or otherwise :))
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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:(True dat: I figured everyone was out having egg nog or glögg or otherwise :))


Yeah, if I tried glogg it would plant me solidly on my ass and I would sleep for about two days. I have to go back to work tomorrow.

As for egg nog, I love the stuff but it doesn’t fit into my diet..... :D
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Hans » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Here's what's in my notes:

Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1942 - 70,675
Lodz Jews to Chelmno 1944 - 7,186
Lodz Jews to Auschwitz 1944 - 70,067 est

-----------------------------------------------------
sources:
1942: Montague
1944 Chelmno: Montague
1944 Auschwitz: Strzelecki, Yad Vashem, JewishGen

For 1942, I posted the primary sources in Table 1 here.



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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:32 am

Lol was just going to post this link!! Thanks Hans
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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:36 pm

‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:02 am

Bumping this for my Twitter friends.....
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:56 am

Can’t remember if I posted this video here but too tired to look:
https://youtu.be/nxM9z7KaY3Y
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:50 pm

‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:51 pm

I was reminded of it reading Rees book on the Holocaust.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Hans » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:24 am

The smell of the police members was likely a desinfection agent applied on those who came close to the victims and their belongings. This has been clarified by the local forester Heinrich May, who also thought at first it was the "smell of corpses".


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