The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Here is a link to HC detailing more information reagarding purchases for the furnaces and other information:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-jews-buried-in-little-wood-near.html?m=1

Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:04 pm


Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Next posting on the camp Pabianice set up for searching and sorting the luggage of the Jews murdered in Chelmno:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2017/10/sonderkommando-kulmhof-in-german.html

Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:17 pm

Surely Holocaust deniers can explain the logistic absurdity to sent Jews with some hand luggage from Lodz to Chelmno just to waste gasoline and Diesel driven trucks to transport their luggage back to and through Lodz again. Or why the luggage could not be sorted in the Ghetto but only at a new site outside Lodz, and why the Ghetto inhibitants should not be able to identify the items sent back. Or why the people to be "resettled" had to give away their hand luggage to begin with.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17389
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:26 pm

The famous German propensity for order and efficiency?

Thanks Hans I look forward to reading the latest!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
NathanC
Regular Poster
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:19 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby NathanC » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Hans wrote:Surely Holocaust deniers can explain the logistic absurdity to sent Jews with some hand luggage from Lodz to Chelmno just to waste gasoline and Diesel driven trucks to transport their luggage back to and through Lodz again. Or why the luggage could not be sorted in the Ghetto but only at a new site outside Lodz, and why the Ghetto inhibitants should not be able to identify the items sent back. Or why the people to be "resettled" had to give away their hand luggage to begin with.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... count=5700

Dumbass (EtienneSC) wrote:...the vagaries of war and practicalities of railway transport....


Sorry. Just had to invoke their stupidity. It should be clear exactly what's "vague" here. ;)

User avatar
NathanC
Regular Poster
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:19 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby NathanC » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:06 pm

In all seriousness though, Hans, your article is great as usual. Being from a business background, I always find it interesting to look at the Holocaust from an "accounting" perspective, and how the SS often funded the killing with the property they stole from Jews.

Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:46 pm

NathanC wrote:In all seriousness though, Hans, your article is great as usual. Being from a business background, I always find it interesting to look at the Holocaust from an "accounting" perspective, and how the SS often funded the killing with the property they stole from Jews.


Then some good news, the next part will be just on the funding and revenue of the extermination of the Warthegau Jews, this is a draft of the summary table. So the operation of the extermination camp since March 1942 did cost roughly 1 Million RM and flushed - with its searching and sorting site in Pabianice - some 3.8 Million RM cash into the pocket. The revenue of the extermination and exploitation of the Jews was paid on a black bank account of Arthur Greiser (about 11 Million RM until the end of 1944).

table1.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17389
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:44 pm

In THOTTC, Butz declared blithely that “The evidence for exterminations at Belzec, Chelmno, Lublin, Sobibor, and Treblinka is fairly close to zero.” Oh my.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 am

This thread seems to grow without my help.
:lol:

I plan to revisit once I get to the Lodz Ghetto Chronicle.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17389
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:06 am

It is difficult to express how great Hans' work on Chelmno and the Warthegau is. Amazing stuff, very informative.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:38 am

Yes, there is so much documentation out there, I'm glad Hans and others ferret this stuff out.

Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:09 am

Many docs - though not all, I made some new finds myself - have been cited already in Klein, Die Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 1940 - 1944 and Alberti, Die Verfolgung und Vernichtung der Juden im Reichsgau Warthegau, but since the bulk of the documentation has not been used by Montague and Krakowski, it was not easily available to English speaking readers. So the series should help to close this gap.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17389
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:10 am

>> since the bulk of the documentation has not been used by Montague and Krakowski,

Indeed. I have read what I can find in English on Chelmno and your series is making me familiar with new documents, new to me anyway :) Great work, Hans.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

Hans
Poster
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Hans » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:39 pm


User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:51 pm


User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:53 pm

I changed the name of this to include things about the Lodz Ghetto. I felt it was on topic, considering that Lodz is heavily associated with Chelmno.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:19 pm

A grim anniversary, on this day in 1941 the first killings took place in the extermination camp at Chelmno.

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: The Chelmno/Gas Van Thread/Lodz Ghetto

Postby Denying-History » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:25 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:A grim anniversary, on this day in 1941 the first killings took place in the extermination camp at Chelmno.

Give it a few more days, then we will hit the anniversary of the order from 1941.
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests