Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:48 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:The Poles wanted to send all of their Jews there but a study found that Madagascar was simply too inhospitable for that. This probably deserves its own thread if we want to discuss this in some detail. Snyder wrote about this in Black Earth and I know I've come across this in a few other places.

the French connection

background from Gerlach
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Balsamo
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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Balsamo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:The Poles wanted to send all of their Jews there but a study found that Madagascar was simply too inhospitable for that. This probably deserves its own thread if we want to discuss this in some detail. Snyder wrote about this in Black Earth and I know I've come across this in a few other places.

the French connection

background from Gerlach


Thank you for reminding me...
As a coincidence, a cousin of mine just settled in Madagascar and we talked about its history.

Earlier you wrote:
Gerlach (p 35) has Lagarde first proposing Madagascar in the late 19th century as a dumping place for European Jews (hint: Lagarde was not Polish).


That seems strange as Lagarde died in 1891 when Madagascar was still an independant kingdom although it had been given to France at the Conference of Berlin. I did not know that, but it was quite developed compared to other African nations.
I was told that the kingdom - first recognized by Great Britain early in the XIX century was often ruled by a Queen who had European lovers who brought in technologies and a form of modernity. For example, the kingdom had its own metallurgy as well as a chemical industry. Its Army was well equipped.

Anyway, it proved to be a hard pill to swallow for the French Army which suffered great losses. The last Queen surrendered in 1895, but it was followed by a 10 year "civil" war.
So it can be considered that it became a plain French colony by 1905.
But it lacked European settlers, hence, i guess, the idea to sent Jews there. And the reason why France was so open to this idea. More European settlers would have helped stabilizing the colony-

Actually, the French colony was highly unstable as the Malgash people were reluctant to submit. There had been many revolts - in the 1920's - severely repressed by the French Army. The last one in 1947 made at least ten thousands victims (some say up to 80.000 but this number seems exaggerated)

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:48 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:The Poles wanted to send all of their Jews there but a study found that Madagascar was simply too inhospitable for that. This probably deserves its own thread if we want to discuss this in some detail. Snyder wrote about this in Black Earth and I know I've come across this in a few other places.

the French connection

background from Gerlach


Thank you for reminding me...
As a coincidence, a cousin of mine just settled in Madagascar and we talked about its history.

Earlier you wrote:
Gerlach (p 35) has Lagarde first proposing Madagascar in the late 19th century as a dumping place for European Jews (hint: Lagarde was not Polish).


That seems strange as Lagarde died in 1891 when Madagascar was still an independant kingdom although it had been given to France at the Conference of Berlin. I did not know that, but it was quite developed compared to other African nations.
I was told that the kingdom - first recognized by Great Britain early in the XIX century was often ruled by a Queen who had European lovers who brought in technologies and a form of modernity. For example, the kingdom had its own metallurgy as well as a chemical industry. Its Army was well equipped.

Anyway, it proved to be a hard pill to swallow for the French Army which suffered great losses. The last Queen surrendered in 1895, but it was followed by a 10 year "civil" war.
So it can be considered that it became a plain French colony by 1905.
But it lacked European settlers, hence, i guess, the idea to sent Jews there. And the reason why France was so open to this idea. More European settlers would have helped stabilizing the colony-

Actually, the French colony was highly unstable as the Malgash people were reluctant to submit. There had been many revolts - in the 1920's - severely repressed by the French Army. The last one in 1947 made at least ten thousands victims (some say up to 80.000 but this number seems exaggerated)



Thanks, I did not know the additional history of Madagascar. With the above info it's an even more hostile place than just the weather.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BornAgainDisciple » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:31 pm

But Dreamworks made Madagascar seem so nice...

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Balsamo
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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Balsamo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:55 pm

Well, Actually the weather is great and the country beautiful, at least that is what my cousin says.
Just to get you an idea of what this kingdom was before it became a colony:

Here is a picture of the Royal Palace:

Well...Seems that i have a problem posting images, sadly
https://www.google.com/search?q=palais+royal+de+madagascar&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF0_Wz_PzVAhXI7iYKHeKhDNsQ_AUICigB&biw=1517&bih=708

And here is one of the Queens of the XIX century.
Image

What i mean is that it was nothing like Belgian Congo, but more like Zanzibar.

Here is the last Queen:
Image

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:52 pm

Balsamo wrote:Well, Actually the weather is great and the country beautiful, at least that is what my cousin says.


I'm sure it's OK now with someone who is well-nourished and fully vaccinated. But back in the 1930's not so much for impoverished Polish Jews. This is what the commission sent to check on the possibility in 1937:

[Polish commission in 1937 investigating Madagascar - extreme tropical diseases]

Ten years later, in 1937, a new Polish commission was sent to Madagascar to assess if Jews could be forced to settle there. Leon Alter, the director of *HICEM in Warsaw, and Salmon Dyk, an agricultural engineer from Tel Aviv, took part in the mission. The estimates of the commission's leader, Major M. Lepecki, and those of Alter differed widely, but it was obvious that the available area, with bearable climatic conditions, was very restricted and the danger of endemic tropical diseases was considered extreme. This point was specially stressed by the French governor-general of the island, Marcel Olivier, who wrote and spoke publicly against the proposal.


http://www.hist-chron.com/judentum-aktenlage/hol/EncJud_Madagascar-plans-1885-1927-1937-1940-ENGL.html

I suspect that Olivier didn't want to care for refugees, especially backwards Ostjuden from Poland but the point is well made. That's a source I found on it, the Encyclopedia Judaica says the same, Rees mentioned it in his book on Auschwitz (in discussing the Nazi Madagascar Plan) and Timothy Snyder mentioned the conditions in "Black Earth."

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:40 pm

New from the newspaper guy!!!!


https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/09/08/mass-electrocution-of-jews-at-belzec/comment-page-1/#comment-325

We turn now to the electrocution of the Jews at Belzec......something that the wire-pullers never mention anymore.


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