Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:59 pm

Oozy's recent post regarding the "Conveyor Belts of Death" reminded me of the weird denier obsession over newspaper articles. Deniers pick out the oddest, most outrageous newspaper articles written during and after the war as some type of representation of "Black Propaganda" designed to shift attitudes against Germans and build the infamous "myth."


The reporter in question visited Auschwitz on February 2nd, 1945, about a week after liberation. This is the article:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Pravda020245.html

It's easy to understand how and why there are a mixture of true, false and misunderstood items in this article. There simply was not time to fully investigate and understand what happened. "Samuel Cowell" draws attention to the fact that the later official report carried little of what the article did...but there is a big difference over what a reporter sees and what an investigation finds.

This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

The author only uses newspaper articles to make his points. He makes sure to use some of the most outlandish and outdated articles he can find while ignoring 70 plus years of research on the subject. I've tried to steer him towards books and websites...I've even encouraged him to come here to no avail...but he persists in using outlandish tales of Holocausts throughout the ages and tales of electricity, steam and fertilizer.

Newspaper articles are only a small part of the research available on this subject or any historical subject. Reporters have the same problem that eyewitnesses or victims do, mainly that they only see what they are permitted to see or what they see by accident. A single visit in February 1945 cannot tell us what Auschwitz was, it can only tell us what that reporter saw on that day.

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:18 pm

Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.


Hey, we have the same guy!!!

:lol:

I comment on occasion. He's not so bad really, but, honestly, after hermie and the flying Rizoli brothers (not to mention the screeching harridan Diane) anyone is an improvement.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:38 pm

Oh, just in case, here is Oozy's thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27938

Xcalibur
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Xcalibur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:53 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.


Since when don't news organs use "file photos"?

Retard. And conniving liar.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19748
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:56 pm

FAKE NEWS are only Good News if it tells us what we want to hear...




(Yeah, I know. Those weren't really fake news reports.)
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:34 pm

Some recent additions by the newspaper guy:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

User avatar
BRoI
Poster
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:57 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/


Image

Damn that's a good one!

Colonel Mantout was involved in the interrogations of Kurt Gerstein, during which he claimed the nazis had gassed 20 or even 25 million, and soon after, supposedly, topped himself. Mantout was using *Gerstein's figures* in that press conference the article's about.

1.2m killed at Auschwitz in just one day

"a very smooth Jewish lawyer ... a man who has moved in influential circles."
- Description of Mantout in a British Security Service report dated May 27, 1942

Lieutenant-Colonel Gilbert Mantout of the French Air Force and the French War Crimes Investigation Office spoke with Reuters news agency on August 30, 1945, its subsequent report stated that Mantout "had collected evidence showing that on one day in April 1944, 1,200,000 people were liquidated in the various camps of Auschwitz", "[a]t least 26,000,000 person were methodically exterminated" in German concentration camps, and "that the figure of 26,000,000 was if anything, well below the actual total of people put to death." "Human bones from the camps were used for raw material for the manufacture of chemical fertilisers, while the fats were turned into soap." The article quoted Mantout as saying: "These are facts about which there is no longer any possibility of doubt." [1]

Gilbert Mantout was born in French Algeria during 1907 and the country remained his home until the Second World War. He was a lawyer specialising in maritime insurance cases, but also bred race horses, his horse "Jemmapes" won the Grand Prix de Nice in 1938. He performed his National Service for France in Algeria during 1929/30, and in 1938, at the time of the Munich Crisis, he was again called-up by France, this time opting to join the Air Force for which he subsequently travelled to Bordeaux to train as a pilot. In December 1939 his regiment was dispatched for further training to Rabat in the French protectorate of Morocco, where he was promoted to Lieutenant around May 1940. Despite the Armistice between Germany and France being signed in June 1940, Mantout remained in North Africa until March 1942 when he escaped into British Gibraltar. This cast some suspicion over Mantout's activities during the period, but the British Security Service could find no fault in him, believing his story that prior to his successful escape, twelve previous attempts had all failed. The British were in fact keen to employ Mantout as an agent, although it appears that this never happened.[2] From what little information I've been able to discover about his activities during July 1942-1944, he was part the Free French Forces and supposedly a constant shadow of De Gaulle.

Mantout's 26,000,000 figure given to Reuters is reminiscent of the truly enormous figures (20 or 25 million killed at Belzec and Treblinka alone) supposedly thrown about by Kurt Gerstein in his various confessions to the French in April and May of 1945. Which is surely no coincide, as Mantout was the head of the organisation (Organe de Recherche des Criminals de Guerre: ORCG) which interrogated Gerstein, and he was even present during his interrogations, as he admitted decades later to French author Pierre Joffroy:

Sturmführer Kurt Gerstein, who had been arrested—one might say, at his own request—by the ORCG in Germany, was sent by the Constance section to our Paris headquarters, where he was interrogated before being handed over to the military courts. My attention was drawn to this rather special case, and I remember being present on two occasions when he was questioned. My impression of the man was that he was a mystic in a state of traumatic shock, and desperate because no one, neither the Germans nor the French, would take him seriously. As it were, a discredited Joan of Arc deprived of her funeral pyre.
- Gilbert Mantout [3]


French researcher Henri Roques in his study of Gerstein's confessions quotes a June 6, 1945 letter written by Mantout which accompanied a transcript of an interrogation of Gerstein dated June 6, 1945 (which Roques denotes as document: "T Va") in which Gerstein states: "I estimate the number of defenseless human beings murdered by Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler at about 20 million." [4]

REPUBLIC OF FRANCE
Liberty • Equality • Fraternity
Presidency of the French Government
Paris, 6 June 1945
General Directorate of Studies and Research, (references illegible), Head of the Bureau for the Investigation of War Criminals to Monsieur le Professor Gros, CARLTON GARDENS 4, LONDON
I have the honor to send you herewith the copy of the interrogation by my office of the person concerned: GERSTEIN OF TUBINGEN.
This document will not fail, I believe, to interest you.
In any event, I leave it in your care to decide whether it should be sent to the WAR CRIMES COMMISSION.
I am satisfied with the first results obtained by the French teams for investigation of war criminals who are working in Germany, and I inform you that my services are at the present time in possession of 41,000 record cards on war criminals.
G.MANTOUT [5]


1. "26,000,000 were Liquidated," The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror (Bristol, U.K.), Friday, August 31, 1945, p. 1.
2. Report and summaries on Gilbert Mantout all dated 1942, in UK National Archives: HS 9-985-6.
3. Pierre Joffroy; Norman Denny (translator), A Spy for God: The Ordeal of Kurt Gerstein, London: Collins, 1971, p. 251.
4. Henri Roques, The Confessions of Kurt Gerstein, Los Angeles, CA: Institute of Historical Review, 1989, p. 64.
5. Ibid., p. 129.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

Xcalibur
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Xcalibur » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:02 am

So what.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:12 am

BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/


Image

Damn that's a good one!

Colonel Mantout was involved in the interrogations of Kurt Gerstein, during which he claimed the nazis had gassed 20 or even 25 million, and soon after, supposedly, topped himself. Mantout was using *Gerstein's figures* in that press conference the article's about.

1.2m killed at Auschwitz in just one day

"a very smooth Jewish lawyer ... a man who has moved in influential circles."
- Description of Mantout in a British Security Service report dated May 27, 1942

Lieutenant-Colonel Gilbert Mantout of the French Air Force and the French War Crimes Investigation Office spoke with Reuters news agency on August 30, 1945, its subsequent report stated that Mantout "had collected evidence showing that on one day in April 1944, 1,200,000 people were liquidated in the various camps of Auschwitz", "[a]t least 26,000,000 person were methodically exterminated" in German concentration camps, and "that the figure of 26,000,000 was if anything, well below the actual total of people put to death." "Human bones from the camps were used for raw material for the manufacture of chemical fertilisers, while the fats were turned into soap." The article quoted Mantout as saying: "These are facts about which there is no longer any possibility of doubt." [1]

Gilbert Mantout was born in French Algeria during 1907 and the country remained his home until the Second World War. He was a lawyer specialising in maritime insurance cases, but also bred race horses, his horse "Jemmapes" won the Grand Prix de Nice in 1938. He performed his National Service for France in Algeria during 1929/30, and in 1938, at the time of the Munich Crisis, he was again called-up by France, this time opting to join the Air Force for which he subsequently travelled to Bordeaux to train as a pilot. In December 1939 his regiment was dispatched for further training to Rabat in the French protectorate of Morocco, where he was promoted to Lieutenant around May 1940. Despite the Armistice between Germany and France being signed in June 1940, Mantout remained in North Africa until March 1942 when he escaped into British Gibraltar. This cast some suspicion over Mantout's activities during the period, but the British Security Service could find no fault in him, believing his story that prior to his successful escape, twelve previous attempts had all failed. The British were in fact keen to employ Mantout as an agent, although it appears that this never happened.[2] From what little information I've been able to discover about his activities during July 1942-1944, he was part the Free French Forces and supposedly a constant shadow of De Gaulle.

Mantout's 26,000,000 figure given to Reuters is reminiscent of the truly enormous figures (20 or 25 million killed at Belzec and Treblinka alone) supposedly thrown about by Kurt Gerstein in his various confessions to the French in April and May of 1945. Which is surely no coincide, as Mantout was the head of the organisation (Organe de Recherche des Criminals de Guerre: ORCG) which interrogated Gerstein, and he was even present during his interrogations, as he admitted decades later to French author Pierre Joffroy:

Sturmführer Kurt Gerstein, who had been arrested—one might say, at his own request—by the ORCG in Germany, was sent by the Constance section to our Paris headquarters, where he was interrogated before being handed over to the military courts. My attention was drawn to this rather special case, and I remember being present on two occasions when he was questioned. My impression of the man was that he was a mystic in a state of traumatic shock, and desperate because no one, neither the Germans nor the French, would take him seriously. As it were, a discredited Joan of Arc deprived of her funeral pyre.
- Gilbert Mantout [3]


French researcher Henri Roques in his study of Gerstein's confessions quotes a June 6, 1945 letter written by Mantout which accompanied a transcript of an interrogation of Gerstein dated June 6, 1945 (which Roques denotes as document: "T Va") in which Gerstein states: "I estimate the number of defenseless human beings murdered by Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler at about 20 million." [4]

REPUBLIC OF FRANCE
Liberty • Equality • Fraternity
Presidency of the French Government
Paris, 6 June 1945
General Directorate of Studies and Research, (references illegible), Head of the Bureau for the Investigation of War Criminals to Monsieur le Professor Gros, CARLTON GARDENS 4, LONDON
I have the honor to send you herewith the copy of the interrogation by my office of the person concerned: GERSTEIN OF TUBINGEN.
This document will not fail, I believe, to interest you.
In any event, I leave it in your care to decide whether it should be sent to the WAR CRIMES COMMISSION.
I am satisfied with the first results obtained by the French teams for investigation of war criminals who are working in Germany, and I inform you that my services are at the present time in possession of 41,000 record cards on war criminals.
G.MANTOUT [5]


1. "26,000,000 were Liquidated," The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror (Bristol, U.K.), Friday, August 31, 1945, p. 1.
2. Report and summaries on Gilbert Mantout all dated 1942, in UK National Archives: HS 9-985-6.
3. Pierre Joffroy; Norman Denny (translator), A Spy for God: The Ordeal of Kurt Gerstein, London: Collins, 1971, p. 251.
4. Henri Roques, The Confessions of Kurt Gerstein, Los Angeles, CA: Institute of Historical Review, 1989, p. 64.
5. Ibid., p. 129.


I'll bounce your reply back to the newspaper guy, Rabbit. He'll be so pleased.

User avatar
BRoI
Poster
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:20 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oozy's recent post regarding the "Conveyor Belts of Death" reminded me of the weird denier obsession over newspaper articles. Deniers pick out the oddest, most outrageous newspaper articles written during and after the war as some type of representation of "Black Propaganda" designed to shift attitudes against Germans and build the infamous "myth."


The reporter in question visited Auschwitz on February 2nd, 1945, about a week after liberation. This is the article:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Pravda020245.html

It's easy to understand how and why there are a mixture of true, false and misunderstood items in this article. There simply was not time to fully investigate and understand what happened. "Samuel Cowell" draws attention to the fact that the later official report carried little of what the article did...but there is a big difference over what a reporter sees and what an investigation finds.


Here is that newspaper article being displayed in Block 13 in Auschwitz I as part of the exhibition "Extermination of European Roma" [my photo, 19.01.12]:

Image

I don't think anyone has ever been so on topic in a forum post!
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:32 am

The newspaper fellow enjoys posting many a lurid newspaper story from yore, Rabbit. I think if you look you'll find the one about the spanking machine.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:34 am

Sorry, whipping machine.
https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

User avatar
BRoI
Poster
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:37 am

Ah, Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier's IMT testimony on 28 January 1946.

"One of the most usual punishments was 50 blows with a stick on the loins. They were administered with a machine which I saw, a swinging apparatus manipulated by an SS."

This communist politician was one of the speakers at a 6 December 1945 meeting in Paris to protest against the lack of death sentences handed down at the Lueneburg-Belsen trial [FO 371/57560].

I've pointed out to Balsamo before; Ilse Forster got off with just a 10 years sentence for having worked at Belsen for 2 months as a kitchen supervisor.

The the only *evidence* presented against Foerster was the testimony of Sophia Litwinska [affidavit and witnesses appearance], and Regina Bialek and Hilda Lippman [affidavits only].

Both Litwinska and Bialek claimed to have been carried out of a gas chamber in the middle of a gassing!

Yet former the former SK doctor Charles Bendel told the court:

Have you ever heard in Auschwitz Concentration Camp of anybody being released from the gas chamber?

During the time I was there I have never heard about it; it was impossible.


This was Lippman's affidavit testimony against Foerest:

At Belsen I was employed as a cook and cleaner in Kitchen No. 1 in Camp 1. The SS woman in charge was Ilse Förster. She delighted in catching both men and women internees attempting to steal vegetables from outside the kitchen. Two or three times in the course of the day she would take the culprits into a small office adjoining the kitchen and beat them with a rubber stick and kick them. She often drew blood. I saw her on one occasion beat a sick man so badly that he had to be carried away afterwards.


Vaillant-Couturier wanted Foerest sentenced to death for that. It wasn't even true according to Foerster, and Lippman wasn't present at the trial to be cross-examined by Foerster's counsel.

I'm sure the testimony Vaillant-Couturier gave at the IMT was in no way embellished, and there really was a spanking machine at Birkenau. :roll:
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:36 pm

I actually prefer the one where Jews were given just enough gas to stagger to their graves and bury themselves.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17323
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm

My favorite is "life saving" camps.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:14 pm

Why would a death camp have a brothel?
Or a sewage treatment plant?

Those are also high on the list.

Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?

User avatar
BRoI
Poster
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:06 pm

BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1726
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Denying-History » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:25 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.


Whew, that's a breath of fresh air.

Spoiler:
Personally, it's rather shocking that deniers are so focused on this. Some of their literature states the 4 million figure was not just Jews.
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 16, 2017 2:38 am

Out of boredom (see, this is what happens when all of our deniers leave us) I checked back in with newspaper boy today.

For those who are interested:
https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/02/

I posted a few things, just to stir him up.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:21 pm

Well, I'll give newspaper guy some credit, he found a mention of four million Jews murdered at Auschwitz:


https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

Sergey_Romanov
Poster
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:15 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:12 pm

There were plenty of such claims. It's just not all claims are equal.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:There were plenty of such claims. It's just not all claims are equal.



I agree. It's why I find this obsession with newspaper articles so amusing.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:17 pm


User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17323
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:26 pm

so true, thank the guy, I never realized before the Kabbalistic core of atheistic communism - Ehrenburg was such a devotee of the occult, not to mention highly observant, fascinated by mysticism, and intrigued by numerology, little known facts but very true
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:25 am

Sadly, I can't get newspaper guy to come here.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:32 pm


User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Our newest article from our newspaper guy:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/belsen-was-a-gas/comment-page-1/


The Dead Kennedys reply, great inspiration!

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Our newest article from our newspaper guy:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/belsen-was-a-gas/comment-page-1/


The Dead Kennedys reply, great inspiration!



I sorta enjoy newspaper guy. I've never seen anyone so devoted to that. I also enjoy messing with Larryzb, he kicked me off his blog and I thought I was being helpful.

:lol:

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Dear [Salutation][First Name]
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:13 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.


Whew, that's a breath of fresh air.

Spoiler:
Personally, it's rather shocking that deniers are so focused on this. Some of their literature states the 4 million figure was not just Jews.


Alas, a Hungarian fascist that I knew at Princeton 50 years ago, thought he could answer that. He fought in the 1956 uprising and wound up as a refugee in the United States, where he met some Jews from his home town whose relatives back in Hungary had told him were dead. (Not surprising; most likely they knew their relatives had been taken away and they hadn't heard from them. What would YOU assume?) That, he said, was proof that those 4 million just went to the West and were reported dead by their relatives. That was his answer when, in my presence, somebody asked him exactly Kitty Hart's question. (I'm sure you all remember the millions of Jewish refugees that the US took in during the late 1930s. You do remember, right? How thousands of boatloads of them arrived and were welcomed with open arms?)
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.


Whew, that's a breath of fresh air.

Spoiler:
Personally, it's rather shocking that deniers are so focused on this. Some of their literature states the 4 million figure was not just Jews.


Alas, a Hungarian fascist that I knew at Princeton 50 years ago, thought he could answer that. He fought in the 1956 uprising and wound up as a refugee in the United States, where he met some Jews from his home town whose relatives back in Hungary had told him were dead. (Not surprising; most likely they knew their relatives had been taken away and they hadn't heard from them. What would YOU assume?) That, he said, was proof that those 4 million just went to the West and were reported dead by their relatives. That was his answer when, in my presence, somebody asked him exactly Kitty Hart's question. (I'm sure you all remember the millions of Jewish refugees that the US took in during the late 1930s. You do remember, right? How thousands of boatloads of them arrived and were welcomed with open arms?)



One of the funniest denier books that I read was by a guy named Sanning. His hypothesis was that Polish Jews left by the truckload during the 1930's, to the clip of 100,000 per year by 1939.

Now, I found that hysterical because anyone with a brain in their heads (and any sort of basic understanding of how emigration quotas worked) knows that this is impossible. Communist Jews did flee Poland to escape persecution but their numbers were small. The 1930's were the height of paranoia in the USSR, Stalin essentially closed the borders to prevent spies from slipping through (after the Poles did this with some success during the 1920's). Most Polish Jews were devout and an atheistic society held no attraction for them.

So, Polish (and other) Jews did not flee Poland to the tune of 100,000 per year, there was no place for them to go. Small numbers of radicalized Jews did move about Europe during the 1930's, especially after the Spanish Civil War broke out, they went to take part in the fighting. There was also small numbers of Jews that found their way to France and other places to find work or to flee persecution but those numbers were small. It was very hard for German Jews to leave Germany and these were assimilated Jews, not Ostjuden.

So, I had a good laugh over The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry. I never saw anything resembling proof in the book, only conjecture.

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1726
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Denying-History » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:58 pm

I cannot remember exactly who it was, I believe Snyder claimed it was Hitler, but it's a message from Himmler that offered to send the Jews of Germany to the Soviet Union. Snyder misinterpreted it to mean all Jews of Europe, but it's still an example of such a case. I believe IHR claimed that some 2 million Jews were able to make it to the Soviet Union... regardless they would have fallen into Germany's hands after the invasion in 41.
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:41 pm

Denying-History wrote:I cannot remember exactly who it was, I believe Snyder claimed it was Hitler, but it's a message from Himmler that offered to send the Jews of Germany to the Soviet Union. Snyder misinterpreted it to mean all Jews of Europe, but it's still an example of such a case. I believe IHR claimed that some 2 million Jews were able to make it to the Soviet Union... regardless they would have fallen into Germany's hands after the invasion in 41.



I thought it was just the Polish Jews. I know there were various plans for those Polish Jews, the Madagascar Plan, the request made to the USSR, etc.

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Dear [Salutation][First Name]
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 pm

Denying-History wrote:I cannot remember exactly who it was, I believe Snyder claimed it was Hitler, but it's a message from Himmler that offered to send the Jews of Germany to the Soviet Union. Snyder misinterpreted it to mean all Jews of Europe, but it's still an example of such a case. I believe IHR claimed that some 2 million Jews were able to make it to the Soviet Union... regardless they would have fallen into Germany's hands after the invasion in 41.


A very small number of Jewish intellectuals did flee eastward to the USSR in the late 1930s. Among them were Cohn-Vossen (who collaborated with David Hilbert on a famous book on geometry) and Emmy Noether's brother Fritz. Ironically, Fritz was executed by the Russians as a German spy the day the Germans occupied Smolensk. Emmy, of course, came to the US and taught at Bryn Mawr, but died young as the result of complications from an operation.

But I doubt that any significant number of working-class Jews went east, except to the camps.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:11 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:I cannot remember exactly who it was, I believe Snyder claimed it was Hitler, but it's a message from Himmler that offered to send the Jews of Germany to the Soviet Union. Snyder misinterpreted it to mean all Jews of Europe, but it's still an example of such a case. I believe IHR claimed that some 2 million Jews were able to make it to the Soviet Union... regardless they would have fallen into Germany's hands after the invasion in 41.



I thought it was just the Polish Jews. I know there were various plans for those Polish Jews, the Madagascar Plan, the request made to the USSR, etc.



The funny thing is the Germans made a count of the Jews in the Korherr Report that Sanning, ahem, forgot about.

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1726
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Denying-History » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:47 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:I cannot remember exactly who it was, I believe Snyder claimed it was Hitler, but it's a message from Himmler that offered to send the Jews of Germany to the Soviet Union. Snyder misinterpreted it to mean all Jews of Europe, but it's still an example of such a case. I believe IHR claimed that some 2 million Jews were able to make it to the Soviet Union... regardless they would have fallen into Germany's hands after the invasion in 41.



I thought it was just the Polish Jews. I know there were various plans for those Polish Jews, the Madagascar Plan, the request made to the USSR, etc.


I believe Snyder thought this as well considering he claimed Stalin had rejected to take in "two million Jews". But the document says the following:

« Переселенческим управлением при СНК СССР получены два письма от Берлинского и Венского переселенческих бюро по вопросу организации переселения еврейского населения из Германии в СССР-конкретно в Биробиджан и Западную Украину. По соглашению Правительства СССР с Германией об эвакуации населения на территорию СССР эвакуируются лишь украинцы, белорусы, и русские. Считаем, что предложения указанных переселенческих бюро не могут быть приняты. » (Blood Lies, Furr, page 351-352)

Furr isn't always the best source - just as much as Snyder is the worst at making citations and bibliographys - but some times the quotes in his book do come to use.
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1571
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Balsamo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:22 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.


Whew, that's a breath of fresh air.

Spoiler:
Personally, it's rather shocking that deniers are so focused on this. Some of their literature states the 4 million figure was not just Jews.


Alas, a Hungarian fascist that I knew at Princeton 50 years ago, thought he could answer that. He fought in the 1956 uprising and wound up as a refugee in the United States, where he met some Jews from his home town whose relatives back in Hungary had told him were dead. (Not surprising; most likely they knew their relatives had been taken away and they hadn't heard from them. What would YOU assume?) That, he said, was proof that those 4 million just went to the West and were reported dead by their relatives. That was his answer when, in my presence, somebody asked him exactly Kitty Hart's question. (I'm sure you all remember the millions of Jewish refugees that the US took in during the late 1930s. You do remember, right? How thousands of boatloads of them arrived and were welcomed with open arms?)



One of the funniest denier books that I read was by a guy named Sanning. His hypothesis was that Polish Jews left by the truckload during the 1930's, to the clip of 100,000 per year by 1939.

Now, I found that hysterical because anyone with a brain in their heads (and any sort of basic understanding of how emigration quotas worked) knows that this is impossible. Communist Jews did flee Poland to escape persecution but their numbers were small. The 1930's were the height of paranoia in the USSR, Stalin essentially closed the borders to prevent spies from slipping through (after the Poles did this with some success during the 1920's). Most Polish Jews were devout and an atheistic society held no attraction for them.

So, Polish (and other) Jews did not flee Poland to the tune of 100,000 per year, there was no place for them to go. Small numbers of radicalized Jews did move about Europe during the 1930's, especially after the Spanish Civil War broke out, they went to take part in the fighting. There was also small numbers of Jews that found their way to France and other places to find work or to flee persecution but those numbers were small. It was very hard for German Jews to leave Germany and these were assimilated Jews, not Ostjuden.

So, I had a good laugh over The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry. I never saw anything resembling proof in the book, only conjecture.


Sanning is a very dishonest person.
Nevertheless, there were probably more emigration than generally assumed by many. Of course, nothing in the like of 100.000 Polish Jews a year. But the Polish government encouraged Jewish emigration the best it could. The first Madagascar Plan was their idea (not to even be compared with the Nazi ones, as it was talked to settle a few thousands Polish Jews there).

On the other hand, out of the 67.000 Jews present in Belgium in 1940, about two third were indeed Polish.
Several tens of thousands Polish Jews also made their way to Palestine in the 1930's.
It is also well known that France faced a massive wave of Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe, including Poland.

Not that this means it saved them, as they also constitutes the big part of the Jews being sent back to the East from countries like Belgium and France.

But as a matter of fact, Sanning is basically making things up when he speaks about a yearly 100.000 departures out of Poland.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6412
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 am

Balsamo wrote:
Sanning is a very dishonest person.



My point exactly.

Nevertheless, there were probably more emigration than generally assumed by many.


Probably, over the illegal sort, absolutely.

Of course, nothing in the like of 100.000 Polish Jews a year. But the Polish government encouraged Jewish emigration the best it could. The first Madagascar Plan was their idea (not to even be compared with the Nazi ones, as it was talked to settle a few thousands Polish Jews there).


The Poles wanted to send all of their Jews there but a study found that Madagascar was simply too inhospitable for that. This probably deserves its own thread if we want to discuss this in some detail. Snyder wrote about this in Black Earth and I know I've come across this in a few other places.

On the other hand, out of the 67.000 Jews present in Belgium in 1940, about two third were indeed Polish.
Several tens of thousands Polish Jews also made their way to Palestine in the 1930's.
It is also well known that France faced a massive wave of Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe, including Poland.


All true. Nothing like what Sanning was claiming.


Sorry, I accidentally deleted too much of your comment and don't feel like copying it. But your point is well taken, any temporary reprieve these Eastern Jews had basically evaporated once the Germans conquered Western Europe.

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:20 am

Sanning and Heink's favorite, Kulischer, been savaged for years...


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests