Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Jeffk 1970
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Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:59 pm

Oozy's recent post regarding the "Conveyor Belts of Death" reminded me of the weird denier obsession over newspaper articles. Deniers pick out the oddest, most outrageous newspaper articles written during and after the war as some type of representation of "Black Propaganda" designed to shift attitudes against Germans and build the infamous "myth."


The reporter in question visited Auschwitz on February 2nd, 1945, about a week after liberation. This is the article:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Pravda020245.html

It's easy to understand how and why there are a mixture of true, false and misunderstood items in this article. There simply was not time to fully investigate and understand what happened. "Samuel Cowell" draws attention to the fact that the later official report carried little of what the article did...but there is a big difference over what a reporter sees and what an investigation finds.

This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

The author only uses newspaper articles to make his points. He makes sure to use some of the most outlandish and outdated articles he can find while ignoring 70 plus years of research on the subject. I've tried to steer him towards books and websites...I've even encouraged him to come here to no avail...but he persists in using outlandish tales of Holocausts throughout the ages and tales of electricity, steam and fertilizer.

Newspaper articles are only a small part of the research available on this subject or any historical subject. Reporters have the same problem that eyewitnesses or victims do, mainly that they only see what they are permitted to see or what they see by accident. A single visit in February 1945 cannot tell us what Auschwitz was, it can only tell us what that reporter saw on that day.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:18 pm

Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.


Hey, we have the same guy!!!

:lol:

I comment on occasion. He's not so bad really, but, honestly, after hermie and the flying Rizoli brothers (not to mention the screeching harridan Diane) anyone is an improvement.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:38 pm

Oh, just in case, here is Oozy's thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27938

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Xcalibur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:53 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Another rookie but heroic truth-seeker and forensic investigator. I think it was said he is a teacher. This one must be totally stupid, because this argument, a newspaper that uses a photograph used before by another newspaper, is of course not even for elementary kids.

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2017/03/ ... holocaust/

He recycles stuff he finds on the internet and making insulting denial jokes, and then excuses himself saying it was just for fun, the usual Alt-Right memes s**tlords tactic.


Since when don't news organs use "file photos"?

Retard. And conniving liar.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:56 pm

FAKE NEWS are only Good News if it tells us what we want to hear...




(Yeah, I know. Those weren't really fake news reports.)

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:34 pm

Some recent additions by the newspaper guy:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:57 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/


Image

Damn that's a good one!

Colonel Mantout was involved in the interrogations of Kurt Gerstein, during which he claimed the nazis had gassed 20 or even 25 million, and soon after, supposedly, topped himself. Mantout was using *Gerstein's figures* in that press conference the article's about.

1.2m killed at Auschwitz in just one day

"a very smooth Jewish lawyer ... a man who has moved in influential circles."
- Description of Mantout in a British Security Service report dated May 27, 1942

Lieutenant-Colonel Gilbert Mantout of the French Air Force and the French War Crimes Investigation Office spoke with Reuters news agency on August 30, 1945, its subsequent report stated that Mantout "had collected evidence showing that on one day in April 1944, 1,200,000 people were liquidated in the various camps of Auschwitz", "[a]t least 26,000,000 person were methodically exterminated" in German concentration camps, and "that the figure of 26,000,000 was if anything, well below the actual total of people put to death." "Human bones from the camps were used for raw material for the manufacture of chemical fertilisers, while the fats were turned into soap." The article quoted Mantout as saying: "These are facts about which there is no longer any possibility of doubt." [1]

Gilbert Mantout was born in French Algeria during 1907 and the country remained his home until the Second World War. He was a lawyer specialising in maritime insurance cases, but also bred race horses, his horse "Jemmapes" won the Grand Prix de Nice in 1938. He performed his National Service for France in Algeria during 1929/30, and in 1938, at the time of the Munich Crisis, he was again called-up by France, this time opting to join the Air Force for which he subsequently travelled to Bordeaux to train as a pilot. In December 1939 his regiment was dispatched for further training to Rabat in the French protectorate of Morocco, where he was promoted to Lieutenant around May 1940. Despite the Armistice between Germany and France being signed in June 1940, Mantout remained in North Africa until March 1942 when he escaped into British Gibraltar. This cast some suspicion over Mantout's activities during the period, but the British Security Service could find no fault in him, believing his story that prior to his successful escape, twelve previous attempts had all failed. The British were in fact keen to employ Mantout as an agent, although it appears that this never happened.[2] From what little information I've been able to discover about his activities during July 1942-1944, he was part the Free French Forces and supposedly a constant shadow of De Gaulle.

Mantout's 26,000,000 figure given to Reuters is reminiscent of the truly enormous figures (20 or 25 million killed at Belzec and Treblinka alone) supposedly thrown about by Kurt Gerstein in his various confessions to the French in April and May of 1945. Which is surely no coincide, as Mantout was the head of the organisation (Organe de Recherche des Criminals de Guerre: ORCG) which interrogated Gerstein, and he was even present during his interrogations, as he admitted decades later to French author Pierre Joffroy:

Sturmführer Kurt Gerstein, who had been arrested—one might say, at his own request—by the ORCG in Germany, was sent by the Constance section to our Paris headquarters, where he was interrogated before being handed over to the military courts. My attention was drawn to this rather special case, and I remember being present on two occasions when he was questioned. My impression of the man was that he was a mystic in a state of traumatic shock, and desperate because no one, neither the Germans nor the French, would take him seriously. As it were, a discredited Joan of Arc deprived of her funeral pyre.
- Gilbert Mantout [3]


French researcher Henri Roques in his study of Gerstein's confessions quotes a June 6, 1945 letter written by Mantout which accompanied a transcript of an interrogation of Gerstein dated June 6, 1945 (which Roques denotes as document: "T Va") in which Gerstein states: "I estimate the number of defenseless human beings murdered by Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler at about 20 million." [4]

REPUBLIC OF FRANCE
Liberty • Equality • Fraternity
Presidency of the French Government
Paris, 6 June 1945
General Directorate of Studies and Research, (references illegible), Head of the Bureau for the Investigation of War Criminals to Monsieur le Professor Gros, CARLTON GARDENS 4, LONDON
I have the honor to send you herewith the copy of the interrogation by my office of the person concerned: GERSTEIN OF TUBINGEN.
This document will not fail, I believe, to interest you.
In any event, I leave it in your care to decide whether it should be sent to the WAR CRIMES COMMISSION.
I am satisfied with the first results obtained by the French teams for investigation of war criminals who are working in Germany, and I inform you that my services are at the present time in possession of 41,000 record cards on war criminals.
G.MANTOUT [5]


1. "26,000,000 were Liquidated," The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror (Bristol, U.K.), Friday, August 31, 1945, p. 1.
2. Report and summaries on Gilbert Mantout all dated 1942, in UK National Archives: HS 9-985-6.
3. Pierre Joffroy; Norman Denny (translator), A Spy for God: The Ordeal of Kurt Gerstein, London: Collins, 1971, p. 251.
4. Henri Roques, The Confessions of Kurt Gerstein, Los Angeles, CA: Institute of Historical Review, 1989, p. 64.
5. Ibid., p. 129.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Xcalibur » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:02 am

So what.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:12 am

BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is a new blog that I came across:

https://disjecta.wordpress.com/


Image

Damn that's a good one!

Colonel Mantout was involved in the interrogations of Kurt Gerstein, during which he claimed the nazis had gassed 20 or even 25 million, and soon after, supposedly, topped himself. Mantout was using *Gerstein's figures* in that press conference the article's about.

1.2m killed at Auschwitz in just one day

"a very smooth Jewish lawyer ... a man who has moved in influential circles."
- Description of Mantout in a British Security Service report dated May 27, 1942

Lieutenant-Colonel Gilbert Mantout of the French Air Force and the French War Crimes Investigation Office spoke with Reuters news agency on August 30, 1945, its subsequent report stated that Mantout "had collected evidence showing that on one day in April 1944, 1,200,000 people were liquidated in the various camps of Auschwitz", "[a]t least 26,000,000 person were methodically exterminated" in German concentration camps, and "that the figure of 26,000,000 was if anything, well below the actual total of people put to death." "Human bones from the camps were used for raw material for the manufacture of chemical fertilisers, while the fats were turned into soap." The article quoted Mantout as saying: "These are facts about which there is no longer any possibility of doubt." [1]

Gilbert Mantout was born in French Algeria during 1907 and the country remained his home until the Second World War. He was a lawyer specialising in maritime insurance cases, but also bred race horses, his horse "Jemmapes" won the Grand Prix de Nice in 1938. He performed his National Service for France in Algeria during 1929/30, and in 1938, at the time of the Munich Crisis, he was again called-up by France, this time opting to join the Air Force for which he subsequently travelled to Bordeaux to train as a pilot. In December 1939 his regiment was dispatched for further training to Rabat in the French protectorate of Morocco, where he was promoted to Lieutenant around May 1940. Despite the Armistice between Germany and France being signed in June 1940, Mantout remained in North Africa until March 1942 when he escaped into British Gibraltar. This cast some suspicion over Mantout's activities during the period, but the British Security Service could find no fault in him, believing his story that prior to his successful escape, twelve previous attempts had all failed. The British were in fact keen to employ Mantout as an agent, although it appears that this never happened.[2] From what little information I've been able to discover about his activities during July 1942-1944, he was part the Free French Forces and supposedly a constant shadow of De Gaulle.

Mantout's 26,000,000 figure given to Reuters is reminiscent of the truly enormous figures (20 or 25 million killed at Belzec and Treblinka alone) supposedly thrown about by Kurt Gerstein in his various confessions to the French in April and May of 1945. Which is surely no coincide, as Mantout was the head of the organisation (Organe de Recherche des Criminals de Guerre: ORCG) which interrogated Gerstein, and he was even present during his interrogations, as he admitted decades later to French author Pierre Joffroy:

Sturmführer Kurt Gerstein, who had been arrested—one might say, at his own request—by the ORCG in Germany, was sent by the Constance section to our Paris headquarters, where he was interrogated before being handed over to the military courts. My attention was drawn to this rather special case, and I remember being present on two occasions when he was questioned. My impression of the man was that he was a mystic in a state of traumatic shock, and desperate because no one, neither the Germans nor the French, would take him seriously. As it were, a discredited Joan of Arc deprived of her funeral pyre.
- Gilbert Mantout [3]


French researcher Henri Roques in his study of Gerstein's confessions quotes a June 6, 1945 letter written by Mantout which accompanied a transcript of an interrogation of Gerstein dated June 6, 1945 (which Roques denotes as document: "T Va") in which Gerstein states: "I estimate the number of defenseless human beings murdered by Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler at about 20 million." [4]

REPUBLIC OF FRANCE
Liberty • Equality • Fraternity
Presidency of the French Government
Paris, 6 June 1945
General Directorate of Studies and Research, (references illegible), Head of the Bureau for the Investigation of War Criminals to Monsieur le Professor Gros, CARLTON GARDENS 4, LONDON
I have the honor to send you herewith the copy of the interrogation by my office of the person concerned: GERSTEIN OF TUBINGEN.
This document will not fail, I believe, to interest you.
In any event, I leave it in your care to decide whether it should be sent to the WAR CRIMES COMMISSION.
I am satisfied with the first results obtained by the French teams for investigation of war criminals who are working in Germany, and I inform you that my services are at the present time in possession of 41,000 record cards on war criminals.
G.MANTOUT [5]


1. "26,000,000 were Liquidated," The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror (Bristol, U.K.), Friday, August 31, 1945, p. 1.
2. Report and summaries on Gilbert Mantout all dated 1942, in UK National Archives: HS 9-985-6.
3. Pierre Joffroy; Norman Denny (translator), A Spy for God: The Ordeal of Kurt Gerstein, London: Collins, 1971, p. 251.
4. Henri Roques, The Confessions of Kurt Gerstein, Los Angeles, CA: Institute of Historical Review, 1989, p. 64.
5. Ibid., p. 129.


I'll bounce your reply back to the newspaper guy, Rabbit. He'll be so pleased.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:20 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oozy's recent post regarding the "Conveyor Belts of Death" reminded me of the weird denier obsession over newspaper articles. Deniers pick out the oddest, most outrageous newspaper articles written during and after the war as some type of representation of "Black Propaganda" designed to shift attitudes against Germans and build the infamous "myth."


The reporter in question visited Auschwitz on February 2nd, 1945, about a week after liberation. This is the article:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Pravda020245.html

It's easy to understand how and why there are a mixture of true, false and misunderstood items in this article. There simply was not time to fully investigate and understand what happened. "Samuel Cowell" draws attention to the fact that the later official report carried little of what the article did...but there is a big difference over what a reporter sees and what an investigation finds.


Here is that newspaper article being displayed in Block 13 in Auschwitz I as part of the exhibition "Extermination of European Roma" [my photo, 19.01.12]:

Image

I don't think anyone has ever been so on topic in a forum post!
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:32 am

The newspaper fellow enjoys posting many a lurid newspaper story from yore, Rabbit. I think if you look you'll find the one about the spanking machine.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:34 am

Sorry, whipping machine.
https://disjecta.wordpress.com/

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:37 am

Ah, Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier's IMT testimony on 28 January 1946.

"One of the most usual punishments was 50 blows with a stick on the loins. They were administered with a machine which I saw, a swinging apparatus manipulated by an SS."

This communist politician was one of the speakers at a 6 December 1945 meeting in Paris to protest against the lack of death sentences handed down at the Lueneburg-Belsen trial [FO 371/57560].

I've pointed out to Balsamo before; Ilse Forster got off with just a 10 years sentence for having worked at Belsen for 2 months as a kitchen supervisor.

The the only *evidence* presented against Foerster was the testimony of Sophia Litwinska [affidavit and witnesses appearance], and Regina Bialek and Hilda Lippman [affidavits only].

Both Litwinska and Bialek claimed to have been carried out of a gas chamber in the middle of a gassing!

Yet former the former SK doctor Charles Bendel told the court:

Have you ever heard in Auschwitz Concentration Camp of anybody being released from the gas chamber?

During the time I was there I have never heard about it; it was impossible.


This was Lippman's affidavit testimony against Foerest:

At Belsen I was employed as a cook and cleaner in Kitchen No. 1 in Camp 1. The SS woman in charge was Ilse Förster. She delighted in catching both men and women internees attempting to steal vegetables from outside the kitchen. Two or three times in the course of the day she would take the culprits into a small office adjoining the kitchen and beat them with a rubber stick and kick them. She often drew blood. I saw her on one occasion beat a sick man so badly that he had to be carried away afterwards.


Vaillant-Couturier wanted Foerest sentenced to death for that. It wasn't even true according to Foerster, and Lippman wasn't present at the trial to be cross-examined by Foerster's counsel.

I'm sure the testimony Vaillant-Couturier gave at the IMT was in no way embellished, and there really was a spanking machine at Birkenau. :roll:
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:36 pm

I actually prefer the one where Jews were given just enough gas to stagger to their graves and bury themselves.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm

My favorite is "life saving" camps.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:14 pm

Why would a death camp have a brothel?
Or a sewage treatment plant?

Those are also high on the list.

Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:06 pm

BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.

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Re: Newspapuhs!!!!! Get yer newspapuhs here!!!!!

Postby Denying-History » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:25 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
BRoI wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oh, wait, forgot this one:
What happened to the other three million people that supposedly died at Auschwitz?


Many Kitty Hart admirers asked similar questions of the naysayers, at least until the Great Reduction of 89, which left them feeling as if they'd been duped.

"And if four million Jews were not exterminated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where are those four million now?"

- Kitty Hart, Return to Auschwitz, 1983, p.171.


Then I have good news for them, the Soviets and Poles never claimed that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.


Whew, that's a breath of fresh air.

Spoiler:
Personally, it's rather shocking that deniers are so focused on this. Some of their literature states the 4 million figure was not just Jews.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace


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