Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:27 pm

bump
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Monstrous seems to be ignoring this thread, which he started.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:34 pm

@Jeff_36: I don't believe we will be getting answers.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:42 pm

bump for Monstrous
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Monstrous » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:08 pm

No comments on stunning admission that Wiesnthal FAKED the 5 million non-Jews???

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:51 pm

Not germane. (Have I been citing Wiesenthal's estimates for anything?!?!?!)

Poor attempt to divert from your failure to clarify the BS Rudolf tried passing off with regard to Rothstein.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Monstrous » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:11 pm

http://codoh.com/library/document/920/

The EG most likely killed some Jews in Kiev, as elsewhere, but the genocidal killing of every Jew is suspect.

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Monstrous » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:13 pm

Monstrous managed to post in the wrong thread! Moved!

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:19 pm

Monstrous wrote:Monstrous managed to post in the wrong thread!

Hardly surprising.
It appears also that you've decided not to bother trying to clarify the BS Rudolf tried passing off with regard to Rothstein.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:36 pm

Any denier wish to explain to Jeff_36 and me why, given the gaps in Rothstein's biography and Rudolf's gaffes, we should take seriously what Rudolf wrote about Rothstein? Monstrous's last attempt to explain was to post about Wiesenthal's estimate of non-Jewish civilian deaths during WWII, which was very odd.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:56 pm

Monstrous wrote:No comments on stunning admission that Wiesnthal FAKED the 5 million non-Jews???


I missed this bit, faked?

No, Wiesenthal added five million deaths to the Jewish death toll in an effort to downplay the "Jewishness" of the Holocaust. These deaths included the Soviet POWs, disabled, Roma/gypsies, the Polish elite, etc. These people still died but it's debatable if they should be included with the Jewish death toll.

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:34 pm

And, according to grounded estimates, Wiesenthal's number came up short by a couple or so million. "FAKED" is also a loaded word: my guess is that based on general knowledge Wiesenthal made a SWAG, as discussed in a recent thread - that is, without doing detailed analysis, a ballpark, crude number for the directional purpose you note, to put the scope of German war crimes and crimes against humanity into context. I haven't read about this estimate in any depth, and am not that knowledgeable about Wiesenthal, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he based his estimate on previous estimates and that the 5m is not even really his. Large deal.

So . . . anyone wish to explain why we should take Rudolf seriously on the matter of Rothstein?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:21 pm

I've noticed that EtienneSC at ISF (JREF) and Werd at Rodoh have cited Rudolf's article (EtienneSC: "a recent Germar Rudolf essay on the Aktion Reinhard camps that in effect is a response to Eric Hunt's remarks on the subject on his questioningtheholocaust site": Werd: "apparently Germar Rudolf has found yet more examples of people transited through Treblinka"). AT ISF I've asked EtienneSC to help out with the questions asked in this thread about the sources and about shoddy research done by Rudolf.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:11 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:No comments on stunning admission that Wiesnthal FAKED the 5 million non-Jews???


I missed this bit, faked?

No, Wiesenthal added five million deaths to the Jewish death toll in an effort to downplay the "Jewishness" of the Holocaust. These deaths included the Soviet POWs, disabled, Roma/gypsies, the Polish elite, etc. These people still died but it's debatable if they should be included with the Jewish death toll.

from Roberto Muehlenkamp's preliminary effort to think this through:
. . . the total number of non-Jews who perished through criminal violence by Nazi Germany and its allies during World War II, i.e. of non-Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus” as defined in Part 1 of this article, is the following:

Soviet Union 5,030,000 to 5,800,000
Poland 1,000,000
Czechoslovakia 33,000
Yugoslavia 260,000
Romania 51,000
Hungary 28,000
Greece 150,000
Italy 76,000
France 147,000
Belgium 17,000
Netherlands 75,000
Norway 2,000
Denmark 1,000
Austria 16,000
Germany 245,000
Total 7,131,000 to 7,901,000

Even the lowest of these totals (7,131,000) exceeds by far not only the 5 million non-Jewish victims “invented” by Simon Wiesenthal but also the highest estimates (around 6 million) of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus”. If we consider Nick Terry’s minimum estimate of ca. 5,364,000 Jewish victims of Nazi persecution, the minimum total of people who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus” would be 5,364,000 + 7,131,000 = 12,495,000, thereof 43 % Jews and 57 % non-Jews. . . .

And now back to our regularly scheduled program, "Deniers Dodging Questions" . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:38 pm

I checked again - still nothing at Codoh to provide support for Rudolf's claims about Rothstein. Probably, lacking such, Monstrous can't figure out what to link to, er write.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:33 pm

EtienneSC is one of those revisionists glomming on to Rudolf's article. Here's our ISF exchange on it:
LemmyCaution wrote:
EtienneSC wrote:Here is a recent Germar Rudolf essay on the Aktion Reinhard camps that in effect is a response to Eric Hunt's remarks on the subject on his questioningtheholocaust site:
One Single Survivor
Relative to Rothstein, how does a man whose fate is unknown (two Yad Vashem records have him sent from Theresienstadt to Minsk, two YV records have him sent to Treblinka, none has him sent via Treblinka to Minsk - and the data comes from memorial-book-type sources) become representative of anything, let alone a supposedly vast transit program?

You do know, don't you, that during the period of Rothstein's supposed arrival in Minsk the Germans were shooting Jews in Minsk?

Rudolf's comments on Rothstein are based on very shoddy work and wishful thinking: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27891

EtienneSC, like Monstrous here, failed to respond at ISF, instead making a long post full of sophistry about the nature of Holocaust historiography.

I suppose it would be a good idea to do a full critique of Rudolf's piece sometime; for now, let's see if any of these jokers can explain Rothstein and why Rudolf used his tragic case to promote nonsense.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:45 pm

Questions for EtienneSC or anyone else regarding Rudolf's claims about Rothstein in this post I made at ISF:
Originally Posted by EtienneSC
Here is a recent Germar Rudolf essay on the Aktion |Reinhard camps that in effect is a response to Eric Hunt's remarks on the subject on his questioningtheholocaust site:
One Single Survivor

In this piece, Rudolf made the following argument regarding Siegmund Rothstein, from Berlin: Rothstein
was first deported to the Theresienstadt Ghetto for elderly Jews in August 1942. Barely a month later, however, on September 26, he was deported to Treblinka at the age of 75. But that was not his end at all, because the German authorities found life signs of him further east, as they finally determined that Rothstein died in Minsk, the capital city of Belarus, some 240 miles (286 km) east of Treblinka. I doubt 75-year-old Mr. Rothstein jumped off the train prior to arriving at Treblinka and ran all the way to German-occupied Minsk, Hence, he must have traveled there by train. I also doubt that the German authorities reserved a train just for him or put just him on a military train going to Minsk. Rather, he must have made that journey on a deportation train together with hundreds or thousands of fellow deportees from Theresienstadt.

Can you help me follow this? I have to state upfront - see what follows - that Rudolf seems to be lying in this essay.

Are we sure that Rothstein ever went to Treblinka? Do we know where Rothstein perished? Rudolf’s first claim was that “memorial book” sources show that Rothstein was deported from Theresienstadt to Treblinka on 26 September. This is not accurate:

The sources on which Rudolf relies are contradictory and not definitive. Rudolf cites an essay by Boisdefu which makes use of 3 Yad Vashem records for Siegmund (Zigmund) Rothstein. I’ve been able to find four Yad Vashem has records for Rothstein, each based on a memorial-book type source. (Three of these records are the ones Boisdefu used.) Two of the records have Rothstein perishing in Minsk, two records have him dying in Treblinka:

- record #10760945 (based on the Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community with names and biographic data of Jews who perished during the Holocaust) has Rothstein deported not from Theresienstadt but from “Kitzingen, Kitzingen (Mainfranken), Bavaria” to Minsk, where he died - no date. Since we have a record (transport list of I/37 from Berlin to Theresienstadt of Rothstein being brought to Theresienstadt, this record is unlikely to be accurate. It makes no mention of Treblinka. (http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.h ... 0945&ind=0)

- record #4129032 (based on Memory Book of the Jewish Victims of National Socialism, Freie Universität Berlin, Central Institute for Social Science Research, Edition Hentrich, Berlin 1995) says that Rothstein was deported on transport I/37 from Berlin to Theresienstadt on I/37 on 4 August 1942, then perishing in Minsk, no date provided. (http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.h ... 9032&ind=3)

- record #4911011 (based on Terezinska Pametni Kniha [Theresa's memorial book], Terezinska Iniciativa, vol. I-II Melantrich, Praha 1995, vol. III Academia Publishing House, Prague 2000 Memorial Book Theresienstadt, Terezin Initiative) has Rothstein deported from Berlin to Theresienstadt on I/37 on 4 August 1942, then from Theresienstadt to Treblinka on 26 September 1942. (http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.h ... 1011&ind=4)

- record #11619891 (based on Victory of the Persecution of Jews under the National Socialist Tyranny in Germany 1933-1945 "prepared by the German Federal Archives”) has Rothstein deported to Theresienstadt (no transport #) on 4 August 1942 and from Theresienstadt to Treblinka on 26 September 1942). (http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.h ... 9891&ind=2)

Yad Vashem also has an online database of deportations (http://db.yadvashem.org/deportation/sea ... anguage=en) For transports from Theresienstadt to Treblinka, including the 26 September 1942 transport, lists of deportees are included. Rothstein’s name is not on any of these transport lists, to the best of my effort to find him (some of the names are out of alphabetical order but in three checks through the approximately 1000 names on this list I could not find Rothstein). So it appears that we cannot even “get” Rothstein to Treblinka. (Also, Rothstein’s name is not on the list of any transport from Theresienstadt to Minsk, again to the best of my effort.)

Can we sequence Rothstein's whereabouts - first Treblinka, then Minsk - based on the YV records? None of the YV records, nor the records viewed together, suggest that Rothstein went first from Theresienstadt to Treblinka, then from Treblinka to Minsk.

Record #10760945 has Rothstein going directly from Kitzingen to Minsk, bypassing Theresienstadt altogether. Neither of the two Treblinka records (#4911011 and #11619891) has any suggestion that Rothstein continued on to Minsk from Treblinka. Indeed, neither mentions Minsk at all. Both “Treblinka” records give a date for Rothstein’s transport from Theresienstadt to Treblinka (26 September 1942) but none of the Minsk records say when Rothstein arrived there (or when he left Theresienstadt).

There is no way from these 4 records to guess when Rothstein was supposed to have arrived in Minsk. Nor is there even a hint that Rothstein went to Treblinka before going to Minsk. All we have are 4 unverified records giving two different places people believe that Rothstein was taken and where he perished. How Rudolf was able to determine a sequence from these records (Treblinka, then Minsk) he did not state. Rather, he simply invented the sequence. One of the Minsk records is clearly inaccurate, as noted above, the second is sketchy by comparison to the two Treblinka records.

Again, Rudolf provided zero evidence whatsoever for any sequence of Rothstein’s whereabouts in fall 1942 - and, more importantly, failed to resolve to what destination Rothstein was taken from Theresienstadt. These failures didn’t stop Rudolf from pretentiously asserting a fully fabricated sequence of Rothstein’s deportations to support the Treblinka transit lie (“Treblinka as a transit station”).

Was there an official final determination, as Rudolf claimed, of where Rothstein perished? Rudolf also wrote that “the German authorities . . . finally determined that Rothstein died in Minsk.” This is not supported by what Rudolf presented in his essay. According to the records which Rudolf referenced (relying, as noted above, on a similarly dishonest essay by Boisdefu, which discussed 3 of the above YV memorial-book based records), we simply don’t know where Rothstein died: in Theresienstadt, at Treblinka, or in Minsk are all possible locations. Rudolf presented no evidence to clear up the differences among the records.

Must Rothstein have traveled by train to Minsk? Rudolf wrote also that Rothstein “must have traveled [to Minsk] by train.” Since we don’t know that Rothstein ever went to Minsk, the “must” is just more of Rudolf’s pretentious twaddle. Rudolf didn’t bother proposing any specific, sourced transport which “must have” taken Rothstein to Minsk.

Did 1000s of other deportees travel with Rothstein to Minsk? Rudolf’s falsehoods are not enough to prevent him from adding one more, the biggest of all: “[Rothstein] must have made that journey on a deportation train together with hundreds or thousands of fellow deportees from Theresienstadt.” So now, unable to say where Rothstein went and died, Rudolf adds 1000s of deportees taking the imaginary route he claims for Rothstein.

Rudolf expanded on this point as follows: “This case, too, indicates that thousands of Jews seem to have been deported to ‘the East’ with Treblinka as a transit station. As a result, Treblinka must indeed have had the logistics to temporarily house, feed and clean hundreds, if not thousands of individuals for short periods of time. Among other things, it most likely did have a very real shower facility for that very purpose. It is therefore clear that orthodox historians have to adjust their narrative to accommodate that role somehow. . . .” Since Rudolf fabricated Rothstein’s "stopover" in Treblinka, to fictionalize that the Treblinka camp was used as a "transit station,” the rest of what he writes here is balderdash, including his portentous “musts,” nothing but the fanciful piling of inanity on inanity.

Sorry, from what I see in this case it is advocates of the chimera of resettlement who have “adjustments” to make. Among these adjustments, for starters, is explaining why Rudolf felt free to fabricate Rothstein's necessary itinerary in an essay purporting to give an empirical account.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:09 am

Someone at JREF seems to have utilized the OP of my thread on Rothstien in an attempt to gain a reaction from EteinneSC. I hope he gets a response.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11754037

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:58 am

I pretty much doubt it, just my attempt to get things started may have been overkill, two long posts are probably a bridge too far . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:41 pm

I am still not getting any response, here or at ISF, to the questions asked about Rudolf's claims regarding Siegmund Rothstein. Perhaps overkill discouraged EtienneSC?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby NathanC » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:54 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:Someone at JREF seems to have utilized the OP of my thread on Rothstien in an attempt to gain a reaction from EteinneSC. I hope he gets a response.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11754037


I'm not betting on it. EtienneSC will probably slink off again and wait for things to die down before repeating the same "arguments" ad infinitum.

Good stuff in the thread, though. Everyone's doing a great job. :)

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:18 pm

I am guessing you're right, between Ivanesca's challenge on Stangneth and on perpetrator study; what Nick and I posted about his claims on the typical structure of Holocaust narratives in the context of current historiography; and what LeoM and I posted on his Rudolf article recommendation, EtienneSC has a shitload to answer to.

In other news, the Captain Howdy-Smart Cooky debate over the definition of the Holocaust is sheer torture alleviated only by A'isha's (ANTPogo's) intelligent comments.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:55 pm

NathanC wrote:I'm not betting on it.

He's read 3 titles on Nick Terry's list. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... count=2255

I am rushed tonight - I have to head out for a class - so I answered quickly. Eager to hear what others have to say . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby NathanC » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:04 am

:lol:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
NathanC wrote:I'm not betting on it.

He's read 3 titles on Nick Terry's list. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... count=2255

I am rushed tonight - I have to head out for a class - so I answered quickly. Eager to hear what others have to say . . .


whoa. Poor baby's really having a tantrum....

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:45 am

NathanC wrote::lol:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
NathanC wrote:I'm not betting on it.

He's read 3 titles on Nick Terry's list. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... count=2255

I am rushed tonight - I have to head out for a class - so I answered quickly. Eager to hear what others have to say . . .


whoa. Poor baby's really having a tantrum....

Glad to see Ivanesca hop in, glad to be reminded of the theoretical stuff used by Browning . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:50 am

3 titles on Nick's list. Jesus wept.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:45 am

This paragraph from Rudolf's CODOH thing is truly bizarre:
It is therefore clear that orthodox historians have to adjust their narrative to accommodate that role somehow. For instance, Treblinka could be re-labeled as a combined extermination and transit camp, serving both purposes at once. This dual-interpretation approach, first observed by Arthur Butz in his trail-blazing book,[23] has been very successful in shoring up the orthodox extermination narrative for Auschwitz and Majdanek, when the mounting evidence against their cases threatened to undermine them. In the case of Treblinka, orthodox as well as revisionist historians could be accommodated by saying that, yes, there was a real shower, but, yes, it was also equipped to murder instead of shower the deportees. Whether that is a credible narrative, is for the reader to decide.

1) Is Rudolf trying to make out that "selection" is an invention to "shore up" a case for extermination? 2) Likewise the multiple purposes of Auschwitz and Majdanek? 3) Who does Rudolf imagine this imagined shoring up, and when did they imagine it? 4) On what basis should anyone care about "accommodating" deniers in interpretations of the camps - their claims aren't credible, so why should they have a seat at the table, so to speak - because Rudolf wants one? 5) Surely this buffoon realizes that knowledgeable readers have, in numbers embarrassing to his pretensions, decided and are deciding that his narrative - with idiocies like invented showers in Treblinka - is not credible?

I asked my wife to read Rudolf's piece and then to read some of my posts and some of Jeff_36's posts on Rothstein. Her first comment was, "Those people are really scummy, aren't they?" Answer: Yes, they are. Readers, apparently, find it easy to decide.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:27 pm

I find a "have to" based on a wishful "could be" based on a "could be" rather laughable but quite unsurprising. :lol:

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:13 am

scrmbldggs wrote:I find a "have to" based on a wishful "could be" based on a "could be" rather laughable but quite unsurprising. :lol:


I do notice that Monstrous uses hypotheticals quite a bit. "Could have" "perhaps" "Monstrous proposes" "Monstrous speculates" ect. ect.

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:20 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:I find a "have to" based on a wishful "could be" based on a "could be" rather laughable but quite unsurprising. :lol:


I do notice that Monstrous uses hypotheticals quite a bit. "Could have" "perhaps" "Monstrous proposes" "Monstrous speculates" ect. ect.

The way Monstrous reasons in this forum is that if something he would like to have happened has an infinitesimal degree of plausibility in his own mind, then it must have happened and trumps all the evidence showing what actually did happen. Monstrous's inept speculations are among the traits that make him such a clown.

Rudolf's sin in the Rothstein case, and the paragraph quoted above, is even worse, however: Rudolf invented a scenario, then used evidence dishonestly to "prove" his scenario, and finally used his fraudulent, invented scenario to argue the resettlement claim (and invent feature like showers in Treblinka!). Specifically, Rudolf relied on Boisdefu and the Yad Vashem records for Rothstein, without fully disclosing what those records contain, "hiding", as Eric Hunt has said the deniers he knows do, that the YV records on Rothstein show no time or journey relationship but were simply independent, contradictory records - two records saying he died in Minsk, two records saying he died in Treblinka. Rudolf fabricated a time sequence in Rothstein's itinerary (Theresienstadt - Treblinka - Minsk) totally unsupported by the Yad Vashem records or any other evidence he used.

Monstrous in turn tried to use this deceitful article to bolster his arguments here: I doubt that Monstrous knows enough to have figured out how/where Rudolf was lying.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:18 pm

So is Monstrous laying low to let the humiliation fade, and planning a new dumb-ass thread when it does? What gives with that turkey?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:19 pm

Also, I posted this on the same topic today at ISF/JREF:
@ EtienneSC, will you be replying to the questions and concerns which Leo Major and I raised about Rudolf's use of Siegmund Rothstein, or do you prefer to let that lie?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:20 pm

He's frantically searching through CODOH, the Holocaust Handbooks and RODOH to find anything to bolster his battered self-esteem.

Poor little fellow. Maybe Ian will come back and help him.

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:25 pm

As to EtienneSC's latest (I'm waiting for class to begin so again had to reply fast), I can't even figure out what he meant. He responded to Ivanesca's comment on Reinecke with a tour of his efforts to find the Taübner verdict which he seems to have found but won't now admit his doubts were idiotic. Then he goes into a book he read by the son of an EG officer and makes a series of bewildering statements about Ohlendorf, Browning and Goldhagen (the last of these being a writer I've barely heard referenced in years, except to further dismiss his work). I have no idea what the tie between these three is meant to be.

No doubt Ivanesca will give a usual great reply and maybe by then I will figure out what point EtienneSC had besides obfuscating ...
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:18 am

Nick Terry beat Ivanesca to it.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby NathanC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:27 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:As to EtienneSC's latest (I'm waiting for class to begin so again had to reply fast), I can't even figure out what he meant. He responded to Ivanesca's comment on Reinecke with a tour of his efforts to find the Taübner verdict which he seems to have found but won't now admit his doubts were idiotic. Then he goes into a book he read by the son of an EG officer and makes a series of bewildering statements about Ohlendorf, Browning and Goldhagen (the last of these being a writer I've barely heard referenced in years, except to further dismiss his work). I have no idea what the tie between these three is meant to be.

No doubt Ivanesca will give a usual great reply and maybe by then I will figure out what point EtienneSC had besides obfuscating ...


given the sheer volume of word salad in both of ESC's posts, it may take a while....

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:41 am

ESC makes a stunningly stupid post and Nick jumps all over it :lol:

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:45 am

Jeff_36 wrote:ESC makes a stunningly stupid post and Nick jumps all over it :lol:

I literally could not figure out how he was putting Ohlendorf-Browning-Goldhagen together. The post made no sense to me. The three don't belong together, as Nick so brutally and clearly told EtienneSC.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:04 am

ESC wrote:There are footnotes in Laurence Rees' Auschwitz, but none of them refer to German wartime documents.

A blatant lie that took me less than two minutes to disprove
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Re: Scott & Rudolf: Monstrous Tag-Team Believer Takedown!

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:12 am

LeoMajor wrote:* Images courtesy of Jeff_36 at SSF. Nice find Jeff!


Why, I'm honored :yahoo:


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