Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Oozy_Substance
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Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:28 am

Deniers showed me this list several times. I call it The Great Strawman List.

http://imgur.com/a/LX2Du

Ignore the "Ben Garrison" autograph, despite being a rightist caricaturist, he got nothing to do with this pic.

Anyway, do we know of some references to any of the claims here?
I know some are originated in a single testimony, for example.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:00 pm

bump

so does anyone know some of the claims in the picture?

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:53 pm

The electric chair thing is from stories at Auschwitz, I think.
Hot steam is a David specialty, it comes from early reports on Treblinka.
The dog castration deal comes from Barry the dog, supposedly trained to castrate victims. That is from Treblinka (maybe also from Sobibor?).
Guillotines were the execution method used by Germany that predates Hitler.

The rest of it, eh.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the garbage. It has no bearing on the history itself, it's like shrunken heads and soap.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:11 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:The electric chair thing is from stories at Auschwitz, I think.
Hot steam is a David specialty, it comes from early reports on Treblinka.
The dog castration deal comes from Barry the dog, supposedly trained to castrate victims. That is from Treblinka (maybe also from Sobibor?).
Guillotines were the execution method used by Germany that predates Hitler.

The rest of it, eh.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the garbage. It has no bearing on the history itself, it's like shrunken heads and soap.


Do you happen to know if some of the items in the list has some merit (except "gassing") ?
I am curious to know how deniers come up with such pieces, was it an actual testimony, it is some distortion of facts, or maybe the deniers just make it up? For example "chambers with knives cutting up people".

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:26 pm

off the top of my head:

* shooting infants (many accounts)
* shot inside gas chambers (e.g., Josef Schillinger episode)
* women burning better than men
* dogs (e.g., Bari) attacking men’s groins
* set on fire (numerous - e.g., Bialystok synagogue IIRC, Jedwabne pogrom, Gardelegen massacre, Radzilow pogrom)
* peepholes in gas chambers (but for SS to examine progress of murder operation)
* book made of human skin/tattooed skins (not clear as to books, that one might be based on tattooed skins at Buchenwald - see this)
* large octopus with tentacles operated by Jewish wire-pullers ensnaring the globe (proven via footage of original Jewish plot)

Others who've spent time looking at atrocities can correct this list or answer better than I.

My opinion: Atrocities, however, are not the main point: even if Bari hadn't torn at the genitals of Jewish inmates at Treblinka, Jews were persecuted, deprived of participation in society, and subjected to genocide. That said, given human nature and Nazi (Ustasha, etc) ideology, the surprise would be an absence of atrocities. Within the KLs, atrocities by Camp SS and Kapos were permitted to terrorize prisoners, and cruelty was also "managed" elsewhere in Nazi-occupied areas for the same end, as well as some degree of self-expression on the part of perpetrators.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:00 pm

So the case of Barry the Dog in Treblinka became "Dogs cascrating people". Typical denial tactics.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:07 pm

Barry was very aggressive. Deniers generally refuse to agree with this because of Kurt Fanz's testimony in which he denied Barry's aggressiveness but enough testimony exists to claim that the dog had attacked people regardless of some exaggeration.
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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:24 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:So the case of Barry the Dog in Treblinka became "Dogs cascrating people". Typical denial tactics.


Barry was a St. Bernard, a very large dog generally known for their easygoing temperament. Talbot, a denier on FG's blog, loves to point this out.

The truth is any dog trained the right way is dangerous. St. Bernard's have been responsible for some human deaths over the years, I looked it up. Trained in the right way they can be dangerous because of their size and the strength of their bite.

So, yeah, this is just another denier dodge.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:37 pm

btw the "masturbation machines for killing boys" is something I came across with once. The source is some book, written by some guy, from Australia, I think, he claims to be a survivor. Maybe he is, but this part of his book sounds shoddy. Historians doubt his book. Of course deniers would point out this as something historians accept.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:10 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:btw the "masturbation machines for killing boys" is something I came across with once. The source is some book, written by some guy, from Australia, I think, he claims to be a survivor. Maybe he is, but this part of his book sounds shoddy. Historians doubt his book. Of course deniers would point out this as something historians accept.



Some of the weird sexual stuff speaks more to the denier frame of mind than what actually happened.

It's just another way of victimizing the survivors. The sad thing is that sexual assault of Jewish women occurred and is largely swept under the rug, there are only a couple of studies on it that I'm aware of. Sexual assault of younger men and boys also occurred and is largely ignored.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:14 pm

This was not just limited to the camp system and the SS, German soldiers also committed rape during the invasion of Poland and the USSR.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:18 pm

I think we can see some documented sexual assaults in the pictures from the Lviv Pogroms, in the following link (graphic) :

http://oun-b.livejournal.com/14552.html

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:26 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I think we can see some documented sexual assaults in the pictures from the Lviv Pogroms, in the following link (graphic) :

http://oun-b.livejournal.com/14552.html


Warning:
Some of the pictures are graphic.

I've seen more about it in recent literature, Cesarani and Gerlach both mention this in their books.

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:11 pm

The projection of sexual obsessions onto Jews is a standard denier trope, e.g., the famous "Jewish scatology" meme, which, best I can tell, is constructed from forced experiences to which inmates in KLs, other camps, and ghettos were subjected (e.g., open latrines, overflowing catch pits, punishments involving feces and urine, etc). I have actually kept a record in books I've read under the heading "Jewish scatology" - it consists of cruelty imposed on Jews and other prisoners of the Nazis involving bodily functions.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:15 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:Deniers showed me this list several times. I call it The Great Strawman List.

http://imgur.com/a/LX2Du

Ignore the "Ben Garrison" autograph, despite being a rightist caricaturist, he got nothing to do with this pic.

Anyway, do we know of some references to any of the claims here?
I know some are originated in a single testimony, for example.



Not sure where else to put this but this is about a German executioner who utilized the guillotine for executions pre-Nazi takeover and actually assisted the allied executioners.

https://dirkdeklein.net/2017/09/21/the-executioner-who-escaped-execution/

A bit more info on him:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-adolf-hitlers-head-hunter-10617983.amp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Reichhart

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Re: Holocaust-Denial Productions present : The Great Strawman List

Postby Denying-History » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:55 pm

Shooting Infants is a Strawman? I guess I forgot the last time an infant fired on Germans soldiers as an anti-partisan....
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