Treblinka's Body Disposal

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:38 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I agree, I think unclothed bodies would burn faster. I think clothing would have a dampening effect on the flames, especially heavy winter clothing like that shown on the Altmark photos...

And not only that, but also wet. AFAIK, at times, they had to scoop out the decomposing mass with buckets, so to speak...
.

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:49 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I agree, I think unclothed bodies would burn faster. I think clothing would have a dampening effect on the flames, especially heavy winter clothing like that shown on the Altmark photos...

And not only that, but also wet. AFAIK, at times, they had to scoop out the decomposing mass with buckets, so to speak...


Yes, they did. The SS used lime to speed up decomposition, this has a drying effect on the body which made it easier to burn.
But the SKs did scoop out decomposing body parts as well.

Glad I finished lunch.... :frown:

:D
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:35 am

I believe clothing would causes issues with those whom were buried. As for dry clothing it seems quite worthless and insignificant.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:[...] intention and progress deniers keep pretending that CSC is done and failed. [...]
Not sure if you own her latest book but a few sections of it are dedicated to revisionist claims about her findings. I can send you the important sections if you like.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:44 am

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:[...] intention and progress deniers keep pretending that CSC is done and failed. [...]
Not sure if you own her latest book but a few sections of it are dedicated to revisionist claims about her findings. I can send you the important sections if you like.


I don't have it. I'll be glad to read them.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:49 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:[...] intention and progress deniers keep pretending that CSC is done and failed. [...]
Not sure if you own her latest book but a few sections of it are dedicated to revisionist claims about her findings. I can send you the important sections if you like.


I don't have it. I'll be glad to read them.


Alright, I should be able to get it to you sometime soon.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:55 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:this one?
Yeah, her "Holocaust Archaeologies" book. It contains a few findings that were not released and the findings inside a few trenches that she dug.

It was a rather interesting read.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:08 am

Yes, I have it, but that's not what I meant. She has yet to pull this work together into a coherent, updated, complete presentation.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:15 am

That is true, she hasn't brought everything together for everyone to read.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Xcalibur » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:57 am

I must be getting old... I just read the title of this thread on the main page as "Trump's Body Disposal"....

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:04 am

Nah, that's the purpose of the overkill, the optical illusions that slap his name (however temporarily) on any word that begins with a capital T...
.

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:11 am

Try these:


Toddler enters Whine House.

Trams empty on smauguration day.

Turd found in trunk of docked car.
.

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Oozy_Substance » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:06 pm

I wish to bump this one with a new question. I came across a person from Bavaria (not a denier) who said the following thing :

Also my grandfather was in Auschwitz. They built piles of corpes on wooden structures and set them alight with fuel. They burned more people in the countryside than they did in the ovens.


According to him, his grandfather was a guard in Auschwitz and they made the use of pyres. But weren't the use of pyres/grills limited to the Reinhard Operation camps? Please enlight me on this one.
Of course, this person may be wrong, and his grandfather was in one of the Reinhard Operation camps.

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I wish to bump this one with a new question. I came across a person from Bavaria (not a denier) who said the following thing :

Also my grandfather was in Auschwitz. They built piles of corpes on wooden structures and set them alight with fuel. They burned more people in the countryside than they did in the ovens.


According to him, his grandfather was a guard in Auschwitz and they made the use of pyres. But weren't the use of pyres/grills limited to the Reinhard Operation camps? Please enlight me on this one.
Of course, this person may be wrong, and his grandfather was in one of the Reinhard Operation camps.

No, at Auschwitz there was also an exhumation and cremation process, for corpses buried near the two bunkers in the initial killings (late 1942, 100,000 corpses). Also, while the crematoria normally had sufficient capacity to handle incoming transports, during the Hungarian action the capacity of the Kremas vs incoming transport numbers required reopening of one of the little houses (#2) as well as pit cremations there - pits were also dug near Krema V for incineration of corpses at this time, think of the famous Sonderkommando photos outside Krema V . . .
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:44 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I wish to bump this one with a new question. I came across a person from Bavaria (not a denier) who said the following thing :

Also my grandfather was in Auschwitz. They built piles of corpes on wooden structures and set them alight with fuel. They burned more people in the countryside than they did in the ovens.


According to him, his grandfather was a guard in Auschwitz and they made the use of pyres. But weren't the use of pyres/grills limited to the Reinhard Operation camps? Please enlight me on this one.
Of course, this person may be wrong, and his grandfather was in one of the Reinhard Operation camps.


Just to add, this is an excellent article on open air burnings:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150325001007/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal

I've found this useful on occasion, especially this bit:

Many of the eyewitnesses to the outdoor burnings at Auschwitz stated that gasoline was used to dispose of the bodies, something that Mattogno did not mention. [281] The Germans used gasoline to dispose of bodies at Bergen-Belsen, [282] Majdanek, [283] and the Operation Reinhard extermination camps. [284] Like Dr.Frolich and the Belgian army in 1814, Sonderkommando Filip Müller addressed the specific problem Mattogno mentioned:

...[I]n the pits the fire would burn only as long as the air could circulate freely between the bodies. As the heap of bodies settled, no air was able to get in from the outside. This meant that we stokers had constantly to pour oil or wood alcohol on the burning corpses...

About fifteen stokers had to place the fuel in the pit and to light and maintain the fire by constantly stoking in between the corpses and pouring oil, wood alcohol and liquid human fat over them. [285]


Muller mentions "wood alcohol" or methanol. Auschwitz-Monowitz produced large quantities of methanol:

Only methanol production was begun on a large industrial scale in Auschwitz, in October 1943. Methanol had various applications: as a fuel additive, an important primary product of organic chemistry, a solvent, a stripper, and a methylation agent; it also was used in various ways for catalytic oxidation in the manufacture of plastics. According to a breakdown from the Four Year Plan office of GBChem, in 1944 alone, the last year of the war, I.G. Auschwitz produced a total of 28,998 tons of methanol, accounting for about 15 percent of Germany’s production for that year. The data in this breakdown cover methanol production in 1944 in the plants at Leuna, Waldenburg, Oppau, Heydebreck, and Auschwitz, with a total production of 186,416 tons.[6] Thus the making of methanol by I.G. Auschwitz was of considerable importance to the German war economy, whose fuel production recorded substantial losses due to the strategic airstrikes of the Allies in 1943/44, especially in western Germany.


http://www.wollheim-memorial.de/en/was_sollte_fabrik_produzieren
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Yes, I have it, but that's not what I meant. She has yet to pull this work together into a coherent, updated, complete presentation.

I was looking through folders of downloaded material this afternoon and noticed this - I had to find the link to be able to post it: it's Sturdy Colls' dissertation, "HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY: ARCHAEOLOGICAL APPROACHES TO LANDSCAPES
OF NAZI GENOCIDE AND PERSECUTION."

Has this dissertation been posted here before? Has anyone read it? IIRC Jeffk said he was going to . . . I am not of a mind right now to slog through it, as I am working on some other things, but I will eventually. Sturdy Coll's Preliminary Findings, etc, have not been updated since I am guessing 2013, and her vita still promises her Treblnka book, which is said to be in progress, in 2014. The Channel 5 documentary was in 2013. The dissertation is dated September 2011. Sturdy Colls seems to have gone onto other projects.
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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Yes, I have it, but that's not what I meant. She has yet to pull this work together into a coherent, updated, complete presentation.

I was looking through folders of downloaded material this afternoon and noticed this - I had to find the link to be able to post it: it's Sturdy Colls' dissertation, "HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY: ARCHAEOLOGICAL APPROACHES TO LANDSCAPES
OF NAZI GENOCIDE AND PERSECUTION."

Has this dissertation been posted here before? Has anyone read it? IIRC Jeffk said he was going to . . .


I haven’t had a chance to yet, I’m tied up with other reading projects. At some point I will.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:09 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Yes, I have it, but that's not what I meant. She has yet to pull this work together into a coherent, updated, complete presentation.

I was looking through folders of downloaded material this afternoon and noticed this - I had to find the link to be able to post it: it's Sturdy Colls' dissertation, "HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY: ARCHAEOLOGICAL APPROACHES TO LANDSCAPES
OF NAZI GENOCIDE AND PERSECUTION."

Has this dissertation been posted here before? Has anyone read it? IIRC Jeffk said he was going to . . . I am not of a mind right now to slog through it, as I am working on some other things, but I will eventually. Sturdy Coll's Preliminary Findings, etc, have not been updated since I am guessing 2013, and her vita still promises her Treblnka book, which is said to be in progress, in 2014. The Channel 5 documentary was in 2013. The dissertation is dated September 2011. Sturdy Colls seems to have gone onto other projects.


I seem to recall that on a certain other forum you, me and several others were underwhelmed to varying degrees with her stuff.

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Re: Treblinka's Body Disposal

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:20 am

Consistently underwhelmed, indeed. That's - I suppose - in part why I haven't looked at it.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"


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