"they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:That would be when Trump releases his tax returns?


:lol:

When that happens I'll go through and find where Ian was a troll.

Actually that won't take very long, but, hey, why do Ian any favors?

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:01 am

Did Monstrous reply yet?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:03 am

I haven't seen our little buddy log in for some time.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:15 am

Auschwitz Museum corrects the record: https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/sta ... 3022683137
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:16 pm

I saw some denier posting that.

1486220865002.png


Does is have some merit?
Any insights about this one?
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:29 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I saw some denier posting that.

Well, the fact that the Auschwitz Museum is arsed to correct public errors and has evidence to support its conclusions isn't much comfort to deniers, IMO.

On the death toll, Piper's article in this book covers the topic. Piper also has a chapter in the museum's 5-vol history of the camp on the death toll. Lots of posts in this forum and scission at HC of the issue. Suffice to say, Piper shows that a death toll of 1.1m, with IIRC 960,000 Jews perishing in the camp, is what the evidence supports, as in the OP. I am not able to speak to Pressac's maths and how he went wrong - maybe someone else can.

edit: fixed really dumb typo (thanks, you know who you are!)
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:39 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I saw some denier posting that.

1486220865002.png

Does is have some merit?
Any insights about this one?


D-H is the Pressac expert so I'm interested in what he has to say. I read Pressac's original book published in the 1980's.

I've not read either book cited in the 90's and Pressac is certainly entitled to write where his research leads him. However, Van Pelt and Piper seem more accurate to me. Piper came up with his death toll based upon his research into transports into the camp vs. transports out vs deaths logged in the camp. Van Pelt agrees with that and their tally equals with Rudolf Hoess's final death toll.

As for the second point about logged deaths, that's just denier bait and switch BS. Those are logged deaths and my understanding is that those might be incomplete. The thing to keep in mind is that approximately half of all deaths occurred outside of any camp....deaths by starvation, disease and malnutrition in ghettos and other places and the mass shootings of the EG on the Eastern Front (you can include the use of gas vans by the EG and in camps like Mauthhausen). The Reinhard Camps and Chelmno operated outside of the regular camp system and those victims were never logged anywhere.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:30 pm

As to Jeffk's 2nd point regarding death records at Auschwitz, here's HDOT's handy summary of the trick deniers try playing.

And - scroll down to "Death Books and Documentation" - here are links to more in-depth discussion of the issue at Holocaust Controversies.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:49 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I saw some denier posting that.

1486220865002.png

Does is have some merit?
Any insights about this one?

Both estimates are from Pressac's (strongly argued but also faulty book) "The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Machinery of Mass Murder". Sadly no English copies that exist to my knowledge outside one which I am not able to reach. In all honest I don't place much merit on to Pressacs estimates. Especially after reading most of Pipers comments on the issue. Pressac's estimate is a similar mistake to that of the soviets. He reaches his estimate though various means but in the end one of the major pieces is his conservative drop in the cremation capacity to 2.7 bodies per hour.

Pressac says that 250 corpses, not 340, could be burned per day in crematorium I; 1,000 rather than 1,440 in each of crematoria II and III; and 500 rather than 768 in crematoria IV and V.


http://web.archive.org/web/20090705103625/http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334&Itemid=8

The best estimates we have is for auschwitz is that the number of Jews killed lies between 900,000 to 1.3 million. If you are interested in arguing with deniers over technical arguments you would be best ether reading over alt.revisionism or buying anatomy of auschwitz.

It honestly all just depends on where you wish to focus yourself on. You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues. Or you could be more like SM and focus on the more important areas such as Nazi policy, simple demography, and on denier wordplay.

If you want the majority of the historical opinions views on Pressac, he was a raw researcher who opened the doors to the gas chambers, but that his distrust in documents has lead him to questionable conclusions.

D-H is the Pressac expert so I'm interested in what he has to say. I read Pressac's original book published in the 1980's.


God, I am hardly an expert, but I think I may have added my two cents on the matter. Pressacs celcualtions are based on reducing cremation capacity, the number of bodies dug up from the pits near the bunkers (I believe Meyers states pressac said 50,000 corpses against hoess's 107,000), and reducing the number of Hungarian Jews sent there.

As for the second point about logged deaths, that's just denier bait and switch BS.


That is correct, the actual number of people whom were registered and died at auschwitz totals around 300,000 people dead.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:57 pm

Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)



I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)



I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.
Pelts report is great and all, but its flow is nothing compared to his and Pressac's entry to Anatomy. You will find a good read there as well, though I am not sure if you own the book. I can do the usual attempt and try and make you a pdf of it (some times the books end up being to big). But only give you the chapter by Pressac and Van Pelt.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)

I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.
Pelts report is great and all, but its flow is nothing compared to his and Pressac's entry to Anatomy. You will find a good read there as well, though I am not sure if you own the book. I can do the usual attempt and try and make you a pdf of it (some times the books end up being to big). But only give you the chapter by Pressac and Van Pelt.

I agree with you, Anatomy is a must have. For me, the camp history is indispensable as well.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:11 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)



I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.
Pelts report is great and all, but its flow is nothing compared to his and Pressac's entry to Anatomy. You will find a good read there as well, though I am not sure if you own the book. I can do the usual attempt and try and make you a pdf of it (some times the books end up being to big). But only give you the chapter by Pressac and Van Pelt.


I'm looking to get a copy of Anatomy of a Death Camp but if you can make me a PDF I'd like that as well.
See what you can do, I appreciate it.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)

I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.
Pelts report is great and all, but its flow is nothing compared to his and Pressac's entry to Anatomy. You will find a good read there as well, though I am not sure if you own the book. I can do the usual attempt and try and make you a pdf of it (some times the books end up being to big). But only give you the chapter by Pressac and Van Pelt.

I agree with you, Anatomy is a must have. For me, the camp history is indispensable as well.
For Auschwitz, at least in my personal opinion the must have books are Anatomy and Case for Auschwitz. These two books set deniers arguments to shame. As for camp history, I still feel we have a long way to go. As was outlined by Pressac in the 1990's. Nikolaus Wachsmann's KL was a step in this direction.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Has the death toll of Auschwitz I Stammlager been listed separately somewhere?
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:You could be the nitpick that I am slowly developing myself to be on technical issues.

For which those of us less technically inclined thank you!! :)



I will second that!!!!!

You also know more about Pressac than I do, I just know the very basics (it amuses me that he was Faurrison's errand boy) and his original book. I read his book once and I refer to it when these technical matters come up, though to be honest I felt Van Pelt a much easier read.
Pelts report is great and all, but its flow is nothing compared to his and Pressac's entry to Anatomy. You will find a good read there as well, though I am not sure if you own the book. I can do the usual attempt and try and make you a pdf of it (some times the books end up being to big). But only give you the chapter by Pressac and Van Pelt.


I'm looking to get a copy of Anatomy of a Death Camp but if you can make me a PDF I'd like that as well.
See what you can do, I appreciate it.


No problem bud, I will try and make you a copy of at least Pressac and Van pelts entry. Though I know someone who can get you access to the whole book online. I will chat with them and see if its ok to share the link.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:37 pm

Yeah, Pelt's Case is also a must-have. The camp history is even more comprehensive; it suffers from a kind of hyper-empiricism but it really has thorough coverage of the significant aspects of the camp, which can be supplemented with monographs from the museum on Monowitz and other sub camps; volumes of testimonies organized by themes; and individual studies of important topics, like the evacuation of the camp.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:04 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:I saw some denier posting that.

1486220865002.png

Does is have some merit?
Any insights about this one?


I've seen a lot of quibbles similar to this, but not this one specifically. In my lifetime, I've known personally only two deniers. One was a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 abortive revolt. His reasoning was typical of deniers. In the US, he met a former Jewish neighbor whom he had thought or been told was killed in the camps. That convinced him that the whole six million was a hoax. (Really, that's how he argued.)

The other is not exactly a denier, but he quibbles about the numbers, which, in my opinion makes him a denier. He also believes that Auschwitz was primarily used as a prison for Catholic priests. (Oh yes, did I mention: He's a Catholic and a Polish patriot? But I'm sure that doesn't influence his reasoning.)

Really, as far as any rational argument goes, it was settled 60 years ago with the publication of Raul Hilberg's three-volume treatise, "The Destruction of European Jewry." Rationality, as everybody posting here knows, is not really relevant to the deniers.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:13 am

Other than the reference to Pressac, I am interested in the last entry.
It says :

73,137
This figure was reported in The New York Times on March 3, 1991 and was based entirely on the wartime German concentration camp records that had been captured by the Soviets and just recently released


It says "recently released records".
Do we know these records they speak of?

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Yeah, Pelt's Case is also a must-have. The camp history is even more comprehensive; it suffers from a kind of hyper-empiricism but it really has thorough coverage of the significant aspects of the camp, which can be supplemented with monographs from the museum on Monowitz and other sub camps; volumes of testimonies organized by themes; and individual studies of important topics, like the evacuation of the camp.


RJVP's book was easily the best account I have ever read of Auschwitz. His command of documentary sources and technical evidence puts every denier to shame. I don't believe that there can be such a thing as hyper empiricism when dealing with deniers - we mus beat them over the head with the facts.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:03 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:RJVP's book was easily the best account I have ever read of Auschwitz.

Have you read the museum's history? Not to knock Pelt in any way (his stuff is great), but it is really strong on an empirical level.

Jeff_36 wrote:I don't believe that there can be such a thing as hyper empiricism when dealing with deniers - we mus beat them over the head with the facts.

How did that work out with Trump, Conway, & Co? With most deniers, too, facts are kind of irrelevant to beliefs, speculation, biases, and "theories." Likewise, deniers generate "alternative facts." They reject or ignore evidence, no matter how hard they're hammered on the head with it. So I don't exactly agree.

But also, evidence needs to be explained by interpretations of why and how some things came to be whilst others didn't. NathanC is really, really good at doing this, showing time and again why certain denier claims are unlikely to the point of impossibility - because they don't explain the evidence and context.

A record of everyone executed in the Stammlager, when, by what means, on what charges, by which officials, etc also needs an explanatory frame to tell us why the Nazis were resorting to executions of these specific people, what that says about the character of Nazi rule and the opposition to it, how people came to be executed or to participate in executions, what they made of their situations, etc. That's what I mean. IMO deniers fall down equally on offering a credible alternative narrative as they do on their empirical misstatements and chicanery.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:02 pm

bump
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:29 pm

bump
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:30 am

Here Sergey Romanov critiques Weber, Rudolf, Hayward, Mattogno, and Butz on the issue of how many Jews not capable of work were in Auschwitz during summer 1943 (with a 2nd example in 1944). Among the authors whom Romanov excoriates are favorites of Monstrous (and Marydogz), so let's hear from them why Romanov is wrong.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:45 am

bump

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:44 pm

Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:58 pm

Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/

"Zyklon-B Deliveries to Auschwitz: Neither Proof nor Trace"

Hmmm... Thats odd, especially when the irritant was removed. So apparently the deliveries have no "trace" that implies mass murder according to our local idiot and Mattogno.

The "reserve stocks" of the PMO have cans of Zykon-B from both sources: Testa and Degesch (Dessauer Werke). Zyklon-B without irritant (ohne Reizstoff) was delivered by the Dessauer Werke as from August 1942. This was because a LACK of the warning agent generally used, a bromoacetic ester. The Degesch laboratory people, who had remained at Frankfurt, would have liked to replace it by a chlorinated carbon dioxide ester [methyl chloroformiate] with a suffocating effect, but the Friedburg management decided to produce Zyklon-B with no warning agent.
(Pressac, technique Page 17)
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:54 pm

Answer what you've been asked before trying to move on to new topics, troll.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:46 am

Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/



I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:08 am

No trace? I recall we discussed some of it here and the next post features a transport permit for material for Sonderbehandlung.
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:21 am

scrmbldggs wrote:No trace? I recall we discussed some of it here and the next post features a transport permit for material for Sonderbehandlung.


I'm going to look tomorrow, I think I have some documents that deal with that.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:56 am

Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

Apparently, and for no discernible reason, Monstrous refers to Il Re di Convoluzione as "the Maestro." Vad konstigt!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:00 pm

I cannot read it - this is no {!#%@} - I am in a Christian-run hotel in the evangelical boonies (Sharia law has been routed here, unlike in the big cities) and the hotel has filters on their Internet access: Codoh is identified as a Hate Site. Personally I'd identify it as an Asinine Site but either way, I can't open the page until I return home from this trip.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:33 pm

...Pressac... ...Pressac... ...Pressac...

Sad. So sad. So very, very sad.

Relying on this outdated and debunked author... The best the Believers can do on Auschwitz...

SENSITIVE DENIER WARNING! HH link!
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=14

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:37 pm

Another devastating blow to the false Believers!

Fresh from IH and Germar Rudolf!

"Kula’s Columns Revisited"

https://codoh.com/library/document/4215/
Last edited by Monstrous on Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:38 pm

And a video by Fred A. Leuchter and Jim Rizoli!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4228/

A really Monstrous trifecta!
Last edited by Monstrous on Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:51 pm

Monstrous wrote:...Pressac... ...Pressac... ...Pressac...

Sad. So sad. So very, very sad.

Relying on this outdated and debunked author... The best the Believers can do on Auschwitz...

SENSITIVE DENIER WARNING! HH link!
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=14



Monstrous, it's just another friggin' advert. I'm not going to download that silly book, why don't you just use your big boy words and summarize it for us?

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:58 pm

Monstrous wrote:Another devastating blow to the false Believers!

Fresh from IH and Germar Rudolf!

"Kula’s Columns Revisited"

https://codoh.com/library/document/4215/


Except that the devices themselves show up in an inventory:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150323222918/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430331-inventory/

Oh, good gosh golly, maybe you should read Pressac's book before spouting off about it.

Here, it's free and I'm not sending you a link for an advert:

http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:04 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Another devastating blow to the false Believers!

Fresh from IH and Germar Rudolf!

"Kula’s Columns Revisited"

https://codoh.com/library/document/4215/


Except that the devices themselves show up in an inventory:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150323222918/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430331-inventory/

Oh, good gosh golly, maybe you should read Pressac's book before spouting off about it.

Here, it's free and I'm not sending you a link for an advert:

http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/

Monstrous searched in the HH on Pelt who stole from Pressac
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php ... page_id=22

Monstrous found this on page 135!:

"As far as the order of March 11, 1943, is concerned, there exists also
a document in which a footnote marked Jäh[rling] and Kir[schneck]
states that it concerned “4 Stck. kompl. Anlagen” (4 pcs. complete de-
vices). 212 The sketch has not been preserved. The term “framework of
narrow-gauge rail” indicates a metal framework made of rails as used in
the narrow gauge railways found throughout the camp. The fact that the
devices had a cage of wire-mesh could possibly mean that they were
somehow “suspended” from the suspension device and guided by the
guide-rail. These devices are reminiscent of the mobile carts in disinfes-
tation gas chambers, on which were hung the garments to be disinfest-
ed, somewhat similar to the design shown in document 7, but covered
with wire-mesh. In the original document dated March 11, 1943, the
framework mentioned above follows immediately the “angle-iron
guide-rail,” i.e. a guide-rail made up of a right-angled iron profile,
which obviously was used for introduction of the framework itself. The
“suspension device” reminds us in a surprising manner of the
“Drahtnetzeinschiebevorrichtungen” (see chapter 2.5.3.), but the simi-
larity is merely superficial, because only one single device was ordered
for Crematorium II, not four, whereas four were ordered for Crematori-
um III, although the inventory of this crematorium at the time when it
was handed over to the camp administration does not mention the pres-
ence of any “Drahtnetzeinschiebevorrichtungen” at all. It is instead
possible that M. Kula had been inspired by these devices when he in-
vented the story about the Zyklon B introduction devices."


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