"they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Monstrous wrote:Why, they are in his books and articles. Also, rather technical, both sides...

This is easier to discuss:
https://codoh.com/library/document/4215/
Got it so monsters is ether to lazy to type them out for us or he's just doing his adverage strategy of avoiding direct contact against others arguments and just claiming they are bunk. Or maybe he just doesn't understand them.

Should be interesting to see when Blakes post will be accepted.

Minor edit: removing a period.
Last edited by Denying-History on Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:18 pm

I read this as saying that Monstrousbis incapable of summarizing these brilliant arguments. All righty then...
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I read this as saying that Monstrousbis incapable of summarizing these brilliant arguments. All righty then...
Exactly!
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:20 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/



I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

Only reply to the Maestro! Another revisionist victory!

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/


I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

Only reply to the Maestro! Another revisionist victory!
No the only thing discovered here is your inability to make a refutation. As for the technical aspects it should be interesting to see what Blake will post considering he loves the whole technical aspects of zyklon-b.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:32 pm

That's great but how about you summarize their argument and importance against what I have stated earlier?
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/



I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

Only reply to the Maestro! Another revisionist victory!


Uh, Monstrous, the records only go to April 1944. The mass killings of the Hungarian Jews ramped up during this period of time, ending in July of 1944. I'd need to see the records through that time period.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby blake121666 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:17 pm

Regarding what I will argue on these Zyklon technicalities, I'll give D-H a short answer: I agree with Germar Rudolf that these Prussian Blue issues are debatable and leave it at that. I think RODOH a better board for those type discussions.

The Auschwitz arguments more suitable for this board would be Rudolf's laymen arguments of Curated Lies:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 22&p=77498

As far as the Zyklon technical aspects go. The open argument is whether what is claimed to have been done (w.r.t. dosages and such) would have resulted in what is said to have occurred (timeframe of everyone being dead and such).

I don't find there to be knock-down arguments at present on these matters. And if any should be found to be the case, I am genuinely skeptical that most would even understand that.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:20 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/



I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

Only reply to the Maestro! Another revisionist victory!


Uh, Monstrous, the records only go to April 1944. The mass killings of the Hungarian Jews ramped up during this period of time, ending in July of 1944. I'd need to see the records through that time period.
The best part about the Hungarian murders is that Mattogno and Graf both claim it would have been impossible to kill and cremate them all yet they still cannot account for them.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:24 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Smokingly fresh from the Maestro himself!

WARNING: HH Material! Not for sensitive and feeble Believers! Monstrous knows that the Believers are scared of the HH and refuse to read them! They may be better served by sucking on some Soviet propaganda pamphlet or something!

https://codoh.com/library/document/4216/



I finally finished reading this. The records again look incomplete, especially for the Summer of 1944.

Only reply to the Maestro! Another revisionist victory!


Uh, Monstrous, the records only go to April 1944. The mass killings of the Hungarian Jews ramped up during this period of time, ending in July of 1944. I'd need to see the records through that time period.
The best part about the Hungarian murders is that Mattogno and Graf both claim it would have been impossible to kill and cremate them all yet they still cannot account for them.


I would think this would be easy. We are talking about a 3-4 months timespan with very few entry exit points for Jews sent directly to other KL's or taken to Auschwitz and then transported elsewhere.
We still have over 300,000 missing Hungarian Jews. No "East" to send them to.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:52 pm

I am wondering if Monstrous even bothered to read Hannovers source... Especially considering Germar claims a healthy human could withstand a concentration of 1% (10,000 ppm) for 5 minutes! This is complete unimaginable! Rudolfs model is also at 15*C, this is well to low considering that human body temperature is 37*C.

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

The OSHA wept! Especially considering the old 1 minute death concentration was 0.3%! As for the concentrations of which it would take to kill someone, according to Hathaway et al 1991, 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes.

Rudolf doesn't give the amount of cans or kg that would be used for disinfection, he does claim it would take ten times as much to kill the people in 10 minutes then was used in delousing. I view that we have no way to test this model. However if our well informed monster wants to give the amount in kg's we can make an accurate comparison.

We must therefore assume that the minimum amount of Zyklon B to be introduced in these rooms would have been in the order of magnitude of ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures, in order to reach a similar concentration already in the first 5 to 10 minutes of the execution even in the hindmost corner of that room.
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

So what limits are we looking at for the gassing of humans? 2 to 6 kilograms of Zyklon-b. (Broad said two cans of 1kg zyklon-b was used to kill 2000 people, Hoess stated that four 1.5 kg cans were used for gassing's)

Now as for this "ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures" argument, Richard Green has already layed it to rest in his Expert Report. (See p.30) If this is what our local idiot says "debunks" Richard Green then I am ashamed of our deniers.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:54 pm

Stepping back I wonder a) roughly how many Jews on b) roughly how many transports were brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau during c) roughly what time span, according to the "maestro's" butt wiper?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Stepping back I wonder a) roughly how many Jews on b) roughly how many transports were brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau during c) roughly what time span, according to the "maestro's" butt wiper?
Pipers article in reply to Meyers gives answers to the number of Jews sent to the camp if I remember correctly:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090705103625/http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334&Itemid=8

As for number of transports doesn't Pipers entery in anatomy deal with this? I have never bothered to read it but I wouldn't be shocked if it was in there somewhere.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:13 pm

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.


:rotfl:

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:18 pm

I guess if that healthy person REALLY, REALLY held his breath for five minutes.....


Of course, the issue is no matter how healthy someone is, it's really hard to control oneself in a room packed with other people that are panicking and stampeding over one another in an attempt to escape.

Good grief, is that for real?????

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:25 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I guess if that healthy person REALLY, REALLY held his breath for five minutes.....


Of course, the issue is no matter how healthy someone is, it's really hard to control oneself in a room packed with other people that are panicking and stampeding over one another in an attempt to escape.

Good grief, is that for real?????
Its been quite a while since I have read Auschwitz Lies... but I remember thinking to myself that Rudolfs retorts were quite weak...
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Denying-History wrote:
I am wondering if Monstrous even bothered to read Hannovers source... Especially considering Germar claims a healthy human could withstand a concentration of 1% (10,000 ppm) for 5 minutes! This is complete unimaginable! Rudolfs model is also at 15*C, this is well to low considering that human body temperature is 37*C.

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

The OSHA wept! Especially considering the old 1 minute death concentration was 0.3%! As for the concentrations of which it would take to kill someone, according to Hathaway et al 1991, 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes.

Sorry, reality win over any theory you have regarding hydrogen cyanide lethality, based on dubious animal experiments or whatever!

"Several hundreds of executions in the U.S.A. conducted with hydrogen cyanide have shown that a quick and painless execution by gas requires the co-operation of the intended victim. Prisoners about to be gassed were usually encouraged to inhale deeply as soon as the cyanide was released in order to make their deaths come easily. However, if an intended victim was uncooperative, the execution could easily become a fiasco. By simply refusing to take the deep breaths needed to quickly take in a lethal dose of cyanide, the agony – even under the most ideal conditions – could last for more than eighteen minutes. But even under normal circumstances, executions in U.S. execution gas chambers take in average some 10 to 14 Minutes.[36] The hydrogen cyanide concentration applied during these executions is usually similar to those applied during normal delousing procedures (0,3%-1%).[37] The victim is immediately exposed to very high concentration of the poison gas as it develops underneath him, rising right into his face."
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:51 pm

More for the ignorant Believers in Green

Richard Green and the Toxicology of Auschwitz
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7664

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:56 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
I am wondering if Monstrous even bothered to read Hannovers source... Especially considering Germar claims a healthy human could withstand a concentration of 1% (10,000 ppm) for 5 minutes! This is complete unimaginable! Rudolfs model is also at 15*C, this is well to low considering that human body temperature is 37*C.

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

The OSHA wept! Especially considering the old 1 minute death concentration was 0.3%! As for the concentrations of which it would take to kill someone, according to Hathaway et al 1991, 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes.

Sorry, reality win over any theory you have regarding hydrogen cyanide lethality, based on dubious animal experiments or whatever!

"Several hundreds of executions in the U.S.A. conducted with hydrogen cyanide have shown that a quick and painless execution by gas requires the co-operation of the intended victim. Prisoners about to be gassed were usually encouraged to inhale deeply as soon as the cyanide was released in order to make their deaths come easily. However, if an intended victim was uncooperative, the execution could easily become a fiasco. By simply refusing to take the deep breaths needed to quickly take in a lethal dose of cyanide, the agony – even under the most ideal conditions – could last for more than eighteen minutes. But even under normal circumstances, executions in U.S. execution gas chambers take in average some 10 to 14 Minutes.[36] The hydrogen cyanide concentration applied during these executions is usually similar to those applied during normal delousing procedures (0,3%-1%).[37] The victim is immediately exposed to very high concentration of the poison gas as it develops underneath him, rising right into his face."
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html



A few things on that Monstrous:
The SS didn't care about "painless."
Also, there is no comparison between executing one person and executing 1000. Or 2000. By the time the SS lowered the ZB down the victims inside were already displacing the available oxygen. So, you have rising levels of Carbon Dioxide, diminishing levels of oxygen and rising levels of HCN.
None of this is applicable to a single person strapped to a chair in an airtight room. Sorry, it's a really silly argument because there is no comparison between the two.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
I am wondering if Monstrous even bothered to read Hannovers source... Especially considering Germar claims a healthy human could withstand a concentration of 1% (10,000 ppm) for 5 minutes! This is complete unimaginable! Rudolfs model is also at 15*C, this is well to low considering that human body temperature is 37*C.

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

The OSHA wept! Especially considering the old 1 minute death concentration was 0.3%! As for the concentrations of which it would take to kill someone, according to Hathaway et al 1991, 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes.

Sorry, reality win over any theory you have regarding hydrogen cyanide lethality, based on dubious animal experiments or whatever!

"Several hundreds of executions in the U.S.A. conducted with hydrogen cyanide have shown that a quick and painless execution by gas requires the co-operation of the intended victim. Prisoners about to be gassed were usually encouraged to inhale deeply as soon as the cyanide was released in order to make their deaths come easily. However, if an intended victim was uncooperative, the execution could easily become a fiasco. By simply refusing to take the deep breaths needed to quickly take in a lethal dose of cyanide, the agony – even under the most ideal conditions – could last for more than eighteen minutes. But even under normal circumstances, executions in U.S. execution gas chambers take in average some 10 to 14 Minutes.[36] The hydrogen cyanide concentration applied during these executions is usually similar to those applied during normal delousing procedures (0,3%-1%).[37] The victim is immediately exposed to very high concentration of the poison gas as it develops underneath him, rising right into his face."
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html



A few things on that Monstrous:
The SS didn't care about "painless."
Also, there is no comparison between executing one person and executing 1000. Or 2000. By the time the SS lowered the ZB down the victims inside were already displacing the available oxygen. So, you have rising levels of Carbon Dioxide, diminishing levels of oxygen and rising levels of HCN.
None of this is applicable to a single person strapped to a chair in an airtight room. Sorry, it's a really silly argument because there is no comparison between the two.

Dropping VERY SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B into a few places in a very large chamber would of course make the death time much longer. Contrast that with an execution chamber that pushes very high concentration hydrogen cyanide (NO SLOW RELEASE) directly into the face of the prisoner from the start.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:07 pm

Monstrous wrote:More for the ignorant Believers in Green

Richard Green and the Toxicology of Auschwitz
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7664


Again, no mention made of the difference between one, two four or a thousand people.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:08 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Stepping back I wonder a) roughly how many Jews on b) roughly how many transports were brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau during c) roughly what time span, according to the "maestro's" butt wiper?
Pipers article in reply to Meyers gives answers to the number of Jews sent to the camp if I remember correctly:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090705103625/http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334&Itemid=8

As for number of transports doesn't Pipers entery in anatomy deal with this? I have never bothered to read it but I wouldn't be shocked if it was in there somewhere.

Actually I know the answers to these questions - and you, sir, bear zero resemblance to the "maestro's" butt wiper. :) I am interested in what Monstrous has to say about this, to baseline, as it were, his imaginings.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:10 pm

Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.
Last edited by Denying-History on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:11 pm

. . . meanwhile none of the "Believers" wants to discuss Auschwitz LOL
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:20 pm

Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:22 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
I am wondering if Monstrous even bothered to read Hannovers source... Especially considering Germar claims a healthy human could withstand a concentration of 1% (10,000 ppm) for 5 minutes! This is complete unimaginable! Rudolfs model is also at 15*C, this is well to low considering that human body temperature is 37*C.

as it is very well possible that a smart and healthy human can survive a 5 minute exposure to 1% of hydrogen cyanide.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

The OSHA wept! Especially considering the old 1 minute death concentration was 0.3%! As for the concentrations of which it would take to kill someone, according to Hathaway et al 1991, 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes.

Sorry, reality win over any theory you have regarding hydrogen cyanide lethality, based on dubious animal experiments or whatever!

"Several hundreds of executions in the U.S.A. conducted with hydrogen cyanide have shown that a quick and painless execution by gas requires the co-operation of the intended victim. Prisoners about to be gassed were usually encouraged to inhale deeply as soon as the cyanide was released in order to make their deaths come easily. However, if an intended victim was uncooperative, the execution could easily become a fiasco. By simply refusing to take the deep breaths needed to quickly take in a lethal dose of cyanide, the agony – even under the most ideal conditions – could last for more than eighteen minutes. But even under normal circumstances, executions in U.S. execution gas chambers take in average some 10 to 14 Minutes.[36] The hydrogen cyanide concentration applied during these executions is usually similar to those applied during normal delousing procedures (0,3%-1%).[37] The victim is immediately exposed to very high concentration of the poison gas as it develops underneath him, rising right into his face."
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html



A few things on that Monstrous:
The SS didn't care about "painless."
Also, there is no comparison between executing one person and executing 1000. Or 2000. By the time the SS lowered the ZB down the victims inside were already displacing the available oxygen. So, you have rising levels of Carbon Dioxide, diminishing levels of oxygen and rising levels of HCN.
None of this is applicable to a single person strapped to a chair in an airtight room. Sorry, it's a really silly argument because there is no comparison between the two.

Dropping VERY SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B into a few places in a very large chamber would of course make the death time much longer. Contrast that with an execution chamber that pushes very high concentration hydrogen cyanide (NO SLOW RELEASE) directly into the face of the prisoner from the start.


Slow release???? Monstrous, as the room heats the pellets would release their HCN faster. Also, humans need oxygen to survive, the victims inside were fighting the loss of oxygen, rising levels of Carbon Dioxide and HCN.
Why is this so hard to understand? The SS deliberately packed these rooms full of victims so that the rooms would warm up quickly and the oxygen displace quickly. It didn't matter how long it took, frankly I could care less about the time differentials between the various witnesses. It's irrelevant because it is based on too many variables beyond the witnesses control, not the least of which was the stress levels of those involved. It's denier jibber jabber.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:25 pm

Ahem, little fella, background & context, what are we talking about here? About how many Jews on how many transports during what time frame do you believe were brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!


Except that those CODOH threads only look at data for one or two people. CODOH lose.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:31 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!
Germar cited sources in response to Van Pelt, not Richard Green. Green responded to Germars comments something which you seemed to have missed, to which I request a source which shows a human can survive under concentrations of 10,000 ppms for 5 minutes.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!


Except that those CODOH threads only look at data for one or two people. CODOH lose.

A single person surviving 20 minutes in an American execution chamber is enough to demolish claims such as all of the thousands in an Auschwitz gas chamber dying in less than 5 minutes despite using SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B in a few places in a vast chamber.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Ahem. Chicken.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:43 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!


Except that those CODOH threads only look at data for one or two people. CODOH lose.

A single person surviving 20 minutes in an American execution chamber is enough to demolish claims such as all of the thousands in an Auschwitz gas chamber dying in less than 5 minutes despite using SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B in a few places in a vast chamber.



No, Monstrous, because you aren't talking about one person, you are talking about 1000. Or 1500.
Or 2000. Even without an artificial heating source that amount of people is going to cause the temperature of the room to rise, causing the HCN to release faster. I'm not going to talk about the other conditions in the room because I already have, except that Germar Rudolf doesn't understand how basic human biology works.

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:46 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!


Except that those CODOH threads only look at data for one or two people. CODOH lose.

A single person surviving 20 minutes in an American execution chamber is enough to demolish claims such as all of the thousands in an Auschwitz gas chamber dying in less than 5 minutes despite using SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B in a few places in a vast chamber.
Well the idiot continues to claim it's slow release despite the fact that 10% of zyklon-b evaporates at tempatures of 15*C. He is correct that people have been inside American gas chambers for twenty minutes one name for example is Walter LaGrand. However it's possible that he may have been dead before the end of his 18 minute gassing. This timespan also fits witness testimony at Auschwitz considering that tempatures in the gas chambers ranged close to 30*C well over zyklons bloiling point. However against the idiots claim doesn't always stand as truth either, Jimmy Lee Gray was murdered inside of an American gas chamber in under 2 minutes, something which should stand out considering Hoess estimated 3-15 minutes depending on multiple variables (such as weather, the wind, and quality of the gas) during one of his interrogations. Against Rudolfs claims though Leuchter states that American gas chambers use 3,200 ppm not 10,000 ppm so we again don't have a record of someone surviving for 5 minutes under concentrations of 1%.

This is my last response until you answer SM, I would advise Jeff to stop feeding the idiot material as well.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:53 pm

I must say that I have figured out the disconnect between you guys and Monstrous on the chemistry and biology of this: you guys apparently studied at "mainstream" "Believer" universities, at which mainstream sciences are taught, whilst Monstrous got his degree in chemistry and biology from Mattogno Community College - home of "i propagandisti contorti" - which offers a special course of study on the lies and coverups of "academic" science, which has been contrived, with Jewish influence through the decades, to support a false Holocaust narrative.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:09 pm

Believer Guru Pressac:

"Irving was unaware that there was a vast difference between the amount of cyanide gas needed to kill one person (120mg/m³), and the amount needed to kill a roomful of people in minutes. The Believer-researcher Jean-Claude Pressac calculated the amount of cyanide gas that would have been used in the “gas chamber,”: “Concentration used in homicidal gassing in Birkenau: 12g/m³ (1%), or 40 times the lethal (or mortal) dose."
https://codoh.com/library/document/4101/

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:13 pm

>> This is my last response until you answer SM, I would advise Jeff to stop feeding the idiot material as well.

So now the little guy is simply trolling.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:20 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Hmmm that's great monstrous. If you want to talk about the concentrations of gas then let's talk. For people a concentration of 0.3 g/m^3 is immediately fatal, for lice you need an exposure of 5 g/m^3 and this can take up to 6 hours notice a difference? At Birkenau the Germans utilized 12-20 g/m^3 meaning a concentration that is 40 to 70% higher for periods of 3 to 15 minutes.

Green estimates that "[b]ased upon the estimate given above that the amount of Zyklon used was between 5 and 20 g/cubic meter (4500-18,100 ppm), a conservative estimate is that the victims were exposed to 450-1810 ppm within 5 to 15 minutes, or between 2.5 and 10 times the LC50 estimate given above. This estimate depends on the chambers being only 15 °C."

Now talking about Germars argument that a person can survive for 5 minutes under a concentration of 10,000pmm it's your job to find a source. Germar cites nothing in support of his claim.

Germar cited numerous sources on what the REALITY shows regarding human exposure to hydrogen cyanide in execution chambers. Not theory, not animal experiments!

Green cites sources that at best cite old animal experimental data, more or less valueless regarding human toxicity, as demonstrated in the Codoh threads.

Green lose!!!


Except that those CODOH threads only look at data for one or two people. CODOH lose.

A single person surviving 20 minutes in an American execution chamber is enough to demolish claims such as all of the thousands in an Auschwitz gas chamber dying in less than 5 minutes despite using SLOW-RELEASE Zyklon B in a few places in a vast chamber.
Well the idiot continues to claim it's slow release despite the fact that 10% of zyklon-b evaporates at tempatures of 15*C. He is correct that people have been inside American gas chambers for twenty minutes one name for example is Walter LaGrand. However it's possible that he may have been dead before the end of his 18 minute gassing. This timespan also fits witness testimony at Auschwitz considering that tempatures in the gas chambers ranged close to 30*C well over zyklons bloiling point. However against the idiots claim doesn't always stand as truth either, Jimmy Lee Gray was murdered inside of an American gas chamber in under 2 minutes, something which should stand out considering Hoess estimated 3-15 minutes depending on multiple variables (such as weather, the wind, and quality of the gas) during one of his interrogations. Against Rudolfs claims though Leuchter states that American gas chambers use 3,200 ppm not 10,000 ppm so we again don't have a record of someone surviving for 5 minutes under concentrations of 1%.

This is my last response until you answer SM, I would advise Jeff to stop feeding the idiot material as well.


Sorry, can't help it. Monstrous is fun when he crawls out of his denier dungeon and I'm waiting for Blake to pop up.
But, I'll let the little fella stew fer a bit.
:D

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:22 pm

Maybe my question to him was too hard - I don't believe he took "Revisionist Rithmetic" at Mattogno CC.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Monstrous » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:24 pm

You Believers understand that there is an endless deluge of revisionist criticisms of Auschwitz? The Zyklon B debacle is just the small icing.

Some examples.

The Lies, Slips, Bungles and Perjuries of Filip Mueller, Professional Witness of Auschwitz-Birkenau
http://codoh.com/library/document/635/

Smoking Crematory Chimney at Auschwitz: A Correction
http://codoh.com/library/document/3083/

The Factory of Death at Auschwitz, The First Press Report From Auschwitz
http://codoh.com/library/document/884/

"Cremation Pits" and Ground Water Levels at Birkenau
http://codoh.com/library/document/1426/

The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau
http://codoh.com/library/document/921/

Dr. Mengele's "Medical Experiments" on Twins in the Birkenau Gypsy Cam
http://codoh.com/library/document/3223/

The Morgues of the Crematoria at Birkenau in the Light of Documents
http://codoh.com/library/document/1713/

Run back to the EG!!!


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