"they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
Sergey_Romanov
Regular Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:15 am

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 am

Based on Honey's estimates:
16th May 6369 5542 87,0%
17th May 3055 2536 83,0%
18th May 14083 11427 81,1%
19th May 9859 6591 66,9%
20th May 10123 5835 57,6%
21st May 15795 11905 75,4%
22nd May 12812 8819 68,8%
23rd May 12438 9662 77,7%
24th May 13112 8707 66,4%
25th May 15588 10745 68,9%
26th May 16074 10264 63,9%
27th May 15850 10116 63,8%
28th May 30633 22546 73,6%
30th May 7247 4767 65,8%
31st May 10022 6668 66,5%
1st June 16332 11627 71,2%
2nd June 12505 8649 69,2%
3rd June 12394 8399 67,8%
4th June 11539 7953 68,9%
5th June 8632 5984 69,3%
6th June 11343 7641 67,4%
7th June 10109 7133 70,6%
8th June 4459 3318 74,4%
9th June 3148 1974 62,7%
10th June 1163 814 70,0%
11th June 1447 756 52,2%
12th June 9114 8921 97,9%
13th June 8426 7729 91,7%
14th June 8911 7518 84,4%
15th June 10932 8601 78,7%
16th June 5507 4650 84,4%
17th June 10607 8622 81,3%
18th June 3160 2309 73,1%
26th June 3006 2470 82,2%
27th June 3199 2747 85,9%
28th June 3842 3838 99,9%
29th June 12316 10495 85,2%
1st July 7854 6655 84,7%
7th July 9258 7481 80,8%
8th July 12108 8797 72,7%
9th July 11427 9837 86,1%
10th July 12206 9878 80,9%
11th July 5003 3249 64,9%
22nd July 4390 3588 81,7%
25th July 3160 3156 99,9%

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 20954
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:18 am

Thanks, Sergey. That's why in my post on this I used the word "theoretical" pertaining to daily totals, because the 25% deemed "fit" is an average number and, as your list shows, it doesn't account for daily variations, which skew towards more deemed "fit" in the earlier period, when the larger numbers per day were arriving at the camp.

Your daily list shows that blake hasn't done the maths. Blake wrote that "The Auschwitz claim is that over 11,000 corpses per day were incinerated somehow" - without a reference; blake's claimed daily average, which none of us here seem to agree with, was met, if my quick count is right, exactly 4 times out of the 50+ days of the operation.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 20954
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:21 am

blake121666 wrote:I have yet to see a list which isn't similar to Balsamo's. Here is Death trains in 1944: the Kassa list

Where are your new and improved lists? Does anyone but you agree with these new and improved lists? How new and how improved are these lists? Let's see them.

blake, Stark's book and Braham's study have been available for years. Although they don't contain daily lists, they both have enough information to show that 12,000 arrivals per day and 11,000 gassed per day are overestimates. You would have to tell us why you haven't seen them.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 20954
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:26 am

blake121666 wrote:Ok, let's look at Balsamo's post on that other thread
Balsamo wrote:16th May : 13.963 people are counted as "killed"
17th may: 8.841
18th May : 8.917
19th May : 8.772
20th May : 6.620
21th May : 9.662


. . . I typically read historians claiming that about 12,000 Hungarian Jews per day were sent to Auschwitz for many consecutive days - 90% of whom were immediately killed and cremated. . . .

Balsamo sampled days from the peak early phase, mentioned by Braham, and, as Sergey wrote in the other thread, there are issues with the sample used. You are generalizing from this dubious base to every day of the operation.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 20954
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:42 am

Hans' adjusted figures show 5 days where blake's claimed average number killed were met.

blake seems determined to maintain the 3 denier fallacies which Hans already pointed out - overestimating daily arrivals, underestimating the number deemed fit for labor, and minimizing the outdoor cremations.

(I just noticed that blake did after all take up the question he asked in this thread in the Technical Gibberish thread where he had at first demurred. I suggest therefore keeping the discussion in the Technical Gibberish thread so as not to have two discussions of the same issue going on.)
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Balsamo » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:06 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
blake121666 wrote:Ok, let's look at Balsamo's post on that other thread
Balsamo wrote:16th May : 13.963 people are counted as "killed"
17th may: 8.841
18th May : 8.917
19th May : 8.772
20th May : 6.620
21th May : 9.662


. . . I typically read historians claiming that about 12,000 Hungarian Jews per day were sent to Auschwitz for many consecutive days - 90% of whom were immediately killed and cremated. . . .

Balsamo sampled days from the peak early phase, mentioned by Braham, and, as Sergey wrote in the other thread, there are issues with the sample used. You are generalizing from this dubious base to every day of the operation.


Yes, my mistake...
but as i wrote in the other thread...the new numbers do not really help solve the logistic issue during the peak phase.
I don't know where Blake got his 11.000 (or 12.000) number and why he sticks to them by the way.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 20954
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:11 pm

He is of the mind that being asked about that is "pedantic bickering."
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

User avatar
Oozy_Substance
Poster
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:48 am

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Oozy_Substance » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:33 am

Just sharing some thoughts with you.
The Nazis exterminated the vast majority of Greek Jewry by sending Greece's Jews to Auschwitz.

I think this is quite a problem for deniers because :

1) Why would the Nazis put so much effort to transport tens of thousands of Jews from Southern-Europe (Greece) to Northern Europe (Poland)? If it's about re-settlement at somewhere else they could have shipped them off by boats to nearby Turkey or the Jewish Yishuv in Palestine.

2) If the Greek Jews were re-settled somewhere in Poland or Russia, it should be very easy to locate them. Tens of thousands of Greek-speaking Jews amid a Slavic population is not hard to locate and find.

3) Since 85%-90% to Greek Jews were exterminated, the deniers can't ignore it, they need to give an answer were did they all go to.

So I think that the extermination of Greek Jews is a hard bone in denier throat.

Sergey_Romanov
Regular Poster
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:15 am

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 am

Same applies to most other Jews.

nickterry
Regular Poster
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby nickterry » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:35 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:Just sharing some thoughts with you.
The Nazis exterminated the vast majority of Greek Jewry by sending Greece's Jews to Auschwitz.

I think this is quite a problem for deniers because :

1) Why would the Nazis put so much effort to transport tens of thousands of Jews from Southern-Europe (Greece) to Northern Europe (Poland)? If it's about re-settlement at somewhere else they could have shipped them off by boats to nearby Turkey or the Jewish Yishuv in Palestine.

2) If the Greek Jews were re-settled somewhere in Poland or Russia, it should be very easy to locate them. Tens of thousands of Greek-speaking Jews amid a Slavic population is not hard to locate and find.

3) Since 85%-90% to Greek Jews were exterminated, the deniers can't ignore it, they need to give an answer were did they all go to.

So I think that the extermination of Greek Jews is a hard bone in denier throat.


Deniers don't think about the Holocaust in geographical terms such as nation or region, so most of them aren't aware or don't care that Greek Jews were deported. Greek deniers might care slightly more, but the other denier authors really say very little about specific actions or national waves of deportations. 'Jews' remain an abstraction for them, the Holocaust consists of the extermination camps only. If one is properly aware of the pan-European extent of the Holocaust, e.g. from reading any decent overview, then one is almost never a denier.

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Balsamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:42 pm

Nick Terry
Deniers don't think about the Holocaust in geographical terms


That would be too much too ask.
Actually they do not think about the Holocaust at all.
They are too busy denying it.

BornAgainDisciple
New Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby BornAgainDisciple » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Some deniers actually do think in in geographical terms.
They are trying to say that some people were deported and transited and transited and transited...
And where did they go? What is their whereabouts? Why do they have so many names?
Where were some survivors liberated?
Like they ask with Irene Zegelstein/Weisberg/Zisblatt and so on...
טוב להיות זנב לאריות מאשר ראש לשועלים

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Denying-History » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:38 pm

I think Balsamo has the general aspect down, outside the fact they do think about it - its generally they know nothing about it.
Born I thin you are kinda confused as well by what Terry meant... They don't think in such terms, obviously considering they had no reason for the mass deportation from Greece. It was a far off land and only makes one wonder further why other "transit" stations were not set up in allied (to Germany) countries like Romania. It makes no sense to transit Jews from Greece to Poland to only have them settled the same distance into Russia. Its a waste of resources - one that is even dumber then the "fuel shortage" argument deniers toss around.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8244
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:41 am

BornAgainDisciple wrote:Some deniers actually do think in in geographical terms.
They are trying to say that some people were deported and transited and transited and transited...
And where did they go? What is their whereabouts? Why do they have so many names?
Where were some survivors liberated?
Like they ask with Irene Zegelstein/Weisberg/Zisblatt and so on...


I find they struggle with how events unfolded and slotting things in a proper chronological order. It’s like they think this whole thing happened in some splendid vacuum.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
Edith Baneth
Savage Continent

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8244
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: "they never discuss Auschwitz. Probably because it is so obviously a hoax."

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:32 pm

Just because, some overhead shots by USAAF:


Image

Image


Image



Image
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
Edith Baneth
Savage Continent


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests