Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

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BRoI
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:20 am

Thanks for posting that Hans.

A question posed by the statement of Gustav Wegerer purportedly dated "23 April 1945" applies equally to this statement of Friedrich Wilhelm: Why wasn't it sent to the IMT in January 1946 when Thomas Dodd was desperately hunting for evidence to validate the human-skin charges?

I've other points regarding Wilhelm's affidavit I'll detail later, but he did claim to have seen a human-skin lampshade during his testimony as a defendant at the Buchenwald trial [sentence: death]:

22 July 1947, p.4447 wrote:
Q [Prosecution]. Now while you were at Buchenwald isn't it a fact that you had occasion to go down into the section of the camp where they performed autopsies?

A [Friedrich Wilhelm]. Yes, I was there once.

Q. And you saw, did you not, the lamp shade there that was made out of human skin?

A. That wasn't in the autopsy [sic].

Q. Where was it?

A. It was in the bacteriological department.

Q. Well what happened to that lamp shade?

A. I don't know that.

Q. Well, did you ever know?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever see what happened to it?

A. It was talk [sic] that SS Colonel Koch got it.

Q. Now did you ever see it?

A. Yes, I saw it, but whether this was the same one which SS Colonel Koch was supposed to get I can't tell you because I didn't see that he got it.


22 July 1947, p.4469 wrote:
EXAMINATION BY THE COURT

QUESTIONS BY THE LAW MEMBER:

Q. You have testified that you have seen a lampshade made out of human skin. Will you describe that lampshade?

A [Friedrich Wilhelm]. The lampshade wasn't finished yet. The lamp was made up already and around the lamp there was skin.

Q. Were there any markings on the skin?

A. Yes.

Q. What were they?

A. I cannot remember it anymore.

Q. While you were at Buchenwald did you see any other objects made of human skin?

A. No.

Q. What did the base of the lamp look like?

A. Only the frame was there. The base wasn't ready yet.

PRESIDENT: No further questions.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:49 am

Hans wrote:
"In der Pathologie arbeiteten unter Kochs Zeiten Dr. NAUMANN, SS-Ustf., und Dr. LEWE, SS-UStuf. Der Truppenarzt Dr. MÜLLER, SS-OSTUF., kam häufig ins Laboratorium, um dieses zu benutzen. Unter seiner Direktion oder vielleicht auch von ihm selbst wurde ein Lampenschirm aus Menschenhaut angefertigt, welcher dem Kommandanten Koch, sei es für ihn selbst oder seiiner Frau zum Geschenk übergeben wurde. Dieser Vorgang wurde mir von Häftlingen mitgeteilt."


(affidavit of Friedrich Wilhelm [SS paramedic] of 9 July 1945, BArch B 162/805, p. 63)


It seems as if this affidavit has changed over the years. Originally it was dated 12 July 1945, and stated the lampshade was given to Pister, perhaps for his wife. But your version says it was given to Koch, perhaps for his wife!

TESTIMONY OF FRIEDRICH WILHELM

Friedrich Wilhelm, one of the accused, testified by deposition (Pros. ex. 79A R. 5589) that "During Koch's time and until about the middle of 1942, Dr. Naumann, * * *, Dr. Lewe, * * *, were in charge of the pathology department. Then Dr. Shiedlausky was put in charge of that department. A Kapo named Wegerer or Wegener also join the department at that occasion and stayed there until he was arrest in December 1944 or January 1945." Under the direction of Dr. Mueller, an SS officer who used the pathological laboratory frequently, "or maybe by himself, a lampshade out of human skin was made and was given to Pister or his wife as a present." The witness heard about this from the prisoners. On the stand, the accused Wilhelm testified that he had seen an unfinished lamp shade made of human skin. There were "markings" on the skin but the witness could not remember what they were. The witness did not know what the base of the lamp looked like, for "the base wasn't ready, yet" (R. 4469). He had seen the lamp shade in the "bateriological department." "There was talk the Colonel Koch got it" (R. 4447).

- US Senate Hearing r.e. Ilse Koch, p.1266


"Pros. ex. 79A R. 5589" was an English translation of a statement by Friedrich Wilhelm, dated 12 July 1945, made in Freising. Wilhelm stated that he only gave one statement in Freising [German original: Pros. ex. 79 [transcript p.4447-8].

Another Wilhelm statement was submitted to the trial: Prosecution Exhibit 78 [trans. 78A] given at Dachau on 5 March 1947 [p.4446].

Unfortunately, the exhibits aren't available online, only the transcript.
Last edited by BRoI on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:08 am

Hans

Does the version you saw in the BA also state that Wegerer didn't join the PD until after Schiedlausky came to Buchenwald [October 1943]?
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:08 am

Since this statement was likely made under torture, its content is of limited value anyway. Friedrich Wilhelm's statements during the trial are thus more important, but also less clear.
Last edited by Sergey_Romanov on Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Hans » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:09 am

BroI,

The 18 page affidavit of Wilhelm is dated 9 July 1945, Freising. There is an 1 page addendum dated 12 July 1945 (not relevant for the issue here).

On Wegerer it reads:
"In der Pathologie arbeiteten unter Kochs Zeiten bis zu Pisters Zeit Dr. NAUMANN, SS-Ustuf., und Dr. LEWE, SS-Ustuf., bis ca. Mitte 1942. Dann wurde die Pathologie Dr. Schiedlauski unterstellt. Bei dieser Gelegenheit übernahm der Kapo WEGENER die Pathologie und blieb bis zu seiner Verhaftung bis zu Dezember 1944 oder Januar 1945."

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:55 pm

Another SS confession........Franz Ziereis confirmed that human-skin goods were produced at Gusen in draft versions of his death-bed confession:

Record of the statements taken from the previous commander of Concentration Camps - Mauthausen-Gusen-Linz etc. wrote:
The majority of the murdered first few thousand prisoners were killed by SS Haupsturnfuhrer Bachmayer in the Camp Mauthausen. Likewise and even many were killed by Campfuhrer Seidler at Gusen. The Seddler and Chmielowski had the skin (from the murdered bodies) prepared and made into sachels, lamp covers, bookcover, etc., I did not prepare anything for me because later it was forbidden by Berlin. (Editors note - Beastly considerate of them, wasn't it.)
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 am

Interesting. A more precise sourcing would be appreciated.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:47 am

The Sidney Etkin collection contains documents and photographs obtained by Capt. Sidney Etkin, a medical officer sent to Mauthausen-Gusen to treat prisoners. Arriving in June, 1945, shortly after the camp was liberated by the Third United States Army, Etkin took several photographs of the camp, prisoners, and dead bodies to document the atrocities which took place there. In addition, Etkin acquired documents containing the recorded statements of Franz Ziereis, the commandant of Mauthausen. The statements go into great detail about the atrocities which took place at the camp. Also included is a newspaper clipping summarizing Ziereis’ role as camp commandant.

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn501228#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=26&xywh=39%2C449%2C504%2C321



Items in the collection contradict the story that it was former-inmates who hung Ziereis's body on the fence after stealing his body from the morgue. Etkin claims American soldiers did it:

Image
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn501228#?c=2&m=0&s=0&cv=5&xywh=-101%2C0%2C1254%2C800

Image

The caption to a missing photo is very interesting:

Image
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn501228#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=49&xywh=352%2C596%2C350%2C223


A US Army report I found elsewhere utterly destroys the given story of Ziereis' 24 May confession[s]. He wasn't even captured until 29 May:

HEADQUARTERS
US GROUP C C
LEGAL DIVISION
APO 742

14 June 1945
SUBJECT: Review of Activities, TD First and Third US Armies, 27 April 45 to 1 June 45.
TO: Commanding General, Headquarters, U.S. Group C C, APO 742, US Army

[...]

29. 29 May 45. Drove to Ebensee to assist Lt. Sturgis in completing his assignment. On this date, Franz Ziereis, who was the SS Commandant from the Camps Mauthausen, Gusen 1 and 2, and other camps was apprehended at Spital-am-Prim, in company with his twelve-year-old son, Siegfried. During the arrest of Ziereis, he was seriously wounded. He and his son were both returned to the Camp Gusen Hospital, where both were questioned. Franz Ziereis died that afternoon. CIC has the statements of Franz Ziereis (A copy of G-2 Periodic Report, dated 30 May 45 concerning Siegfried Ziereis is attached as Appendix "N").

[...]
ALLEN B. MITCHELL
Colonel GSC
A/Chief, Prisons Branch

http://ecc.pima.edu/~gusen/AG254/2.pdf


Found here: http://ecc.pima.edu/~gusen/Record_Group_260.htm
Record Group 260
Records of the US Occupation Headquarters World War II
NARA explanation of this record group may be found at
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/260.html

Adjutant General File 254 Detention and Internment Camps USGCC
Record Group 260 39 40 17 02
NOTE: This file is presented in the order in which it was found. Appendices described and identified as A through K and Q were not found in this file.

[...]

14 June 1945 Review of Activities Report: TD First and Third Armies 27 April 45 to 1 June 45 From Headquarters US Group CC Legal Division. Signed: Col. Allen B. Mitchell, Acting Chief, Prisons Branch
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:46 pm

Considering that it's a single summary report made weeks after the events, further elaboration is necessary beyond "dates don't match". Do the details match? Is there further corroboration of the date in the report?

---

https://www.archives.gov/files/publicat ... rip115.pdf

The journal of the XII Corps Medical Section (212­26.1), May 6–20, 1945,
provides a useful, detailed overview of immediate relief efforts at
Mauthausen. Included are hourly reports of the movement to Mauthausen
of medical personnel and supplies, typhus and delousing teams, and camp
inspectors and reports of the 11th Armored Division surgeon on hospital
patients, types of communicable diseases, medical supplies and shortages,
and hospital setups. Also included are miscellaneous sanitation reports for
Mauthausen and Gusen, May 9–16, 1945. Operations reports for the 131st
Evacuation Hospital, May 9–June 15, 1945 (MDEH­131­01), provide
detailed daily narratives of medical conditions, facilities, and treatment
at the Mauthausen main camp, Gusen I and II, and “the Quarry Camp.”
During the month of operations, an estimated 4,000 patients of 22 different
nationalities were hospitalized. Entries for May 23–24 document
the capture of Franz Ziereis, the Commandant of Mauthausen, by former
camp inmates and his death (allegedly by suicide) at the Gusen I
evacuation hospital.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:18 pm

The logbook shows that the summary report was mistaken:

http://www.company7.com/bosendorfer/gra ... 800558.jpg

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:37 am

In 1942, the Nazi leadership's favourite Vienna newspaper was dubious of American claims about a shrunken head.

Neuigkeits-Welt-Blatt, 10 October 1942, p.5 wrote:
Die Haare der Mumie waren - gewachsen

Basel: In einem Museum für Völkerkunde in New York hat man die fast unglaubliche Entdeckung gemacht, daß die Haare einer Mumie die im Jahre 1916 genau gemessen worden waren, in der Zwischenzeit, d. h. innerhalb 26 Jahren, um volle zwölf Zentimeter gewachsen waren. Es handelt sich um einen Schrumpfkopf, wie ihn gewisse sürdamerikanische Indianerstämme aus den Schädeln ihrer toten Feinde herstellen. Man steht vor einem medizinischen.
Rätsel. (tc)
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Hans » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:04 am

BRoI wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:1) try the original German version of the book;

The English edition is the original, a German translation was published in 2017 with a few revisions etc.
Die englischsprachige Originalausgabe dieses Buches erschien 2015 unter dem Titel Konrad Morgen. The Conscience of a Nazi Judge bei Palgrave Macmillan (London/New York). Der Text wurde für die deutsche Ausgabe überarbeitet und um die theoretische Einleitung ergänzt; auch das Nachwort wurde für die vorliegende Ausgabe erweitert.

https://www.amazon.de/%C2%BBWeil-ich-nun-Gerechtigkeitsfanatiker-bin%C2%AB/dp/3518425994

How does the relevant text differ in the German edition?

Does the lie/mistake that Wiebeck's shitty 1955 German translation of Elonore Hodys' statement is "the German original" [endnote 3 for chapter 17], also feature in the German edition, or have they corrected themselves?

Does the German version also state that Dirlewanger admitted to killing Jews with lethal injections?

H. Pauer-Studer, J. Velleman, Konrad Morgen, The Conscience of a Nazi Judge, endnote 11 for Chapter 6 wrote:
11. A copious file of the case survives, containing mainly documents for the defense, including the recommendation for dismissal. That recommendation confirms that Morgen reported accusations against Dirlewanger, though in the course of a different prosecution (ODD, memo signed Fritz Schmidt, dated October 17, 1942, p. 4). Remarkably, Dirlewanger admitted to the gravest acts, offering justifications rather than denials. He claimed, for example, that he killed Jews by injection because he had been ordered to kill them and reasoned that shooting would ruin their clothes, which would then be useless to his men.

ODD - Oskar Dirlewanger Defense. Documents in defense of Oskar Dirlewanger. Bundesarchiv Berlin-Lichterfelde R58-7633.


Dirlewanger's testimony on the lethal injection of Jews. BTW, there's no soap reference in the file.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 1:17 am

Regarding Max Grabner and his alleged confession re. never-realised human soap/oils plans at Auschwitz, which Hans posted on here, subsequently discussed here.

I found a local newspaper report on Grabner's statement published only a week after his arrest. This suggests HC's dating of Grabner's statement[s] are too late, or—far more likely—Grabner made an earlier statement which hasn't survived due to its obvious absurdities, e.g. over 6.5 million Auschwitz deaths, and human-soap factories—the biggest run by Croatian soap manufacturer Saponia.

Österreichische Volksstimme [Vienna], 11 August 1945, p.3. wrote:Was der Massenmörder von Auschwitz aussagt

Die Gaskammern des Lagers — In drei Minuten tausend Menschen ermordet — Aus Menschenhaaren Filz, aus Leichen Seife! — Schuld am Tod von mehr als einer Million wehrloser Opfer

Nach langen Bemühungen ist es, wie wir bereits berichteten, gelungen, den berüchtigten Chef der politischen Abteilung des Konzentrationslagers von Auschwitz, den SS-Untersturmführer Grabner, festzunehmen. Sein Name ist aus der blutbefleckten Geschichte dieses Vernichtungslagers in Oberschlesien nicht mehr wegzudenken. Er hat auf Befehl des Hauptamtes des Sicherheitsdienstes in Berlin — Himmler! — Massenvergasungen durchgeführt.

Laut seinen Angaben sind in Auschwitz mehr als 6,5 Millionen Menschen umgebracht worden.

Davon hat Grabner, wie er jetzt seelenruhig zugibt, in der Zeit von achtzehn Monaten mehr als anderthalb Millionen erledigt! Die Geschichte aller Zeiten kennt keine Verbrecher, die auch nur annähernd diesem Unmenschen nahekommen.

Grabner ist etwa mittelgroß, er macht einen ganz unscheinbaren Eindruck. Im Lager ging er immer elegant herum, meist mit einem Jagdgewehr; heute sieht er etwas weniger elegant aus.

Stur sind seine Mienen, wenn er davon spricht, wie er in Auschwitz viele hunderttausend Menschen umgebracht hat.

Seinen Angaben nach wurden etwa 80 bis 90 Prozent der Juden, die aus den von den Deutschen besetzten Gebieten weggeschleppt wurden, in Auschwitz vergast. Das war das Schicksal der Juden aus Polen, Frankreich, Griechenland, Jugoslawien, Italien, Belgien, Norwegen, Holland, der Tschechoslowakei, Ungarn, Oesterreich und Deutschland, also aus dem größten Teil Europas. Außerdem kamen nach Auschwitz politische Häftlinge aus allen slawischen Ländern, aus Deutschland, Oesterreich und auch aus den anderen besetzten Ländern. Und dazu noch die kriegsgefangenen Rotarmisten. Unter seiner Leitung wurden in Auschwitz die Kranken und arbeitsunfähigen Insassen anderer Konzentrationslager liquidiert. Ihm fallen zur Last auch tausende Kinder, die transportweise nach Auschwitz gebracht und dort beseitigt wurden.

Ein „Fachmann" berichtet über die Gaskammer

Ueber die Gaskammern von Auschwitz, die in der Welt eine traurige Berühmtheit erlangt haben, spricht Grabner seelenruhig und geradezu mit fachmännischer Sicherheit. Er sagt:

"Es gab zwei große und zwei kleine Gaskammern. Die größere war 10 Meter lang und hatte vier große Schläuche, die das Gas zuführten, und eine Entlüftungsanlage. Meist wurde mit Blausäuregas gearbeitet." Ueber dem Eingang war eine Tafel: „Baderaum." Die erste Halle im Innern war mit Inschriften geziert, wie „Haltet euch rein!" u. dgl.

Grabner gab auf die Frage, wieviel Menschen in Auschwitz getötet wurden, ohne auch nur eine Miene zu verziehen zu, daß ihre Zahl 6,5 Millionen übersteigen dürfte.

Auf die entsetzte Bemerkung des Verhörenden, wie dies möglich sei, meinte er mit einem Achselzucken, daß „sie es in Auschwitz zuwege gebracht hätten, dank dem Fortschritt der Technik in zirka drei Minuten 1000 Menschen zu erledigen".

Mit richtiger Nazigründlichkeit wurden die Leichen aufs schnellste mit elektrischen Aufzügen ins Krematorium gebracht, das nach Grabners Aussagen Tag und Nacht in Betrieb war. Zur Bedienung des Krematoriums gab es ein eigenes Kommando von 100 bis 250 Mann, je nach Bedarf. Die Mitglieder dieses Kommandos hatten die Aufgabe, den Leichen die Goldzähne herauszubrechen, Finger, an denen Ringe steckten, abzuschneiden und dann die Leichen in die Oefen zu werfen. Etwa alle sechs Wochen wurden sie dann selbst vergast und verbrannt.

Ruhe, die das Blut erstarren läßt

Grabner macht alle diese Angaben, bei denen jedem Menschen das Blut in den Adern gerinnen muß, mit einem selbst bei einem Nazi ungewöhnlichen Gleichmut, als ob es sich um bloße geschäftliche Berichte handeln würde. Er erzählt „sachlich", daß die Vergasungsanlage von der Firma Topf & Söhne, Erfurt, unter Leitung des Oberingenieurs Prüf er hergestellt wurde. Ein Vergasungsraum kostete etwa 2,4 Millionen RM.

Filz aus Menschenhaaren, Seife aus Menschenknochen

Als Deutschland mit dem totalen Krieg begann, wurde auch das Lager Auschwitz „total eingesetzt". Das sah so aus:

Die Haare der Insassen wurden geschoren, der Lebenden wie der Toten, und einer Filzfabrik zur Verarbeitung übergeben.

Grabner erzählt, daß der damalige Lagerkommandant Höß einige Konferenzen mit daran interessierten Firmen hatte. Die Besprechungen verliefen erfolgreich, und in der Umgebung von Auschwitz wurden große Seifenfabriken erbaut, darunter die größte, „Saponia", die vom Lager reich mit „Rohmaterial" beliefert wurden.

Grabners Entlassung und ihr Grund

Im Herbst 1943 wurde Grabner auf eine Weisung seiner vorgesetzten Stelle, des Hauptamtes des SD Berlin, seines Postens enthoben. Der Grund ist ein Beitrag zur Sittengeschichte der Nazi, der verdient, für alle Zeiten festgehalten zu werden.

Er hatte in seinen Berichten an das Hauptamt des SD nicht genaue Auskunft geben können, was mit rund 200,000 im Lager verstorbenen Insassen geschehen war.

Er wußte nicht anzugeben, ob sie eines natürlichen Todes gestorben, vergast oder sonstwie liquidiert wurden. Das Hauptbuch des Herrn Himmler drohte dadurch in Unordnung zu geraten, und deshalb verlor Himmlers Prokurist Grabner seinen Posten.

Grabners Flucht und wie er sich zu verbergen wußte

Als die Rote Armee dem Hitler-Spuk ein Ende bereitete, floh Grabner in seine Heimat. Wir schämen uns, es zu sagen:

Grabner ist Wiener!

Er floh hierher und verbarg sich bei Verwandten im 2. Bezirk. Dort wurde er verhaftet. Bei seiner Festnahme hatte er die Frechheit, sich zu beklagen, daß die Fesseln ihn einschneiden.

Kennzeichnend für seinen Charakter ist, daß dieser „rassenreine nordische Edelmensch" sich nun als „Mischling" auszugeben versucht.

So sehen die Menschen aus, die sich erfrechten, die ganze Welt beherrschen zu wollen! Das sind die Männer, die die „neue Ordnung" der Welt verkündeten! Jetzt enthüllen sie sich in ihrer wahren Gestalt: sie waren nichts als schurkische Verbrecher, kaltblütige Massenmörder, die ihr blutiges Handwerk mit unvorstellbarer „Großzügigkeit" betrieben. Heute aber geben sie sich den Anschein, als wären sie bedeutungslose Alltagsmenschen, die keinen Anlaß haben, die Ruhe zu verlieren, heute zeigen sie sich als erbärmliche Kreaturen, als Schattengestalten, die durch ihre äußere Armseligkeit über die unheimliche Bestialität ihres Charakters hinwegtäuschen möchten. Daß einer der abscheulichsten Kerle in dieser Bande ein Wiener war, muß von uns allen, die wir Sauberkeitsempfinden besitzen, wie ein schmerzendes Brandmal empfunden werden, das nur getilgt werden kann durch schonungslose Ausmerzung jenes menschlichen Unrates, der sich noch heute in Gestalt von Nazifaschisten mitten unter uns herumtreibt.

http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?aid=ovs&datum=19450811&seite=3&zoom=33
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue May 15, 2018 5:55 am

Clearly an exaggerated retelling.

> This suggests HC's dating of Grabner's statement[s] are too late

It suggests no such thing. It's clearly based on an interrogation, not a written statement.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue May 15, 2018 6:01 am

> Die Besprechungen verliefen erfolgreich, und in der Umgebung von Auschwitz wurden große Seifenfabriken erbaut, darunter die größte, „Saponia", die vom Lager reich mit „Rohmaterial" beliefert wurden.


Nothing about human rests btw. Raw material could be soap rests of the deportees, for example.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 6:55 am

The article's more than clear on the sort of remains the camps supplied the soap factories.

"aus Leichen Seife!"
"Seife aus Menschenknochen"
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue May 15, 2018 7:31 am

And at the same time it claims the bodies were immediately incinerated after killing.


And wassup with dat? The provided link claims "The factory receives the name Saponia which it carries to this day" in 1953?
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 9:10 am

scrmbldggs wrote:And at the same time it claims the bodies were immediately incinerated after killing.

I'll be nice and pretend you haven't posted something this stupid.

scrmbldggs wrote:And wassup with dat? The provided link claims "The factory receives the name Saponia which it carries to this day" in 1953? Shouldn't it have been Unilever before that?

Good point.

Perhaps Grabner meant the following German firm that made housekeeping soap. I don't know if it was still operating under the same name during WW2:

Saponia-Werke Ferdinand Boehm, of Offenbach-on-the-Main:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/41/03/8a/b3efadf15df3ac/US862305.pdf
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue May 15, 2018 3:25 pm

Please fill me in on where Grabner (or anyone else) described rendering (beyond shearing). Or the collecting and distribution of fat. Or how several large soap factories were doing on a supply of cut-off fingers.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue May 15, 2018 4:50 pm

BRoI wrote:The article's more than clear on the sort of remains the camps supplied the soap factories.

"aus Leichen Seife!"
"Seife aus Menschenknochen"

That's interpretation. But the part which purports to retell the testimony is notably sparse on the keywords. It is reasonable to hypothesize that it was a particularly severe case of wishful thinking.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 6:58 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Please fill me in on where Grabner (or anyone else) described rendering (beyond shearing). Or the collecting and distribution of fat. Or how several large soap factories were doing on a supply of cut-off fingers.

You're clearly doubting the veracity of Grabner's testimony on human-soap production at Auschwitz. Why do you think he said such things if it wasn't true? Tortured? Beaten? Made a mistake?


SR wrote:That's interpretation. But the part which purports to retell the testimony is notably sparse on the keywords. It is reasonable to hypothesize that it was a particularly severe case of wishful thinking.

A consistent feature in this and the later testimony Hans was honest enough to revealed is:

>>>Hoess discussing at a meeting[s] the possibility of producing human-soap/oil at Auschwitz

Grabner never said anything, at any point, about soap being brought to Auschwitz by deportees, never mind such quantities of the the stuff the commandant met with business people to discuss opening re-rendering plants to deal with the not-mentioned-in-the-literature soap mountain of Birkenau.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue May 15, 2018 7:37 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Please fill me in on where Grabner (or anyone else) described rendering (beyond shearing). Or the collecting and distribution of fat. Or how several large soap factories were doing on a supply of cut-off fingers.

You're clearly doubting the veracity of Grabner's testimony on human-soap production at Auschwitz. Why do you think he said such things if it wasn't true? Tortured? Beaten? Made a mistake?

In the article, he claims large soap factories had been built in the vicinity of Auschwitz and were supplied by the camp. He doesn't even say with what.

But if it was from human bodies, man they must have had sooo many, they were still burning them in pits! I don't know if we will ever know the actual numbers...

SR wrote:That's interpretation. But the part which purports to retell the testimony is notably sparse on the keywords. It is reasonable to hypothesize that it was a particularly severe case of wishful thinking.

A consistent feature in this and the later testimony Hans was honest enough to revealed is:

>>>Hoess discussing at a meeting[s] the possibility of producing human-soap/oil at Auschwitz

Grabner never said anything, and any point, about soap being brought to Auschwitz by deportees, never mind such quantities of the the stuff, the commandant met with business people to discuss opening re-rendering plants to deal with the not-mentioned-in-the-literature soap mountain of Birkenau.

I know, it's ridiculous. No one traveling into the unknown (or anywhere else) would think of packing a piece of soap with their belongings.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 8:35 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:In the article, he claims large soap factories had been built in the vicinity of Auschwitz and were supplied by the camp. He doesn't even say with what.

Are there any hints in the article as to what Grabner claimed the camp supplied to the soap factories. Or is context to be ignored in this instance?


I know, it's ridiculous. No one traveling into the unknown (or anywhere else) would think of packing a piece of soap with their belongings.

I never travel without my infinity soap, especially if visiting a war-torn continent where it's subject to rationing due to a well documented soap shortage. And then there's always those campers who never bring any infinity soap, just excuses about having come from a forced ghetto where they had no air con, wifi, food, etc., etc.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue May 15, 2018 8:46 pm

I guess all those who had glasses and/or shoes etc. couldn't afford soap. That's probably also why they gave up on things like these.


One has to admit, it's kinda funny that there have been found mountains of all kinds of goods - even after what already had been transported elsewhere. But I don't remember ever coming across that mountain of soap. I wonder why...
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed May 16, 2018 5:44 pm

> Grabner never said anything, at any point, about soap being brought to Auschwitz by deportees, never mind such quantities of the the stuff the commandant met with business people to discuss opening re-rendering plants to deal with the not-mentioned-in-the-literature soap mountain of Birkenau.

At no point in the article is Grabner quoted as saying that the soap was from human corpses. What quite possibly happened is that he was asked about human soap, mentioned the Schwela proposal which he would also repeat later and mentioned the re-rendering of the deportee soap (that, as you know, led to at least one Auschwitz soap testimony, which would be sort of a precedent) which quite possibly also led to a discussion with a soap firm representative. Given the propagandist nature of the article's author it possibly became big meetings with representatives because of the human soap. What is Grabner's part and what are possible embellishments and/or misunderstandings by the author is obviously hard to say.

In favor of this reading:

- absence of explicit mentions of human soap specifically in the part retelling the testimony, only the ambiguous raw materials;

- Grabner's subsequent denial of the soap while being in the same custody (could not find any such procedure in the camp);

- As well as the failure of his interrogators to bring up such a juicy story in subsequent interrogations or make him make a written statement on it.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed May 16, 2018 5:48 pm

It is also possible that the meeting took place b4 the re-rendering plant was built in Auschwitz and Höß was exploring ways of reusing the deportee soap. I don't know when exactly it was built.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu May 17, 2018 7:58 am

I've freshened my memory up - Neander hypothesizes that Auerbach's tall tale about him taking part in human soap production in Auschwitz which he apparently told his nephew Hirsch (and something never mentioned in his unpublished memoir, where only the production of soap from animal rests is mentioned) is based on the soap remelting plant in the Theatergebäude (something Grabner would have been very familiar with). The deportee soap would be melted in big cauldrons, then left to cool and then cut up into bars.

If a specific firm installed the equipment, or if there were at least talks with such a firm about installing it, this could be the origin of the claim in the article.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 am

SR wrote:At no point in the article is Grabner quoted as saying that the soap was from human corpses.

The headline and subheader of the article:
What the mass murderer of Auschwitz states
The gas chambers of the camp — In three minutes a thousand people murdered — from human hair felt, from corpses soap!


The relevant section:
Felt from human hair, soap from human bones
When Germany started the total war, the Auschwitz camp was "totally used." It looked like this:

The hair was of the inmates was shorn, the living as well as the dead, and passed to a felt factory for processing.

Grabner relates that the former camp commandant Höß had some conferences with interested companies. The meetings were successful, and large soap factories were built in the vicinity of Auschwitz, including the largest, "Saponia", which was supplied with "raw materials" by the camp.

The entire section concerns the exploitation of human bodies at Auschwitz, whether alive or dead.

"Raw material" is placed within scare-quotes to indicate the term is used ironically. The author had informed his readers moments earlier what this "raw material" was: "soap from human bones".

The author uses scare-quotes several times to indicate he's ironically using the nazi's own terms:
Kennzeichnend für seinen Charakter ist, daß dieser „rassenreine nordische Edelmensch" sich nun als „Mischling" auszugeben versucht.

So sehen die Menschen aus, die sich erfrechten, die ganze Welt beherrschen zu wollen! Das sind die Männer, die die „neue Ordnung" der Welt verkündeten! Jetzt enthüllen sie sich in ihrer wahren Gestalt: sie waren nichts als schurkische Verbrecher, kaltblütige Massenmörder, die ihr blutiges Handwerk mit unvorstellbarer „Großzügigkeit" betrieben.

Bars of soap are not "raw material" in any sense.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Thu May 17, 2018 1:06 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:I've freshened my memory up - Neander hypothesizes that Auerbach's tall tale about him taking part in human soap production in Auschwitz which he apparently told his nephew Hirsch (and something never mentioned in his unpublished memoir, where only the production of soap from animal rests is mentioned) is based on the soap remelting plant in the Theatergebäude (something Grabner would have been very familiar with). The deportee soap would be melted in big cauldrons, then left to cool and then cut up into bars.


Neander uses the same excuse for a different direct human-soap witness, in "‘Symbolically burying the six million’: post-war soap burial in Romania, Bulgaria and Brazil", p.29.

Did you notice Neander cites contemporary evidence that one SS-man sent his family over 26lbs of soap he'd collected from deportees in just one five-week period? Others were at it too apparently.

Aside from the seemingly untraceable journal he cites, in the draft Neander sources A. Strzelecki, "Plundering the Victims’ Property" in Auschwitz 1940-1945:2:164, but says nothing of the other indigents, or products, mentioned in his source:

Auschwitz 1940-1945:2:164 wrote:Prisoners in the soap workshop had to melt down various materials found in the baggage of the victims—bits of soap, toothpaste and white shoe polish—in order to make soap. [68: ... Candles and grease for packing guns were also made in the soap-shop described.]
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:45 pm

All of this is absolutely fascinating reading but the fact remains:
In spite of rumors of mass produced “Jew soap” during the war it never happened. This weird denier obsession with “Jewish soap” is downright silly.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu May 17, 2018 2:25 pm

> The entire section concerns the exploitation of human bodies at Auschwitz, whether alive or dead.

Sure, that's how the author decided it would be. Are you perhaps missing my point?

> "Raw material" is placed within scare-quotes to indicate the term is used ironically. The author had informed his readers moments earlier what this "raw material" was: "soap from human bones".

I interpret raw materials as the citation of Grabner, but if it's not, then we have even less idea of what expressions Grabner used.

What phrasing the author used couldn't be less relevant so I'm not sure why you are repeating yourself. This phrasing is not ascribed to Grabner, only the meaning is. And whether the meaning is correct is what we are discussing.

> The author uses scare-quotes several times to indicate he's ironically using the nazi's own terms:

My point exactly - we only know (or suppose) that G said "raw materials".

The soap phrasing is *not* ascribed to him. It is thus fully compatible with my hypothesis - it's a mistaken interpretation (garble) by the author.

> Bars of soap are not "raw material" in any sense.

Bars of soap obviously are raw material for a remelting plant.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat May 19, 2018 12:31 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:> The entire section concerns the exploitation of human bodies at Auschwitz, whether alive or dead.

Sure, that's how the author decided it would be.

The article is from only the 6th edition of a recently-founded, Soviet-controlled, daily newspaper published in Soviet-occupied Vienna. The article is based on information obtained during interrogations conducted by the chief of the Austrian police, Heinrich Dürmayer, a former Kapo in Auschwitz and a "100% Stalinist". Grabner was captured after Dürmayer had placed all his known relatives and associates in/near Vienna under police observation.

The author of this article—assuming it was written by a journalist—would not of been permitted by his Soviet-appointed editor to mess around with information passed to the newspaper by the Soviet-appointed Austrian police chief.

The wording of the newspaper article is clear and concise. Not one of the intended readers in 1945-Vienna, whether lowly or highly educated, would have doubted for an instant what *type* of soap is being discussed.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat May 19, 2018 8:57 am

> Not one of the intended readers in 1945-Vienna, whether lowly or highly educated, would have doubted for an instant what *type* of soap is being discussed.

Ehm, are you really intent on missing the point again? Why are you trying to prove once again that the author's intent was to present the human soap story, the point no one is disputing?

> The article is based on information obtained during interrogations conducted by the chief of the Austrian police, Heinrich Dürmayer

Correct, hence the following points are relevant:

- Grabner's subsequent denial of the soap while being in the same custody (could not find any such procedure in the camp);

- As well as the failure of his interrogators to bring up such a juicy story in subsequent interrogations or make him make a written statement on it (except his denial of the same story in the expanded edition of his initial written statement).

This needs explanation. The best explanation I can think of is that the human soap is based on part on wishful thinking, part on misunderstanding by the author of what Grabner testified about.

This explanation can be refuted by finding an *unambiguous* statement by Grabner repeating the story. Given the wealth of the material from Vienna (numerous interrogations, statements + footage) in which such a story could be found but wasn't, my explanation gains weight.

> would not of been permitted by his Soviet-appointed editor to mess around with information passed to the newspaper by the Soviet-appointed Austrian police chief.

You assume that the author was not present during the interrogation. I assume he was, since no such official protocols are known. The editor (and the article might have been written by an/the editor in the first place) would thus have nothing to compare the article to.

You assume that messing with information for a greater propagandistic effect was not allowed. I assume it was. Moreover, I do not assume a 100% invention but an embellishment based on a misunderstanding.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat May 19, 2018 3:37 pm

Anyone know where this footage is from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHjc386CS5E

I rather think it's from August Hirt's "Jewish Skeleton Collection" at Natzweiler-Struthof. Which would make the captions talking about soap erroneous, though, as that took place at the Danzig Anatomical Institute, with the final bit showing the skin from yet another place, Buchenwald.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat May 19, 2018 5:02 pm

^That doesn't look like the facility in the Natzweiler-Struthof images.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sat May 19, 2018 11:19 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Anyone know where this footage is from?


Danzig AI.

But at the Eichmann trial, the footage was passed off as being shot at Strasbourg university, depicting people gassed at Natzweiler-Struthof for Hirt's skeleton collection.

Dr. Servatius: No, it is a genuine scene, but I have the feeling that it was filmed after the liberation, when they continued the process of burning bodies. Subsequently, there is a scene showing decapitated bodies, and the heads in a separate receptacle. I assume that both the scenes of the corpses and those of the heads are genuine. But I have the impression that it was put together for the purpose of reports that were made. Thereafter, we are shown some rectangular objects, and it is said that this was soap made from these bodies. I request that, in this instance, too, the text be examined.
Attorney General: The next scene will be Birkenau. Next, Mauthausen, and after that Strasbourg. This is how people were killed on the electrified barbed wire fences. This is the roll-call in Mauthausen. The people are standing there, naked.

Presiding Judge: Did you say that the last section was filmed in Strasbourg?

Attorney General: There was the matter of the supply of one hundred and fifty skeletons to the Institute for Ancestral Research "Ahnenerbe". We shall prove the link with the Accused. Instead of supplying skeletons, he supplied living people whose skeletons served the institute.

Presiding Judge: Do you have evidence that this was filmed at Strasbourg?

Attorney General: There are pictures closely resembling those which were shown at Nuremberg.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-070-06.html


Compare stills to photos taken at Danzig AI from GFH:

Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
Image

Numerous photos of severed heads, one photos depicts more than 20, at the Danzig AI can be found on the GFH archive.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sun May 20, 2018 2:00 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:Ehm, are you really intent on missing the point again? Why are you trying to prove once again that the author's intent was to present the human soap story, the point no one is disputing?

Have you abandoned your previous claim that "raw materials" refers not to human bodies, but bars of soap?

Sergey_Romanov wrote:- Grabner's subsequent denial of the soap while being in the same custody (could not find any such procedure in the camp);

He couldn't find it! That would necessitate him having searched for it. Why would he have done that?

You refer to the part of Grabner's statement that you decided not to publish, and, were it not for Hans having addressed it, Grabner's human-oils testimony would still be unknown to me.

Zur Sache der Seifenerzeugung im Lager aus menschlichen Leichen. Der ehemalige Standortarzt Dr.Schweler sprach einmal mit Höss, es wäre doch möglich aus Leichen feines Öl erzeugen zu können. Er hätte darüber in Berlin gesprochen. Höss erklärte, dass er sich bei der nächsten Besprechung in Berlin darüber erkundigen werde. Dies habe ich durch einen Kommandanturschreiber in Erfahrung gebracht. Ein Verfahren solcher Art habe ich nicht festgestellt.

To the matter of producing soap from human corpses in the camp. The former Garrison Medic Dr. Schweler once spoke with Hoess that it would be possible to produce fine oil from corpses. He would have spoken about it in Berlin. Hoess stated that he would himself inquire about it in the next meeting in Berlin. This I have come to know through a Kommandantur clerk. A method to do this thing I have not ascertained [or: I have not ascertained a method of such kind].

There's was no "denial", and he says that he didn't learn the processes of extracting oils from corpses.

Sergey_Romanov wrote:- As well as the failure of his interrogators to bring up such a juicy story in subsequent interrogations or make him make a written statement on it (except his denial of the same story in the expanded edition of his initial written statement).

Again, there was no "denial".
Hans wrote:Schwela suggested to Höß to produce soap of human fat, but it is unknown if it was implemented

Aside from various other human-soap rumours doing the rounds, or being pushed by some Soviet writers, claims about Auschwitz soap were published shortly before Grabner's arrest, and were later read into the IMT transcript [7:175].
Mattogno, p.87. wrote:On March 4, 1945, four eminent university professors [all pictured next to Grabner's Block 11 in the Soviet liberation film] — Mansfeld Geza of Budapest-Pecs, Berthold Epstein of Prague, Bruno Fischer of Prague, and Henri Limousin of Clermont-Ferrand — representing some 4,000 detainees whom the Soviets had liberated at Auschwitz, published a four-page appeal entitled “An die internationale Öffentlichkeit” (To the International Public). The aim of this appeal was to publicize the terrible crimes committed at Auschwitz by the German “Bestien in Menschengestalt” (beasts in human form). I quote here Item d) of the appeal dealing with the alleged exterminations by means of gas:
[...] The corpses also yielded oils and fats for machinery, even washing soaps.

[IMT version:
"Fats and oils for technical purposes and for the manufacture of soap were also obtained from the corpses"]
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/11-dtboa.pdf

Asides from Danzig AI, human-soap never made it into any ESC or similar official report I can think of, certainly not the May 1945 report on Auschwitz. This helps explain why Grabner's initial soap "confession", along with his 6.5m+ death toll, were heavily reined in during his subsequent statements; statements in which he remembered there had been more than just the four gas chambers he initially said, and could now recall many intricate details about them.
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 20, 2018 5:45 am

> Have you abandoned your previous claim that "raw materials" refers not to human bodies, but bars of soap?

I have not abandoned the hypothesis that when (if) Grabner said "raw materials" he might have meant the deportee soap, but could have been misunderstood as meaning something else, no. Why would I have?

> He couldn't find it! That would necessitate him having searched for it. Why would he have done that?

He said nothing about searching.

> You refer to the part of Grabner's statement that you decided not to publish

You're lying as usual, I published the complete GARF statement without omitting anything.

> There's was no "denial", and he says that he didn't learn the processes of extracting oils from corpses.

No, he is saying he did not find out about any such procedure in the camp. Nothing about "ascertaining". And no, running to a dictionary and inserting any random meaning you like is not how translations work. Don't base your arguments on your deficient knowledge of German.

> Again, there was no "denial".

Of course there was.

> This helps explain why Grabner's initial soap "confession", along with his 6.5m+ death toll, were heavily reined in during his subsequent statements; statements in which he remembered there had been more than just the four gas chambers he initially said, and could now recall many intricate details about them.

Not really, for if the author of the statement was so soap-happy, there is nothing to suggest he would not have continued this line subsequently. Instead we get a direct denial of the soap.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sun May 20, 2018 6:54 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:> You refer to the part of Grabner's statement that you decided not to publish

You're lying as usual, I published the complete GARF statement without omitting anything.


Knew this would prompt the old lying accusation.

You didn't get this part of his statement from the GARF. You wrote about the additional pages you had from the Krakow-Guards trial records, which you weren't publishing:

SR wrote:We're publishing the complete typed German text as it appears in the file (with most obvious typos corrected; name spelling irregularities are left intact), which is entitled "Copy of a record made by Obersturmführer Grabner by his own hand". This, however, was not the final version of Grabner's statement. In the files of the Auschwitz Garrison trial we see the same statement with several more pages of material after the last entry reproduced here (NTN 136, vol. 53a, pp. 111ff.).
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/statement-of-maximilian-grabner.html

Hans wrote:Both the short and the long statement are original from Grabner. It's just that he took a break after scripting the short statement, which was passed on the Soviets, and that he finished to the long statement, which was passed on to the Poles. The short was clearly an unfinished manuscript, because he already announced to write something on his SS trial, but which only appears in the long statement.

The soap issue is in NTN 137, volume 53a, p. 140 (long):
Hans wrote:I'm gratefull to Sergey for providing me the files obtained by the Polish investigators from the State Police in Vienna (cited as NTN 137, volume 53a, p. 25 ff.).
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/how-reliable-is-statement-of-maximilian.html

Perhaps you should think twice before passing inconvenient documents to Hans, until he learns to suppress that propensity for honesty.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

Sergey_Romanov
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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 20, 2018 7:06 am

> You didn't get this part of his statement from the GARF.

Correct, so when you say "part of Grabner's statement that you decided not to publish" you lie, since the only statement I published was in GARF and no parts of the statement were omitted. Thus there was no part of Grabner's statement that I decided not to publish.

That the *other* document, which included the text of the statement I published alongside further info, didn't get published is irrelevant, since I've never entertained any thought of publishing the whole cache of the Grabner materials, so there has never been a "decision" not to publish the expanded statement.

There was a decision to publish a particular statement, nothing else.

It's like accusing you of "deciding not to publish" parts of the British decodes when you publish selected decodes.

> Perhaps you should think twice before passing inconvenient documents to Hans until he learns to suppress that propensity for honesty.

You're notorious for your dishonesty, and you've confirmed your dishonesty right now, so whatever you say on the issue couldn't be less relevant.


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