Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Kurt Wilhelm Leeser
Buchenwald inmate: 23.09.38 - 11.04.45 [1]
Worked as a disinfector, but went to the PD "two or three times a week". [2]

1. p.1712 & 1718
2. p.1714

Kurt Lesser testimony at the Buchenwald trial wrote:
[p.1715]
Q [prosecution]. When you went to the pathological section there at Buchenwald did you have an occasion to see any tattooed skin?
A. Yes, quite frequently.
Q. Did you ever know any prisoner whose skin you later saw there in the pathological section?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the name of that prisoner?
A. Josef Collinette.
Q. Did you know Josef Collinette in his lifetime?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of tattoo did he have on him during his lifetime?
A. He had a big boat on his back; he had his legs tattooed up to about here, about his knee, arms and the chest was full of tattoos as well.
Q. When was the last time you saw Josef Collinette alive?
A. I still saw him on Friday and the next week, on Thursday I saw the skin, in the pathological department with Josef Wegerer. He was the chief of the pathological department.
Q. Do you know what the condition of Josef Collinette's health was at the time you saw him?
A. He was very healthy. Might I remark something here?
Q. Yes, what is it?
A. One time Josef Collinette was called by Dr. Mueller to the hospital from the bath. I was quite surprised because this Dr. Mueller wanted to write a book about tattoos. Two days later I saw him standing up at the gate and he told me he had had to move out and a short time thereafter the skin was lying at Wegerer's place in the pathological department that I had last seen on Friday and on Thursday he was was there.
Q. Do you know what disposition was made of the skin of Josef Collinette?
A. That was put on the lampshade where the leg was, on that leg.
[p.1716]

[p.1719]
Q. [defence Captain Lewis] You testified about this incident with your friend Josef. When did this happen?
A. Shortly after Dr. Mueller had taken over the pathological.
Q. Can you tell us what year that was in?
A. I don't know that either.
Q. You testified that you saw the skin of your friend. Where did you see that skin?
A. In the pathological department in the glass container in which they were watered.
Q. Did you see the lamp shade on which the skin was?
A. Yes, five meters away.
Q. Where was this? Also in the pathological department?
A. Yes.
Q. And you recognized the skin on the lamp shade as being the skin of your friend, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me how large was this ship that your friend had tattooed on his back?
A. It was on top; you could only see the sides.
Q. How large was this ship in size?
A. There were flowers from the arms on the sides about this big [indicating].
Q. Can you tell us how big the ship was in centimeters?
A. The width of the back of a normal man.
Q. And how many centimeters would you say that was?
A. I assume 40 centimeters.
Q. How tall was it?
A. Perhaps 35.
Q. This ship covered the whole back of your friend, isn't that so?
A. The upper part of the back.
Q. And this lamp shade that you saw with the ship on it, also had a human leg on it, is that correct?
A. Yes, the bones.
Q. Do you remember how many masts this ship had?
A. I only saw the ship on the back and not on the lamp later on.
Q. Didn't you just testifiy that you saw the lamp shade with the ship on it?
A. No, I stated that I saw the skin in that thing, but I stated that I saw the arm tattoos on the lamp shade.
Q. So that you never saw a lamp shade with a ship on it, is that right?
A. Since Dr. Mueller was in the room, and I was standing in the door, I could not go near it, because I was five meters away from it.
Q. So you never saw a lamp shade with a ship on it, did you?
A. Not the ship, only the arm tattooes.
[p.1721]
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:48 pm

Kogon is irrelevant, as is whose skin exactly the lampshade was made of (Leeser's testimony alone is in any case not conclusive as to the identification). Leeser does not claim Mueller murdered anyone in the quoted excerpt and even if he did that would only be an assumption. As usual, irrelevancies from the BRoI.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:22 pm

The Nazis have gotten such a bad rap.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 pm

IKR?

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:As usual, irrelevancies from the BRoI.


Well yes, but he is the go-to guy if you like wire service stories from obscure American newspapers. :lol:

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:31 am

Romanov wrote:Gustav Wegerer, the kapo in the Buchenwald pathology, wrote in his statement published in the so-called Buchenwald Report (Hackett D. (Hrsg.), 2010 (2.Aufl.), Der Buchenwald-Report. Bericht über das Konzentrationslager Buchenwald bei Weimar, S. 261):
Lolling was the chief doctor of all the concentration camps in Germany until the end. Mueller also gave Stöckel and Werner Bach the assignment of producing sheaths for pocket knives and other objects out of tanned human skin. Moreover, Lolling requested written instructions for the preparation of shrunken human heads, that is, human heads that were shrunk to the size of a fist, like those produced by the cannibals of the South Sea islands. There were reports from the information section of the American army about the methods of the South Sea islanders, which I sent to Lolling. In addition, the SS doctors themselves "prepared" a sizable number of heads here according to these methods.

He claimed that he gave "specimens" of the heads to the information section of the American army after 13.04.1945 (W. Bartel (Hrsg.), Buchenwald. Mahnung und Verpflichtung. Dokumente und Berichte, 1983, S. 179).


You evidently noticed the two books have radically different versions of the same Wegerer statement, yet you opted not to mention it, why?

FYI, the first time this statement was published, Wegerer mentioned no date in regarding to giving the US Army a few shrunken heads, pieces of tanned human skin, and knife sheathes made from tanned human skin:

Ein weiterer Auftrag war, für Lolling eine schriftliche Präparieranweisung über Schrumpfköpfe herzustellen. Schrumpfköpfe sind auf Faustgröße eingeschrumpfte Menschenköpfe nach Methode der Menschenfresser der Südsee präpariert. Ich habe Belegexemplare der Informationsabteilung der amerikanischen Armee überreicht, ebenfalls Stücke gegerbter Menschenhaut und davon angefertigter Taschenmesseretuis.

- Gustav Wegerer, cf. Benedikt Kautsky, Teufel und Verdammte, Zurich: Büchergilde Gutenberg, 1946, p.307.


Despite the man dying in 1954, when his statement was republished in 1960 it had evolved as follows:

Ein weiterer Auftrag bestand darin, für Lolling eine schriftliche Präparieranweisung über Schrumpfköpfe herzustellen. Schrumpfköpfe sind auf Faustgröße eingeschrumpfte Menschenköpfe, die, nach Methoden der Menschenfresser der Südsee, präpariert wurden.

Belegexemplare däruber, sowie Stücke gegerbter Menschenhaut und davon angefertigte Taschenmesseretuis habe ich nach dem 13. April 1945 der Informationsabteilung der amerikanischen Armee übergeben.

- Gustav Wegerer, cf. W. Bartel (ed), Buchenwald: Mahnung und Verpflichtung, Berlin: Kongress-Verlag, 1960, p.159.
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:12 am

Romanov wrote:Does that mean that no human lampshades existed in Buchenwald? Not necessarily. It is likely that there is a certain core of truth to the lampshade story which also explains its origin.

The Buchenwald Museum explains:

For the existence of a lampshade from human skin there are two credible witnesses who made statements under oath: Dr. Gustav Wegerer, Austrian, political prisoner, kapo of the pathology, and Josef Ackermann, political prisoner in the pathology and secretary of the camp doctor Waldemar Hoven. [...] The time period can be defined more precisely through Ackermann's statement. Ackermann delivered the lamp, as he testified in 1950 in court. The lamp-foot was made from a human foot and shinbone; on the shade one saw tattoos and even nipples. On the occasion of the birthday party of Koch [August 1941] he was tasked by the camp doctor Hoven to bring the lamp to the Kochs' villa. This he did. One of the party guests told him later that the presentation of the lamp had been a huge success. The lamp immediately disappeared after the SS leadership learned about it. Ilse Koch could not be accused of making the lampshade.


That's very dishonest; you didn't even use an ellipsis!

The final sentence should read:

The lamp immediately disappeared after the SS leadership learned about it. Ilse Koch could not be accused of making the lampshade (according to A. L. Smith, Die Hexe von Buchenwald, Weimar, Cologne, Vienna 1994, p.192).


So, it's Romanov citing Stein citing Smith.

Romanov didn't check Smith's book, but I did. Smith's citations for his claims about Ackermann's statements at the Augsburg Kock trial [p.192] are as follows:

61) Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 6. Dezember 1950.
62) A.a.O., 8. Dezember 1950.

pp.248-9.


Articles regarding the Koch trial do appear in both cited editions [pages 3 and 7 respectively] but Ackermann isn't mentioned in either; Ackermann testified on 29 November 1950.

Another edition of the Schwäbische Landeszeitung Smith cites in the chapter does contain a report on Ackermann's testimony, and this article exposes his dishonesty [probably why he muddled the citations]:

Smith wrote [p.192]:

Vielleicht stammte die verläßlichste Aussage zu Ilses angeblichem Besitz von Menschenhaut von dem ehemaligen Häftling Josef Ackermann, inzwischen Senator in München. Er berichtete, er habe eine Lampe mit einem Schirm aus tätowierter Menschenhaut („man konnte darauf die Brustwarzen sehen") überbracht; der Lampenfuß sei aus einem menschlichen Fuß und Schienbein konstruiert gewesen. Der Anlaß sei eine Geburtstagsparty in der Villa Koch gewesen. Ackermann, der zur damaligen Zeit als Sekretär bei Doktor Hoven arbeitete, habe den Auftrag erhalten, die Lampe zur Villa Koch zu bringen. Er teilte mit, einer der Partygäste habe ihm anschließend erzählt, die Lampe sei ein Riesenerfolg gewesen.


The Schwäbische Landeszeitung report [cited multiple times by Smith: endnotes 58, 59, 64, 70, 73, on pp.248-9] states:

Senator Ackermann, der Vorsitzende des Bayerischen Journalistenverbandes, sprach als nächster Zeuge aus reicher KZ-Erfahrung. Man legte ihm gegerbte Menschenhaut-Reste mit Tätowierungen vor. „Hier erkennt man noch die Brustwarzen", sagte Ackermann.

- "Menschenhautreste mit Tätowierungen: Ilse Kochs ständiges "Stimmt nicht!", Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 1 December 1950, p.10.


Smith completely lied. Ackermann didn't say the nipples were visible on the lampshade, he said he could see nipples on the piece of skin he was just given in court.

Stein's an idiot for not checking Smith's claims. Ditto for Romanov, but he deserves extra scorn for clipping Stein's text without using an ellipsis to disguise the fact he was relying on a third-hand source.

[edit to correct formatting error]
Last edited by BRoI on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:37 am

I guess it's now an open secret as to who will will win the SSF pedantry award this year. :lol:
Last edited by Balmoral95 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Darren Wilshak » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:30 am

A head hunting tribe from Malaysia?

I'm a bit meh, not the heads again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq1LBYQk-rM

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:42 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:A head hunting tribe from Malaysia?


Yeah, Romanov's star witnesses struggled to pin point where tsantsas originated:

"cannibals of the South Seas"
- Wegerer, statement purportedly dated "23 April 1945"

Even when they did get it right, it appears to have been luck:

"prepared by the priests among the primitive peoples of South America"
- Ackermann, 21.03.47 affidavit NO-2631

"But for the first time in Europe we did something which, until that period of time, was only known from the descriptions in the journals of South Africa. That is, the manufacture of shrunken skulls"
- Ackermann, 23.04.47, NMT Pohl trial testimony


Darren Wilshak wrote:I'm a bit meh, not the heads again!

That's probably what Ilse Koch thought too:

Image
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 am

As I mentioned previously, the following "Nazi document" posted by Hans—that supposedly proves human-skin articles were produced at Buchenwald—did not feature in any of the relevant post-war trials, and appears to have been mentioned for the first time in 1957/8.

Hans wrote:The production of souvenirs from human corpses such as shrunken heads is supported by the following letter from the SS garrison doctor to the head of the pathology in concentration camp Buchenwald of 7 May 1942, which says that the production of such items has to cease immediately (which would not be necessary to order if they were not made in the first place):

Image
(Schnabel, Macht ohne Moral, p. 361)


But an entirely different "Nazi document" about the production of shrunken heads was quoted in an Austrian-communist newspaper in December 1945.

I learnt this from the same unpublished Neander study cited by Romanov. Neander describes this alleged order as "communist atrocity propaganda" and speculates the author of the newspaper article was possibly relying on Gustav Wegerer's statement—the one discussed here.

Romanov, of course, didn't mention anything about it. Whereas I went to the library to get a copy from a microfilm.

I discovered [pdf p.179] that Wegerer was actually the then-editor of this newspaper! So, he almost certainly wrote the article, which reads [tweaked GT]:

We learnt the following from a former inmate of this camp [Buchenwald]:

Standartenführer Lolling was chief of Department D III of Supreme SS leadership in Berlin. He was head of the "health care system for the concentration camps" and was responsible for the mass liquidation of anti-fascists through the use of medical killing methods. From him comes the following service order:

"To the camp physicians of the concentration camps Sachsenhausen, Dachau, Buchenwald, Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Flossenbürg, Belsen, Natzweiler: Attached you will find preparation instructions for the production of shrunken heads. Camp physicians are instructed to organise the manufacture of shrunken heads in camp pathological departments and report to Department D III on a monthly basis. Finished shrunken heads should be sent to my office along with the tanned tattoos."

Lolling had previously issued a similar order for the production of leather from tattooed and tanned human skin.

- "Die Lampenschirmfabriken der Nazi", Österreichische Volksstimme, Thursday, 20 December 1945, p.2.


So, we have a newspaper edited by one of Romanov's star witnesses publishing a clearly fake order regarding shrunken heads.

Perhaps someone might argue for its authenticity, but they would be duty-bound to explain how an order from someone as senior as Lolling was soon overruled by someone as comparatively lowly as Hoven, i.e. the document posted by Hans.
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:53 am

>"Romanov, of course, didn't mention anything about it. Whereas I went to the library to get a copy from a microfilm."

Nice. Now maybe the Shrunken Head Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow tonight.

Sanctimonious putz.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:33 am

BRoI wrote:You evidently noticed the two books have radically different versions of the same Wegerer statement, yet you opted not to mention it, why?

I assumed that those were 2 statements given in the same period (with parts recycled). Where does it state that it's the same statement?

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:39 am

BRoI wrote:That's very dishonest; you didn't even use an ellipsis!


Since between the two of us you're the only dishonest one, it is safe to assume that any such accusation is false. And indeed: since I didn't omit anything from the middle of the text, carefully cited and attributed my quote and have no obligation to mention what amounts to a footnote, there was no need for an ellipsis. So your accusation was indeed a false one, as usual.

The final sentence should read:


Um, no, it's not up to you to say what the final sentence should read.

Romanov didn't check Smith's book


And BRoI has just been caught lying again. What a dishonest rabbit!
Last edited by Sergey_Romanov on Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:42 am

BRoI wrote:As I mentioned previously, the following "Nazi document" posted by Hans—that supposedly proves human-skin articles were produced at Buchenwald—did not feature in any of the relevant post-war trials

It didn't have to be. The main thing is that it proves the shrunken heads, thus debunking poor dishonest Rabbit's fantasies.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:11 am

PS: still, very nice of the BRoI, despite his overwhelming dishonesty, to have published the fake text. It very nicely confirms the authenticity of the Hoven order. Not that there has been any doubt.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:29 am

Smith completely lied. Ackermann didn't say the nipples were visible on the lampshade, he said he could see nipples on the piece of skin he was just given in court.


Of course the quote Smith gives ("man konnte darauf die Brustwarzen sehen") is not at all the quote present in the article the Dishonest Rabbit cites ("Hier erkennt man noch die Brustwarzen"). Which implies that this is not the source Smith relied on for this paragraph (the other thing being that it doesn't have the rest of the story, which should have been a give-away lol).

So here we see one of the Rabbit's tricks that he constantly projects on the others.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby BRoI » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Smith completely lied. Ackermann didn't say the nipples were visible on the lampshade, he said he could see nipples on the piece of skin he was just given in court.


Of course the quote Smith gives ("man konnte darauf die Brustwarzen sehen") is not at all the quote present in the article the Dishonest Rabbit cites ("Hier erkennt man noch die Brustwarzen"). Which implies that this is not the source Smith relied on for this paragraph (the other thing being that it doesn't have the rest of the story, which should have been a give-away lol).

So here we see one of the Rabbit's tricks that he constantly projects on the others.


You jumped the gun; I didn't quote all of it. Here's the text relating to Ackermann in its entirety:

Senator Ackermann, der Vorsitzende des Bayerischen Journalistenverbandes, sprach als nächster Zeuge aus reicher KZ-Erfahrung. Man legte ihm gegerbte Menschenhaut-Reste mit Tätowierungen vor, „Hier erkennt man noch die Brustwarzen", sagte Ackermann. „Mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeft ist das gegerbte Menschenhaut, wie wir sie unzählige Male in Buchenwald gesehen und hergestellt haben Aber die Sache mit der Lampe und dem tätowierten Schirm kann man der Angeklagten nicht unmittelbar zuschreiben. Dieses Schmuckstück bekam ihr Mann als Geburtstagsgeschenk. Doch die höheren SS-Dienststellen erfuhren davon. Dann verschwand die Lampe mit dem Schirm wieder."

- "Menschenhautreste mit Tätowierungen: Ilse Kochs ständiges "Stimmt nicht!", Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 1 December 1950, p.10.


Smith immediately follows his two paragraphs on Ackermann's testimony with:

Arthur Smith, Die Hexe... wrote:Die Presse feierte Ackermanns Aussage als wichtige Enthüllung, übersah allerdings bewußt seine letzte Bemerkung. [p.192]


Smith's reference to Ackermann's 'last remark', i.e. that Ilse Koch could not be implicated with the manufacture of the lampshade, is very strong evidence that Smith was heavily relying on the SL 01.12.50 article. None of the other articles I've checked/found on Ackermann's testimony even mention it, never mind quote Ackermann on this point.

Although, it was clearly not from the SL 01.12.50 that Smith based his following claims:

1. Ackermann said the lamp had a human foot and shin bone base
2. Ackermann had been Dr. Hoven's secretary
3. Ackermann was ordered to take/send the lampshade to the party
4. Ackermann was later told the lampshade had been a success at the party

But a NYT article, which Smith cites on the previous page [191; endnote 58, p.248] , mentions variations of those four:

Image

Following are extracts of three more articles which reported on Ackermann's description of the lampshade, none of these are cited by Smith, and none of them mention nipples:

Daß Menschenhaut gegerbt und zu allerlei Gegenständen verarbeitet wurde, bestätigte Ackermann. Einmal habe er im Auftrag eines der Lagerärzte dem Kommandanten Karl Koch ein Geburtstagsgeschenk in dessen Villa schicken müssen. Es war eine Lampe, deren Schirm aus Stücken „besonders schön tätowierter Menschenhaut" bestand und deren Ständer ein präparierter menschlicher Fuß bildete. Der Schalter war als Druckknopf auf der kleinen Zehe angebracht.

- "Zeugen schildern grauenvolle Zustände in KZ-Lagern", Die Neue Zeitung, 30.11.50, p.10


Ackermann, der fünf Jahre lang Arztschreiber in der Lagerpathologie war, erinnerte sich noch genau, daß zum Geburtstag des Kommandanten Koch eine Stehlampe aus Menschenknochen und tätowierter Menschenhaut hergestellt und in die Villa Koch geschafft werden mußte; später sei diese Lampe jedoch in die Pathologie zurückgekommen.

- "Ilse Koch und die Menschenhaut", Süddeutsche Zeitung, 30.11.50 p.2


Another former laboratory worker, Joseph Ackermann, said the director ordered a "very special present" for [Karl] Koch's birthday, a lamp made of human skin and bone. "The light was switched on by pressure against the little toe of one of the three human feet which formed the stand."

- "Germany: Very Special Present", Time, 25 December 1950, v.56 n.26, p.23.


An AP article in a US newspaper confirms that Ackermann was shown pieces of human skin in court:

Ackermann, a Munich city official, told the court that the lamp in question was removed from the Koch household when nazi authorities, hearing of the present, order an investigation.

He described a grisly laboratory in the camp where hundreds of human skins were selected for tanning experiments.

Three squares of tattooed skin were offered as evidence. Ackermann testified they resembled those he had seen at Buchenwald.

- Buffalo Courier-Express, 30 November 1950, p.8


Findings:

1. The only article on the Augsburg-Koch trial in Smith's cited source ["Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 6. Dezember 1950] for his claim Ackermann testified that nipples were visible on the lampshade doesn't even mention Ackermann, nor human-skin, lampshades, or nipples.

2. The only article on the Augsburg-Koch trial in another source cited by Smith ["Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 1. Dezember 1950] states that Ackermann testified that the nipples were visible on a piece of tanned human-skin he was shown in court.

3. The article in Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 01.12.50, is the only article presently known to me that mentions a) Ackermann saying anything about nipples; b) Ackermann's insistence that Ilse Koch could not be implicated in the manufacture of the lampshade.

4. Considering 1, 2, 3a & 3b, especially Smith's emphasis of 3b in his text, the evidence strongly suggests that Smith relied heavily on Schwäbische Landeszeitung, 01.12.50.

People are free to believe:

A. Smith's alleged Ackermann quote is still genuine
B. Smith's false citation for the quote was an error, and isn't overly important
C. Smith's non-mention of a different Ackermann quote about nipples in another of his sources is purely coincidental
D. Somewhere out there, Smith's real source is waiting to be found.

But it would be thoroughly dishonest for HC to continue to promulgate this particular claim without at least warning your readers that it presently has no known source of origin.
Sender Jaari: And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
Rudolf Hoess: 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:52 am

> I didn't quote all of it.

So you don't quote the relevant stuff, yet you (falsely) accuse others of dishonesty when they (rightfully) omit one unimportant sentence. Hmm.

Anyway, you have shown that Smith was sloppy on the point of the nipples (though you haven't shown that he "lied"). I will update the article accordingly.

You have confirmed the rest of the description from Ackermann and that's the take-away for today.

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Re: Soaps, lampshades and shrunken heads

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:29 pm

I have read through some of the NMT discussions of the Ding diary and decided not to rely on it to establish Hoven's rank. Quite aside from any issues of authenticity the diary was proven to be unreliable specifically when it comes to the ranks of the people mentioned in it, hence it cannot prove the very I thing I used it to prove.


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