It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:19 am

I have heard of this band, Asia, but to my knowledge never heard them. The emphasis in my post was on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th370QmFtk8
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:24 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I have heard of this band, Asia, but to my knowledge never heard them. The emphasis in my post was on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th370QmFtk8


Should have picked up on it. Faaaaahhhck.

I'm so far surprised that there have been no major gaffes from Trump in this tour, apart from his annual performance review with Putin.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:36 am

And his entire approach: cut the US out of "the family of nations" when it comes to Pacific trade; but when it comes to NK beg for "the family of nations" to help him out; cede economic preeminence and political priority to China; isolate the US . . . other than that, well, fine and dandy so long as the man-child gets to see parades and pomp & circumstance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJxroq4UYhk

(used to see this band at Max's Kansas City . . . the word was to pay Mr Thunders after the gig, not before, or there wouldn't be a show that night . . . 'cuz Chinese rock)
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:20 am




I finished reading the above and it makes my stomach hurt. As someone who interviewed sexually abused children it makes me angry when I see child victims marginalized and shamed.

My wife used to watch the show on the Duggars, in fact, the family lives about 10 minutes away from my brother in Arkansas. They always struck me as screwed up and creepy, it really didn’t surprise me when sexual abuse allegations and other improprieties surfaced. I caught an episode one night when the family went swimming at a local pool. The matriarch of the family explained that she made her teenage girls dress up in concealing swimsuits to prevent anything “naughty” from showing, or something to that effect. It struck me as a really odd thing, as if she wanted conceal any aspect of sexuality from them. It didn’t seem healthy to me, almost shaming to her girls, like it was embarrassing that they were growing up.

But, this sort of predatory behavior is well-concealed, at least up until now. The sexual abuse scandals badly damaged the Catholic Church but at least made them face things they needed to face. I don’t know if any of this will happen with the evangelicals but it needs to.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Gord » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:09 am

Jeff_36 wrote:I'm so far surprised that there have been no major gaffes from Trump in this tour, apart from his annual performance review with Putin.

Maybe it's just that he's set the bar so low, you don't think his gaffs are that major anymore.

What was it he said to the Japanese? "Try building your cars in the United States instead of shipping them over?" More than half of them already are, and three quarters of them are built in either the US, Canada, or Mexico.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:28 am


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:52 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Just WOW – The GOP - the grand old party of adulterers, pussy grabbers and pedophiles, Oh my!


Steady on, need I say Anthony Wiener, Wilbur Mills, Jesse Jackson, WJ Clinton to remind folks about glass houses. There's a way to criticize this without resorting to a faux moral high ground. That's the hypocrisy straight out of the GOP playbook.


Yes, but I don`t remember the Democratic party saying it is OK, even if true.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:04 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Just WOW – The GOP - the grand old party of adulterers, pussy grabbers and pedophiles, Oh my!


Steady on, need I say Anthony Wiener, Wilbur Mills, Jesse Jackson, WJ Clinton to remind folks about glass houses. There's a way to criticize this without resorting to a faux moral high ground. That's the hypocrisy straight out of the GOP playbook.

Chris Hayes is calling on Democrats to have "a real reckoning with the allegations against" WJC. He tweeted out a Buzzfeed article on the charge made by Juanita Broaddrick that Clinton raped her in 1978 for Democrats to consider.


And I may say, Al Gore did not cover himself in glory when he was asked about the Broaddrick case during the 2000 election. He lectured the questioner like a schoolma'am, telling her, "I want you to listen to this. Whatever else Bill Clinton has done, he has atoned for it by a lifetime of public service." (Or words to that effect. Sure, being a faux-liberal politician cancels forcible rape. A natural equation.)
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:54 pm

profile of Lee Carter, the socialist who won a seat in the Virginia assembly last week
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:45 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I finished reading the above and it makes my stomach hurt. . . .

Moore: common knowledge
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:00 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I finished reading the above and it makes my stomach hurt. . . .

Moore: common knowledge


You know what's really disgusting here is the constant repetition of the mantra, "They knew and yet they did nothing all these years." For {!#%@}'s sake, you bastards! YOU try being a teenager or a young woman at the beginning of your career making felony charges against a powerful man backed by a patriarchal system! Bill and Hillary had the suppressing of bimbo eruptions honed to a fine edge. No one ever touched that son of a bitch. I still remember James Carville saying of Paula Jones, "This is what you get when you roll a nickel through a trailer park."
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:04 pm

Gord wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:I'm so far surprised that there have been no major gaffes from Trump in this tour, apart from his annual performance review with Putin.

Maybe it's just that he's set the bar so low, you don't think his gaffs are that major anymore.

What was it he said to the Japanese? "Try building your cars in the United States instead of shipping them over?" More than half of them already are, and three quarters of them are built in either the US, Canada, or Mexico.


Yeah, that was a major gaffe, but hardly noticed by the MSM. But the shitstorm that is building after his trashing of the intelligence community once again on Saturday is going to bring much more serious blowback. Can we really afford to have such a dubious character in direct conversation with Putin? I mean, he has access to EVERY BIT of classified information, and nobody ever searches the President for contraband. How easy would it be for him to be Putin's personal bag man? I think very easy indeed.

If he turns out to be as traitorous as I fear in my most paranoid moments, he'll make Kim Philby look like a patriot.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:34 pm

On the patriarchy, here's how a girl gets ahead, as depicted in a one-act French comedy, L'Apollon de Bellac (1947), which was wildly popular and made into a movie and dramatized on television. A young woman named Agnès goes looking for a secretarial job (don't even think about a managerial position!), and gets very good advice from a guy named Jouvet: Tell the boss he's handsome. She takes it to heart, with this result, in Scene VII, involving Agnès, the president of the company, and his current private secretary, Mademoiselle Chèvredent (Miss Goatstooth, although it is a real French surname).

Jean Giraudoux wrote:
LE PRÉSIDENT
Chèvredent, depuis trois ans vous exercez les hautes fonctions de secrétaire particulière. Depuis trois ans, il ne s'est point écoulé de matin et d'après-midi où la perspective de vous trouver dans mon bureau ne m'est donné la nausée...parce que vous étiez laide, j'ai eu le faible de vous croire généreuse...parce que vous avez une moustache, j'ai cru que vous aviez du coeur...Mille jours j'ai supporté de vivre avec quelqu'un qui me deteste, me méprise, et me trouve laid. Car vous me trouvez laid, n'est-ce pas?

MLLE. CHÈVREDENT
Oui. Un singe.

LE PRÉSIDENT
...Or comment suis-je réelement, Mademoiselle Agnés?

AGNÈS
Beau! Très beau!

MLLE. CHÈVREDENT
Quelle imposture!

LE PRÉSIDENT
Taisez-vous, Chèvredent. Jetez un dernier regard sur moi. Cette appréciation désintéressé de mon charme d'homme n'a pas modifié la vôtre?

MLLE. CHÈVREDENT
Vous voulez rire!

LE PRÉSIDENT
J'en prends note. Voice donc le problème, tel qu'il se pose: j'ai le choix de passer ma journée entre une personne affreuse qui me trouve laid et une personne ravissante qui me trouve beau. Tirez les conséquences. Choisissez pour moi.

MLLE. CHÈVREDENT
Cette folle me remplace.

LE PRÉSIDENT
A l'instant. Si elle le désire.


(Translation)
Pres.: Chèvredent, for three years you have been carrying out the important duties of a private secretary. For three years, not a single morning or afternoon has gone by that the prospect of finding you in my office has not filled me with disgust...Because you were ugly, I was weak enough to think you were generous...Because you have a moustache, I thought you had a heart...For a thousand days I have endured living with a person who hates me, despises me, and thinks I am ugly. For you do think I'm ugly, don't you?

Mlle. Chèvredent: Yes. You look like a monkey.

Pres.: But what am I really like, Mademoiselle Agnès?

Agnès: Handsome! Very handsome!

Mlle. Chèvredent: What impudence!

Pres.: Be quiet, Chèvredent. Take one last look at me. This objective evaluation of my masculine charm does nothing to change your evaluation of it?

Mlle. Chèvredent: You're kidding!

Pres.: Noted. So, here is the question, as it now arises: I have a choice between spending my day with a frightful-looking person who thinks I am ugly, and a ravishing one who thinks I am handsome. Draw the conclusion. Make the decision for me.

Mlle. Chèvredent: This madwoman is going to replace me.

Pres.: Immediately, if she wishes.


How many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of young French girls saw this play and took its appalling "message" to heart? Oh I know. It was just comedy, and we're not supposed to think it had a message. But of course, it did.

So there you have it, girls. In getting ahead (1) don't think of anything higher than being a secretary, (2) be sure you look glamorous, and (3) flatter the boss. That's all you need to know. No need to go to school or be competent at anything. And no use to do so, since the best you can aspire to is to take orders from some powerful male.
Last edited by Upton_O_Goode on Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:



I finished reading the above and it makes my stomach hurt. As someone who interviewed sexually abused children it makes me angry when I see child victims marginalized and shamed.

My wife used to watch the show on the Duggars, in fact, the family lives about 10 minutes away from my brother in Arkansas. They always struck me as screwed up and creepy, it really didn’t surprise me when sexual abuse allegations and other improprieties surfaced. I caught an episode one night when the family went swimming at a local pool. The matriarch of the family explained that she made her teenage girls dress up in concealing swimsuits to prevent anything “naughty” from showing, or something to that effect. It struck me as a really odd thing, as if she wanted conceal any aspect of sexuality from them. It didn’t seem healthy to me, almost shaming to her girls, like it was embarrassing that they were growing up.

But, this sort of predatory behavior is well-concealed, at least up until now. The sexual abuse scandals badly damaged the Catholic Church but at least made them face things they needed to face. I don’t know if any of this will happen with the evangelicals but it needs to.


And don't forget this charming guy. All he had to do was preach about how great it was to be naked before God, and he would get teenage girls crawling naked into his bed. I watched a documentary on the case, and the girls themselves still didn't blame him. They were eager to do it. (Which shows how undeveloped their taste in men was, probably due to the absence of any good specimens within 100 km of where they lived. Take a look at his picture.)
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:01 pm

The women I know who were abused as children to a person blamed themselves (at the time and for years afterwards); they believed they'd done something wrong or somehow caused the abuse: in some cases, at the time they told their parents (and in only some of those cases did the parents alert authorities, from what I gather); in other cases, they simply felt like {!#%@} about themselves afterwards, keeping what happened to themselves.

From what I've read in WaPo about Leigh Corfman's life, she more or less straddled these two groups, but, no, it is not odd in the least that she hasn't discussed this: not only is her telling only a few, close people about what Moore did to her believable, it is typical of the power dynamics at work.

That I know a number of people who went through such things - and who have related the experiences as adults* - says a lot about how widespread the problem is, because talking about the abuse is very difficult.

* in one case, the person is a well-known "personality" who never did say a word to friends when I knew her; I've read about her experiences and troubles only in the media long after I knew her; this individual told her mother about the abuse, from what I understand, but the situation was compounded because the abuser was her own father
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:30 pm

Pat Toomey (R-PA): “I have to say, I think the accusations [against Roy Moore] have more credibility than the denial. Many of us, I’ll speak for myself, would prefer for Roy to step aside. I think that’s a responsible way to approach this.”

I take Toomey at his word on this, and I don't doubt that he speaks for other Capitol Hill Republicans, who do not want this stink on the party in '18 or who are simply appalled. But . . . that the GOP is unable to clean up this mess promptly, and may not at all, shows the degree to which the party is Trumpified, its hardcore base is noxious, and, as Balmoral noted, the temptation to use frightful means, and to overlook nearly anything, to have power is indeed corrosive and corrupting.

Reminder, as we trot out the backwards 'bama jokes (I am thinking of myself): the Southern Poverty Law Center is located in Montgomery, AL; as one of the pieces I linked to yesterday noted, this problem is not geographical but rather part of a patriarchal mindset, as Upton posted
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The women I know who were abused as children to a person blamed themselves (at the time and for years afterwards); they believed they'd done something wrong or somehow caused the abuse: in some cases, at the time they told their parents (and in only some of those cases did the parents alert authorities, from what I gather); in other cases, they simply felt like {!#%@} about themselves afterwards, keeping what happened to themselves.


That was the official position taken by a lot of Catholic clergy also: The little hussies (boys, mostly) seduced all those poor innocent priests. We may now find out that this was at least equally common in evangelical circles. I believe John Updike once wrote a novel, supposedly the diary of an Anglican priest who was given the country-club prison of an official mental asylum run by the church for his sins, although the diary makes it clear he was perfectly sane. But the Anglicans, as I know (because my wife and daughter are both Anglican clergy), now take a high line and are sworn to turn all accused of this offense over to the secular arm, along with all the evidence.

I always thought Billy Graham was genuine and not corrupt—grotesquely ignorant, but well-meaning and honest—but there is no other major evangelical figure I can think of who automatically draws that response from me. I'm not surprised that Billy's grandson is leading the fight for openness on this issue.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:36 pm

The most tragic and saddest case known to me personally was that of a young woman who worked in the office with me. She was a very good typist with her left hand. She had to be because her right hand was paralyzed into a permanent clenched fist due to a stroke. Everybody just assumed she had had a stroke, but she told me the real story, which was one she didn't want people to know. As a teenager, she had been hitchhiking at night. She was picked up and raped by two guys, who told her they would kill her if she said anything, then beat her into unconsciousness and left her by the road. That left her with the paralyzed right arm and subject to epileptic seizures (she had one while working at the office). She also showed me the scars on her wrists where she had tried to commit suicide. Some years later, I learned that she had died, still in her late 30s. And the two pieces of human slime who committed this outrage were never even arrested. She knew who they were and where they lived, but she was afraid to accuse them.

And she wouldn't tell anyone except people she could trust to keep secret the actual truth. She said, quite truly, that people would blame her for being so irresponsible as to hitchhike alone at night. (She was a TEENAGER, for Christ's sake!). And she was right. Just imagine what a prosecuting attorney would do to her on the witness stand. Blame the victim is what psychologists tell us we all do if we can't actually help them. Certainly, she'd get very little sympathy from most people. They are uncomfortable with such abominations and desperately struggle to retain the belief that they can't happen if you are just careful. (So, as thousands of women in Berlin and Vienna know, be careful not to live in a city that is on the losing side of a war.)
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Well, this is interesting: a JMC analytics poll has 37% of Alabama evangelicals more likely to vote for Roy Moore having learned of the accusations against him. At the same time, a plurality of the Alabamans polled are now less likely to vote for the pedophile. And the same poll now shows Democrat Doug Jones leading Moore, 46%-42%. I've heard that Alabama polls are not very accurate but this is a dramatic shift.

Trump is doing what he can to protect his fellow abuser: today Trump's WH senior advisor Marc Short begged for time - so that Moore can figure out a more plausible and convincing defense and so that voters might forget. The WH has seemingly discovered the "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" standard and is applying it not to the courtroom but to a Senate run. I might also have a bit of a quibble with the WH on the definition of "reasonable." Mind-boggling stuff.

Where is gorgeous when we most need someone to lead us through this pig-sty?
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Trump tracker, 5 pt swing in Trump's favor overnight, now at 39/55 (-16), best since 1 October, when he was -15.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:03 pm

Crikey, (((they))) have gotten to Our Leader: he's been compelled to backtrack on his support for Vlad's "interpretation" of election interference and on his describing US intelligence folks as hacks; his forced recantation - reading like one of those hostage tapes - says that he is now “with our agencies” on election interference. #freedonny #freethehostage #maga
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The women I know who were abused as children to a person blamed themselves (at the time and for years afterwards); they believed they'd done something wrong or somehow caused the abuse: in some cases, at the time they told their parents (and in only some of those cases did the parents alert authorities, from what I gather); in other cases, they simply felt like {!#%@} about themselves afterwards, keeping what happened to themselves.


It’s also quite common in situations like this with girls (and boys) to quickly recant once they face backlash. We generally accepted the first statements as the truth and anything afterwards as the result of this backlash. Unfortunately defense attorneys would hammer this in front of a jury. Now all children who are placed into custody for sexual abuse (and severe physical abuse) are forensically interviewed and the sessions taped.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:48 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:That was the official position taken by a lot of Catholic clergy also: The little hussies (boys, mostly) seduced all those poor innocent priests.


I always found that grotesque. Children are not “sexual,” they have no context for that type of behavior, it has to be learned. This is a powerful red flag, children acting out in this manner, particularly with children younger than them.


But the Anglicans, as I know (because my wife and daughter are both Anglican clergy), now take a high line and are sworn to turn all accused of this offense over to the secular arm, along with all the evidence.


It’s a state law in Oklahoma, anyone over the age of 18 is a “mandatory reporter,” required to report any instance of child abuse, even where it is only suspected. This is not the case in all states, in some it is only professionals (doctors, judges, police officers, etc.).

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Trump tracker, 5 pt swing in Trump's favor overnight, now at 39/55 (-16), best since 1 October, when he was -15.



People forget about the crazy when he is not in the country, he looks “presidential.”

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:45 pm

checking in from Breitlandia: Breitbart has been digging into WaPo's Roy Moore reporting. Today Breitbart first made half their front page a screaming pair of headlines claiming that the WaPo report has been discredited - because of a major flaw in Leigh Corfman's story. On reading the piece it turns out that Leigh recalls the phone which Moore called as being in her bedroom, whilst, pressed by Breitbart reporters, her mother recalls that there wasn't a phone in Leigh's bedroom. I read the story through several times to make sure that this was all. Yup.

Lately they've updated the masthead to say, "EXCLUSIVE – Mother of Roy Moore Accuser: Washington Post Reporters Convinced My Daughter to Go Public." Clearly, their reporters have been working the mother over, er, chatting with the mother. The piece quotes Corfman's mother as telling Breitbart that it was the WaPo reporters who called her daughter (which we have known since the story broke - and we've also known that all those interviewed were, according to WaPo, reluctant to tell their stories); this non-revelation presented as shocking is, to use a Sen Gorka-ism, another giant nothing burger. Indeed, deep into the Breitbart piece it is conceded that the WaPo story noted that the reporters had "approached the women." The technique here is to make non-news appear to be devious, nearly criminal behavior - with wild headlines, deceptive phrasing, and strategically placed adjectives. Sickening.

Breitbart will now be relentlessly going after the Post (possibly a winning move on its merits in Trumpland) and tearing down Corfman.

(Interestingly, the second Breitbart story quotes Corfman's mother as explaining, “It wasn’t done for politics, you know. It was done for personal reasons. And it wouldn’t have been done if the reporters hadn’t contacted my daughter.” Yet Breitbart continues to hit on the "political attack" line - on Friday they described one of the older teens as now an ardent anti-Trumper: this earth-shattering expose - reporters seeking out people to interview - shows “activist behavior on the part of the Washington Post reporters.” I worry for Leigh Corfman and her mother, this will be a 2nd hell to go through, courtesy the fine people at Breitbart.)
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:57 pm

And here's another detail on the Alabama race to make Ian, gorgeous, Paul Anthony and all Trumpers proud: a man interviewed in Gallant, AL, told NBC of Moore that "This is Republican town, man. (Moore) could have killed Obama, and we wouldn't care."

Think I'm kidding? Think again.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:33 am

Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:13 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And here's another detail on the Alabama race to make Ian, gorgeous, Paul Anthony and all Trumpers proud: a man interviewed in Gallant, AL, told NBC of Moore that "This is Republican town, man. (Moore) could have killed Obama, and we wouldn't care."

Think I'm kidding? Think again.


Interesting use of the passive voice... just close enough to the line to convey the threat whilst avoiding a felony conviction.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:55 am

Alabama polling since WaPo story:
Emerson - Moore +10
JMC Analytics - Jones +4
Opinion Savvy - tie

If the Democrats didn't need this seat so badly, I'd say let the Republicans send the loon to Congress - and whip them about the head with his lunacy for the next couple years. Alabama is not representative of the country as a whole, far from it; Virginia is closer . . .

As it is, I wonder if the Dems shouldn't step back on the topic of Mr Moore's sex crimes (people who live in Bill Clinton's house should not throw stones) and let nature take its course . . .
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Alabama polling since WaPo story:
Emerson - Moore +10
JMC Analytics - Jones +4
Opinion Savvy - tie

If the Democrats didn't need this seat so badly, I'd say let the Republicans send the loon to Congress - and whip them about the head with his lunacy for the next couple years. Alabama is not representative of the country as a whole, far from it; Virginia is closer . . .



The reality is I don’t think it makes any difference, it’s likely Moore gets elected. Moore is a Republican in a heavily Republican State, Bible babblers happily forgive Republicans.

But, I think it’s a good idea to contest every seat as hard as possible.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 am


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:05 pm

Bit of relief from the news. My son sent me this link, to a group that had up to now flown under my aged radar. I must agree with the comments. I think Jerry would have felt honored:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIPPHs3zMg&sns=em
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And here's another detail on the Alabama race to make Ian, gorgeous, Paul Anthony and all Trumpers proud: a man interviewed in Gallant, AL, told NBC of Moore that "This is Republican town, man. (Moore) could have killed Obama, and we wouldn't care."

Think I'm kidding? Think again.


"We wouldn't care"??? Of course they'd care. They'd clap and cheer and spend a week celebrating. (No kidding. School children in Dallas clapped and cheered when they were told about the Kennedy assassination. The kids are innocent, but they had certainly heard their parents speak of Kennedy in apocalyptic tones.)
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:18 pm

"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:39 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:"We wouldn't care"??? Of course they'd care. They'd clap and cheer and spend a week celebrating. (No kidding. School children in Dallas clapped and cheered when they were told about the Kennedy assassination. The kids are innocent, but they had certainly heard their parents speak of Kennedy in apocalyptic tones.)

There's a LIFE book of photos from the '60s that sports an image of a movie theater in Georgia advertising "PT-109" on the marquee: "Come see the Japs almost get Kennedy." Japs. Kill Kennedy.

Still. A single kid in my classroom in Pennsyltucky - and I still remember his name - applauded as it became clear that Kennedy had been assassinated, late in that school day. It was eerie. The radio came through the intercom in small bursts, we could just catch phrases. We could barely piece the scenario together - LBJ was flying back to DC to be sworn in, in Dallas someone had shot Kennedy, JFK was really dead. This one kid just thought it was great and funny and started clapping giddily. A teacher lifted him out of his seat and pinned him high against the wall, holding him there like a fluttering moth and screaming at him. My home county has not, btw, voted Democratic in a presidential election since voting for Andrew Jackson . . . in 1960 Nixon had gotten 80% of the vote, so it wasn't sympathy for JFK that had made the teacher snap: back then, some unreconstructed rebels aside, in most of the country you simply didn't accept killing a president, not like today, apparently.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:But, I think it’s a good idea to contest every seat as hard as possible.

For sure. I was suggesting that, in contesting the seat, that the Dems shouldn't make the pedophilia central, given their own tolerance of Clinton, etc.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:02 pm

no "gaffes" - does The Handshake count? - but FSS (Duterte serenading Orange Anus Face, “You are the love I’ve been waiting for”???)
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm

In the Virginia assembly voting last week, Democrats received about 9% more votes across the state than Republicans: despite the landslide proportions of the voting in favor of the Democrats, they will either win the same number of seats as Republicans or one seat less. Implications for 2018.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:[ it wasn't sympathy for JFK that had made the teacher snap: back then, some unreconstructed rebels aside, in most of the country you simply didn't accept killing a president, not like today, apparently.


Yes, there was a thing called bipartisanship, especially in foreign policy, where it is crucial for the national interest. And Eisenhower, early in the Kennedy Presidency, championed the British concept of "the loyal opposition." We still have the opposition, in spades, but it sure as hell isn't loyal.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:46 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:no "gaffes" - does The Handshake count? - but FSS (Duterte serenading Orange Anus Face, “You are the love I’ve been waiting for”???)


Truly never met an odious, blood-thirsty dictator he didn't simply LOVE!

And Hickabee is lying about it already, saying human rights came up in the course of a discussion on drug trafficking. Duterte immediately denied that it had been mentioned.

So, now two for two: Trump lies, and his dictator/boy friends rat him out.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller


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