It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 am

Party like it's 1899.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:43 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:"Conway Confirms Trump’s Personal Attorney Wrote POTUS Flynn Tweet"

Kellyanne Conway's word on this is golden. Given her track record. After all, she was the person who "confirmed" the Bowling Green massacre.


And, as "Roland Hedley" is pointing out, whoever wrote it is a master of the Trump style. This claim begins to look dubious. I can believe a lawyer thought up the strategy of claiming Trump didn't write the tweet. But WHOSE thumbs were on the keys when it went out? Why would Trump turn his Twitter account (his most precious possession) over to someone else? My eyebrows are still raised.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And Iowa is Trump Country, where the economy is all the talk: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/i ... red-racism


Ah the great American Farm Belt! Friendliest people in the world. (I speak of what I know here. These guys could easily have been my family. I doubt if broadcasting high-school basketball games was their day job, however, so they really haven't been punished except symbolically.)
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:at last . . .

- Nicole Simpson's killer
- the Reichstag Fire co-conspirators
- Geli Raubel's murderer
- the killer of JonBenet Ramsey
- the man who knows where Hoffa was buried
- Olof Palme's shooter

. . . unmasked!

John Dowd done it!


Nicely done, and two days ahead of Andy Borowitz's column (see Balmoral 95's link below), with the same premise!
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Hmm, I'm betting the situation of our beleaguered Pres just got a lot worse. Just have to wait and see what Mueller's people find here.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:01 pm

In case you didn't have enough to worry about already. Maybe this is the canary in the Wall Street coal mine?
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:10 pm

Well, I guess this clears up the matter of the missed deadline for the six-month waiver on moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Now we know exactly what is going to happen:

Jared Kushner wrote: The president’s going to make his decision.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:13 pm

"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Hmm, I'm betting the situation of our beleaguered Pres just got a lot worse. Just have to wait and see what Mueller's people find here.

Meltdown coming.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:27 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Three days of MAGA.

In all honesty, the Republicans never were what The Independent says they stood for: leave aside the whole Party of No thing from the Obama era and think just of one point the writer tackles, fiscal responsibility. "Fiscal responsibility" has long been a slogan with which Republicans beat the Democrats (especially when Democrats have power) - or to force cutbacks in government spending (especially when Republicans are in power). There's been little principled in this for decades.

E.g., from The Balance:

President George W. Bush: Total = $3.293 trillion, a 57 percent increase.

FY 2009 - $1.16 trillion. ($1.413 trillion minus $253 billion from Obama's Stimulus Act)
FY 2008 - $459 billion.
FY 2007 - $161 billion.
FY 2006 - $248 billion.
FY 2005 - $318 billion.
FY 2004 - $413 billion.
FY 2003 - $378 billion.
FY 2002 - $158 billion.

President Bill Clinton: Total = $63 billion surplus, a 1 percent decrease.

FY 2001 - $128 billion surplus.
FY 2000 - $236 billion surplus.
FY 1999 - $126 billion surplus.
FY 1998 - $69 billion surplus.
FY 1997 - $22 billion.
FY 1996 - $107 billion.
FY 1995 - $164 billion.
FY 1994 - $203 billion.

President George H.W. Bush: Total = $1.036 trillion, a 36 percent increase.

FY 1993 - $255 billion.
FY 1992 - $290 billion.
FY 1991 - $269 billion.
FY 1990 - $221 billion.

President Ronald Reagan: Total = $1.412 trillion, a 142 percent increase

FY 1989 - $153 billion.
FY 1988 - $155 billion.
FY 1987 - $150 billion.
FY 1986 - $221 billion.
FY 1985 - $212 billion.
FY 1984 - $185 billion.
FY 1983 - $208 billion.
FY 1982 - $128 billion.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 pm

Q: Why are the White House and badly made-up whore Alan Dershowitz (on FOX) pushing the chimera that the President is above the law and cannot illegally obstruct justice?

A: Because they know that volumes more evidence of Trump's obstructing justice is coming.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Speak of Trump going ballistic - this is the sort of crazy the Democrats need to be coming up with - McKay Coppins reports thus in The Atlantic:
On friday, october 7, 2016, The Washington Post published the Access Hollywood tape that showed Trump gloating about his penchant for grabbing women “by the pussy,” and instantly upended the campaign. Republicans across the country withdrew their endorsements, and conservative editorial boards called on Trump to drop out of the race. Most alarming to the aides and operatives inside Trump Tower, Mike Pence suddenly seemed at risk of going rogue. . . .

It’s been reported that Pence sent Trump a letter saying he needed time to decide whether he could stay with the campaign. But in fact, according to several Republicans familiar with the situation, he wasn’t just thinking about dropping out—he was contemplating a coup. Within hours of The Post’s bombshell, Pence made it clear to the Republican National Committee that he was ready to take Trump’s place as the party’s nominee. Such a move just four weeks before Election Day would have been unprecedented—but the situation seemed dire enough to call for radical action.

. . . Meanwhile, a small group of billionaires was trying to put together money for a “buyout”—even going so far as to ask a Trump associate how much money the candidate would require to walk away from the race. According to someone with knowledge of the talks, they were given an answer of $800 million. (It’s unclear whether Trump was aware of this discussion or whether the offer was actually made.) Republican donors and party leaders began buzzing about making Pence the nominee and drafting Condoleezza Rice as his running mate.

Amid the chaos, Trump convened a meeting of his top advisers in his Manhattan penthouse. He went around the room and asked each person for his damage assessment. Priebus bluntly told Trump he could either drop out immediately or lose in a historic landslide. According to someone who was present, Priebus added that Pence and Rice were “ready to step in.”

Meltdown Part II.

The Dems need to start being all about bad craziness to force two, three, many Trumpian meltdowns. Drive the {!#%@} absolutely mad.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Speak of Trump going ballistic

The Dems need to start being all about bad craziness to force two, three, many Trumpian meltdowns. Drive the {!#%@} absolutely mad.


With what is now coming out, it's more of a putt than a drive, but for sure, let's keep the pressure on. The Access Hollywood tape would surely have been the end of anybody's candidacy before. Only Trump was evil enough to tough it out and drag the whole party into the sewer along with him. Bill Bennett used to accuse Bill Clinton of "defining deviance downward" and "coarsening the public arena." He could never have imagined it would ever come to this.

Look back and sigh. IF ONLY Trump's opponent had been anyone besides Hillary Clinton...
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:28 pm

Excellent summary of Flynn's situation: "Trump Officials Repeatedly Pushed Flynn’s Bogus Story Of Russia Contacts".

This, on the Trump-Russia same-day response to Obama's levying of new Russia sanctions, struck me as indicative of channels having been established and contacts being routine: "When Obama sanctioned Russia on Dec. 28 for its interference in the 2016 elections, Mueller’s team wrote, Kislyak had called Flynn. On the 29th Flynn reached out to 'a senior official of the presidential transition team,' identified by the AP as K. T. McFarland, who became Trump’s deputy national security adviser (now his nominee for ambassador to Singapore), who was at Mar-a-Lago with the president . . ."

Kislyak knew at once whom to contact, and Flynn knew too how to get the president's input.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Speak of Trump going ballistic

The Dems need to start being all about bad craziness to force two, three, many Trumpian meltdowns. Drive the {!#%@} absolutely mad.


With what is now coming out, it's more of a putt than a drive, but for sure, let's keep the pressure on. . . . Look back and sigh. IF ONLY Trump's opponent had been anyone besides Hillary Clinton...

I view the Republicans and Trump as more tenacious and secure; only all-out combat - including surprises, whackadoo tactics, and creative disruption - will dislodge Trump and his associates: I feel that an all-out assault of bad craziness is what's called for. As Jeffk has said, the Democrats need to take the gloves off.

As to Clinton, the same folks who brought us that disaster remain in charge of the Democratic party. So my hopes here are indeed a pipe dream.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:27 pm


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:29 pm

And the Democrats need to denounce Conyers' effort to install his son in his seat. Repulsive.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:32 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, this will be an actual campaign promise that Trump fulfills, even it pisses off the allies and disrupts the region:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/trump-israel-considering-jerusalem-capital/index.html


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/trump-abbas-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html

This is a really bad move, I don’t see the benefits of doing this.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:34 pm

Stephen Moore, a right-wing economist and Trump supporter, explains how the GOP tax plan will destroy the Democratic party - not because it's popular and the Dems opposed it but because it is less a tax bill and more a political assault:

“They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments, and universities have become play pens of the left. And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.” As a result of the repeal of the individual mandate, Moore added, the tax bill will intensify “a death spiral” in the ACA exchanges. “It’s death to Democrats,” Moore boasted.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:39 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, this will be an actual campaign promise that Trump fulfills, even it pisses off the allies and disrupts the region:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/trump-israel-considering-jerusalem-capital/index.html


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/trump-abbas-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html

This is a really bad move, I don’t see the benefits of doing this.

Somewhat in this vein, Germany's view on Trump, MAGA and the first 319 days of this travesty of a presidency: "Trump policies starting to ‘crumble’ traditional U.S.-Europe ties, German foreign minister warns"
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.” As a result of the repeal of the individual mandate, Moore added, the tax bill will intensify “a death spiral” in the ACA exchanges. “It’s death to Democrats,” Moore boasted.


Except that right now the ACA is more popular than the Republicans......they didn’t think this one through.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:43 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, this will be an actual campaign promise that Trump fulfills, even it pisses off the allies and disrupts the region:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/trump-israel-considering-jerusalem-capital/index.html


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/trump-abbas-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html

This is a really bad move, I don’t see the benefits of doing this.

Somewhat in this vein, Germany's view on Trump, MAGA and the first 319 days of this travesty of a presidency: "Trump policies starting to ‘crumble’ traditional U.S.-Europe ties, German foreign minister warns"


Trumpism? Bannonism? Either way it’s a disaster to pull away from our traditional allies.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.” As a result of the repeal of the individual mandate, Moore added, the tax bill will intensify “a death spiral” in the ACA exchanges. “It’s death to Democrats,” Moore boasted.


Except that right now the ACA is more popular than the Republicans......they didn’t think this one through.

I think he means in terms of naked power - and he expects that the "masses" will continue to slumber or lap up the BS. His points are that the bill destroys a signature "Dem" social program - and kicks the legs out from underneath Democratic political power (unions and universities!). He believes by undermining the power of unions and "academic freedom" (ha ha) the Republicans have crippled their opponents.

There's very little left that's democratic (small d) in today's Republican party and its "intellectual" cheerleaders.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:57 pm

Process matters, and when John McCain, hero, championed irregular order with the tax bill he championed this sort of thing:
A last-minute change that U.S. senators made to their tax bill before passing it early Saturday morning would result in higher-than-intended taxes for technology firms and other corporations, tax experts said.

In a shift now under scrutiny by corporate tax officials and lawmakers alike, Senate tax-writers made an unexpected decision to keep the existing 20 percent alternative minimum tax for corporations -- a move that imperils GOP promises of business growth and more hiring, tax lawyers and lobbyists said.

Keeping the provision -- which had been set for repeal in an earlier version of the bill -- was “a very unpleasant surprise,” wrote Caroline L. Harris, chief tax counsel for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, in an article titled “The Alternative Minimum Tax Bombshell.” The chamber and other groups are calling for repealing the AMT. . . .

A simple “drafting error” most likely left the AMT in the Senate bill at 20 percent, said Jennifer McCloskey, director of government affairs at the Information Technology Industry Council, a group that represents tech companies including Google, Oracle and Amazon. Congress should repeal the AMT completely or cut it to a level proportionate to the new 20 percent corporate tax rate, she said.

Frankly, I don't buy their dire warnings on this. But . . . hoist on their own petard . . . ?

House Ways and Means Chairman Kevin Brady (in charge of the conference committee negotiations), is saying today, according to Bloomberg, that addressing this Senate own-goal is “one of the priorities” for the conference committee.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:59 pm

. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.” As a result of the repeal of the individual mandate, Moore added, the tax bill will intensify “a death spiral” in the ACA exchanges. “It’s death to Democrats,” Moore boasted.


Except that right now the ACA is more popular than the Republicans......they didn’t think this one through.

I think he means in terms of naked power - and he expects that the "masses" will continue to slumber or lap up the BS. His points are that the bill destroys a signature "Dem" social program - and kicks the legs out from underneath Democratic political power (unions and universities!). He believes by undermining the power of unions and "academic freedom" (ha ha) the Republicans have crippled their opponents.

There's very little left that's democratic (small d) in today's Republican party and its "intellectual" cheerleaders.



I think 2018 will tell us where we are heading.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:04 pm

2018 is yuuuuge.

The optimistic view is that it's the year for women and young people which the Dems confuse as support for their decrepit party. :)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:48 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Frankly, I don't buy their dire warnings on this. But . . . hoist on their own petard . . . ?

House Ways and Means Chairman Kevin Brady (in charge of the conference committee negotiations), is saying today, according to Bloomberg, that addressing this Senate own-goal is “one of the priorities” for the conference committee.


Yes indeed! That's what happens when you rush a bill through without giving anybody time to read it. Well, guys, you voted it, you're stuck with it, at least until "reconciliation."
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:53 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Trumpism? Bannonism? Either way it’s a disaster to pull away from our traditional allies.


This is why Putin absolutely adores Trump. Again, you have to ask yourself. In practical terms, what could a US President do worse than this to weaken the US on the international level? You can't prove by citing anything that has actually happened that Trump ISN'T a Russian agent.

I've heard that Trump plans to announce the relocation of the embassy to Jerusalem tomorrow. He has kissed enough Saudi ass that he can depend on them not to make an issue of it, and maybe even to try to cool down Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon. But Turkey is going to be mad as hell about this, and probably the Iraqis also. And Putin gets yet another opening for Russian influence in the Arab/Muslim world. This whole year has been a big win for Putin, as far as i can see.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:01 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
I've heard that Trump plans to announce the relocation of the embassy to Jerusalem tomorrow. He has kissed enough Saudi ass that he can depend on them not to make an issue of it, and maybe even to try to cool down Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon. But Turkey is going to be mad as hell about this, and probably the Iraqis also. And Putin gets yet another opening for Russian influence in the Arab/Muslim world. This whole year has been a big win for Putin, as far as i can see.


I’ve posted a couple of stories on this.

Logically moving the embassy makes no sense, you are simply painting a giant target on it and putting US lives at risk. You also increase the chance of terrorist attacks in Jerusalem itself and its a great recruitment tool for terrorist groups.

But, Trump will go his own way with this. There is absolutely no point except for Trump to thumb his nose at the rest of the world.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:19 pm

Another terrific own-goal for the Trump team, this time it's Hickabee getting bitten in the ass by her own words. She needs to go out to a bar with Lindsey Graham, so they can cry in each other's beer.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:36 pm

:lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:22 pm

Today's oxymoron: principled Republican.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:25 pm

Roy Moore speaks about his enemies, in particular George Soros:
He is pushing an agenda and his agenda is sexual in nature, his agenda is liberal, and not what Americans need. It’s not our American culture. Soros comes from another world that I don’t identify with. I wish I could face him directly. And I’d tell him the same thing. No matter how much money he’s got, he’s still going to the same place that people who don’t recognize God and morality and accept his salvation are going. And that’s not a good place.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:26 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thinking about it a bit more, I'd say probably not more than 45% enthusiastic, could be as low as 40%, agreed. But I'm sticking with a lot of whupped dogs. Just read that the RNC, after barking so bravely, will fund Roy Moore after all: whupped. :)

(I think a lot of them wanted to be more of a traditional conservative party but he broke them during the 2016 campaign . . . and keeps breaking them . . . )


Think back to that 2016 line up at the beginning.... Trump knew he had that pathetic offering by the bollocks from day one. It looked like an Eisenhower convention after-party.... 15 boring, useless and stupid.

Don't know where this lies along the "enthusiasm" spectrum: according to a large PRRI survey of American voters' values and attitudes (with generally negative results for Trump and the Republicans), "More than six in ten (63%) Republicans say they would prefer Trump be the Republican Party’s nominee for the 2020 election. . . . Trump is well-regarded among Republicans, but he fares particularly well among those who have a strong attachment to the GOP. More than nine in ten (91%) “strong” Republicans approve of the job Trump is doing as president . . ."

According to the survey:
Despite his low approval ratings, Trump retains considerable support among those who identify with or lean toward the Republican Party:
• 18% are Never Trump, neither supporting him in the past nor for 2020;
• 23% are leaning away from Trump, having supported him in the past but not for 2020;
• 19% are leaning toward Trump, not having supported him in the past but now supporting him for 2020; and
• 40% are Always Trump, supporting him over other Republican candidates both in the past and for 2020.

Views of Trump are "stratified by race"; and "White evangelical Protestants continue to be among Trump’s strongest supporters." Also, "Trump has strong support among Republicans overall and key groups in his base, such as white evangelical Protestants, whites without a college degree, and white men."

Notably, by over 2x, Republicans are more "excited" by Trump's presidency today than were Democrats by Obama's presidency in 2011.

Some authoritarian attitudes, by my definition, and especially among Strong Trumpers, come through clearly in PRRI's data:
- "Most (55%) Americans believe that professional athletes should be required to stand during the national anthem at sporting events."
- "Americans are generally distrusting of reporters’ motives and agendas. A majority (53%) of Americans think most reporters have a personal or political agenda . . ."
- "Roughly two-thirds (66%) of Republicans in the Always Trump group agree that 'because things have gotten so far off track in this country, we need a leader who is willing to break some rules if that’s what it takes to set things right.' . . ."

The survey summary: https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... rvey-2017/
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:23 pm

As I understand this story - "Donald Trump Jr. asked Russian lawyer for info on Clinton Foundation" - if true, it means that Trump Jr engaged in a felony (soliciting something of value for the Trump campaign from a foreign entity) and that Trump Sr & his associates are again exposed as lying about Russia matters (having denied such solicitations).

Now, it is also possible the Veleshniskaya is covering her ass - or that she is telling a partial truth, in short, that she's covering her ass on some matters whilst Trump Jr did at the same time make such a solicitation:
Donald Trump Jr. asked a Russian lawyer at the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting whether she had evidence of illegal donations to the Clinton Foundation, the lawyer told the Senate Judiciary Committee in answers to written questions obtained exclusively by NBC News.

The lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, told the committee that she didn't have any such evidence, and that she believes Trump misunderstood the nature of the meeting after receiving emails from a music promoter promising incriminating information on Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump's Democratic opponent.

Once it became apparent that she did not have meaningful information about Clinton, Trump seemed to lose interest, Veselnitskaya said, and the meeting petered out.

Only via corruption - look at a comparison of Trump's administration for swampy indictments/convictions of officials vs other recent administrations - do I think that the stink here be contained.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Drain the Dump!
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thinking about it a bit more, I'd say probably not more than 45% enthusiastic, could be as low as 40%, agreed. But I'm sticking with a lot of whupped dogs. Just read that the RNC, after barking so bravely, will fund Roy Moore after all: whupped. :)

(I think a lot of them wanted to be more of a traditional conservative party but he broke them during the 2016 campaign . . . and keeps breaking them . . . )


Think back to that 2016 line up at the beginning.... Trump knew he had that pathetic offering by the bollocks from day one. It looked like an Eisenhower convention after-party.... 15 boring, useless and stupid.

Don't know where this lies along the "enthusiasm" spectrum: according to a large PRRI survey of American voters' values and attitudes (with generally negative results for Trump and the Republicans), "More than six in ten (63%) Republicans say they would prefer Trump be the Republican Party’s nominee for the 2020 election. . . . Trump is well-regarded among Republicans, but he fares particularly well among those who have a strong attachment to the GOP. More than nine in ten (91%) “strong” Republicans approve of the job Trump is doing as president . . ."

According to the survey:
Despite his low approval ratings, Trump retains considerable support among those who identify with or lean toward the Republican Party:
• 18% are Never Trump, neither supporting him in the past nor for 2020;
• 23% are leaning away from Trump, having supported him in the past but not for 2020;
• 19% are leaning toward Trump, not having supported him in the past but now supporting him for 2020; and
• 40% are Always Trump, supporting him over other Republican candidates both in the past and for 2020.

Views of Trump are "stratified by race"; and "White evangelical Protestants continue to be among Trump’s strongest supporters." Also, "Trump has strong support among Republicans overall and key groups in his base, such as white evangelical Protestants, whites without a college degree, and white men."

Notably, by over 2x, Republicans are more "excited" by Trump's presidency today than were Democrats by Obama's presidency in 2011.

Some authoritarian attitudes, by my definition, and especially among Strong Trumpers, come through clearly in PRRI's data:
- "Most (55%) Americans believe that professional athletes should be required to stand during the national anthem at sporting events."
- "Americans are generally distrusting of reporters’ motives and agendas. A majority (53%) of Americans think most reporters have a personal or political agenda . . ."
- "Roughly two-thirds (66%) of Republicans in the Always Trump group agree that 'because things have gotten so far off track in this country, we need a leader who is willing to break some rules if that’s what it takes to set things right.' . . ."

The survey summary: https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... rvey-2017/


Danke. Now I'm thoroughly depressed :lol:

Anyway, very interesting though not surprising.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Q: Why are the White House and badly made-up whore Alan Dershowitz (on FOX) pushing the chimera that the President is above the law and cannot illegally obstruct justice?

A: Because they know that volumes more evidence of Trump's obstructing justice is coming.


Dersh is a total cont. I'd almost guarantee he's on retainer to Trump already for years.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:24 am

Yup. I admit that I liked having lunch at his short-lived deli until it went out of business in some dispute among partners or on account of a financial meltdown or whatever - and yet have long found Dershowitz to be a bigmouth self-promoter and little else, even when enjoying pastrami on rye on Winthrop St in Cambridge.

Here are two "delicious" pieces on his most recent disingenuous shilling, showing Dershowitz to be a charlatan, but doing so in measured, polite, legalistic skewering:

Benjamin Wittes: "Five Questions for Alan Dershowitz on the Criminalization of Political Differences"

Bob Bauer: "Alan Dershowitz’s Worries About the Russia Investigation and the Criminalization of Politics"
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817


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