It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What I've been reading - and I toss this out more as a question because I've been working on, er, work and in downtime on other things - has it that Asian countries - including and especially South Korea - are very concerned about US rhetoric (all options on the table, end of strategic patience, etc) and volatility (preemptive strike discussion) with regard to Korea and are interested in easing the pressure, so that the situation is not one where simple miscalculations can set off bad consequences and in diplomacy.

One piece summarized the point this way, "The AP reports that Trump is finding Asian allies cool to a preemptive strike and The Washington Post Tokyo bureau chief last night suggested on Twitter that people in the region are more worried about rash action from President Trump than North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, which is really quite an achievement if you think about it." (TPM)


That makes a lot of sense - with Trump being the immediate threat and NK being a future threat. Lots of time left for diplomacy IF you don`t believe that military force is inevitable. If the US strikes now, it only loses thousands of lives – those in the military and those who would be convinced to join, while SK in particular might lose millions. Japan too if NK can deliver nuclear tipped missiles this far.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:09 pm

Thanks.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:33 pm

"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balsamo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:40 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:What I've been reading - and I toss this out more as a question because I've been working on, er, work and in downtime on other things - has it that Asian countries - including and especially South Korea - are very concerned about US rhetoric (all options on the table, end of strategic patience, etc) and volatility (preemptive strike discussion) with regard to Korea and are interested in easing the pressure, so that the situation is not one where simple miscalculations can set off bad consequences and in diplomacy.

One piece summarized the point this way, "The AP reports that Trump is finding Asian allies cool to a preemptive strike and The Washington Post Tokyo bureau chief last night suggested on Twitter that people in the region are more worried about rash action from President Trump than North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, which is really quite an achievement if you think about it." (TPM)


That makes a lot of sense - with Trump being the immediate threat and NK being a future threat. Lots of time left for diplomacy IF you don`t believe that military force is inevitable. If the US strikes now, it only loses thousands of lives – those in the military and those who would be convinced to join, while SK in particular might lose millions. Japan too if NK can deliver nuclear tipped missiles this far.


I had exchanges with some friends of mine who can be considered as a specialist with the kind of N-Korean Regime, and even more since this last one is kind of unique. He kind of confirmed my comparison with a Sect, saying you just cannot strike them to impress the Regime. If one just do that, a kind of warning strike, one would just confirming what the "Gurus" are being telling the population for decades, that the "corrupt outside wants to destroy the "workers paradise" the Gurus are trying to build despite general hostility.
Actually, a war with N-Korea would be very similar with the war against the Empire of Japan, at the time when the Emperor was considered as a "living God".
The problem being that Gurus have to be consistent in order to not losing their "believers"...The Gurus have certainly built a 20.000 square feel underground anti Nuke palace, just in case.
The second problem is that one cannot just impress a Guru, as a Guru who would be impressed by the nasty outside world would face the risk to lose his "Guru status"

The past shows us that when a Guru is drived into his last corner, he chose to kill his followers/believers, and then himself, instead of surrendering.
NK will probably not try to hit San Francisco or Los Angeles - it still does not have inter continental capacities (it is a hope) - but it could hit Seoul or Tokyo, Seoul being the easy target. That is in case where serious strike should hit Pyongyang.

Then there is China. After all those years, the Regime could not face the risk to abandon its "crazy puppets", there are more obscure tights between the twos than the eyes can see.

Actually, the only good alternative is the Chinese proposal: China offering a defense protection to its crazy puppet vs USA and South Korea abandoning their joint military maneuvers, but will the Dumb and its Dumbers grasp that?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balsamo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:43 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ryan's poll numbers even worse than Trumpty Dumpty's: 29/54.



Well, good news...
All Trump gave to the GOP, its image (bad) and the exposition of the vacuity of its own proposals...
3.5 years to go, and new hopes in sight is how one should see it.
Why the {!#%@} isn't Bernie ten years younger?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:24 am

Balsamo wrote: ... Actually, the only good alternative is the Chinese proposal: China offering a defense protection to its crazy puppet vs USA and South Korea abandoning their joint military maneuvers, but will the Dumb and its Dumbers grasp that?


That would be a good alternative if China also agrees to dismantle the NK military machine, beyond purely conventional defensive capabilities.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:33 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:How are relations between South Korea and China? Would the South Koreans rather have China on their northern border?


That's a really complex question. I don't know, but I suspect there is a lot of nationalism in North Korean that can't be identified because it is rural based and overwhelmed by North Korean state propaganda.

However on a pragmatic level, China got its arse kicked by Vietnam in 1979. I have doubts as to the military effectiveness and "fighting spirit" of the modern Chinese PLA. I think that if China marched into North Korea using its conventional army and got "bogged down" then that would be a huge loss of international face for China and China would have to "ramp up" which would bring us to exactly the nuclear position we are all trying to avoid.

The other thing is China would possibly have to feed the North Koreans and China already has to import food. If China's economy really is "smoke and mirrors" then this is a risk China doesn't want.

On the other hand, China by simply placing troops on the North Korean border would force North Korea to start moving its non mobile artillery and ordinance north, which would put phenomenal strain on North Korea's resources. However if you are going to bankrupt a country, by forcing it to expend its resources, you may as well use normal economic sanctions rather than military provocation.

In other words I don't have a clue.
:D

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balsamo » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:21 am

TJrandom wrote:
Balsamo wrote: ... Actually, the only good alternative is the Chinese proposal: China offering a defense protection to its crazy puppet vs USA and South Korea abandoning their joint military maneuvers, but will the Dumb and its Dumbers grasp that?


That would be a good alternative if China also agrees to dismantle the NK military machine, beyond purely conventional defensive capabilities.

Don't count on it, as it is the spirit of this "insane" little nation.
Your proposal would equal " get into the Catholic church, but give up your dogma"...impossible.
But what is possible is that China would guarantee the "nuclear" protection of the crazy regime, but in order not to losing its face, NK would need a compensation, that is the withdraw of US forces (as well as its nuclear weapons) from South Korea.
This would fit China, and China could impose to NK.

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
How are relations between South Korea and China? Would the South Koreans rather have China on their northern border?


Sorry missed that.
Whatever the commercial relation between those States ( i guess that Samsung i-phone are sold all over there as well), those States still being States ( The South-Korean former president will probably ends up in Jail, as did/will do the president of Samsung), whatever the commercial deals, there is no way China will accept US troops on its Borders, hence North-Korea.

Mathew
However on a pragmatic level, China got its arse kicked by Vietnam in 1979. I have doubts as to the military effectiveness and "fighting spirit" of the modern Chinese PLA.


Well, the US forces got kicked by the Chinese too, earlier.
China has switch his military policy from a "popular Army" to a highly professional one, less numerous, but fully equipped. Budget 150 billions or so (by 2017, it was about 214 billions, with plans to increase it to about 233 billions within the next three years) , without the missions that the US imposed itself, which costs a lot...And China can afford an increase in financial efforts. This is what China did. It increased its ratio GDP/Public Debt to 43%, accepted a deficit of 3.8%...all this to invest in its military.
The USA have a such a ratio of 104%...

China has now a professional army of about 2.000.000 and this army is not deployed around the globe.
China being the most important buyer of US treasury bonds, around 3 trillions or so, i don't think it is Trump interest to mess with them.

AS for the China needs, it has been a long time that they have secretly taken care of the problem...They own half of Africa...so, don't bet on this one.
Besides, they are also manufacturing your cloths, your computer, your I-phone, etc...

Now, yes, China is the only Great Power that could deal with NK physically.
If Trump tries, we are all in for trouble.
Do not get fooled, NK is China's puppet. It won't let it starve too much, and would of course provide the weapons to the Guru...
Why do you think the World economic sanctions have such a limited effect on NK?
Nobody is fooled.
Chinese is the one Great power no one wants to mess with.
And currently, it stands very close to Russia, and .... Syria.
Last edited by Balsamo on Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:33 am

TJrandom wrote:
Balsamo wrote: ... Actually, the only good alternative is the Chinese proposal: China offering a defense protection to its crazy puppet vs USA and South Korea abandoning their joint military maneuvers, but will the Dumb and its Dumbers grasp that?


That would be a good alternative if China also agrees to dismantle the NK military machine, beyond purely conventional defensive capabilities.

I think that's the sticking point.

I read a piece today (NY Times?) that outlined what an agreement negotiated and guaranteed by China and other countries would look like. The points noted were

- US promise not to overthrow North Korean government and recognition of state's legitimacy
- End of sanctions
- US force reduction in region and especially South Korea
- Ok for North Korea to remain a nuclear country

But for Kim, nuclear weapons etc are the guarantee that the US won't invade, sponsor an invasion, or subvert the government. Kind of a stalemate given US track record on these things and North Korea's fears/strategy. Nukes etc are at the core of what they believe. The 2012 Constitution declares that North Korea is to be a "nuclear-armed state." I guess it'd be like Americans giving up their guns :)

Who was it who said, by the way, “There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers. You think our country is so innocent?”

Edit: I think this is pretty much what Balsamo posted before mine.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:03 am

Being a JOOOOOOOOOOOO, I would have engineered this whole "crisis". The Chinese want {!#%@} in S. China Sea, so get NK to ratchet nukes threat. US pushes back. I tell Chinese go to douchebag Trump and promise to to reign in NK on nukes in exchange for no US pushback in S. China Sea. Art of the deal/problem solved. My fee, USD 250M.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:15 am

On the campaign trail, Trump argued that China was a currency manipulator and one of the main cause for the hollowing out of the American economy and working class. Like so:
- "We have very unfair trade with China."
- “I have many friends, great manufacturers, they want to go into China. They can’t. China won’t let them.”
- “They are the single greatest currency manipulator that’s ever been on this planet.”
- “What will happen if they don’t behave, we will put on a tax of some amount, and it could be a large amount, and we will start building those factories and those plants. Instead of in China, we’ll build them here.”
- "Since China joined — that’s another beauty — the WTO in 2001, the U.S. has lost many more than 60,000 factories."
- "There’s a tremendous tax that we pay when we go into China, whereas when China sells to us there’s no tax."
- "Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn't tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so!"
- "We can't continue to allow China to rape our country."
In addition, Bannon has been declaring the inevitability of US-China war in the South China Sea within 10 years.

But today? Facts are malleable, and they depend on Trump's political needs. In fact, in Trumpworld, the hollowing out the American working class, well, here's how Trump puts it now:
"Why would I call China a currency manipulator when they are working with us on the North Korean problem? We will see what happens."
Dishonest scumbag.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:23 am

From what I am reading, the Republicans have turned the House race in Georgia's 6th district, maybe their Muslim scare tactics worked. But if, a big if, this guy Ossoff could pull off a miracle upset, it would begin to shake things up in Congress. Should Ossoff somehow win, a lot of Republicans would begin looking over their shoulders to see who is coming for them - and I mean 24/7. (My assumption, sadly, is that Ossoff will not get over 50% in the first round and go on to lose to some "Ignorant, closed-minded, {!#%@}" in the runoff election.)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:35 am

Pew has Trump under water by 39/54.

But Pew polling also suggests that Trump is orchestrating - or least as the head of - a race to the bottom: GOP favorability has dropped from 47 at the time of the inauguration to 40 today. Democrats are also afflicted: 51 approval on inauguration day but 45 now. Trump alone did not "fix this," and his election has hardly restored lost faith in government and the political parties.

The GOP's worst numbers are on healthcare (35/54), foreign policy (36/46), and immigration (39/50). They do best on dealing with terrorism (48/36) and guns (46 percent/41). The continued discouragement of the electorate with the two parties, which people keep voting for, seems to me to be the headline from the latest Pew poll.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:48 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:From what I am reading, the Republicans have turned the House race in Georgia's 6th district, maybe their Muslim scare tactics worked. But if, a big if, this guy Ossoff could pull off a miracle upset, it would begin to shake things up in Congress. Should Ossoff somehow win, a lot of Republicans would begin looking over their shoulders to see who is coming for them - and I mean 24/7. (My assumption, sadly, is that Ossoff will not get over 50% in the first round and go on to lose to some "Ignorant, closed-minded, {!#%@}" in the runoff election.)


That's a pity. I have high hopes for this one.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:00 am

Balsamo wrote:China has switch his military policy from a "popular Army" to a highly professional one, less numerous, but fully equipped.
The new Chinese VT-4 MBT is still a tank for conscripts to maintain, based on the Russian T-90 and despite its claims the PLA still has a shortfall of educated NCOs to allow for a conversion to a fully professional army. A large portion of the PLA still works in agriculture and its not clear what the reduction in troop numbers is related to PLA private enterprise in the Western provinces. In contrast Russia reduced to 175 million in population and the 2008 Serdyukov reforms, were necessary to deal with a smaller army, through converting to a professional army. Let's see what happens.

Balsamo wrote: China being the most important buyer of US treasury bonds, around 3 trillions or so, i don't think it is Trump interest to mess with them.
Nor Australia's . We sell China the raw resources for them to manufacture into consumer goods, to sell, and buy US bonds. If Trump didn't back-flip recently, concerning diplomatic relations with China, he may have started putting pressure on Australia. :D

Balsamo wrote:Why do you think the World economic sanctions have such a limited effect on NK?
Well they have had effect. NK's army has almost no mobility, drives a version of the T-72 and has no reserves for sustained warfare. That's why they are sabre rattling with nukes and b-grade missiles. :D

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:28 am

Ah, an easy problem to solve then... just get the Catholic Church to give up dogma and the NRA to advocate a gun hand in. :cry:

So once again, it is Trump who is the loose cannon... :roll:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:18 am

I'd say Trump is playing it classic, the way he always does. He's done it for 45 years.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:26 am

Trump needs to go see Kim Jong-Un, or maybe just invite him over for a round of golf. With his superior negotiation skills he will no doubt reach a deal – maybe even make progress toward a new Trump Tower in Pyongyang. That would give Trump another work site to visit, just in case he gets tired of the old rut – Mar-a-Lago. :roll:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:55 am

TJrandom wrote:Ah, an easy problem to solve then... just get the Catholic Church to give up dogma and the NRA to advocate a gun hand in. :cry:

LOL
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:06 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:From what I am reading, the Republicans have turned the House race in Georgia's 6th district, maybe their Muslim scare tactics worked. But if, a big if, this guy Ossoff could pull off a miracle upset, it would begin to shake things up in Congress. Should Ossoff somehow win, a lot of Republicans would begin looking over their shoulders to see who is coming for them - and I mean 24/7. (My assumption, sadly, is that Ossoff will not get over 50% in the first round and go on to lose to some "Ignorant, closed-minded, {!#%@}" in the runoff election.)


That's a pity. I have high hopes for this one.

AXIOS, summarizing Nate Silver (remember him?), on the GA race. Trump's tweets are basically flat-out lies and gross distortions from what I can gather. He also made a similar robocall. I aw Ossoff interviewed in response: for a 30-yr-old, he was tough and poised - hell, he was just plain tough and poised.

HuffPo Pollster, which had Clinton at 99% or so chance of winning in '16, puts Ossoff at just shy of 43%, not good enough. Next closest competitor: Handel (former GA secretary of state, not well liked within state GOP according to CNN) is at 17%.

What Silver doesn't say: Republicans have held this seat for 38 years IIRC, anyway, since the 1970s.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:14 am

Sweet HuffPo headline on how Spicey explains transparency of the Trump so-called presidency: "Trump White House Says It Won’t Be Transparent At All Because Obama Wasn’t Transparent Enough"
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:On the campaign trail, Trump argued that China was a currency manipulator and one of the main cause for the hollowing out of the American economy and working class. Like so:
- "We have very unfair trade with China."
- “I have many friends, great manufacturers, they want to go into China. They can’t. China won’t let them.”
- “They are the single greatest currency manipulator that’s ever been on this planet.”
- “What will happen if they don’t behave, we will put on a tax of some amount, and it could be a large amount, and we will start building those factories and those plants. Instead of in China, we’ll build them here.”
- "Since China joined — that’s another beauty — the WTO in 2001, the U.S. has lost many more than 60,000 factories."
- "There’s a tremendous tax that we pay when we go into China, whereas when China sells to us there’s no tax."
- "Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn't tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so!"
- "We can't continue to allow China to rape our country."
In addition, Bannon has been declaring the inevitability of US-China war in the South China Sea within 10 years.

But today? Facts are malleable, and they depend on Trump's political needs. In fact, in Trumpworld, the hollowing out the American working class, well, here's how Trump puts it now:
"Why would I call China a currency manipulator when they are working with us on the North Korean problem? We will see what happens."
Dishonest scumbag.


Well, there's just a chance people are finally catching on. I can't believe it! What brought about the change?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/208640/major ... mises.aspx

I mean, the guy has broken dozens if not hundreds of promises since January 20. Was last week's flip dump the tipping point that puts Trump into the tip (British)/dump (American)?
"I used to fall for the old post hoc, ergo propter hoc reasoning, but last year I took a course in logic and now I no longer do."

"So that course cured you of a logical fallacy."

"Well....possibly."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:38 am

My feeling is kind of the opposite: this is about when his numbers may start looking better or at least hit a plateau. We have a spate of "his best few weeks," "he is learning," "Bannon is out, the ADULT MALES are in," and "don't those bombs make a boob a president" type stories. Even "The Easter Egg Event went well." Etc.

I think his "breaks promises" number increases as some in his core see him abandoning pledge after pledge and struggling to deliver on big promises. The sham populist who used them to win the election. His symbolic 1st 100 day mark is less than 2 weeks ago. He's done some bad {!#%@} through regulations but compared to his promises - he's delivered virtually nothing for his minions.

Gallup wasn't updated yesterday . . . their numbers are pretty much like Pew's . . . the next couple weeks will be interesting . . .

But the media is well and truly pounding on the view that McMaster-Mattis-Cohn-Kushner are in charge; reasonable MEN with reasonable ideas; almost Democrats. Clinton Dems are praising Trump on Syria and North Korea. And so on. This has to take its toll at some point. Nothing in Trump's approach, his style of working and so-called learning, or his capacity has changed - we're just on a zig right now as opposed to a zag, and the media are so myopic that they lap it up like little puppies eager to please master.

When he implodes on tax "reform" (Indivisible types are playing this well, I think - even friggin' Yoho couldn't defend Trump's keeping his own taxes secret on MSNBC last night) or on infrastructure, or if the media recalls the Russia story, or if he hits a snag in Asia or the Middle East, we will go back on a zag, I'd guess. But will the media? That's my question: have the media reached their tipping point?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Quite the conundrum for Trumpies: do the air strike on Syria, the dropping of MOAB on an ISIS installation in Afghanistan, muscular posturing in northeast Asia, and pumped-up military spending and rhetoric compensate for the very brutal economic screwing this government is administering to Americans?

Put another way, yes, Trump is seeing support from the alt-right and its fellow travelers erode - the part of his coalition that basically wants to celebrate whiteness, get thrills from being "politically incorrect," and destroy the system. But his rural and working class so-called rust belt support has to be thought of differently. It should hold up, as should the support he has from evangelicals (I mean, what more could he do to alienate them? if he hasn't already, he likely won't), anti-choice folks, and social conservatives in general - and (until the losses pile up too high) from mainline Republicans.

Most of these folks will be thrilled with The New Muscularity but some will have to decide: good vibes kicking ass vs Trump's economic betrayals. And, anyway, many of them will think that deregulation means happy days are here again . . . or tell themselves so. Or that Trump will fix Korea and then kick China's butt . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Sweet HuffPo headline on how Spicey explains transparency of the Trump so-called presidency: "Trump White House Says It Won’t Be Transparent At All Because Obama Wasn’t Transparent Enough"

Oh, but the lack of information is only for the wicked liberals and the crooked media. His darlings get it all and firsthand and personally from the Führer himself. Or so they are led to believe...

And "Everyone knows", "You know what it means" and "You understand", etc. is including those who know nothing but think they do into his inner circle. :roll:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:18 pm

The cake is a lie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7-8C93raI

...but it looks like the WH has a pet again. I think I saw a skunk.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:39 pm

Mike Eliiott's obituary:
Mike ran out of family long ago and is survived by his ex-wife and best friend, Teresa Elliott. Though their marriage ran aground, their friendship only grew stronger and hers was the last voice Mike heard. And the last thing she said to him was "Donald Trump has been impeached." Upon hearing that he took his final, gentle breath, his earthly work concluded.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:48 pm

:lol:

Good for him he found comfort on his death bed!!! Sucks for the rest of us, though.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:24 pm

Cue spooky music . . . Gallup tracking poll today: 41/52 . . . moved 1 pt in #1-Erdgoran-fan Donald Trump's direction . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:16 pm

Employment by Dollar General: 105,000
Total layoffs in general merchandise retail sector since October: 89,000
Employmentt in Arby’s in US: approx 80,000
Total employment in US coal industry: 76,572

(sources: WaPo 31 Mar 2017, NYT 15 April 2017)

I guess retail isn't muscular enough to get Trump's attention . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Employment by Dollar General: 105,000
Total layoffs in general merchandise retail sector since October: 89,000
Employmentt in Arby’s in US: approx 80,000
Total employment in US coal industry: 76,572

(sources: WaPo 31 Mar 2017, NYT 15 April 2017)

I guess retail isn't muscular enough to get Trump's attention . . .


Bricks & mortar retail been in the {!#%@} for a while with, what, 3 major bankruptcy filings and apparently Urban Outfitters next to go. But point taken: not a peep from God himself.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:29 pm

Retail is about as likely to revive as, er, mining. And, right-o, not a peep of concern from His Orangeness about these low-wage, largely female workers . . .

The coal thing just bugs me for its extreme dishonesty. But so much does . . . what's become of gorgeous, btw?

"Too many Arby's, not enough time." - Zippy the Pinhead
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:53 pm

First results coming in from Georgia 6th special election . . . <1% reporting . . . Tom Price's seat, sigh . . . easy district for Trumpublicans
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Retail is about as likely to revive as, er, mining. And, right-o, not a peep of concern from His Orangeness about these low-wage, largely female workers . . .

The coal thing just bugs me for its extreme dishonesty. But so much does . . . what's become of gorgeous, btw?

"Too many Arby's, not enough time." - Zippy the Pinhead


"The coal thing just bugs me for its extreme dishonesty. But so much does . . . what's become of gorgeous, btw?"

Trump only pulled the coal thing because idiot HRC made that gaffe during the campaign and opened wide the door for it.

Hmmm, don't know where Gorgeous, er, Jethro is... probably emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt from all this "winning".

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 am

Arm...nada?


As the White House was talking about sending a naval "armada" to the Korean Peninsula, the very ships in question were on their way to participate in military exercises in the Indian Ocean, some 3,500 miles in the opposite direction.

A senior administration official blamed a miscommunication between the Pentagon and the White House over reports that the aircraft carrier has not made its way to the Sea of Japan, also known as the East Sea, as an expected show of force to North Korea...


That's probably what those Russian planes came for to inform him of... :lol:
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:24 am

Image
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:25 am

Xcalibur wrote:Trump only pulled the coal thing because idiot HRC made that gaffe during the campaign and opened wide the door for it.

god bless her, she was such a wonderful candidate . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:27 am

Re my (edited :blush:) ^edit:

"Dan Lamothe
(@DanLamothe)
In regard to Air Force intercept of Russian bombers off Alaska: @NoradNorthcom says they see about seven similar actions per year."

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:38 am

Trump at Snap-On, high on Orange Sunshine:
No administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days. That includes on military, on the border, on trade, on regulation, on law enforcement — we love our law enforcement — and on government reform. . . . [W]e’re on time, if we get that health care approval. . . . We wanna get that approval. And it just makes the tax reform easier, and it makes it better. It’s gonna make it steeper. It’s gonna be bigger, and that’s what we wanna do.


Image
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:40 am

GA 6th - 3% reporting - Ossoff 61+%
14% of DeKalb in: Ossoff at 66+% in DeKalb, <1% in Fulton and Cobb in
DeKalb = Clinton country; Cobb = Trumpistan
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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