It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:32 am

Xcalibur wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Just wait for Trump to claim he sabotaged that missile...


Or that he himself is a strategic missile shield.


Absolutely. You heard, of course, that he has now achieved more in three months in Afghanistan than Obama did in eight years. Just wait for the total victory, when Afghanistan becomes the Great Asian Glass Sheet. ISIS won't be there, and neither will those annoying Afghan tribes.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:As the cable news and large media orgs declare Trump to be stabilizing his so-called presidency . . . Gallup's daily tracker has him dropping another point: approve 39, disapprove 55 today.


He can go on forever with 39%. But watch the Kushner-Bannon rivalry. That can destroy him. He can't disown his son-in-law, and apparently he daren't disown Bannon. Lovely horns on that dilemma he's caught on.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:22 pm

AXIOS on the Mercer Wing of the White House, brutal.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:39 pm

Somersaulting his way through life, the so-called president:

"9 things Trump flip-flopped on this week"

"Mr. Trump’s 10-Second Convictions"
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:53 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:As the cable news and large media orgs declare Trump to be stabilizing his so-called presidency . . . Gallup's daily tracker has him dropping another point: approve 39, disapprove 55 today.


He can go on forever with 39%. But watch the Kushner-Bannon rivalry. That can destroy him. He can't disown his son-in-law, and apparently he daren't disown Bannon. Lovely horns on that dilemma he's caught on.

I think that is right. The wishful thinking that his polling will prove fatal assumes that his numbers will see the usual drop from their "introductory" phase: in Trump's case, I doubt that will happen. Meanwhile he chips away at things, including at "democratic" norms, day after day. We are meant to trust that Jared, Ivanka, and Gary will normalize this so-called presidency and inaugurate 8 years of moderation and even consensus liberalism.

Google searches for WWIII have reached record levels. Because the peace candidate has done such a good job creating conditions for a more peaceful world. In the words of Lev Tolstoy . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:00 pm


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:31 pm

I guess Trump couldn't be bothered to come back to D.C. for Easter. The Easter deal is tomorrow.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:54 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Words fail me


So after 45 seconds of blathering about how horribly screwed-up the world is (and NOBODY knew that but Trump!) he first gives bland reassurances that he'll relieve the fear. Great, Donald. Utterly meaningless, but a good place to stop.

But no, he has to continue, saying he's sure China is going to take some action against North Korea, and if it's not effective, then the US WILL BE effective, "I can promise you." Oh yeah, that's very reassuring, isn't it?

How did they box themselves into the idiotic "all options are on the table" scenario? There's ONLY ONE option: diplomacy! Get the world together and unite on a policy to rein in Kim Jong Un. A surgical strike against North Korea wouldn't work; it would only unleash an invasion of the south.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:48 pm

A surgical strike against North Korea wouldn't work; it would only unleash an invasion of the south.



Why would it be "surgical"?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:36 am

Xcalibur wrote:
A surgical strike against North Korea wouldn't work; it would only unleash an invasion of the south.



Why would it be "surgical"?

The "precision" MOAB? The US doesn't even know where everything it would want to hit is located and much is mobile, in tunnels, or otherwise elusive. The first reaction from Kim to any US strike, according to some analysts, could be up to 500,000 conventional shells hitting Seoul - but also some might carry chemical weapons.

“The most unpredictable part of this story is Trump, not North Korea. North Korea is doing what it always does.” - Sue Mi Terry, a former CIA analyst who specializes on N Korea.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:49 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:
A surgical strike against North Korea wouldn't work; it would only unleash an invasion of the south.



Why would it be "surgical"?

The "precision" MOAB? The US doesn't even know where everything it would want to hit is located and much is mobile, in tunnels, or otherwise elusive. The first reaction from Kim to any US strike, according to some analysts, could be up to 500,000 conventional shells hitting Seoul - but also some might carry chemical weapons.

“The most unpredictable part of this story is Trump, not North Korea. North Korea is doing what it always does.” - Sue Mi Terry, a former CIA analyst who specializes on N Korea.


I don't consider MOAB at all precision. And I was thinking that an NK nuke strike in Japan or here will provoke a full retaliatory response rather than surgical strikes.... And I'm pretty sure that the DoD isn't sharing what they do or don't know publicly.

As to Trump, sure, but there are fortunately layers to the chain of command (see Kissinger memoirs for a discussion of his subverting Nixon's more outrageous orders regarding N. Vietnam.) yes, somewhat self-serving, but I'm not aware ever denied.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:57 am

Xcalibur wrote:I don't consider MOAB at all precision.

Sorry, I was agreeing with you - and joking about MOAB as a "precise" instrument.

Xcalibur wrote:And I was thinking that an NK nuke strike in Japan or here will provoke a full retaliatory response rather than surgical strikes.... And I'm pretty sure that the DoD isn't sharing what they do or don't know publicly.

Agree.

Xcalibur wrote:As to Trump, sure, but there are fortunately layers to the chain of command (see Kissinger memoirs for a discussion of his subverting Nixon's more outrageous orders regarding N. Vietnam.) yes, somewhat self-serving, but I'm not aware ever denied.

I think that this crew has already destabilized the situation beyond what's necessary or healthy.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:21 am

I think that this crew has destabilized the situation beyond what's healthy.



Ist klar. :D

That started with Agent Orange throwing the nuke thing fast and loose during the campaign. Completely ignorant and irresponsible and the most basic proof of his unfitnesss for the office. Couple that with deranged Kjun. and it's all nutso... My sense is that NK really doesn't yet possess the capability to back the rhetoric.... yet.... and that they're playing that dangerous game Sadaam H. played.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:31 am

I hope that's right but am afraid it isn't: I fear Kim has decided that nukes + brinkmanship are his presumed "guarantee" not to be Saddamed or Muammared . . . and it appears that the Trumpies have decided that the best thing to do with a paranoid is give him grounds to be even more terrified . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I hope that's right but am afraid it isn't: I fear Kim has decided that nukes + brinkmanship are his presumed "guarantee" not to be Saddamed or Muammared . . . and it appears that the Trumpies have decided that the best thing to do with a paranoid is give him grounds to be even more terrified . . .


I don't get the populations of these countries putting up with the crapola from the top. At what point is life just good enough that compliance is guaranteed?

I'm also shocked the Syrian Army hasn't revolted after 6 years of this crap, {!#%@} they've lost 2/3 of the country to rebels/ISIS... Maybe I'm just {!#%@}' naive after all these years.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:41 am

Good lard, I hope this - 41/53, April 15 - means some are happy that he hasn't lost it yet...

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:18 am

And as Trump blithely relaxes gun control for insane folk:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/return-to-n ... ars-later/

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:59 am

Glenn Beck (IKR! of all people!) said (paraphrased), "No core - only out for a (quick?) win.". I think these guys are discussing similar... and tweet! :|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBqKS8kOc8

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:16 am

Xcalibur wrote:
A surgical strike against North Korea wouldn't work; it would only unleash an invasion of the south.



Why would it be "surgical"?


Exactly. That's why it wouldn't work. I should have put "surgical" in quotes, as you did.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:19 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Good lard, I hope this - 41/53, April 15 - means some are happy that he hasn't lost it yet...

NY Times "pop in/pop out" report on voters in Bensalem, PA - Trump is just now getting his sea legs, so to speak.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:27 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Some say a Голгофа is on its way or has arrived.



I guess we are temporarily reprieved because the North Koreans have made themselves look ridiculous. But threats are not a deterrent to these guys, they are an incentive.

Best line from that link:

"The US seems to enjoy a privilege to do whatever it likes. To the world, this could bring more danger than security."

There, in two short sentences, is exactly the reason the US is so much hated the world over. I remember when LBJ was bombing the {!#%@} out of Viet Nam, and a great American, Senator Fulbright of Arkansas, lamented that he was losing the hope that the US would be different from all the other "top guns" in world history and wouldn't be a bully. But the only President since then who really "gave peace a chance" was Jimmy Carter, and events came and overwhelmed him.

A second point: Tillerson says a military option is "on the table." I presume that means it is being considered as a possibility. The phrase "on the table" is ambiguous, since a topic can also be put on the table (tabled) when the participants in a discussion are tired of debating it. Curious that the same phrase can have two nearly opposite meanings.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:31 am

All will be fine. POLITICO this morning quotes Eliot Cohen saying that "some Bush veterans see the marginalization of chief strategist and populist hero Steve Bannon as a sign that it's safe to work for Trump."
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:37 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:A second point: Tillerson says . . .

And a third point. When the leader of this gamesmanship and maneuvering says, “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy. It’s not what you would think,” (a) it is what you'd think and (b) Holy Wernher von Braun, Batman! - this shallow ignoramus is in charge and making final decisions?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:45 am

A touching anecdote: this past week I was in a cab driven by an Albanian immigrant to the US. He'd lived in the US for eight years, and when he came hers, it was with the equivalent, he told me, of no English. His English was ok, not great.

At one point in the ride - there's only so much to discuss about Enver Hoxha - he said, "Can I ask you something about Trump?"

What he wanted to know was why Trump talks to people like a 3 year old - not like the listeners are 3 years old but he is. "He always uses baby words and says the same baby words over and over." So here is a man who has been speaking English 8 years and feels insulted by Donald's absurdly infantile use of the language . . . we discussed whether this might be on account of dementia, a lack of respect for people, Trump's discomfort with what he had to talk about, his general lack of intelligence - and came to no conclusion.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:A second point: Tillerson says . . .

And a third point. When the leader of this gamesmanship and maneuvering says, “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy. It’s not what you would think,” (a) it is what you'd think and (b) Holy Wernher von Braun, Batman! - this shallow ignoramus is in charge and making final decisions?



I think the "it's not so easy" comment came IN BETWEEN two episodes of saber-rattling. It was Wednesday's view, as opposed to what he said last Tuesday and last Thursday. Like I said, threats are not a "deterrent" to KJ-U; they are an "incentive," just as ICBMs were to the former USSR, except that they did at least deter an actual attack, back then. In the present situation, I wouldn't gamble on that.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:47 am

Exactly. It's not like this has to blow up but Trump's folly, ignorance, and bluster have increased the chances that it might.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:47 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:A touching anecdote: this past week I was in a cab driven by an Albanian immigrant to the US. He'd lived in the US for eight years, and when he came hers, it was with the equivalent, he told me, of no English. His English was ok, not great.

At one point in the ride - there's only so much to discuss about Enver Hoxha - he said, "Can I ask you something about Trump?"

What he wanted to know was why Trump talks to people like a 3 year old - not like the listeners are 3 years old but he is. "He always uses baby words and says the same baby words over and over." So here is a man who has been speaking English 8 years and feels insulted by Donald's absurdly infantile use of the language . . . we discussed whether this might be on account of dementia, a lack of respect for people, Trump's discomfort with what he had to talk about, his general lack of intelligence - and came to no conclusion.



Like other Presidents I have known, Trump would say we misunderestimate him. That is, he'd say that if he could pronounce a word containing more than ten letters.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balsamo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:58 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I hope that's right but am afraid it isn't: I fear Kim has decided that nukes + brinkmanship are his presumed "guarantee" not to be Saddamed or Muammared . . . and it appears that the Trumpies have decided that the best thing to do with a paranoid is give him grounds to be even more terrified . . .



Absolutely.
Kim Jong-un is not Saddam, and North-Korea is not Irak.
His regime has survived all those decades for the reasons outlined by Statmec.
His population has no contact whatsoever with the outside world, has been brainwashed during the same decades.
He can mobalize an army of 5.000.000, fully equiped.
He has nuclear capacity and will use it without hesitation, as it is part of the official rhetoric.
It is like engaging a fight against a sect.

Actually, the USA have much more to lose in this confrontation.

Kim actually did his test - even if it failed - i think his message was clear.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:18 pm

Well, it freaked me out a little, reading in a magazine no less than Newsweek about these Dugin-Bannon ideological ties.

Yet Bannon and Dugin have common cause in the idea that global elites have conspired against ordinary people—and the old order must be overthrown. “We have arrived at a moment where the world is discovering a new model of ideologies. The election of Trump shows that clearly,” Dugin tells Newsweek.

Bannon, in turn, seems to admire Dugin—as well as Putin’s Russia—for putting traditional values at the heart of a revival of national greatness. “We, the Judeo-Christian West, really have to look at what [Putin] is talking about as far as traditionalism goes, particularly the sense of where it supports the underpinnings of nationalism,” Bannon said at a Vatican-organized conference in 2014. “When you really look at some of the underpinnings of some of [Putin’s] beliefs today, a lot of those come from what I call Eurasianism.” Bannon declined to respond to Newsweek’s questions about his position on Russia and Dugin.

Bannon and Dugin’s speeches and writings indicate that their common enemies are secularism, multiculturalism, egalitarianism—and what Dugin calls the “globalized and internationalist capitalist liberal elite.” In both Bannon’s and Dugin’s worldview, the true global ideological struggle is between culturally homogenous groups founded on Judeo-Christian values practicing humane capitalism on one side and, on the other, an international crony-capitalist network of bankers and big business.
http://www.newsweek.com/steve-bannon-do ... fia-584962


In Greece, this charlatan considered by Golden Dawners' the number 1 'intellectual' and has a lot of ties with our neonazis.
If anyone wants to take a look how deeply Dugin influences them, i.e.:

http://x2t.com/GDawn-in-Moscow

http://x2t.com/Letters-Dukin-Michaloliakos

I've read once that Richard Spencer's wife is the translator of Dugin's works in the US.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:22 pm

Well, thank God, Trump has been able to put self-promotion and political posturing aside for just one day of innocent fun. Oh, wait....

Donald Trump wrote:I want to thank everybody. This is the 139th Easter Egg Roll. Think of it, 139. It began a long time ago, 1878. And we will be stronger and bigger and better as a nation than ever before. We're right on track. You see what's happening and we're right on track. Thank you, everybody, for being here. We're going to do cards for soldiers in a little bit. Melania and Barron and myself are going downstairs. We're going to sign the cards for troops. We look forward to that. And then we're going to come out and enjoy you, enjoy your company for a roll, a great Easter Egg Roll. I don't know if we're going to be successful. but I know a lot of people down there are going to be successful. I've seen those kids and they're highly competitive. that I can tell you.


Oh yes. As Orwell would say, Trump is a double-plus-good duckspeaker, that I can tell you. Don't listen to those carping critics who say that he talks in short choppy sentences and keeps using the same clichés over and over and that the only adjective he knows is great. Why, just recently, he described Neil Gorsuch as a....great Supreme Court justice, and...uh, never mind.
"[A clergyman] debases spiritual exaltation by reducing it to a hollow and meaningless formality, as a politician debases patriotism and a lady of joy debases love." -- H. L. Mencken

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:35 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Well, thank God, Trump has been able to put self-promotion and political posturing aside for just one day of innocent fun. Oh, wait....

Donald Trump wrote:I want to thank everybody. This is the 139th Easter Egg Roll. Think of it, 139. It began a long time ago, 1878. And we will be stronger and bigger and better as a nation than ever before. We're right on track. You see what's happening and we're right on track. Thank you, everybody, for being here. We're going to do cards for soldiers in a little bit. Melania and Barron and myself are going downstairs. We're going to sign the cards for troops. We look forward to that. And then we're going to come out and enjoy you, enjoy your company for a roll, a great Easter Egg Roll. I don't know if we're going to be successful. but I know a lot of people down there are going to be successful. I've seen those kids and they're highly competitive. that I can tell you.


Oh yes. As Orwell would say, Trump is a double-plus-good duckspeaker, that I can tell you. Don't listen to those carping critics who say that he talks in short choppy sentences and keeps using the same clichés over and over and that the only adjective he knows is great. Why, just recently, he described Neil Gorsuch as a....great Supreme Court justice, and...uh, never mind.


Did they use real eggs or brightly painted golf balls?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:52 pm

Xcalibur wrote:Did they use real eggs or brightly painted golf balls?


I think they are wood, but today's New Yorker has a cartoon showing Trump talking to the little tykes, telling them that THIS YEAR they are going to look for lost golf balls in the water hazard.
"[A clergyman] debases spiritual exaltation by reducing it to a hollow and meaningless formality, as a politician debases patriotism and a lady of joy debases love." -- H. L. Mencken

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Balsamo wrote:Absolutely.
Kim Jong-un is not Saddam, and North-Korea is not Irak.
His regime has survived all those decades for the reasons outlined by Statmec.
His population has no contact whatsoever with the outside world, has been brainwashed during the same decades.
He can mobalize an army of 5.000.000, fully equiped.
He has nuclear capacity and will use it without hesitation, as it is part of the official rhetoric.
It is like engaging a fight against a sect.

Actually, the USA have much more to lose in this confrontation.

Kim actually did his test - even if it failed - i think his message was clear.


Exactly. Kim didn't back down in the face of Trump's threats. The fact that the test was an embarrassing fiasco makes it possible for Trump to cool down a bit, but he had better walk back the rhetoric while he has the chance. You are absolutely right that the US will be a big loser, and possibly South Korea as well, even if Trump crushes North Korea. Have people forgotten the last 65 years? In 1950, China, even though the new regime was very weak, sent hordes of cannon fodder against the UN troops when they threatened its border. They nearly pushed the Americans into the sea, and only a risky amphibious landing restored the balance. The US was lucky to get out of that one without a humiliating defeat. As it was, the whole world knew that the Communists had prevailed. Eisenhower had the good sense to know when to quit, although Truman said that if he himself had signed that armistice, he'd have been crucified.
"[A clergyman] debases spiritual exaltation by reducing it to a hollow and meaningless formality, as a politician debases patriotism and a lady of joy debases love." -- H. L. Mencken

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:11 pm

A win for the US, and a possibly acceptable (a lesser of evils) outcome for China might be letting China colonize NK.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:17 pm

TJrandom wrote:A win for the US, and a possibly acceptable (a lesser of evils) outcome for China might be letting China colonize NK.


Hadn't occurred to me that that might work. How are relations between South Korea and China? Would the South Koreans rather have China on their northern border? Or is a common language and heritage more important to them?

I was guessing that China might be willing to step in if it got a freer hand in the South China Sea than the US has been willing to allow up to now. But then, China also stands to lose quite a lot if things get out of hand on the Korean peninsula.
"[A clergyman] debases spiritual exaltation by reducing it to a hollow and meaningless formality, as a politician debases patriotism and a lady of joy debases love." -- H. L. Mencken

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balsamo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:30 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Well, it freaked me out a little, reading in a magazine no less than Newsweek about these Dugin-Bannon ideological ties.

Yet Bannon and Dugin have common cause in the idea that global elites have conspired against ordinary people—and the old order must be overthrown. “We have arrived at a moment where the world is discovering a new model of ideologies. The election of Trump shows that clearly,” Dugin tells Newsweek.

Bannon, in turn, seems to admire Dugin—as well as Putin’s Russia—for putting traditional values at the heart of a revival of national greatness. “We, the Judeo-Christian West, really have to look at what [Putin] is talking about as far as traditionalism goes, particularly the sense of where it supports the underpinnings of nationalism,” Bannon said at a Vatican-organized conference in 2014. “When you really look at some of the underpinnings of some of [Putin’s] beliefs today, a lot of those come from what I call Eurasianism.” Bannon declined to respond to Newsweek’s questions about his position on Russia and Dugin.

Bannon and Dugin’s speeches and writings indicate that their common enemies are secularism, multiculturalism, egalitarianism—and what Dugin calls the “globalized and internationalist capitalist liberal elite.” In both Bannon’s and Dugin’s worldview, the true global ideological struggle is between culturally homogenous groups founded on Judeo-Christian values practicing humane capitalism on one side and, on the other, an international crony-capitalist network of bankers and big business.
http://www.newsweek.com/steve-bannon-do ... fia-584962


In Greece, this charlatan considered by Golden Dawners' the number 1 'intellectual' and has a lot of ties with our neonazis.
If anyone wants to take a look how deeply Dugin influences them, i.e.:

http://x2t.com/GDawn-in-Moscow

http://x2t.com/Letters-Dukin-Michaloliakos

I've read once that Richard Spencer's wife is the translator of Dugin's works in the US.


Both are right in one aspect only: the crisis of neoliberalism in Europe. The crisis of confidence is real and it opens the door to such individuals, in Europe, the far-right parties were the first to jump in.
The latest polls for the presidential elections in France that will take place this Sunday, illustrates the phenomenon. As i have alluded to in the Raffle thread, those polls confirms the "revolutionary times" i mentioned those last months.
The good news is that the rejection of neo-liberalism does not only translate by a "fascist" vote, so MLP has a decimal chance to become the president.
Here are the polls:
Macron (establishement, but presented as outside the Parties, not affiliated with any, center-left) : 23%
Fillon ( the former arch favorite, representing the traditional right, UMP) : 20%
Marine Le Pen ( National Front, far right) : 22%
Jean-Luc Melanchon ( Far left, movement " disobedient France" (La France insoumise): 20%
Hamon ( official candidate of the Socialist Party (currently ruling one)... 7.5%
Given a margin of error of 3%, you can see the suspense.

Then comes the little candidates: far rights : 1%, center.right: 4%, far left (revolutionary): 2%.

A basic math and observation shows that :
-45% of the voters wants to cast a vote that would break the current system (22% to the far right and 23% to the far left)
-23% are willing to give a system a chance (but to vote for a candidate of the traditional parties)
-32% will vote for a candidates that belongs to traditional political parties.

But this first observation is misleading.
Some searchers have asked the question to each people participating to the polled : "what would be your second choice?"
In the case of the voters tempted to vote for Macron: the second choice would be
- Melanchon for 30% of them ( that is for breaking the system), only 12% would vote for the traditional right (fillon), and only 16% would vote for the socialist Party (Macron has been minister in the current socialist government.
So basically only 28% from those who will vote Macron would vote for the traditional parties as second choice.
As Macron is the candidate with the more chance of becoming the next president, he will have to keep that in mind.

More surprising, the second choice of the voters of MLP (national front) is ... Macron for 33%, Melanchon for 26%, and another far left candidate for 14%.
That means that 40% of the voters who intend to vote for the far right would vote for the far left as a second choice, 33% for the (falsely) unaffiliated candidate Macron, and the rest for the traditional parties (the right)

The surprise is that among those who intend to vote for the center-left candidate, Macron, are more willing to go to the extremes as second choice, and the extremists who intend to vote for the Far-Fight.
That the vote for Macron cannot in any way be interpreted as the will to keep on with the system, even if paradoxically, the candidate wants to keep on with it. (trouble ahead).

That whatever the way you digest this number, the majority of the voters wants a radical change from the current situation.

This is confirmed by the polls for the second round of the election:
Marine Le Pen loses in any case against every candidate.
She scores best against Fillon (traditional right, and currently charges with corruption (as she is also)) with a 45-55 margin. She loses 40-60 against Macron, and 42-58 against Melanchon.
Fillon the candidates of the traditional right loses against everyone but MLP
Melanchon beats everyone but Macron. (45-55).

Now you might ask who cares?
Well MLP wants the Franxit.
Melanchon wants a EU socialist or no EU, a variation of Franxit.
MLP wants to leave NATO, so does Melanchon.
Melanchon wants to nationalize banks, limits high salary to 300.000$, tax fortune at 70%

I am grateful to Trump for involuntarily broken the wave of the far-right wave in Europe, but for the establishment, the threat has just changed of nature.

Sorry for the aparte...

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:34 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
TJrandom wrote:A win for the US, and a possibly acceptable (a lesser of evils) outcome for China might be letting China colonize NK.


Hadn't occurred to me that that might work. How are relations between South Korea and China? Would the South Koreans rather have China on their northern border? Or is a common language and heritage more important to them?

I was guessing that China might be willing to step in if it got a freer hand in the South China Sea than the US has been willing to allow up to now. But then, China also stands to lose quite a lot if things get out of hand on the Korean peninsula.


I suspect that SK would rather keep NK - Korean, but would accept China in preference to being bombed to smithereens by NK. A massive Chinese invasion of NK that didn`t trigger a US military response and NK action against SK might be an acceptable `Diplomatic` solution for SK. And the US too, since it would eliminate the NK nuclear threat and replace it with the existing China deterrent.

Japan probably wouldn’t like it…, but might agree to live with it.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:40 pm

What I've been reading - and I toss this out more as a question because I've been working on, er, work and in downtime on other things - has it that Asian countries - including and especially South Korea - are very concerned about US rhetoric (all options on the table, end of strategic patience, etc) and volatility (preemptive strike discussion) with regard to Korea and are interested in easing the pressure, so that the situation is not one where simple miscalculations can set off bad consequences and in diplomacy.

One piece summarized the point this way, "The AP reports that Trump is finding Asian allies cool to a preemptive strike and The Washington Post Tokyo bureau chief last night suggested on Twitter that people in the region are more worried about rash action from President Trump than North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, which is really quite an achievement if you think about it." (TPM)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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