It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:22 pm

Librarians rule!
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:43 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Young Oklahomans registering to vote in large numbers:

https://newsok.com/article/5596530/major-parties-lose-some-ground-as-new-oklahoma-voters-register

Many of them are registering as independents or libertarians.


morons.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:09 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Young Oklahomans registering to vote in large numbers:

https://newsok.com/article/5596530/major-parties-lose-some-ground-as-new-oklahoma-voters-register

Many of them are registering as independents or libertarians.

morons.

At least voting in the Moron Party wouldn't make things any worse.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:37 am

Unless of course they manage to get their leader elected... then we`d have a moron in the whitehouse... erm, we do already... :cry:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:34 pm

See? Not worse!
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:35 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Young Oklahomans registering to vote in large numbers:

https://newsok.com/article/5596530/major-parties-lose-some-ground-as-new-oklahoma-voters-register

Many of them are registering as independents or libertarians.


morons.


Can you blame them? How well have the Republican/Democratic Parties worked out?

No, I want them to register and vote. The Democratic Party here allows other party registrants to vote in their primaries. Get them out, get them voting and get them engaged.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:28 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Young Oklahomans registering to vote in large numbers:

https://newsok.com/article/5596530/major-parties-lose-some-ground-as-new-oklahoma-voters-register

Many of them are registering as independents or libertarians.


morons.


Can you blame them? How well have the Republican/Democratic Parties worked out?

No, I want them to register and vote. The Democratic Party here allows other party registrants to vote in their primaries. Get them out, get them voting and get them engaged.



Damn right! I see very few hopeful signs among the Democrats. Nice as it is to champion the people at the very bottom of the heap, there are people just above them who don't see the Democrats as their champion. Democrats need to build a coalition of both. And if they don't, the country is going down the tubes.

I think the US and the UK are in a race to the bottom, to see which society will collapse first. Here's an analysis of the train wreck that Brexit is about to be.

And what happens when the deep remorse sets in, and people all over the UK start to grumble at the leaders who believed the plebiscite? "The people" won't blame themselves, that's for sure. And the leaders cannot then go hat-in-hand and beg to be readmitted to the EU. I feel very sorry for the nearly 50% of voters who voted against Brexit. That's the same way I feel in relation to the slightly more than 50% of US voters who voted for Hillary Clinton. But rules are rules, even when they are ruinous rules.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:10 pm

Given the hammer lock the two party system has on USA elections, large numbers of people registering as independent or libertarian is the most effective thing the people can do, assuming they vote that way on election day. That will send a message to both parties that appealing exclusively to either base will eventually prove to be a loser. Takes awhile though......
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:12 am

Nonsense.

The biggest crime of the Deocratic Party is not to have won the 2016 election - which is the fault of the voters, not the party: if you can't tell the difference between Trump and Clinton, you deserve what you get.

Because of the way the election system is set up, 3rd parties have no chance whatsoever except as a means to prevent the major party that is closest to it, ideologically, to lose.
Since the GOP leaves no room on the right for alternative parties, it will always be the Dems who lose votes by people going Independent.

If you register as Independent you tell the GOP that:
- Trump is doing an ok job since you won't oppose him
and
- the GOP is safe in 2018 since the Dems won't be picking up disgruntled voters.


The Morons in Oklahoma think they are demanding change, but in effect the make sure everything stays the same.
If they want the parties to change, join them and forms groups like the Tea Party, and find sponsors dedicated to your sub-cause, not the party as a whole.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:28 am

I'd bet that for many OK teens, registering as Democrats makes their parents act as if they turned their backs on their other church.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:31 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Given the hammer lock the two party system has on USA elections, large numbers of people registering as independent or libertarian is the most effective thing the people can do.........


The only members of a Libertarian Party in government, anywhere in the world at the moment, are in Russia. The international Libertarian Alliance is currently run from Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertari ... _of_Russia

I am suggesting that the Russians may have more influence into the various national Libertarian parties than the USA and there may be some Russian grooming going on, for the future.
http://www.libertarianinternational.org ... e-underway

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:33 am

Yeah...well you register Libertarian which encourages both parties to move left. Just like Bernie did last time.......
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:42 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Yeah...well you register Libertarian which encourages both parties to move left.
I'm not sure about that. The Libertarian policies are extremely right wing and demand the end of all social welfare and social health care. They also promote guns owned by individuals for all self defense.

To be frank, Libertarian policies are a complete mess and don't actually deal with all those things that government need to look after : For example the military and financial regulation.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:46 am

Matt: Now that you mention that, I recall I do disagree with a lot of what they say....but I grew up with them being champions of free speech and legalized vices. Call me a cafeteria Libertarian.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:50 am

Unless you are also a prepper, you aren't a Libertarian.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: Now that you mention that, I recall I do disagree with a lot of what they say....but I grew up with them being champions of free speech and legalized vices. Call me a cafeteria Libertarian.


I do agree with some Libertarian policies, such as decriminalization for marijuana and so on, but other parties have the same policies. That's the weird mathematics about political parties and their sets of policies. If each party only had one policy then it would be easy for voters to make a choice. Sadly, parties don't have single policy platforms, You have to decide if the bad policies you don't like outweigh the policies you do like.

I think the psychological behaviour for the voter is a bit like looking at the movie adverts in the newspaper. You don't pick the movie you like but rather the movie that will have the least things you don't like.
:D

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:11 am

Yes....and then explain to the Libs why "freedom from want" is just as important as the others they tout. The meme that paying taxes is a form of tyranny gets old pretty fast......approaching the erroneous concept of anarchy being the foundation of freedom.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I do agree with some Libertarian policies, such as decriminalization for marijuana and so on, but other parties have the same policies. That's the weird mathematics about political parties and their sets of policies. If each party only had one policy then it would be easy for voters to make a choice. Sadly, parties don't have single policy platforms, You have to decide if the bad policies you don't like outweigh the policies you do like.

I think the psychological behaviour for the voter is a bit like looking at the movie adverts in the newspaper. You don't pick the movie you like but rather the movie that will have the least things you don't like.
:D


I like to think that politics is like buying your suits off the rack. Unless you are very wealthy, you can't afford to get them tailored to you personally. It's a difficult situation. The freedom to spend all the money one wants on a campaign has had pernicious effects, and it's time to reinstate the reasonable limits on individual contributions and ban completely all corporate contributions. Corporations will do an end-run around that, though. It was well known, back in the 1960s, that any executive at GM who hoped to rise in the world had to be very publicly and financially supportive of the Republican Party. They weren't spending corporate money directly, but the corporation would reward them out of proportion to their financial contribution with salary increases. I'm sure the same was true at many other corporations.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am

Whassup with Melania? She's not going to the G7, nor to Singapore. And now several weeks have gone by with only one small tweet allegedly from her, but stylistically at least dictated by her husband. I hope it's not that her medical condition is worse than has been admitted. If it's a rift in the marriage, well, what damn difference does it make to anybody if the schmuck in the Oval Office has two ex-wives or three?
"How do you teach events that defy knowledge, experiences that go beyond imagination? How do you tell children, big and small, that society could lose its mind and start murdering its own soul and its own future? How do you unveil horrors without offering at the same time some measure of hope? Hope in what? In whom? In progress, in science and literature and God?"

Elie Wiesel

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:51 am

Perhaps she's too busy trying to be best.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:17 am

Probably pissed that Trump forgot her name...

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:14 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Given the hammer lock the two party system has on USA elections, large numbers of people registering as independent or libertarian is the most effective thing the people can do.........


The only members of a Libertarian Party in government, anywhere in the world at the moment, are in Russia. The international Libertarian Alliance is currently run from Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertari ... _of_Russia

I am suggesting that the Russians may have more influence into the various national Libertarian parties than the USA and there may be some Russian grooming going on, for the future.
http://www.libertarianinternational.org ... e-underway


Libertarians are just a small part of the electorate here. Just 2%.
Seems to me a lot of Holocaust deniers are Libertarians.....
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:53 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
The biggest crime of the Deocratic Party is not to have won the 2016 election - which is the fault of the voters, not the party:


Actually that is the party’s fault. If the voters find your selection distasteful or not trustworthy then they will do exactly what voters did in 2016.

It also isn’t just about 2016. Democrats lost both state and federal positions throughout Obama’s presidency. That shows me that obviously their message didn’t work.

if you can't tell the difference between Trump and Clinton, you deserve what you get.


I agree with you on that. That’s also how I feel about those who vote Republican when that is clearly at odds with their needs.

Because of the way the election system is set up, 3rd parties have no chance whatsoever except as a means to prevent the major party that is closest to it, ideologically, to lose.
Since the GOP leaves no room on the right for alternative parties, it will always be the Dems who lose votes by people going Independent.


Except the Oklahoma Democratic Party did something smart in opening up their primaries to independent voters. This way Independents in Oklahoma can participate in the primary process which keeps them engaged.


The Morons in Oklahoma


Yes, it is certainly moronic to have kids get out and register to vote. We sure as hell don’t want them to do that, do we? It’s better to have them collectively sit on their asses playing video games.

The thing is we have no idea how these people are going to vote. What I do know (coz unlike you I live here) a lot of the drive behind this comes from recent events like the teacher’s strike. Teachers are registering as candidates in huge numbers. So, it’s entirely possible that these kids are registering that way because their teachers are registered as Independents as candidates.

I also know (coz unlike you I live here) that the Oklahoma Democratic Party is working closely with these candidates to get them elected. Because I live here I also know that Democrats regularly get crushed in elections because this is a very red state. Registering as Independents gets them away from the “Democrat” brand and also enables these kids to avoid getting flack from their very Republican families.

think they are demanding change, but in effect the make sure everything stays the same.


Well, we’ll have to see, won’t we? There’s no way to tell.

If they want the parties to change, join them and forms groups like the Tea Party, and find sponsors dedicated to your sub-cause, not the party as a whole.


Yes, that is one way to get things done. It’s not the only way. What this tells me is that the parties need to adapt and I see the Democratic Party as more willing to do so.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:23 pm

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:03 pm



Yes - but a rather narrow ruling for the `artist` baker. For example, if automation were used, the `factory` wouldn`t be permitted to discriminate.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:12 pm

TJrandom wrote:


Yes - but a rather narrow ruling for the `artist` baker. For example, if automation were used, the `factory` wouldn`t be permitted to discriminate.


I think it’s good this is a limited ruling.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:11 am

I don't care enough to read closely enough, but was it "baking" the cake or more closely "decorating" the cake? Very little personal connection in the baking.....but I can "go along" with the messaging.

Cream cheese is like that...............
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:13 am

Trump cancelled the Eagles trip to the White House:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/trump-eagles-nfl/index.html
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:55 am

Image
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:44 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Trump cancelled the Eagles trip to the White House:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/trump-eagles-nfl/index.html

Working hard on making America whole again, eh.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:52 am

Bill Clinton doesn`t think he owes Monica Lewinsky an apology. I agree with him – and instead think that Monica owes Bill an apology – for keeping that blue dress in the first place. This of course presumes that their relationship was mutual, which I believe was the case at the time. But in this article Monica questions that premise, given the `power differential` between herself as an intern, and Bill as the president. But for this to work for me, I`d still want to hear of Bill`s `power play`, or her vulnerability. What say you - am I wrong?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:02 am

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:04 am

TJrandom wrote:Bill Clinton doesn`t think he owes Monica Lewinsky an apology. I agree with him – and instead think that Monica owes Bill an apology – for keeping that blue dress in the first place. This of course presumes that their relationship was mutual, which I believe was the case at the time. But in this article Monica questions that premise, given the `power differential` between herself as an intern, and Bill as the president. But for this to work for me, I`d still want to hear of Bill`s `power play`, or her vulnerability. What say you - am I wrong?


IMO he does. The power differential between an intern and the POTUS can’t be registered on the Richter Scale.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 am

Yes - but did it play in this case? From what I remember, she was a very willing participant. She was 22/23 at the time, and no doubt star-struck, but not duped or seduced, though I have found no supporting information for this, one way or the other.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 am

I agree with TJ. Its sexist, in the other way, to think of women as always being victims.....power or not. I remember some quote of hers before arriving at the WH that she intended to seduce Clinton.......but that might have been part of the premise for a SNL skit with her buying kneepads and such.

Power is a two way sword. People in constant public view don't want claims of rape to be made against them...... too often.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:00 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Bill Clinton doesn`t think he owes Monica Lewinsky an apology. I agree with him – and instead think that Monica owes Bill an apology – for keeping that blue dress in the first place. This of course presumes that their relationship was mutual, which I believe was the case at the time. But in this article Monica questions that premise, given the `power differential` between herself as an intern, and Bill as the president. But for this to work for me, I`d still want to hear of Bill`s `power play`, or her vulnerability. What say you - am I wrong?


IMO he does. The power differential between an intern and the POTUS can’t be registered on the Richter Scale.


That's true, but the accounts I read at the time said that she PRACTICED giving blow jobs so as to be very good at it, and took the internship job "to get my Presidential knee pads." She told Barbara Walters that she wore thong underwear and deliberately flashed Clinton in the Oval Office to get his attention. Clinton owes an apology to the whole country for his despicable behavior. He was 50 years old, and still refused to be the grownup in the room with a naïve girl young enough to be his daughter.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:05 am

So, the GOP is "distancing" itself from the President's claim to have all the power of the Chinese Emperors of old. And they are tripping over the language, one saying the President can't commit obstruction ("can't" meaning it's not possible) and the other saying the President can't commit obstruction ("can't" meaning it's not allowed). What a bunch of pusillanimous poltroons! This is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, GOP. Faced with such dictatorial behavior, it's not enough to "distance" yourself. You need to confront it with every weapon at your disposal.

Meanwhile, our ambassador in Germany proudly boasts that he plans to help right-wingers get elected there and elsewhere in Europe. Jesus {!#%@} Christ!! Does he have ANY knowledge of what a right-wing German government DID 80 years ago? And the new Right Wing that he's so enamored of thinks that was a good idea! Angela Merkel needs to declare this {!#%@} persona non grata, immediately.
"How do you teach events that defy knowledge, experiences that go beyond imagination? How do you tell children, big and small, that society could lose its mind and start murdering its own soul and its own future? How do you unveil horrors without offering at the same time some measure of hope? Hope in what? In whom? In progress, in science and literature and God?"

Elie Wiesel

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:08 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Clinton owes an apology to the whole country for his despicable behavior. He was 50 years old, and still refused to be the grownup in the room with a naïve girl young enough to be his daughter.

Thats debatable from a number of different viewpoints. What is NOT debatable is Clinton's lying to the public about it. The sex lives of our leaders is of no interest to me one way or the other........but asking to be trusted when one is lying goes beyond the pale for me. Lie about sex....you'll lie about anything else. Just keep your mouth shut on the issue....look guilty...and keep your personal respect.

I remember that thong statement now...........but also that she "really" thought Clinton would fall in love with her? something doesn't match up. Enamored with power....probably got a few screws loose..............
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:31 pm

TJrandom wrote:Yes - but did it play in this case? From what I remember, she was a very willing participant. She was 22/23 at the time, and no doubt star-struck, but not duped or seduced, though I have found no supporting information for this, one way or the other.


You have a point. Is it #Metoo if the person willingly participates?

Bill should’ve kept his pants on, that was a national embarrassment.
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