It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:19 pm

Why won't what's left of regular Congress put an end to it? They know they're already endangered and would only gain the support of the majority for it. One would think...
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:25 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Yep, agree. There's plenty fertile ground. But the desired crop might have stagnated mostly at the sprouting level without the fanning, the artificial outrages and the 'comradeship' of it all.

I would love to play poker against Trump: he always, but always tips his hand. When he has terrible cards - Comey, the NBC nukes story, NBC's moron story, or the whole Russia thing - he practically shows them to you.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:27 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Why won't what's left of regular Congress put an end to it? They know they're already endangered and would only gain the support of the majority for it. One would think...

They are so complicit. They helped create this mess. Even today, they are telling reporters about Corker vs Coker, er Trump, well, golly gee, I really want the president to succeed, see, and I like Bob, but . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm

:hmm: You watched Chris Hayes last nite, eh? :-P
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm

NBC hurt him, badly, with two stories, so now the would-be dictator is threatening their ability to broadcast. The real NBC problem today is that they suppressed the Harvey Weinstein story - and gave the scoop to The New Yorker by doing so. But, it should go without saying, that's their choice, not some for some slobbering orange manatee to say.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:30 pm

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: You watched Chris Hayes last nite, eh? :-P

actually not, I saw Lawrence O'Donnell . . . what did Mr Hayes have to say (other than what Josh Marshall wrote about)? hmmm . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: You watched Chris Hayes last nite, eh? :-P

actually not, I saw Lawrence O'Donnell . . . what did Mr Hayes have to say (other than what Josh Marshall wrote about)? hmmm . . .

I was actually referring to one of the Republican propaganda masters (Senator forgot his face) who are cropping up on newscasts and never really answer questions but simply go into their glowing and glorious rants and accusations.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:45 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: You watched Chris Hayes last nite, eh? :-P

actually not, I saw Lawrence O'Donnell . . . what did Mr Hayes have to say (other than what Josh Marshall wrote about)? hmmm . . .

I was actually referring to one of the Republican propaganda masters (Senator forgot his face) who are cropping up on newscasts and never really answer questions but simply go into their glowing and glorious rants and accusations.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: oh I "encounter" those ones in various and sundry news stories . . . ! they're everywhere . . . Above I was thinking of a piece in The Hill this morning in particular:
On Tuesday, Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) told CNN, “I’m supportive of both of them. I’d like to see it stop.”

One aide to a GOP senator told The Hill of her boss, “I think as a general rule, the senator is not really interested in all the Twitter back-and-forth.” This senator wanted “to keep the focus on legislation and moving forward, whatever the personal feelings,” the aide added.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:55 pm

Frankly, I don't get it. It's not like any of this is new or not obvious. One has to wonder if many simply never showed interest in the ruining of all that's sane and rational - or ever took it seriously - and if those doings finally caught their attention.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:58 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Frankly, I don't get it. It's not like any of this is new or not obvious. One has to wonder if many simply never showed interest in the ruining of all that's sane and rational - or ever took it seriously - and if those doings finally caught their attention.

They are part of it. They still want the tax cut, deregulation, environmental and climate havoc, and the rest. They've basically went insane 15 years ago - and they were pretty damned daft even before that, what with the Deranged Angry Turtle they called Reagan and Nixon Agonistes.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:59 pm

Trump today on the First Amendment: “It’s frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it.” And: “I know the capability that we have; believe me, and it is awesome, it is massive, and when they make up stories like that that’s just made up. They have their sources that don’t exist, in my opinion they don’t exist. They make up the sources.”

This is, well, not good. I do not agree that this is fascist - not all restrictions on liberty and not all authoritarian rule should be called fascist. But it shows, as Masha Gessen warned and we debated, as long ago as December or January, that this man has an elective affinity for autocracy. Gessen, weighing in on Obama's dismal performance in handling the transition, wrote - remember? - that
However well-intentioned, this talk assumes that Trump is prepared to find common ground with his many opponents, respect the institutions of government, and repudiate almost everything he has stood for during the campaign. In short, it is treating him as a “normal” politician. There has until now been little evidence that he can be one. . . . Trump is anything but a regular politician and this has been anything but a regular election. Trump will be . . . probably the first candidate in history to win the presidency despite having been shown repeatedly by the national media to be a chronic liar, sexual predator, serial tax-avoider, and race-baiter who has attracted the likes of the Ku Klux Klan. Most important, Trump is the first candidate in memory who ran not for president but for autocrat—and won.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:03 pm


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:05 pm

“I know the capability that we have; believe me, and it is awesome...
He's talking about Twitter, National Enquirer, FAUX and Sinclair etc.? And “It’s frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it.”
Right, someone please do so. :-P
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:07 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:“I know the capability that we have; believe me, and it is awesome...
He's talking about Twitter, National Enquirer, FAUX and Sinclair etc.?

I took it to mean the police apparatuses and the DOJ, perhaps the IRS.

scrmbldggs wrote:And “It’s frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it.”
Right, someone please do so. :-P

The Projector in Chief
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:07 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Hey, isn't this executive overreach?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/10/politics/trump-health-care-states/index.html

No, not at all: it's a question of the goring of oxen and whose, see . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:35 pm

It looks challengeable to me, in that it uses executive power to circumvent established law (the ACA). Of course, given a McConnell Supreme Court, legality means really nothing. They have the power; they intend to take health care away from the poor and the sick. And they are going to succeed, one way or another.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:04 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:It looks challengeable to me, in that it uses executive power to circumvent established law (the ACA). Of course, given a McConnell Supreme Court, legality means really nothing. They have the power; they intend to take health care away from the poor and the sick. And they are going to succeed, one way or another.


I'm pretty sure this is not going to fly but I think we'll need to see what the order contains before we can make a judgement on it. It depends on who it hacks off the most, they will be the ones to sue.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:29 pm

Unraveling? You decide.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:51 pm

The Baghdad Bobs say, No way! :-P
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:00 am

MSNBC has relied so much on that Vanity Fair article that they must owe major royalties to the magazine. The discussion on Chris Matthews veered into what-if land with some guests speculating that if Kelly quotes, the generals will oust Trump and install someone else.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:06 am

Trump: "I hate everybody in the White House." WTF? Me too!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:MSNBC has relied so much on that Vanity Fair article that they must owe major royalties to the magazine. The discussion on Chris Matthews veered into what-if land with some guests speculating that if Kelly quotes, the generals will oust Trump and install someone else.


That's an interesting unconstitutional view of how this works. Please tell me we get a junta or at least a troika out of this. A single autocrat would be just so pedestrian.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:14 am

They did make note of that little problem. I think they meant the generals would install someone like Pence. Which is pretty much the same difference. Mind you, none of these people were advocating a coup - they were just raising one as a real possibility given what is happening in the WH.

Ryan today told reporters that Corker and Trump just need to take a time out and meet together over by the swing set to resolve their feud. Which was odd, in that I didn't take Corker's comments to be part of a feud.

Btw, Bannon is playing a double game IMO - and so far Trump is too dumb to figure it out.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:They did make note of that little problem. Mind you, none of these people were advocating a coup - they were just raising one as a real possibility given what is happening in the WH.

Btw, Bannon is playing a double game IMO - and so far Trump is too dumb to figure it out.


Bannon is indeed playing a double game and it's subtle like a broken leg. I think he's quite a lot stupider than has been reported.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:19 am

This is good, just as Trump apparently plans to kickstart Iran's nuke program back into business, NK tonight is saying that Trump, well here is the key bit from Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho's statement to TASS:
By his bellicose and insane statement in the UN arena, Trump -- it can be said -- lit the wick of the war against us. We need to settle the final score, only with a hail of fire, not words.

That's good, right, Trump has (thank you Trump!) kept us safe, eh?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:20 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Bannon is indeed playing a double game and it's subtle like a broken leg. I think he's quite a lot stupider than has been reported.

What worries me is the unthoughtful, reactionary, unfocused anger of the people he's appealing to - GOP primary voters. I agree, Bannon is no genius.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:21 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:They did make note of that little problem. I think they meant the generals would install someone like Pence. Which is pretty much the same difference. Mind you, none of these people were advocating a coup - they were just raising one as a real possibility given what is happening in the WH.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:24 am

Remember when we were being told that Trump was a sort of peace candidate?

Do the generals really see themselves in opposition to Trump? Isn't it, also, more likely that if the generals got fed up they'd resign - not carry out a coup?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:31 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Remember when we were being told that Trump was a sort of peace candidate?

Do the generals really see themselves in opposition to Trump? Isn't it, also, more likely that if the generals got fed up they'd resign - not carry out a coup?


They should if not happy, but I have no sense of how this current brass sees themselves other than to say I can't imagine any of them having any sense of loyalty to follow his orders, their oath binding them to the Constitution. But in this generation I don't know what they understand that to mean.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:36 am

. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:39 am

add this WaPo story tonight to the Vanity Fair piece and others on the unraveling and its impact of governance ("‘He threw a fit’: Trump’s anger over Iran deal forced aides to scramble for a compromise") I read Gearan's article to answer my question above about the generals: they are in deep with this crap. There was their time to resign; they decided to try making sense of nonsense instead.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:48 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:add this WaPo story tonight to the Vanity Fair piece and others on the unraveling and its impact of governance ("‘He threw a fit’: Trump’s anger over Iran deal forced aides to scramble for a compromise") I read Gearan's article to answer my question above about the generals: they are in deep with this crap. There was their time to resign; they decided to try making sense of nonsense instead.


This was my fear... although from our primary studies here of another certain era clearly the corruption of general staff officers has historical precedent.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:43 am

And as long as I'm being cinematic tonight, I'm sure Trump is hoping for one these:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058962/

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:27 am


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:36 am

“That would have been cruel” ROFL
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:04 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:“That would have been cruel” ROFL


All good stuff. :lol:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:08 am

one of his better ones, and that's saying something!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:15 am



It's the little people mentioned at the end that I worry about. Also the fact that the President appoints the members of the FCC. How hard would it be for Trump to pack it with his own toadies and sycophants? This is another area where the President has far too much power. And we know he has gone after individual university professors that he doesn't like and tried to get them fired. Remember Senator McCarthy? He actually succeeded, to some extent. Case in point: Former Communist Dirk Struik at MIT, was placed on paid leave of absence by MIT for five years during the 1950s. Had he been less eminent a scholar, he'd have been fired. (Massachusetts finally recovered its sanity, and during the 1990s gave Struik an Outstanding Citizen award. Struik lived to be 104 and gave an address to the American Mathematical Society when he was 100.)
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:21 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:This is good, just as Trump apparently plans to kickstart Iran's nuke program back into business, NK tonight is saying that Trump, well here is the key bit from Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho's statement to TASS:
By his bellicose and insane statement in the UN arena, Trump -- it can be said -- lit the wick of the war against us. We need to settle the final score, only with a hail of fire, not words.

That's good, right, Trump has (thank you Trump!) kept us safe, eh?


Oh yes, the full statement given to TASS indicates that our diplomat in the White House is helping to heal the breach between Russia and NK. Give the man a Nobel Peace Prize!
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:26 am

I am pretty sure that Ian and gorgeous find this behavior of racists, scammers, and alt-rightists as abhorrent as Earl Granville does. The whole thing is so self-serving, indecent, and hypocritical that I'd have thought evangelical conservatives to be behind it.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817


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