Hoax quotes fact checking

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Aaron Richards
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Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:24 am

I'd be interested if there is any website out there that fact-checks / debunks the usual few dozen or so quotes peddled by the far right / antisemites / "revisionists" to deniers. I have, in a few instances, successfully tried my hand at exposing obvious hoax quotes e.g. attributed to Winston Churchill or Sefton Delmer or even Nathan Rothschild on my blog, but my foray into this topic is quite pathetic in terms of quantity.

This for example is a site where our favorite falsifiers of history have neatly collected most of their usual distortions into one page: http://balder.org/judea/Important-Quota ... f-WWII.php

I found a page that debunks Talmud verses ripped out of context and/or deliberately distorted by websites like "synagogue of satan", but I was wondering if generic pre-WW2 quotes are also addressed this way somewhere.
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:53 am

I don't know but when Rodoh is back online I can post a link to a discussion of the falsified Jabotinsky / Mascha Rjetsch quotation. For now, it is interesting to understand that I have only ever found any reference to it on revisionist sites and in revisionist posts and that the quotation is variously ascribed to Natscha Retsch, Mascha Rjetsch, and Tatscha Retsch. The discussion in the thread I will link to consisted in large part IIRC of my requesting a proper citation to the quotation and clarification of the source confusion (and explanation as to what NR, MR, or TR was) - I never received what I requested.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby NathanC » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:14 am

As we pointed out in one of Monstrous the Moron's threads, Raul Hillberg never attributed the planning of the Holocaust to "Telepathy". Robert Faurisson simply made it up. This Portugese blog by some Brazillian friends of the HC Blog Crew exposes the lie.

http://holocausto-doc.blogspot.com/2013 ... austo.html

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby NathanC » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:25 am

And another Fake Hoax qoute that should always be shared as a reminder of Eric Rhymes with's dishonesty is Matthew Ellard's expose of his deception regarding Heinz Rosenberg. Rhymes with's videos are of course still defended by idiots like EtienneSC and random denier spammers on the internet.

viewtopic.php?p=394998#p394998

Matthew Ellard wrote:So, I listened to his full audio recording to compare to the edits in your propaganda film. Heinz Rosenberg was a slave worker carpenter. The steam room was in Minsk Ghetto in the soldiers barracks and not in Treblinka. You are lying and you edited his testimony to make it sound like Treblinka
http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn509193

(Part 1)
("Minsk Ghetto")
at 44.00 "And then after about four weeks, about seven or eight transports arrived, from Germany, the last one came from Vienna, then it stopped. then we started to work. We were picked up in the morning by heavy guards. I worked in the german soldiers room. I had a very good job. I had plenty to eat. I was warm. I worked in the steam room you see, but I had plenty to eat more than the people in the ghetto. I was allowed every Sunday to visit my family. An SS guard took me, you see,

. "Any locksmiths here?" "Any plumbers here?" "Any electricians?" Yes. "Get out, get out, get out". "I knew about this because I was in the steam room" Everybody went as gardeners. We never saw the gardeners again. But we were put on the side to a barracks and we had to undress. We did not have prison uniforms but old clothes with a mark. so we undressed


Your exact lies
1) In your propaganda video you say at 12.01 "A similar process took place at Treblinka, Auschwitz and other camps" (The steam room mentioned by Rosenberg was in the soldiers barracks in the Minsk Ghetto and not at any camps).

2) You then play an edited audio of Rosenbergs story. "I was in the steam room" but you edited out that that steam room was in Minsk exactly as Rosenberg said.

Please explain why you edited out real evidence for your lying propaganda video?


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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Xcalibur » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:33 am

Aaron Richards wrote:I'd be interested if there is any website out there that fact-checks / debunks the usual few dozen or so quotes peddled by the far right / antisemites / "revisionists" to deniers. I have, in a few instances, successfully tried my hand at exposing obvious hoax quotes e.g. attributed to Winston Churchill or Sefton Delmer or even Nathan Rothschild on my blog, but my foray into this topic is quite pathetic in terms of quantity.

This for example is a site where our favorite falsifiers of history have neatly collected most of their usual distortions into one page: http://balder.org/judea/Important-Quota ... f-WWII.php

I found a page that debunks Talmud verses ripped out of context and/or deliberately distorted by websites like "synagogue of satan", but I was wondering if generic pre-WW2 quotes are also addressed this way somewhere.


THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.

As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:55 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:

I found a page that debunks Talmud verses ripped out of context and/or deliberately distorted by websites like "synagogue of satan", but I was wondering if generic pre-WW2 quotes are also addressed this way somewhere.


You're talking about Gil Student's website, right? It is indeed the best non-hebrew source on the subject
http://talmud.faithweb.com/
(The only anti-semetic website I found attempting to debunk Rabbi Student is... well, this, let's just say that their cover photo says it all
https://banjohollow.wordpress.com/2011/ ... o-reality/)

Another great sources for questions about Judaism is this. I used it in order to refute the claims of someone in the Holocaust Controversies comment section:
http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questi ... in-judaism
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:35 am

All I really needed to see was:
"Judea declares War on Germany."

That told me pretty much everything I needed to know.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 am

Well the following quote:

"The war wasn't only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn't want to." - Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)


Is from a speech focused on Russia... So I'm not sure how it corrolates with Germany.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:19 am

Denying-History wrote:Well the following quote:

"The war wasn't only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn't want to." - Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)


Is from a speech focused on Russia... So I'm not sure how it corrolates with Germany.


MMM..Not of much value without source citation. If it references Churchill's FULTON, MO speech,1946, I remember it not other than the Iron Curtain segment. Seems an odd comment without further contextualization.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:36 am

Xcalibur wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Well the following quote:

"The war wasn't only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn't want to." - Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)


Is from a speech focused on Russia... So I'm not sure how it corrolates with Germany.


MMM..Not of much value without source citation. If it references Churchill's FULTON, MO speech,1946, I remember it not other than the Iron Curtain segment. Seems an odd comment without further contextualization.


To my understanding it's not even part of the speech. Or it's some morbid translation, but if you would like to confirm my assertion here is the text of the speech.

http://www.historyguide.org/europe/churchill.html

The speech itself focuses more on Russia then on the Germans.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:36 am

I have to thank Aaron Richards for his work here, which I've bookmarked for future reference:
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

Xcalibur wrote:THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.
As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.


Maybe not of great significance, but some interesting things said in a nice way can be found also here:
http://www.istheholocaustreal.com/
Last edited by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:31 pm

Thanks, never saw that site before.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:08 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:I have to thank David for his work here, which I've bookmarked for future reference:
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

Xcalibur wrote:THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.
As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.


Maybe not of great significance, but some interesting things said in a nice way can be found also here:
http://www.istheholocaustreal.com/


Interesting web site, my only objection is the continued use of Diesel engines used at the Reinhard Camps.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Denying-History » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:34 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:I have to thank David for his work here, which I've bookmarked for future reference:
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

Xcalibur wrote:THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.
As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.


Maybe not of great significance, but some interesting things said in a nice way can be found also here:
http://www.istheholocaustreal.com/


Interesting web site, my only objection is the continued use of Diesel engines used at the Reinhard Camps.

I don't think he is arguing that Diesel was used at the Reinhardt camps. He seems to be treating it as an "if ____ then ___" sort of argument.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:43 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:I have to thank David for his work here, which I've bookmarked for future reference:
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

Xcalibur wrote:THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.
As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.


Maybe not of great significance, but some interesting things said in a nice way can be found also here:
http://www.istheholocaustreal.com/


Interesting web site, my only objection is the continued use of Diesel engines used at the Reinhard Camps.

I don't think he is arguing that Diesel was used at the Reinhardt camps. He seems to be treating it as an "if ____ then ___" sort of argument.


True and the info about oxygen (which I've always argued) makes it moot, however, better to actually go with the operator's statements about petrol than to argue about diesel.
Charles Provan proved you can tune a diesel to make it dangerous.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:03 pm

I see the "The Black Rabbit of Inlé" featured on your blog, Sir. He hasn't been around here for a bit and it made me wonder if I'm out of any loops here? Which would not surprise me... :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:18 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:I see the "The Black Rabbit of Inlé" featured on your blog, Sir. He hasn't been around here for a bit and it made me wonder if I'm out of any loops here? Which would not surprise me... :-P


Yes, our rabbit seems to be taking an extended vacation.

Maybe a reverse conversion and he's slipped back into some old bad habits.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:39 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:I have to thank Aaron Richards for his work here, which I've bookmarked for future reference:
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

Xcalibur wrote:THHP and Nizkor kinda did this years ago but not exactly. I haven't looked at either for ages... I think your best bet here is the HC blog.
As to all of it, Mr. Google is your friend.


Maybe not of great significance, but some interesting things said in a nice way can be found also here:
http://www.istheholocaustreal.com/


Great site indeed. While Iv'e seen better anti-denialist sites overall, it might be the finest in terms of HOW it's written - it's a perfect tone and language for the 4chan/youtube denialist-altright-memelords crowd that is the only thing keeping denial alive on a mass level at the moment.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:31 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:. . . it might be the finest in terms of HOW it's written - it's a perfect tone and language for the 4chan/youtube denialist-altright-memelords crowd that is the only thing keeping denial alive on a mass level at the moment.

good point

Kleon, is that site yours?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Kleon, is that site yours?


Oh no, it isn't. I wish it was, or maybe I wish I could think of the same method (talking to Alt-Rights in their language) but unfortunately no. It seems to me the owner of this site is an Israeli.

Since you mentioned it, I deal with these subjects (Holocaust in Greece, antisemitism etc) in my own team's website which are in Greek of course, i.e.:

https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/2012 ... i-athinas/

And especially this one, which is a new project:
https://protocolswithoutzion.wordpress. ... isemitism/
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm

Thanks, now I wish I could read Greek! (I like this: "We do not hide that the character of our website is antifascist and against nationalism, and therefore against the far right and the nazi threat, which are often subjects of our investigations" - of course, our revisionists here are none of those things but only truth tellers, forensic scientists, and brave investigators LOL)
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks, now I wish I could read Greek! (I like this: "We do not hide that the character of our website is antifascist and against nationalism, and therefore against the far right and the nazi threat, which are often subjects of our investigations" - of course, our revisionists here are none of those things but only truth tellers, forensic scientists, and brave investigators LOL)


Well, this another huge difference between people like us and deniers.
We always say loud and clear and proud what we stand for.
They always are hiding and try to mud the waters.

If I am permitted to quote something, this is a kind of response I sometimes give to deniers:

[START QUOTE]
Well, it is something I can't understand about all you nazi deniers, and nobody ever gave me an answer:

You are Holocaust deniers, OK. You don't believe in the Holocaust, you call it 'hoax', 'Jewish lie' etc.
But you love and you admire Hitler for going after the Jews, right?
You believe it was the right thing to do. He stood up against the alleged Jewish 'domination' and Jewish 'power' and tried to destroy them.
And he did it. He destroyed a lot of Jewish communities, not only in Germany but in every occupied country.

And this is the exact main reason for loving Hitler so much: He chased the Jews and he annihilated them. If it wasn't for this, probably you would be very indifferent against him. You would had an attitude like the one you have over Mussolini or Franco or the fascists dictators in Hungary and Romania. You like them because they were fascists but you don't adore them, since they didn't make an Holocaust.

So, why do you have to deny it?
If I were a proud Hitler-lover and/or National Socialist like you, I would stand up and say it clear and proud:

'Hitler was great, Hitler was right for chasing Jews, I am admiring the man for what he did, going after these parasite rats, and I'm praising, both the nazis and the Holocaust'.


This is the logical thing for a nazi to do, I mean, for someone who denies the Holocaust because in fact wants to praise it and blame the victims and make it happen again and finish the job.

What you do now it's incomprehensible.
In one occasion you'll say 'oh, no, Hitler didn't do anything against the Jews, these Holohoax stuff is Jewish blatant lies only for profit', as if Hitler didn't want to hurt them at all or even ... loved them.
In another occasion you'll say 'Hitler was in defense, the Jews attacked him first'.
Next you'll say the story 'he didn't mean to hurt them, it was the events that forced him to exterminate them'.
Next 'he never gave an order'.
Next the story 'he didn't know, everything was done by his inferiors without his knowledge'
And so on with the distortions and the twists.

All you people are becoming very funny (if not the laugh of the world), saying paranoid things like:

«The Jews were the aggressors in Germany, and Hitler was operating defensively when he initiated the Holocaust, except that he didn’t initiate the Holocaust, because the Holocaust is a lie perpetrated by the Jews, who deserve to die in a Holocaust»


Why just can't be serious for a moment and just say:

- 'YES! He did it and we love him for that and only for that and we're working to see it happen again'.


But you are pussies. You can't be such straight. You're hiding behind the denial and you say things like 'no, it never happened, well, the Jews deserved it but it is a Jewish lie for profit'.
And in every single difficulty, you are changing your story.

In the end, what you say, in other words, is exactly this:

- 'The Holocaust never happened, it is a hoax, but it was awesome and the Jews deserved it'


I think there is an answer to this bizarre situation:

You hate the Jews so much, that even in their cruel death, they have to be wrong. You NEED them to be wrong even when they were mass murdered unarmed because it is your hate for them that drives you.
Another reason is, of course, that you want people to get attracted to Nazism. You can't do that with your idols being so cruel, so you try to 'revise' History (and you think this can work even for today, in order Jews and Israel cannot gain sympathy) and made the nazi leadership more attractive.

I think this is the answer and it fits all you nazi hatemongers pussies and cowards and chickens who deny ... your denial in every possible way!
This is the one and only truth, no matter what you'll claim.
And you certainly know this truth, better than me.
[END QUOTE]

And guess what, sometimes it works: They finally admit that they are in this because they are Nazis and antisemites
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:31 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:What you do now it's incomprehensible. . . . In the end, what you say, in other words, is exactly this:

- 'The Holocaust never happened, it is a hoax, but it was awesome and the Jews deserved it'


. . . all you nazi hatemongers pussies and cowards and chickens who deny ... your denial in every possible way!

Nice. I've encountered some who are more forthright than others - and from time to time the mask slips - but nearly all deniers have the problem you've described. I've even met some deniers who, confronted with the evidence and being honest, have stopped being deniers and even two or three who have become astute, forthright, and steadfast opponents of denial. But most live in the twilight zone of welcoming the FS, and admiring its leaders, whilst denying it ever happened. Thus the scattershot approach you laid out in the thread you started, well characterized by the French as negationism.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:40 pm

I never liked the "if Hitler didn't kill Jews than how is he your hero?" (actual quote from "The Believer") argument. Deniers often use the same logic and ask "aren't the Jews supposed to be happy at the possibillity that millions of them were never actually murdered as they were lead to believe?". Hargis has a whole thread on that in codoh.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:51 pm

Trouble is that at Rodoh, for sure, they practically used the exact reasoning Kleon laid out - and sometimes almost the same wording! Hargis's formulation is simply meant as baiting.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I've even met some deniers who, confronted with the evidence and being honest, have stopped being deniers and even two or three who have become astute, forthright, and steadfast opponents of denial.


Thank you for this. These ex deniers turned to opponents of denial should take a moment and think what they were doing for so long.

According to experts scholars and scientists who study genocides, these are the 10 stages of every genocide.

- Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination ...

... and finally the last 10th stage:
- Denial


http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

[START QUOTE]
Scholars prove that, in fact, denial is part -and actually a very important part- of the crimes themselves.
DENIAL is the final stage that lasts throughout and always follows a genocide. It is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims. They block investigations of the crimes, and continue to govern until driven from power by force, when they flee into exile. There they remain with impunity, like Pol Pot or Idi Amin, unless they are captured and a tribunal is established to try them. The response to denial is punishment by an international tribunal or national courts. There the evidence can be heard, and the perpetrators punished. Tribunals like the Yugoslav or Rwanda Tribunals, or an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or an International Criminal Court may not deter the worst genocidal killers. But with the political will to arrest and prosecute them, some may be brought to justice.

«If someone puts together all the deniers' claims and their partial 'versions' of the facts, then the overall narrative is completely irrational and has no logic. But they don't care about that. They focus on small parts of the evidence, just to produce doubts, no matter if they're reasonable or not.».

Denial is part -and actually a very important part- of the crimes themselves. Denial is the state of mind of a person who believes that the perpetrators were right and that the victims deserved to be slaughtered.
[...]
It's a simple description of what deniers are doing.
It's because they want to vindicate the Nazis and Hitler for the slaughter of the Jews, they want to blame the victims and this is their exact motive.

They just want to use one of the many possible distortions of the truth for their own cover-up and denial purposes, and in order to achieve that, they do not hesitate to ashame themselves.

The denier is always a wannabe perpetrator for the same reasons (and the same hate for the victims, i.e. the Jews).

The denier blames himself because he missed the genocide, because he was born years after the genocide, so it wasn't possible for him to do his part of the crimes. The denier wishes and works with all his heart for a second new genocide to fulfill his dream: Extermination in mass numbers of innocent people just because of their origin, race, religion or even name.
[END QUOTE]

Perhaps, one should leave out some traces of 'psychological' observations, the rest is absolutely accurate.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:15 pm

The best proof I ever got of the denier's true nature was when I saw one guy in the comment section of a website called "The Right Stuff" gave "20 reasons why there was no Holocaust", among them were

"
14. The Jews have a history of lying
15. Germans DON'T have a history of genocides

Looks like someone never heard about what happened to the Herero and Namaqua tribes in Namibia.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:23 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote: These ex deniers turned to opponents of denial should take a moment and think what they were doing for so long.

Indeed, the folks I know have done exactly that.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby nickterry » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:I never liked the "if Hitler didn't kill Jews than how is he your hero?" (actual quote from "The Believer") argument. Deniers often use the same logic and ask "aren't the Jews supposed to be happy at the possibillity that millions of them were never actually murdered as they were lead to believe?". Hargis has a whole thread on that in codoh.


Well, the approach Kleon outlined doesn't use the same logic as the denier gambit of wondering why 'the Jews' aren't happy there 'was no Holocaust'. That's because deniers mix this in with other approaches. They are just as happy to accuse Jews of hiding millions of other Jews, of lying knowingly about the fate of their kinspeople, as they are to try on the faux-innocent act. Plus the entire gambit soon leads into unwelcome areas, i.e. 'where did they go', which as we know, the deniers don't like discussing that much. I suspect that Hargis thinks he has large numbers of Jewish readers who will be outraged and baited by his dumb question; it's either just an attempt to annoy people, or it's a not very effective attempt to appeal to latent antisemites with yet another reason to regard Jews as horrible - 'they're so callous to their own relatives they didn't look for them after the war". Or it's an attempt to shift burden of proof - "you go find them".

I'm not sure many deniers have used "aren't the Jews supposed to be happy at the possibility that millions of them were never actually murdered as they were lead to believe?" in a live argument with a non-denier.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:24 pm

nickterry wrote:Well, the approach Kleon outlined doesn't use the same logic as the denier gambit of wondering why 'the Jews' aren't happy there 'was no Holocaust'. That's because deniers mix this in with other approaches.
[...]
I'm not sure many deniers have used "aren't the Jews supposed to be happy at the possibility that millions of them were never actually murdered as they were lead to believe?" in a live argument with a non-denier.


As Nick put it right, I think the deniers' equivalent to my approach could be more likely this one, for example, from a Paul Grubach junk article, with chapters like 'The Holocaust as a Weapon Against European People and Biological Theories of Human Behavior and Race' and 'The traditional Holocaust story plays an enormous political, social and economic role in world affairs'.

I mean, I show their motivation, they believe they can show ours as a 'huge Zionist conspiracy' etc. This is what they think our alleged 'agenda' is.
Not much to comment about it, not to mention racial eugenics junk.
In fact, they believe in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' garbage stuff, we don't. I just said what I believe their motives really are, 'You deny the Holocaust because in fact you want to praise the Holocaust'.

Paul Grubach's article is very long and boring, so I copied two paragraphs, see below, or one can see its main points in this Scrapbookpages/Further Glory woman's review, here:
https://archive.is/0BJNT

The Holocaust as a Weapon Against European People and Biological Theories of Human Behavior and Race
Jewish intellectual Leon Klinghoffer made an honest admission in the Forward. He pointed out that the Holocaust ideology is not only a “Jewish memory” but also a Jewish weapon against non-Jewish people: “"The world is aware how jealously the Jewish community guards the Holocaust, both as a memory and a weapon."86 Indeed, the president of the Union for Reform Judaism, Rabbi Eric Yoffe, used the Holocaust ideology as a weapon against all Europeans. He stated: “And in Europe, which bears the mark of Cain for its complicity in the Holocaust, the Arab-Israeli conflict has become a means of absolving guilt. In turning Israelis from victims into Nazis, they [non-Jewish Europeans] seek to cleanse their consciences by casting their sins upon us [the Jews].”87
It is not only Jews that use the Holocaust as a weapon against Christian White people, for Non-White intellectuals do the same. The Black-American evolutionary biologist and critic of White Culture, Joseph L. Graves Jr., stated: “The roots of the twentieth century Holocaust were planted with the behavior of Christians [read: White Europeans] toward Jews in medieval Europe.”88
In addition, the Holocaust mythology is used as an ideological weapon against scientific theories that postulate genetics as playing an important role in determining behavioral differences between individuals and racial groups.89 Once again, we quote Joseph Graves Jr.: “Certainly, eugenics has to take some responsibility for the Holocaust.”90
[...]
The Future of the Holocaust Mythology: What is to be done?
The traditional Holocaust story plays an enormous political, social and economic role in world affairs. It is as if the whole emotional, intellectual, and institutional set-up of the post World War II world has been built around it. It serves as an ideological "justification" for the sociopolitical arrangements in many parts of the world today. Despite the fact that it is a demonstrably weak and flimsy ideology, it has amazing resiliency. The major reason that the traditional Holocaust story still survives is because there are a wide range of powerful groups that benefit from its perpetuation.
The world sociopolitical status quo that the Holocaust ideology "justifies" and "legitimizes" is threatened with collapse. In this world of endless war and violence, it is the duty of politicians, intellectuals and scholars to attempt to come up with peaceful resolutions to the problems humanity faces. It is now up to the powerful interests that are behind the Holocaust mythology to engage its opponents, the revisionists, in free and democratic debate so we may get at the truth about the fate of the Jews during World War II. In this way, we can help to build a more rational and humane world order, one that is based more upon truth and less upon politically inspired propaganda.
https://archive.is/XvDMw#selection-1171.0-1179.687
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Darren Wilshak » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Ain't seen any Grubach since Mr Smith stopped posting his letters...

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:46 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:Ain't seen any Grubach since Mr Smith stopped posting his letters...

been-there came a-cropper with Grubach on convergence, back at Rodoh666
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Aaron Richards » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:28 pm

picked up on 4chan:

Image

Full quote:

Anti-Semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the non-Jew by the Jewish group. This is a normal social reaction. The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and on the antagonism it has forever met in the world... the root cause is their use of enemies they create in order to keep solidarity...


source seems to be legit, authors are also respected.

By "normal" I assume Einstein didnt mean it in an endorsing manner, but an observing manner.

Einstein is obviously wrong because there are anti-semitic jews (Gerard Menuhin), and that it is an attitude primarly produced by right wing conspiracy theories, not just the internet trolls today but Hitler and pals' misleading "public lectures" back in the day, rather than by the mere presence of Jews.

I also fail to see how Jews "thrived" on oppression, rather than having mastered enduring it, and the last sentence makes little sense at all.
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:20 pm

You're right. For example, were there Jews in Japan? Why there was antisemitism there? Why the infamous Protocols forgery book was a hit there?
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:47 pm

I'm having trouble affirming the authenticity of the following quote (ignore the AZ website watermark, it's a sh*t site where any sentence can be turned into an image with a famous person next to it, aka not a credible source in and of itself):

Image

the source, according to the far-right, is: Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill - His Career in War and Peace, p. 145

guy doesn't sound like a revisionist himself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emrys_Hughes

tried to find an e-copy, no luck: https://books.google.at/books/about/Win ... edir_esc=y

right now I have no idea what the book says on p.145. Has anyone read it?


edit: nvm, BroI already did the heavy lifting proving it is a hoax quote years ago, on codoh no less :lol:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7259
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:42 pm

WUFfery alert - another possible fake quotation (Weizmann) above this post from Andy Mathis:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 50#p123307

This quotation often floats with the Jabotinsky Matscha Retch fabrication, various Churchill quotations, Judea Declares War quotations (https://archive.org/stream/JewsDeclareW ... 3_djvu.txt) and is often attributed to "Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December3, 1942, in New York," with no space between December and 3 (https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=7830).

I don't know the source for this one, but Andy's asking for it is interesting . . .
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:00 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:picked up on 4chan:

Image

Full quote:

Anti-Semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the non-Jew by the Jewish group. This is a normal social reaction. The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and on the antagonism it has forever met in the world... the root cause is their use of enemies they create in order to keep solidarity...


source seems to be legit, authors are also respected.

By "normal" I assume Einstein didnt mean it in an endorsing manner, but an observing manner.

Einstein is obviously wrong because there are anti-semitic jews (Gerard Menuhin), and that it is an attitude primarly produced by right wing conspiracy theories, not just the internet trolls today but Hitler and pals' misleading "public lectures" back in the day, rather than by the mere presence of Jews.

I also fail to see how Jews "thrived" on oppression, rather than having mastered enduring it, and the last sentence makes little sense at all.


Been-there used this recently on a new thread on RODOH:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3264

Aaron, I recommend Götz Aly’s book called “Why the Jews? Why the Germans?”

It discusses pre-Nazi attitudes of Germans regarding the Jews. Aly makes an interesting point that Jews quickly adjusted to the new realities of capitalism in industrializing societies due to their higher rates of education, their experience in business and their critical thinking ability founded on discussion of scripture. The Germans (and others) became jealous of this success. What Einstein is saying is essentially correct but distorted and quote mined.
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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:13 pm

NathanC wrote:As we pointed out in one of Monstrous the Moron's threads, Raul Hillberg never attributed the planning of the Holocaust to "Telepathy". Robert Faurisson simply made it up. This Portugese blog by some Brazillian friends of the HC Blog Crew exposes the lie.

http://holocausto-doc.blogspot.com/2013 ... austo.html

Faurisson did not make it up, Hilberg confirmed the quote, albeit it could still be argued to be somewhat out of context.

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:

I found a page that debunks Talmud verses ripped out of context and/or deliberately distorted by websites like "synagogue of satan", but I was wondering if generic pre-WW2 quotes are also addressed this way somewhere.


You're talking about Gil Student's website, right? It is indeed the best non-hebrew source on the subject
http://talmud.faithweb.com/
(The only anti-semetic website I found attempting to debunk Rabbi Student is... well, this, let's just say that their cover photo says it all
https://banjohollow.wordpress.com/2011/ ... o-reality/)

Student is a religious apologist in the first place, and it shows. He is not wrong on most stuff, but e.g. his treatment of Jesus in the Talmud is downright primitive. The original uncensored manuscripts actually have "Yeshu ha-Notzri", not simply Yeshu, an unambiguous reference also acknowledged e.g. by Adin Steinsaltz:

https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.43a.2 ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.57a.3?vh ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.104b.5? ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.67a.1 ... sh&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.107b. ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Sotah.47a.14?vh ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.103a. ... ic&lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.17b.1? ... ic&lang=bi

(These should be checked on the desktop PCs, they tend to redirect to the Hebrew translation on smaller mobile devices.)

Not to mention the acknowledged secular scholarship:

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Talmud-Pet ... 0691143188

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Re: Hoax quotes fact checking

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:33 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
NathanC wrote:As we pointed out in one of Monstrous the Moron's threads, Raul Hillberg never attributed the planning of the Holocaust to "Telepathy". Robert Faurisson simply made it up. This Portugese blog by some Brazillian friends of the HC Blog Crew exposes the lie.

http://holocausto-doc.blogspot.com/2013 ... austo.html

Faurisson did not make it up, Hilberg confirmed the quote, albeit it could still be argued to be somewhat out of context.

I'd thought Hilberg confirmed saying, "Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus -- mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy." And explained it thus: "In the final analysis, the destruction of the Jews was not so much a product of laws and commands as it was a matter of spirit, of shared comprehension, of consonance and synchronization." Did he use the actual word telepathy somewhere?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944


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