German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:38 am

Damnit, how could I forget....
Whatever shortcomings this idea has.....:lol:

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Xcalibur » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:45 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Damnit, how could I forget....
Whatever shortcomings this idea has.....:lol:


This one needs to be honored in the Chimp Quote Hall of Fame.... right up there with LGR's "It was dated September. It wasn't dated at all.". :lol:

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:46 am

Monstrous wrote:Whatever shortcomings this idea has, it is several times better than the truly astoundingly weird and stupid official AR story, including the completely pointless exhuming and burning of the corpses on pyres, instead of in crematoria, which would still leave behind gigantic amounts of remains to be buried again.



Oh, and another thing, Monstrous.

The German administration didn't want Jews running wild in their areas. This document shows that Kube threatened to execute any unauthorized deportations of Jews into his area while calling for a halt to any further deportations into the area.
Oh, just as a side note, the document also describes the mass killing of Jews. Oopsie, that's embarrassing.

https://www.historiography-project.com/nca/nca06/3428-PS.php

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:51 am

Xcalibur wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Damnit, how could I forget....
Whatever shortcomings this idea has.....:lol:


This one needs to be honored in the Chimp Quote Hall of Fame.... right up there with LGR's "It was dated September. It wasn't dated at all.". :lol:

LGR also had: ". . . all told not one of my better efforts . . ."

But yeah, LGR's “It was dated early September” / “Because it is not dated at all" and, I'd add, Berg's "breath holding" Stundie.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:54 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Whatever shortcomings this idea has, it is several times better than the truly astoundingly weird and stupid official AR story, including the completely pointless exhuming and burning of the corpses on pyres, instead of in crematoria, which would still leave behind gigantic amounts of remains to be buried again.



Oh, and another thing, Monstrous.

The German administration didn't want Jews running wild in their areas. This document shows that Kube threatened to execute any unauthorized deportations of Jews into his area while calling for a halt to any further deportations into the area.
Oh, just as a side note, the document also describes the mass killing of Jews. Oopsie, that's embarrassing.

https://www.historiography-project.com/nca/nca06/3428-PS.php

Far from letting Jews wander around, the Germans incarcerated Jews in ghettos and camps, for crissakes, before deporting them to killing sites or bumping them off. Monstrous has forgotten all about ghettos and KLs, where a day or so ago he had almost all the Jews being placed and staying put.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Xcalibur » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:06 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Whatever shortcomings this idea has, it is several times better than the truly astoundingly weird and stupid official AR story, including the completely pointless exhuming and burning of the corpses on pyres, instead of in crematoria, which would still leave behind gigantic amounts of remains to be buried again.



Oh, and another thing, Monstrous.

The German administration didn't want Jews running wild in their areas. This document shows that Kube threatened to execute any unauthorized deportations of Jews into his area while calling for a halt to any further deportations into the area.
Oh, just as a side note, the document also describes the mass killing of Jews. Oopsie, that's embarrassing.

https://www.historiography-project.com/nca/nca06/3428-PS.php

Far from letting Jews wander around, the Germans incarcerated Jews in ghettos and camps, for crissakes, before deporting them to killing sites or bumping them off. Monstrous has forgotten all about ghettos and KLs, where a day or so ago he had almost all the Jews being placed.



I kinda like Monstrous. He's congenially, hopelessly incompetent, completely unprepared to deal with the material and completely at home in his profound ignorance of the topic. He's like the kid in middle school who tried to crib the answer to an exam question from your paper and still managed to {!#%@} the whole thing up.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:09 am

LOL except he copied off the 2nd dumbest kid in the class!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Xcalibur » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL except he copied off the 2nd dumbest kid in the class!



Exactly, LOL...

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:36 am

:lol:

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:58 pm

Monstrous wrote:Then it makes even less sense to waste gigantic resources


Hardly gigantic. I would say the resources used in the QAR camps were not much of anything, although Globus did have to order new fuel several times.

on killing them


Which they did.

burying them,


Which they did.

digging them up


Which they did to an extent

cutting down several forests for fuel


Not really "several forests" - it would not have required that much wood since the amount of corpses would have been reduced by top-burning and decomposition. Additionally, the German use of Lye would have dried some of the bodies up and made them easily combustible.

building enormous pyres


Like Dresden? Yes!

and burning the corpses on them instead of in more efficient crematoria


....except it would not have been "efficient" to build crematoria on the spot when they could use pyres, which were cheaper and more convenient.

and then burying the massive remains again


A lot less "massive" after the burning. They also dumped a good amount of ash into the Bug River and there is evidence that a huge amount of it was scatted on nearby roads.

By the way, the whole gigantic digging up, cutting downs forests, burning, burying the remains again, operation was completely pointless and wasteful with resources since there were still enormous remains left behind after the burning.


The remains left behind are what one wold expect from an operation like that: burned up bones, bodies, ashes, teeth ect. How do you explain that away? I will remind you that there were hundreds of unburned bodies at the nearby TI camp. Why did the Germans not burn them if what went in at TII was run of the mill?

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:00 pm

Monstrous wrote:Anyway, if wanting to get rid of some Jews from the GG, why not just transport them to the East and let them fend for themselves? Much less resource usage...


The retardation is strong with this one. The entire eastern front was a war zone at the time and the Jews were viewed as a security threat everywhere. Additionally, the areas behind the front were to be allocated for German colonization, the presence of a few million Jews would have been counter-productive.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:18 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:. . .
and burning the corpses on them instead of in more efficient crematoria


....except it would not have been "efficient" to build crematoria on the spot when they could use pyres, which were cheaper and more convenient.

and then burying the massive remains again


A lot less "massive" after the burning. They also dumped a good amount of ash into the Bug River and there is evidence that a huge amount of it was scatted on nearby roads.

By the way, the whole gigantic digging up, cutting downs forests, burning, burying the remains again, operation was completely pointless and wasteful with resources since there were still enormous remains left behind after the burning.
. . .

As always, Monstrous's gambit here has nothing to do with the sequence of events - the Nazis didn't plan things as they worked out. initially, they burned some corpses of the murder victims in the AR camps (e.g. Treblinka) but for the most part buried the victims. The issues with fuel, digging up, pyres, completion of burning, etc only arose because of the course of the war and problems with the initial plan. What might not look to be a "logical" plan from the perspective of spring 1942 was the best that the authorities could manage in 1943, when they confronted gaps in their initial plan, which arose in the course of its implementation.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:20 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Anyway, if wanting to get rid of some Jews from the GG, why not just transport them to the East and let them fend for themselves? Much less resource usage...


The retardation is strong with this one. The entire eastern front was a war zone at the time and the Jews were viewed as a security threat everywhere. Additionally, the areas behind the front were to be allocated for German colonization, the presence of a few million Jews would have been counter-productive.

Even Monstrous intuited the "retardation," contributing his own personal Stundie to explain and to try and pretend that the thread was about proofs for the inner workings of AR camps: "Whatever shortcomings this idea has . . ."

So what does Monstrous do now?
1. open a new thread and hope no one notices the diversion attempt
2. continue in this one with links and efforts to change the subject away from his melt-down
3. post more "fat Jew" pix
4. licks his wounds and go back to positing in "The Monstrous Challenge" thread
5. take a holiday and come back tan, rested and ready
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:31 pm

I think Monstrous is a little rattled by this particular thread.

I suspect he will disappear for a bit and then open some new threads and hope we won't notice.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:57 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think Monstrous is a little rattled by this particular thread.

I suspect he will disappear for a bit, and then open some new threads, claim victory and hope we won't notice.

ftfy :-P
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:09 pm

:lol:

You are right!!!

Monstrous will claim victory over silly believers!!!

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:1. open a new thread and hope no one notices the diversion attempt

silly me, I should have foreseen that the new thread would simply go over ground previously covered
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Denying-History » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:23 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:In this post I wanted to discuss how food and the lack there of led to the murder of some two million Polish Jews, most of them in the Action Reinhard Camps in 1942.


Eh, the numbers most likely closer to 1.3 million. Though this is an interesting topic, thanks for posting it!

Its a rather interesting, as I always considered the opening of the Reinhardt camps to be connected to Götz Aly's economic argument.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:20 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:In this post I wanted to discuss how food and the lack there of led to the murder of some two million Polish Jews, most of them in the Action Reinhard Camps in 1942.


Eh, the numbers most likely closer to 1.3 million. Though this is an interesting topic, thanks for posting it!

Its a rather interesting, as I always considered the opening of the Reinhardt camps to be connected to Götz Aly's economic argument.



I think we could look at different estimates for numbers, depending who you read.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:34 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:In this post I wanted to discuss how food and the lack there of led to the murder of some two million Polish Jews, most of them in the Action Reinhard Camps in 1942.


Eh, the numbers most likely closer to 1.3 million. Though this is an interesting topic, thanks for posting it!

Its a rather interesting, as I always considered the opening of the Reinhardt camps to be connected to Götz Aly's economic argument.


I've always been fascinated with the Reinhard Camps, probably because there isn't as much information as there is on Auschwitz.

Glad you liked the topic, I'm gonna add more. Gerlach also had some other things I want to talk about.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:06 pm

The book "Dark Heart" also has additional information about the food policies of the Germans in the General Government. I will add once I finish.

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Re: German Food Policy and the Action Reinhard Camps

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:27 pm

Giving this a bump, sending over someone to read it.


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