Anne frank fraud?

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Anne frank fraud?

Postby ryu » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:13 pm

http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-s ... stigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:22 pm

We already have a post about this story, which, alas, isn't from Daily Stormer. This was posted just yesterday, linking to the Anne Frank House and their publications. We really don't need a new, separate thread on this.

And why on earth would the arrest of Frank in a ration card investigation rather than via betrayal raise the question, "Anne frank fraud?" Either way, the Germans in the Netherlands were rounding up Jews, sending them to Westerbork or Vught, then from there to Auschwitz or Sobibór to be killed. Whether Frank was grabbed because someone snitched, or because the police stumbled on her hiding place, her fate was bound up in the policy of extermination. There were many ways Jews were taken - either of the possible scenarios involving Frank fits in with what we know of the Final Solution in the Netherlands. So, while the question how Frank came to be seized is interesting, a new account focusing on a regular police investigation doesn't imply anything fraudulent about Frank's case. Bad thread title, ryu.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:18 pm

ryu wrote:http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-shows-anne-franks-family-was-arrested-during-fraud-investigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?


Ryu, the people who publish the daily stormer are a waste of oxygen. The stormer is a cesspool of inbred Nazi hacks.

Uh, the reason why the Franks would need forged ration cards is they could not legally receive actual cards because they were HIDING. They were hiding because they were Jews and for no other reason. While LEGALLY I could see arresting Otto Frank for the use of such cards it's a bit of an overkill to send him and his family to Auschwitz.

Ryu, the denier canard of the forgery of Anne Frank's Diary is complete horse {!#%@}. It belongs in the crapper along with the World Almanac canard or the denier obsession with shrunken heads or Jewish soap.

My advice to you is to stop wasting your time with garbage.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:30 pm

ryu wrote:http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-shows-anne-franks-family-was-arrested-during-fraud-investigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?

"ration card scam" is obviously a euphemism for extermination
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:37 pm

Mary never disappoints..... :lol:
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:25 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
ryu wrote:http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-shows-anne-franks-family-was-arrested-during-fraud-investigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?


Ryu, the people who publish the daily stormer are a waste of oxygen. The stormer is a cesspool of inbred Nazi hacks.

Uh, the reason why the Franks would need forged ration cards is they could not legally receive actual cards because they were HIDING. They were hiding because they were Jews and for no other reason. While LEGALLY I could see arresting Otto Frank for the use of such cards it's a bit of an overkill to send him and his family to Auschwitz.

Ryu, the denier canard of the forgery of Anne Frank's Diary is complete horse {!#%@}. It belongs in the crapper along with the World Almanac canard or the denier obsession with shrunken heads or Jewish soap.

My advice to you is to stop wasting your time with garbage.

To be clear, Anne Frank and her family were not the targets of an investigation into, in this interpretation, a so-called "ration card scam."

The new argument is that policemen (the officers being men not usually assigned to hunting down and arresting Jews) went to the house to investigate criminal activities unrelated to Jewish issues, namely, the possibility that two salesmen, Martin Brouwer and Pieter Daatzelaar, were trading illegally in ration cards:
Arrests like these were reported to the aforementioned Special Unit of the Central Investigation Division in The Hague, established in 1941 to act against illegal distribution of ration coupons and meat. During their day-to-day activities, investigators from this department often came across Jews in hiding by chance. And though the investigators officially worked for this Dutch unit, they were supervised by men from the German Sicherheitsdienst.

The salesmen were prosecuted by the Dutch judiciary in their hometowns in the summer of 1944. In August, a heavy fine was imposed on Brouwer. It is worth noting that at the end of July the court in Haarlem dismissed the charges against Daatzelaar. . . . Anne mentioned him in her diary as one of the people they needed to be quiet for in the Secret Annex, which indicates, as far as she knew, that he was unaware of the people hiding upstairs in the building.

The point here is that the "scam," which isn't really the right word for the illegal sale of ration cards, wasn't investigated as a Jewish issue or on account of the Franks but rather as a criminal activity, as quoted above,"unrelated to Jewish issues," and that it is possible that "by chance" the investigation (possibly in a thorough search of the premises) led the coppers to the Franks. A notation in Anne Frank's diary indicates that somehow the Franks were getting their illegal cards from the two salesmen but not that the Franks were the subject of the police inquiry.

The Franks, if discovered in this manner, would have been arrested and sent to Westerbork not for getting ration cards illegally but for being "illegal" persons in the Netherlands at that time, that is, having committed the "crime" of being Jewish.

Mary's comment is just more of her dumbass trying to wise off.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:03 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
ryu wrote:http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-shows-anne-franks-family-was-arrested-during-fraud-investigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?


Ryu, the people who publish the daily stormer are a waste of oxygen. The stormer is a cesspool of inbred Nazi hacks.

Uh, the reason why the Franks would need forged ration cards is they could not legally receive actual cards because they were HIDING. They were hiding because they were Jews and for no other reason. While LEGALLY I could see arresting Otto Frank for the use of such cards it's a bit of an overkill to send him and his family to Auschwitz.

Ryu, the denier canard of the forgery of Anne Frank's Diary is complete horse {!#%@}. It belongs in the crapper along with the World Almanac canard or the denier obsession with shrunken heads or Jewish soap.

My advice to you is to stop wasting your time with garbage.

To be clear, Anne Frank and her family were not the targets of an investigation into, in this interpretation, a so-called "ration card scam."

The new argument is that policemen (the officers being men not usually assigned to hunting down and arresting Jews) went to the house to investigate criminal activities unrelated to Jewish issues, namely, the possibility that two salesmen, Martin Brouwer and Pieter Daatzelaar, were trading illegally in ration cards:
Arrests like these were reported to the aforementioned Special Unit of the Central Investigation Division in The Hague, established in 1941 to act against illegal distribution of ration coupons and meat. During their day-to-day activities, investigators from this department often came across Jews in hiding by chance. And though the investigators officially worked for this Dutch unit, they were supervised by men from the German Sicherheitsdienst.

The salesmen were prosecuted by the Dutch judiciary in their hometowns in the summer of 1944. In August, a heavy fine was imposed on Brouwer. It is worth noting that at the end of July the court in Haarlem dismissed the charges against Daatzelaar. . . . Anne mentioned him in her diary as one of the people they needed to be quiet for in the Secret Annex, which indicates, as far as she knew, that he was unaware of the people hiding upstairs in the building.

The point here is that the "scam," which isn't really the right word for the illegal sale of ration cards, wasn't investigated as a Jewish issue or on account of the Franks but rather as a criminal activity, as quoted above,"unrelated to Jewish issues," and that it is possible that "by chance" the investigation (possibly in a thorough search of the premises) led the coppers to the Franks. A notation in Anne Frank's diary indicates that somehow the Franks were getting their illegal cards from the two salesmen but not that the Franks were the subject of the police inquiry.

The Franks, if discovered in this manner, would have been arrested and sent to Westerbork not for getting ration cards illegally but for being "illegal" persons in the Netherlands at that time, that is, having committed the "crime" of being Jewish.

Mary's comment is just more of her dumbass trying to wise off.


I understand, I'm simply irritated that ryu again brought in stormer sludge as though it was something worth reading.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:10 am

That too. :)
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Monster » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:23 am

ryu wrote:http://www.dailystormer.com/new-study-shows-anne-franks-family-was-arrested-during-fraud-investigation/
This refers to a study released here that Anne was found during an arrest of a ration card scam...
What do you think?
Because the Nazis refer to how her father edited her diary later and thinks he wrote the whole thing...and why would they reveal such things?

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby ryu » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:24 pm

Oh since they were hiding from extermination they needed illegal rations then which the Ds misunderstood. Thanks.

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:40 pm

ryu wrote:Oh since they were hiding from extermination they needed illegal rations then which the Ds misunderstood. Thanks.


There is no misunderstanding what the stormer wanted, ryu. They wanted to twist this story into another example of "Jewish corruption."

You really need to stop reading the stormer, ryu. Instead I suggest reading actual books about the subject, not only about the Holocaust but about the time period itself.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:42 pm

I do think it's funny that the stormer now considers itself the number 1 most trusted Republican news source.

:lol:
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:24 pm

Image
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Denying-History » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:03 pm

<Yawn> it's like Ryu already posted about this issue when Rizoli here. I think I remember it being called something like easy debunk...
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby David » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:43 am

In September 1945, Victor Kugler wrote to the PRA* saying that Opekta's "management" (referring to Johannes Kleiman and himself) had been arrested by the SD for helping Jews in hiding, and for facilitating work for people (to protect them from being deported to Germany)....
However

As two of the helpers, Victor Kugler and Johannes Kleiman – both close business associates of Otto Frank – assisted and protected the eight people in hiding. They were arrested with them on August 4, 1944. ... a month later the two helpers [kugler and Kleiman] were sent to the Police Transit Camp in Amersfoort. As the records of the police camp indicate, Kugler and Kleiman were imprisoned there for different reasons. An investigation in 1948, also established that one of the warehousemen had been working in the building "ter ontduiking aan de arbeidsinzet" (to avoid being deported as forced labor).

http://www.annefrank.org/en/News/FAQs-I ... he-Arrest/

It seems that people who were involved in blackmarket operations and food coupon forgery at 263 Prinsengracht have forgotten to mention that in their various histories of the Anne Frank tragedy.

While the promoters of the Anne Frank tale have always made the dramatic claim of a betrayal, it turns out that Otto Frank was
arrested by a the group of the German Security Service specifically involved with economic crimes.

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:00 am

And in other news, Richard Krege dragged a big lawn mower around Treblinka. So what?

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 am

David wrote:In September 1945, Victor Kugler wrote to the PRA* saying that Opekta's "management" (referring to Johannes Kleiman and himself) had been arrested by the SD for helping Jews in hiding, and for facilitating work for people (to protect them from being deported to Germany)....
However

As two of the helpers, Victor Kugler and Johannes Kleiman – both close business associates of Otto Frank – assisted and protected the eight people in hiding. They were arrested with them on August 4, 1944. ... a month later the two helpers [kugler and Kleiman] were sent to the Police Transit Camp in Amersfoort. As the records of the police camp indicate, Kugler and Kleiman were imprisoned there for different reasons. An investigation in 1948, also established that one of the warehousemen had been working in the building "ter ontduiking aan de arbeidsinzet" (to avoid being deported as forced labor).

http://www.annefrank.org/en/News/FAQs-I ... he-Arrest/

It seems that people who were involved in blackmarket operations and food coupon forgery at 263 Prinsengracht have forgotten to mention that in their various histories of the Anne Frank tragedy.

While the promoters of the Anne Frank tale have always made the dramatic claim of a betrayal, it turns out that Otto Frank was
arrested by a the group of the German Security Service specifically involved with economic crimes.


So, you are back.

Are you going to stick around or run off again? Did Eric Hunt's defection bring you out of hiding?
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:08 am

Didn't we go through this a couple months ago?
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:13 am

David wrote:In September 1945, Victor Kugler wrote to the PRA* saying that Opekta's "management" (referring to Johannes Kleiman and himself) had been arrested by the SD for helping Jews in hiding, and for facilitating work for people (to protect them from being deported to Germany)....
However

As two of the helpers, Victor Kugler and Johannes Kleiman – both close business associates of Otto Frank – assisted and protected the eight people in hiding. They were arrested with them on August 4, 1944. ... a month later the two helpers [kugler and Kleiman] were sent to the Police Transit Camp in Amersfoort. As the records of the police camp indicate, Kugler and Kleiman were imprisoned there for different reasons. An investigation in 1948, also established that one of the warehousemen had been working in the building "ter ontduiking aan de arbeidsinzet" (to avoid being deported as forced labor).

http://www.annefrank.org/en/News/FAQs-I ... he-Arrest/

It seems that people who were involved in blackmarket operations and food coupon forgery at 263 Prinsengracht have forgotten to mention that in their various histories of the Anne Frank tragedy.

While the promoters of the Anne Frank tale have always made the dramatic claim of a betrayal, it turns out that Otto Frank was
arrested by a the group of the German Security Service specifically involved with economic crimes.



David, I bumped a couple of your "greatest hits" back up so that we could talk about them.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:03 pm

David wrote:In September 1945, Victor Kugler wrote to the PRA* saying that Opekta's "management" (referring to Johannes Kleiman and himself) had been arrested by the SD for helping Jews in hiding, and for facilitating work for people (to protect them from being deported to Germany)....
However

As two of the helpers, Victor Kugler and Johannes Kleiman – both close business associates of Otto Frank – assisted and protected the eight people in hiding. They were arrested with them on August 4, 1944. ... a month later the two helpers [kugler and Kleiman] were sent to the Police Transit Camp in Amersfoort. As the records of the police camp indicate, Kugler and Kleiman were imprisoned there for different reasons. An investigation in 1948, also established that one of the warehousemen had been working in the building "ter ontduiking aan de arbeidsinzet" (to avoid being deported as forced labor).

http://www.annefrank.org/en/News/FAQs-I ... he-Arrest/

It seems that people who were involved in blackmarket operations and food coupon forgery at 263 Prinsengracht have forgotten to mention that in their various histories of the Anne Frank tragedy.

While the promoters of the Anne Frank tale have always made the dramatic claim of a betrayal, it turns out that Otto Frank was
arrested by a the group of the German Security Service specifically involved with economic crimes.


So, I didn't dream this. David came out of hiding. Odd that he didn't open a new post.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:14 am

Cold Case Diary - Who Betrayed Anne Frank?: the project -
On August 4, 2019, it will be 75 years since Anne Frank, her family, and the others were betrayed. Although it was subjected to several investigations, the circumstances that led to the arrest have never been found. This investigation is different from all previous attempts to find the truth. It will be conducted using modern law enforcement investigative techniques. The research team is multidisciplinary, using methods of cold case detectives, historians, but also psychologists, profilers, data analysts, forensic scientists and criminologists. In this way, new light will be brought to the events.

The team uses specially developed software to organize and analyze the vast amount of data, which has already generated new insights. It enables them to see connections that are not visible to the naked eye. These new insights may not only be applicable to the Anne Frank case. In the future, this information may be used to solve others cases of arrest and betrayal during Nazi occupation.

background
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 15, 2018 7:54 pm

"Anne Frank's 'dirty' jokes found on diary pages she covered over: Digital technology helps decipher hidden passages on two pages masked with brown paper":

“All men, if they are normal, go with women, women like that accost them on the street and then they go together. In Paris they have big houses for that. Papa has been there.”
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 15, 2018 8:30 pm

Where was a joke?
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 9:07 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Where was a joke?


The Guardian wrote:Image
"Anne, then 13, wrote the two pages on 28 September 1942"


Presumably these pages show an original entry and interpolations by her-15yr-old-self when she had mind to publish and was rewriting/expanding/filling gaps in her diary. I understand that's what she did; why her handwriting differs so drastically.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 15, 2018 9:11 pm

Thanks.....but.... the headline was jokes and the article quoted several observations but NO JOKES.

Misleading teasers are the insufferable, and the general rule.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 15, 2018 10:57 pm

additional news items, with more content, concerning "hidden" pages in Anne Frank's diary:

Hidden pages deciphered (Anne Frank House)

Dutch researchers uncover dirty jokes in Anne Frank’s diary

Discovered in Anne Frank's diary: cheeky jokes and sex ed

(I still have yet to read Anne Frank's diary.)
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:35 pm

I’ve never read it either.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve never read it either.


Somehow I get the impression this thread has come to an end :lol:

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 16, 2018 12:00 am

Well, now I've read some of her "dirty" jokes . . .
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:55 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve never read it either.


Somehow I get the impression this thread has come to an end :lol:


Well, ryu hasn't come back to post anymore Neo-Nazi drivel..........I guess he can't find where the Daily Stormer slunk off to.

Edited to correct a really silly mistake.
:lol:
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:36 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve never read it either.


Somehow I get the impression this thread has come to an end :lol:


Well, ryu hasn't come back to post anymore Neo-Nazi drivel..........I guess he can't find where the Daily Stormer slunk off to.

Edited to correct a really silly mistake.
:lol:


Can't say I've ever encountered an Anne Frank thread by one of these morons that ever started well.... and they all tend to fizzle out altogether....

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:39 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve never read it either.


Somehow I get the impression this thread has come to an end :lol:


Well, ryu hasn't come back to post anymore Neo-Nazi drivel..........I guess he can't find where the Daily Stormer slunk off to.

Edited to correct a really silly mistake.
:lol:


Can't say I've ever encountered an Anne Frank thread by one of these morons that ever started well.... and they all tend to fizzle out altogether....


I always thought it creepy that geriatrics like Faurisson obsess so much over a dead girl’s diary. They all need psychiatric help.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:20 am

Quite.

Fauri's always been batshite and unpleasant. Time for him to ride into Valhalla... or nothingness.

This one is a weird obsession for some of these folks, like Zisblatt, Wiesel, etc.

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:22 am

Faurisson is living proof that only the good die young.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 25, 2018 10:54 am

new book on Anne Frank: "Who betrayed Anne Frank? Book claims to shed new light on mystery: Son of Dutch resistance member says Nazis were alerted to family’s secret chamber by Jewish collaborator":
The involvement of Ans van Dijk, who was executed in 1948 after admitting to collaborating in the capture of 145 people, including her own brother and his family, had been previously claimed. But, the Anne Frank House museum and research centre had been unable to come to any conclusion, despite police investigations and its own studies.

Fresh claims have now been made in a book by Gerard Kremer, 70, the son of a member of the Dutch resistance of the same name, who was an acquaintance of Van Dijk in Amsterdam. . . .

A spokeswoman for Anne Frank House said the museum had been in touch with the author of The Backyard of the Secret Annex, but that there remained no proof of Van Dijk’s guilt.

“We consider Gerard Kremer’s book as a tribute to his parents, based on what he remembers and has heard. In 2016, the Anne Frank House carried out research into the arrest of the Frank family and the other four people in hiding in the secret annex.

“Ans van Dijk was included as a potential traitor in this study. We have not been able to find evidence for this theory, nor for other betrayal theories.” . . .

David Barnouw, an emeritus researcher at the Dutch Institute for war, holocaust and genocide studies, offered a cautious response to the book’s claims, and suggested the Franks’ discovery may have been pure chance.

as a reminder, here is a link to the Anne Frank House 2016 research report
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby TJrandom » Fri May 25, 2018 6:44 pm

I have been to the Anne Frank house several times - whenever I was in Amsterdam, and it was a moving experience.


edit - fixed spelling...
Last edited by TJrandom on Fri May 25, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 25, 2018 6:53 pm

TJrandom wrote:I have been o the Anne Frank house several times - whenever I was in Amsterdam, and it was a moving experience.

I hope to go there sometime, I will be in Berlin this summer and might take the train to Amsterdam - if not this summer, then next year. I also want to see the Hollandsche Schouwbourg.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
TJrandom wrote:I have been o the Anne Frank house several times - whenever I was in Amsterdam, and it was a moving experience.

I hope to go there sometime, I will be in Berlin this summer and might take the train to Amsterdam - if not this summer, then next year. I also want to see the Hollandsche Schouwbourg.



I’m jealous, I think any traveling I want to do will need to wait until I retire.
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Re: Anne frank fraud?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 25, 2018 7:03 pm

I'm retired! LOL Having been laid up all winter, I planned three trips as soon as it was clear I'd recover from surgery: California, Berlin/Stockholm (over a month in Sweden), and Paris. I'm jealous of myself!!
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944


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