Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Nessie » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:50 pm

From the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -see-world

"Type this into your Google search bar: “did the hol”. And Google suggests you search for this: “Did the Holocaust happen?”. And this is the answer: no. The top result is a link to stormfront.org, a neo-Nazi site and an article entitled: “Top 10 reasons why the Holocaust didn’t happen”. The third result is the article “The Holocaust Hoax; IT NEVER HAPPENED”. The fifth is “50 reasons why the Holocaust didn’t happen.” The seventh is a YouTube video “Did the Holocaust really happen?” The ninth is “Holocaust Against Jews is a Total Lie – Proof.”

So I typed in the search "did the hol" and the top eight suggestions were that "hol" was for holocaust. The last two had "hol" that I was about to search for hollywood. "Holidays" did not even get a mention. When I clicked onto the first "did the holocaust happen" I got

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=did+t ... 8AeX_aTwAQ

1 - Stormfront. No
2 - Wikipedia. Yes
3 - CODOH. No
4 - Expeltheparasite. No
5 - BBC article on denial. Yes
6 - BBC childrens news. Yes
7 - Reddit archived thread. Mix of opinions
8 - USHMM. Yes
9 - Hitler's Children. No
10 - You tube video. No

So four out of ten said yes the Holocaust did happen. Wow! Why is the Skeptic Forum not up there with CODOH? How is that tiny forum so high it beats the BBC? It is clear the denialists are winning the publicity war hands down.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby NathanC » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:36 pm

Some time ago, there was a lot of controversy about how Google maps did not put "Palestine" on its map. A lot of controversy: it was all on my social media feeds. No one other than you has complained about Google seemingly promoting Holocaust Denial.

I guess this undermines the claim that the Jews or "Zionists" run google, then.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:46 pm

That Guardian article is interesting. Thanks for bringing this up. A week previous, the same writer had a piece "Google, democracy and the truth about internet search: Tech-savvy rightwingers have been able to ‘game’ the algorithms of internet giants and create a new reality where Hitler is a good guy, Jews are evil and… Donald Trump becomes president", which led off with a query "are jews" - which in turn autocompleted in the Google search bar as "are jews evil" and returned hits saying, mostly, for sure.

Adding to this: Dylan Roof has explained how a Google search led him to fake data on crimes African Americans supposedly commit against embattled whites, which fed his certainly about white genocide and . . . so on. (These data may have been the same fake stats retweeted by Trump during the primaries?)

This 2nd piece shows Google's response to the first piece. Sigh.

The way I first found out about HD was nearly 10 years ago, entering search terms into Google to find out more about Nazi-camps. Even then, a preponderance of hits were to denier sites. I came across Rodoh (also HC IIRC) and visited Rodoh, where I became a lurker for some time before posting there.

There's a part of me that seconds right-wing criticisms of the recent complaining about these sorts of things - and "fake news." The lamentable state of the citizenry's knowledge and critical thinking also enables crap and lies to flourish. Also, toughen the {!#%@} up, normal people: certainly right-wingers and anti-Semites aren't the only people capable of jimmying search results. Another part of me, recognizing that one factor in this lamentable state of knowledge and critical thinking is the dominance of FB, Google and, in education, data-driven interactive digital experiences etc, wants to take a metaphorical (and not digital) sledgehammer to these tech giants.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Angel » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:06 pm

Excuse me for interrupting but does this
mean Google stock is up or down?
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:53 pm

Nessie wrote:From the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -see-world

"Type this into your Google search bar: “did the hol”. And Google suggests you search for this: “Did the Holocaust happen?”. And this is the answer: no. The top result is a link to stormfront.org, a neo-Nazi site and an article entitled: “Top 10 reasons why the Holocaust didn’t happen”. The third result is the article “The Holocaust Hoax; IT NEVER HAPPENED”. The fifth is “50 reasons why the Holocaust didn’t happen.” The seventh is a YouTube video “Did the Holocaust really happen?” The ninth is “Holocaust Against Jews is a Total Lie – Proof.”

So I typed in the search "did the hol" and the top eight suggestions were that "hol" was for holocaust. The last two had "hol" that I was about to search for hollywood. "Holidays" did not even get a mention. When I clicked onto the first "did the holocaust happen" I got

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=did+t ... 8AeX_aTwAQ

1 - Stormfront. No
2 - Wikipedia. Yes
3 - CODOH. No
4 - Expeltheparasite. No
5 - BBC article on denial. Yes
6 - BBC childrens news. Yes
7 - Reddit archived thread. Mix of opinions
8 - USHMM. Yes
9 - Hitler's Children. No
10 - You tube video. No

So four out of ten said yes the Holocaust did happen. Wow! Why is the Skeptic Forum not up there with CODOH? How is that tiny forum so high it beats the BBC? It is clear the denialists are winning the publicity war hands down.

I assure you that if you understood Trump's campaign successes, you'd know that ANY press is sufficient to keep certain things noticeable. And while it may appear that there ARE a lot of 'support' for the conspiracies, the reverse tends to occur instead. So it is just as possible that some of those sites are merely staged to keep this topic alive and my very contention against showcasing this as some specifically significant in reality. An absurd minority are of these extremes. But both the extremes will have a tendency to keep the topic alive. The sincere deniers as well as the sincere anti-deniers (especially those who are most invested in either extreme). It makes it hard to logically determine who is who. Are the apparent deniers actual Anti-Semites? or are they Pro-Semites trying to keep the rest thinking that there is a real threat that may not actually exist but gives them justice to rationalize a call for stronger action against the other?
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Hans » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:14 pm

This might also indicate a disregard of dealing with Holocaust denial. Authors, journalists, historians, bloggers should publish more articles answering why the "Holocaust did happpen" (using such phrase) and people should disseminate and cross-link these in the internet. Unless the google algorithm is fooled, this should solve the denier's dominance for these kind of search terms.

Maybe a new post at the HC blog: "6 Million reasons why the Holocaust did happen"...

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:18 pm

Hans wrote:This might also indicate a disregard of dealing with Holocaust denial. Authors, journalists, historians, bloggers should publish more articles answering why the "Holocaust did happpen" (using such phrase) and people should disseminate and cross-link these in the internet. Unless the google algorithm is fooled, this should solve the denier's dominance for these kind of search terms.

Maybe a new post at the HC blog: "6 Million reasons why the Holocaust did happen"...

The problem I notice though is that there is an easy 'success' for Google to already be eliminating content when or where they see fit on relatively trivial apparent matters. I suspect that there is thus a REASON this material is being preserved. And I doubt that it is merely because there is an actual influx of 'deniers'. Why, for instance, would anyone care to specifically 'deny' some quantity of factual detail when it is extremely irrelevant to even one who might have some hatred issues. It seems more like a fraudulent scapegoat of a non-existing enemy for some profitable gain by both those who might create such sites or to those who are most afraid of the possibility.

If I was discussing some event that happened at a party where I agreed that something bad occurred, what difference does it make if 10 people were harmed versus 50? The only reason this kind of concern would be rational is if one were to demand that absolutely NO ONE was harmed. But if someone is merely contentious about numbers, this seems rather more like a distraction. At least the way I see it, only those who feel unjustly accused for something on either extremes are bound to be the ones arguing at all. And this extremism if unliked of one side in a population, they are deemed terrorists and anti-x supporters while the other is treated as victims and pro-x supporters. But both are just polar opposites of the same thing. They are both victims AND terrorists depending on perspective. On this issue, I see both extremes as Nationalists. One is 'for' Jewish Nationalism and the other is 'for' non-Jewish Nationalism (and often some caricatured 'white' Nationalist on top of it).

This issue is just a false flag either way. And because we can't tell which is which, neither should be trusted and why you get people defaulting to just side with whichever delusional side will harm them less. But their attention makes both those extremists valid and perpetuates the hatred. AND it serves BOTH sides. But it polarizes the natural population to whichever extreme that seems least hazardous based on more genetic animalistic thinking.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:32 pm

What self-important, vacuous twaddle. By far most of the people posting critiques of denial in this forum, e.g., are not Jews and are not Jewish nationalists and not motivated by Jewish nationalism; most also critique denials of Nazi crimes against Russian POWs, disabled populations, Poles, Weimar democrats, Belorussian peasants, and others whom the Nazis targeted. Neither are there a "pro-x" side and or an "extreme" here, either; the Nazi crimes we describe occurred, we discuss them - with evidence; we attempt to understand them - and the character of Nazism and its opponents.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Balsamo » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:21 pm

I just did the test on my google (local one i guess) and my results are less scary.
"What We Did on Our Holiday - Wikipedia" comes first...

Interestingly, a bit down but still on the first page, i got:

"When did Chanukah become an official Jewish holiday? - Questions ..."

Last on my google' page:

"Hol Horse | JoJo's Bizarre Encyclopedia | Fandom powered by Wikia"

Morality, be a nice person and Google will be nice to you.
I am a nice person so my google translate HOL as HOLIDAY and not HOLOCAUST... :D

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:31 pm

Then I am an {!#%@}:

Image
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Balsamo » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:17 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Then I am an {!#%@}:

Image



Not at all,
But Google might think so...Hence it has the ..."ocaust happen" ready for you... :lol:

I don't, just retry the test...now as a bonus i have a link explaining Billie Holiday's death at 44...

Sorry i don't know how to post a print screen... :mrgreen:

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:35 pm

LoL Billie Holiday!

On a Mac, you can print a screen by pressing command + shift + 4, which gives you this little cross symbol where your cursor is, then you can use that to draw a square around what you want to print :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What self-important, vacuous twaddle. By far most of the people posting critiques of denial in this forum, e.g., are not Jews and are not Jewish nationalists and not motivated by Jewish nationalism; most also critique denials of Nazi crimes against Russian POWs, disabled populations, Poles, Weimar democrats, Belorussian peasants, and others whom the Nazis targeted. Neither are there a "pro-x" side and or an "extreme" here, either; the Nazi crimes we describe occurred, we discuss them - with evidence; we attempt to understand them - and the character of Nazism and its opponents.

This is crap then because why is there no section merely on discrimination itself? Why is there a 'unique' concern for one particular racial biased atrocity when this occurs everywhere and by everyone? To me, a sincere battle against the causes of discrimination are to tackle the literal problems associated with the thinking involved. And those actually supporting anti-X abuses where X is assumed some CONSTANT is pro-Superior FOR that X. Instead, I'd like to see people treat X as a real VARIABLE that applies to all people. There isn't any more hatred against the Jews than Jews are against others in kind. Today's vote for Trump was literally due to this kind of NATIONALISTIC appeal to all groups with a common target: white males. And those males who most resisted are NOT the extremes but the targets of those extremes from others assuming that all white males ARE favored.

So I disagree. I understand but disagree. We need to re-orient HOW we question things. The Holocaust is NOT a real concern unless you make it one. By keeping it alive, it serves the Nationalistic Jews (in Israel's Zionist supporters, for instance) who hate in the same way as those Nationalistic Anti-Jews elsewhere. To me, they are BOTH the problem. And the PROOF is that no one is willing to generalize to the problem but to focus on specific targeted us-and-thems. If this was about wanting to stop abuses, this should be a subject area about genocide, not merely the Holocaust, as though this is more significant of an atrocity than other kinds. The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day. It doesn't make it right. But contrast that to the Manson murderers who literally told their victims WHAT they were about to do and punish them slowly. Genocide political atrocities don't simply begin by outright overt hatred, just misinterpretations based on some reality of economic problems elsewhere. Its reactive to some natural causes and less to intentional predisposed hatreds.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:44 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:What self-important, vacuous twaddle. By far most of the people posting critiques of denial in this forum, e.g., are not Jews and are not Jewish nationalists and not motivated by Jewish nationalism; most also critique denials of Nazi crimes against Russian POWs, disabled populations, Poles, Weimar democrats, Belorussian peasants, and others whom the Nazis targeted. Neither are there a "pro-x" side and or an "extreme" here, either; the Nazi crimes we describe occurred, we discuss them - with evidence; we attempt to understand them - and the character of Nazism and its opponents.

This is crap then because why is there no section merely on discrimination itself? Why is there a 'unique' concern for one particular racial biased atrocity when this occurs everywhere and by everyone?

Of course, you're making things up.

Scott Mayers wrote:There isn't any more hatred against the Jews than Jews are against others in kind.

This subforum isn't about your delusions but rather is focused on aspects of the history of the Third Reich and Europe during WWII - and, as relevant, before then.

Scott Mayers wrote:Today's vote for Trump was literally due to this kind of NATIONALISTIC appeal to all groups with a common target: white males. And those males who most resisted are NOT the extremes but the targets of those extremes from others assuming that all white males ARE favored.

???

Scott Mayers wrote:By keeping it alive, it serves the Nationalistic Jews (in Israel's Zionist supporters, for instance) who hate in the same way as those Nationalistic Anti-Jews elsewhere.

I think you have the discussion here mixed up with another discussion, perhaps one going on among the voices in your head. Members of this forum have a range of views on Israel and Zionism - and there are members of this forum who've not expressed or supported a specific view on Israel or Zionism.

Scott Mayers wrote:And the PROOF is that no one is willing to generalize to the problem but to focus on specific targeted us-and-thems.

Perhaps because no one here knows what this means.

Scott Mayers wrote:The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day.

Until now, this subforum has not been about finding more "humane" methods of mass murder.

Scott Mayers wrote:But contrast that to the Manson murderers

Why?

Scott Mayers wrote:Genocide political atrocities don't simply begin by outright overt hatred,

Sources for your understanding of genocide? Btw, I haven't read an argument in this forum stating that "Genocide political atrocities simply begin by outright overt hatred."

This particular thread is about Google search algorithms and results in relationship to Holocaust denial.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Xcalibur » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:59 pm

But contrast that to the Manson murderers




WTF? :roll:

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:14 am

It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:25 am

I don't know.....how many people are actually going to type in "did the hol?"

Anyone wanting to know more about it is going to be specific about what they want.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:31 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:What self-important, vacuous twaddle. By far most of the people posting critiques of denial in this forum, e.g., are not Jews and are not Jewish nationalists and not motivated by Jewish nationalism; most also critique denials of Nazi crimes against Russian POWs, disabled populations, Poles, Weimar democrats, Belorussian peasants, and others whom the Nazis targeted. Neither are there a "pro-x" side and or an "extreme" here, either; the Nazi crimes we describe occurred, we discuss them - with evidence; we attempt to understand them - and the character of Nazism and its opponents.

This is crap then because why is there no section merely on discrimination itself? Why is there a 'unique' concern for one particular racial biased atrocity when this occurs everywhere and by everyone?

Of course, you're making things up.

Scott Mayers wrote:There isn't any more hatred against the Jews than Jews are against others in kind.

This subforum isn't about your delusions but rather is focused on aspects of the history of the Third Reich and Europe during WWII - and, as relevant, before then.

You don't get it. The issues involved in the WWII Germany are way too complex to point out the problems as simply about those who accept versus those who deny the Holocaust in your black and white thinking. You need to generalize to more broad issues that actually CAUSE discrimination. This treats the Jews as specifically targeted by Anti-Semites as though one was purely GOOD and the other purely EVIL. The problems are owned by the Jews as much as the Anti-Semites for the same reasons. And this should include all people for various different kinds of abuses. I don't believe in a cause that supports one KIND of abuse as though the counter abuses should be ignored. If some group appears to be targeted racially, sometimes these are merely accidental by virtue that at least SOME plurality is bound to be more represented in the poor over others. So it is not irrational hatred that is necessarily the causes. It can be happenstance. But if you then turn around and then focus on giving the apparent victims special birthday parties merely by those who are trying to repair something by some other population in a different time, you just ALTER the abuses in a vengeful counter abuse as though this 'balances' things out. The attention to one often comes at the resistance of the same respect to the other and does so generically. Those reparations thus are often at the expense of others who are least responsible.

If you want to stop abuses against women, for instance, you have better success if you also respect that abuses occur to men too and both sexes are at equal fault. Instead, you target the issue as "Domestic Abuse" not something like "Women Against Abuses of Women by Women-haters", which says something as equally intolerant against men in an exclusive and accusatory implicit way.
Scott Mayers wrote:And the PROOF is that no one is willing to generalize to the problem but to focus on specific targeted us-and-thems.

Perhaps because no one here knows what this means.

It means that instead of a Holocaust Denial focus which biases favor to Jews as though they are uniquely special victims and implicit negation against Germans in kind, the subject would be more constructive under the title, "Genocides" or something similar. Why does it matter whether some 'deny' the Holocaust? Perhaps we might go to a site that has a topic section, "Sasquatch Deniers". Does not that title stand to appear oddly biased and suggest something about some agenda favoring Sasquatch believers and against those who are non-Sasquatch believers by default rather than through some open discussion without a clear bias?

Scott Mayers wrote:The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day.

Until now, this subforum has not been about finding more "humane" methods of mass murder.
:?:

I was saying that there are complex issues involved that aren't so black and white. Is it right for one to assert that as an atheist it means that I'm an Anti-Christian intolerant Denier of God? And if I saw this as a heading, I'd be rightfully suspect that it stands out as a sore thumb.

Scott Mayers wrote:But contrast that to the Manson murderers

Why?
Because if you want to solve a problem, you want to compare to the kind of logical issues of related abuses broadly, not simply to some specific group. When I hear someone say, "Under no circumstances is it EVER appropriate to place your hands on a woman," for instance, you imply that men don't have this same 'right' and actually disrespects the very power of the women you are supposed to be uplifting in power. The same goes for all groups. Target the logical issues, not the particular people.
Last edited by Scott Mayers on Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:35 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:54 am

Scott Mayers wrote:You don't get it. The issues involved in the WWII Germany are way too complex to point out the problems as simply about those who accept versus those who deny the Holocaust in your black and white thinking.

You clearly don't keep up. It is deniers who want to reduce study of this period to a simple negation; the rest of us are interested in other questions and, in the course of debate, when it occurs, steer the discussion to more meaningful issues.

Scott Mayers wrote:You need to generalize to more broad issues that actually CAUSE discrimination.

No, I don't. I can look at points of comparison, and I do.

Scott Mayers wrote:This treats the Jews as specifically targeted by Anti-Semites as though one was purely GOOD and the other purely EVIL.

You are not only delusional but stupid and dishonest. No one debating deniers here has ever set up a polarity like this.

Scott Mayers wrote:The problems are owned by the Jews as much as the Anti-Semites for the same reasons.

"Generalizing" like this must make you feel good - and it lets you escape the responsibility to make specific points, use evidence, and explain the evidence you use. More and more empty twaddle.

Scott Mayers wrote:And this should include all people for various different kinds of abuses. I don't believe in a cause that supports one KIND of abuse as though the counter abuses should be ignored. If some group appears to be targeted racially, sometimes these are merely accidental by virtue that at least SOME plurality is bound to be more represented in the poor over others. So it is not irrational hatred that is necessarily the causes. It can be happenstance.

Or, more to the point, there can be historical roots to, er, history, which is what we discuss here, not vacuous sermonizing.

Scott Mayers wrote:But if you then turn around and then focus on giving the apparent victims special birthday parties merely by those who are trying to repair something by some other population in a different time, you just ALTER the abuses in a vengeful counter abuse as though this 'balances' things out. The attention to one often comes at the resistance of the same respect to the other and does so generically. Those reparations are thus are often at the expense of others who are least responsible.

What the {!#%@} are you going on about?

Scott Mayers wrote:If you want to stop abuses against women, for instance, you have better success if you also respect that abuses occur to men too and both sexes are at equal fault. Instead, you target the issue as "Domestic Abuse" not something like "Women Against Abuses of Women", which says something as equally intolerant against men in an exclusive and accusative way.

You've never studied history. Fair enough.

Scott Mayers wrote:It means that instead of a Holocaust Denial focus which biases favor to Jews as though they are uniquely special victims and implicit negation against Germans in kind, the subject would be more constructive under the title, "Genocides" or something similar. Why does it matter whether some 'deny' the Holocaust? Perhaps we might go to a site that has a topic section, "Sasquatch Deniers". Does not that title stand to appear oddly biased and suggest something about some agenda favoring Sasquatch believers and against those who are non-Sasquatch believers by default rather than through some open discussion without a clear bias?

Actually, there are sites for discussion of conspiracy theorizing. There are also sites for specific CTs. So what? This subforum, despite the title, is not solely about Nazi crimes against Jews, because to discuss only that would be to decontextualize the genocide of the Jews and to mischaracterize it; the genocide of the Jews was part of an extremely violent period, in which civilian populations were targeted for violent treatment from below and above. We discuss all that here. Analogously, in this subforum we have had many discussions about Judeo-Bolshevism, the Hunger Plan, the siege of Leningrad, mass murder of Soviet POWs, the Kommissarbefehl, the anti-partisan war, etc - recognizing Nazi criminality but without anyone coming remotely close to "taking the side" of Soviet "nationalism," Stalin, or the USSR. You seem to have a strangely limited ability to think about this sort of thing.

I truly think you'd be better off discussing the Manson family than what you're trying here. In another subforum, though, please.

Scott Mayers wrote:I was saying that there are complex issues involved that aren't so black and white.

Who said that the issues are black and white or simple?

Scott Mayers wrote:Is it right for one to assert that as an atheist it means that I'm an Anti-Christian intolerant Denier of God? And if I saw this as a heading, I'd be rightfully suspect that it stands out as a sore thumb.

I think you're in the wrong subforum.

Scott Mayers wrote:if you want to solve a problem, you want to compare to the kind of logical issues of related abuses broadly,

This forum isn't about solving a problem or trying to reduce historical developments, wars, genocide to logical issues concerning abuse.

Scott Mayers wrote:not simply to some specific group.

Which specific group do you have in mind? I've already told you that no one debating deniers here speaks for or about a single, specific group.

Scott Mayers wrote:When I hear someone say, "Under no circumstances is it EVER appropriate to place your hands on a woman," for instance, you imply that men don't have this same 'right' and actually disrespects the very power of the women you are supposed to be uplifting in power. The same goes for all groups. Target the logical issues, not the particular people.

Dude, I am sorry you have these difficulties and your evident confusion, but I need to say that your problems with women and your fragile male ego belong in a forum on abnormal psychology, not in here.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:04 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:07 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.

Your point seems correct to me. But I think that the autocomplete - which was the author's point in both her pieces - is strange in a number of cases which the author has highlighted, including this one. Impressionistically, considering say academic output, I think that Google pukes up a disproportionate amount of denial. From various searches.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Denying-History » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:55 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.


:) Sure, but the difference is between Holocaust Denial and those whom follow denying things like nuclear weapons is that one is more plausible then the other. Searching up something like holocaust denial is highly unlikely to wind someone up around nuke-lies. I only really discovered Rerevisionist after a deep dig into the dark side of youtube.

And most people know what they say is inherent nonsense. It simply only takes someone a bit of critical thinking to debunk their claim, which even the holocaust deniers are able to do. Take Darkmoon as an example.

https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/the-no-nuclear-bombs-conspiracy-theory/

Even if someone goes looking for holocaust related items, I would say its rather quite implied they will wind up with the USHMM, history's website, or Wikipedia. I decided to test this for myself and searched "holocaust" in google. The first page which actually had a denial website was page two, and that was only "biblebelievers". Something I doubt most students would click on, as they will most likely run to the USHMM or wiki. I haven't tried all the combinations though, so I may have a few more searches to do.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:10 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.


:) Sure, but the difference is between Holocaust Denial and those whom follow denying things like nuclear weapons is that one is more plausible then the other. Searching up something like holocaust denial is highly unlikely to wind someone up around nuke-lies. I only really discovered Rerevisionist after a deep dig into the dark side of youtube.

And most people know what they say is inherent nonsense. It simply only takes someone a bit of critical thinking to debunk their claim, which even the holocaust deniers are able to do. Take Darkmoon as an example.

https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/the-no-nuclear-bombs-conspiracy-theory/

Even if someone goes looking for holocaust related items, I would say its rather quite implied they will wind up with the USHMM, history's website, or Wikipedia. I decided to test this for myself and searched "holocaust" in google. The first page which actually had a denial website was page two, and that was only "biblebelievers". Something I doubt most students would click on, as they will most likely run to the USHMM or wiki. I haven't tried all the combinations though, so I may have a few more searches to do.


I came across the darkmoon article as well.

I've randomly run searches since this came up. Naturally the more specific you get the more denial sites pop up, this being the absolute winner:

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+the+holocaust+a+hoax%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

But general searches pull up less denial.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Denying-History » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:24 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.


:) Sure, but the difference is between Holocaust Denial and those whom follow denying things like nuclear weapons is that one is more plausible then the other. Searching up something like holocaust denial is highly unlikely to wind someone up around nuke-lies. I only really discovered Rerevisionist after a deep dig into the dark side of youtube.

And most people know what they say is inherent nonsense. It simply only takes someone a bit of critical thinking to debunk their claim, which even the holocaust deniers are able to do. Take Darkmoon as an example.

https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/the-no-nuclear-bombs-conspiracy-theory/

Even if someone goes looking for holocaust related items, I would say its rather quite implied they will wind up with the USHMM, history's website, or Wikipedia. I decided to test this for myself and searched "holocaust" in google. The first page which actually had a denial website was page two, and that was only "biblebelievers". Something I doubt most students would click on, as they will most likely run to the USHMM or wiki. I haven't tried all the combinations though, so I may have a few more searches to do.


I came across the darkmoon article as well.

I've randomly run searches since this came up. Naturally the more specific you get the more denial sites pop up, this being the absolute winner:

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+the+holocaust+a+hoax%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

But general searches pull up less denial.


Question is there how meany people actually do such a specific search? I don't have the statistical data, but on a conservative guess it seems like more people would search something unspecific depending then start getting more specific as they go along. Take for example searching "Holocaust denial"

https://www.google.com/search?num=30&client=safari&hl=en-us&q=holocaust+denial&oq=holocaust+denial&gs_l=serp.3..35i39k1l2j0i20k1l2j0l6.68044.71798.0.72797.16.16.0.0.0.0.210.2234.0j15j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.16.2222...0i67k1j0i131k1.x5crv18imXk

Majority of the items turn out to be Anti-revisionist platforms. Though you are correct, that search did show a disproportionate amount of websites.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:31 am

"...how meany people actually do such a specific search?" - I'd say rottenly. :-P

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:32 am

scrmbldggs wrote:"...how meany people actually do such a specific search?" - I'd say rottenly. :-P


:lol:

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Gord » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:15 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:That Guardian article is interesting. Thanks for bringing this up. A week previous, the same writer had a piece "Google, democracy and the truth about internet search: Tech-savvy rightwingers have been able to ‘game’ the algorithms of internet giants and create a new reality where Hitler is a good guy, Jews are evil and… Donald Trump becomes president", which led off with a query "are jews" - which in turn autocompleted in the Google search bar as "are jews evil" and returned hits saying, mostly, for sure.

My top three for "are jews" come back as:

Are Jews white?
Are Jews a race?
Are Jews Christian?

:lol: :pardon:
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:55 am

Stat mech,

I've already stated this with clarity and am not the idiot here. Continuing to support some one-sided assumption of conspiracy theorists IS creating a conspiracy of its own where the other either doesn't exist or strengthens their own reality by being treated as the enemy. I don't like the State of Israel for this very thinking. It is to me not about some evil Palestinians but evil Zionists who think they are some 'special' race that needs a domain of Jewish-only rulers.

This section is just as I pointed out about how it would be if you went to some other site and saw a main section on "Jesus Denying". It (a) says that the site supports a political belief that favors Christianity UNIQUELY. It then says (b) that anyone who DOESN'T believe in Jesus' historical reality are nutcases that are of an unusually significant concern needing extra careful consideration. And it stinks of propaganda that is intending some indirect support for Christianity. And just as all propaganda operates, there is an interest to exaggerate some concern and caricature it like comic book heroes and villains.

I have never met ONE Holocaust denier. I don't doubt there is. But they are more likely created falsely out of some group intending their own need to profit from this kind of behavior in some way. So we get ancient alien stories of our origins that are just as likely begun by other skeptics just 'testing' the gullibility of the people and desiring to profit from it. To me, we have more of a concern to question stances that appear extremely out of place. Holocaust Denial is just this. Why not a section on Gaybashing Denial, or Rape Culture Denial? These seem more relevant in today's terms. And NO, I'm not suggesting we set up these uniquely either. But do you not get the point here? If it picks up one specific KIND of concern as more prevalent, then it suggests that we should treat this as a red flag.

You won't find Israel, for instance, having an Muslim Genocide Memorial set up in the middle of any town there. But you MIGHT find some Jewish Genocide Memorial. If you got lost and didn't know where you were, should you find one of these memorials or the other, would this not inform you of WHERE you likely are?
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Balsamo » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:15 pm

Scott Mayers:

I've already stated this with clarity


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:17 pm

I tried a bunch of searches this morning - "what is the holocaust?", "how many jews were killed in the holocaust?", "holocaust death toll," "when was the holocaust?", "why did the holocaust happen?" In these five searches, only one HD result was returned on page 1 - and that was the last result for "why did the holocaust happen?" ("Top 10 reasons why the holocaust didn't happen" - Stormfront). Searches for "treblinka," "auschwitz," and "majdanek" scored zero HD hits, as did a search for "elie wiesel." So I probably need to correct the impression I stated above a bit - these results are far better than what I was getting nearly a decade ok, when the % of HD results gave the appearance of historical credibility to HD.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:20 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:....... Are the apparent deniers actual Anti-Semites? or are they Pro-Semites trying to keep the rest thinking that there is a real threat that may not actually exist but gives them justice to rationalize a call for stronger action against the other?


Going by the language used, they are anti-Semitic, varying from rabid hatred to CTs who believe the Jews run the world to those who are more Israel haters then Jew haters.

I have been regularly pointing out to them that the Anti-Semitics are doing more damage to denialism than any counter arguments can. But there is not attempt to moderate those who are out and out Jew haters.

So in effect they are the gift that keeps on giving by perpetually shooting themselves in the foot, so limiting their appeal to only the far, racist right. The problem comes when the far, racist right is on the rise.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:22 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:Why is there a 'unique' concern for one particular racial biased atrocity when this occurs everywhere and by everyone?


Because this was the most costly genocide in history and the only one committed by industrial means. The German policies in Occupied Russia after their hypothetical victory would have eclipsed it but thankfully that didn't happen.

By keeping it alive, it serves the Nationalistic Jews (in Israel's Zionist supporters, for instance) who hate in the same way as those Nationalistic Anti-Jews elsewhere.


Not true. Most people are disgusted by Netenyahu's use of the victims as a political football, myself included. That use also fools no one - the Holocaust and Zionisim are not linked at all. Israel would have likely been created eventually anyway and there was a partition plan to that extent set out in 1937 called the Peel Agreement that fell by the wayside. Many of the victims would not have considered themselves Zionists.

The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day.


They did plenty of other stuff other than gassing: shooting, hanging, beating to death, starving. They frequently burned Soviet POW's alive or froze them to death, they dragged wounded Canadian POW's onto a road to be run over by tanks, they were {!#%@} animals.

But contrast that to the Manson murderers who literally told their victims WHAT they were about to do and punish them slowly.


Contrast 7-22 dead with 4.8 million dead.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:42 pm

The Holocaust gets the most publicity because it was in Europe and the victims were those from a religion which is spread across the world and relatively well off. So there are people with the money and desire to memorialise it all over the world. Others such as Rwandans and Cambodians are not so well off nor spread about the world, so people abroad as not as aware or have memorials. Others such as the Russians and Turks are not as accepting as the Germans are that their countries were perpetrators of genocides. Hence the lack of knowledge about those genocides.

I also think that since the Nazis were the self styled top of the racial pecking order, were fascists, had fancy uniforms and came from an otherwise respectable country, they appeal to the white far right, unlike the Slavic people, let alone the Chinese, Africans and Cambodians.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:45 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day.


Huh?

Imagine, if you will, a large amount of people locked in a van, a makeshift gas chamber (ARC) or the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

The SS stuffed as many people as they could into these gas chambers so the victims are already suffering before the engine turns on or the trap door opens. Now, either the van or chamber starts to fill with exhaust fumes or cyanide gas. People panic and try to get away from the source of the toxin so you have a pileup against the door. People suffocate or get crushed under this wall of humanity.

Now, the choking starts for the survivors. They are dying of Carbon Monoxide or cyanide poisoning. It takes about 20-30 minutes to die....longer, perhaps, for the Carbon Monoxide to take affect.

There are witnesses who said that victims at Chelmno and the ARC revived when brought out into the cold air and who the SS shot.

Think about how long those 30 minutes were for those trapped in those rooms.

No, Scott, not humane for the victims...humane for the killers.

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Like the nitwit said, tame.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:51 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:The Nazis were actually relatively 'tame' compared to other similar atrocities simply by seeking methods of killing with a more 'humane' direction for its day.


Huh?

Imagine, if you will, a large amount of people locked in a van, a makeshift gas chamber (ARC) or the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

The SS stuffed as many people as they could into these gas chambers so the victims are already suffering before the engine turns on or the trap door opens. Now, either the van or chamber starts to fill with exhaust fumes or cyanide gas. People panic and try to get away from the source of the toxin so you have a pileup against the door. People suffocate or get crushed under this wall of humanity.

Now, the choking starts for the survivors. They are dying of Carbon Monoxide or cyanide poisoning. It takes about 20-30 minutes to die....longer, perhaps, for the Carbon Monoxide to take affect.

There are witnesses who said that victims at Chelmno and the ARC revived when brought out into the cold air and who the SS shot.

Think about how long those 30 minutes were for those trapped in those rooms.

No, Scott, not humane for the victims...humane for the killers.

And one might want to add to that the torturous transports in overfilled and guarded but neglected cattle cars often lasting several days and miserable life in general before being herded off to the killings...

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:59 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:.....

No, Scott, not humane for the victims...humane for the killers.


Nail on head. Read Otto Ohlendorf's testimony about the work of the Einsatzgruppen at the Nikolaev Massacre in Ukraine;

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... imony.html

" OHLENDORF: I knew that the Einsatzkommandos were using the vans.

COL. POKROVSKY: No, I had something else in mind. I wanted to know whether you received reports that members of the execution squads were unwilling to use the vans and preferred other means of execution?

OHLENDORF: That they would rather kill by means of the gas vans than by shooting?

COL. POKROVSKY: On the contrary, that they preferred execution by shooting to killing by means of the gas vans.

OHLENDORF: You have already said the gas van...

COL. POKROVSKY: And why did they prefer execution by shooting to killing in the gas vans?

OHLENDORF: Because, as I have already said, in the opinion of the leader of the Einsatzkommandos, the unloading of the corpses was an unnecessary mental strain.

COL. POKROVSKY: What do you mean by "an unnecessary mental strain"?

OHLENDORF: As far as I can remember the conditions at that time - the picture presented by the corpses and probably because certain functions of the body had taken place leaving the corpses lying in filth."

That is opposite to other claims that the strain of shooting was too much, but Ohlendorf's men were having to empty the gas vans, not like at the AR camps where Sonderkommandos did the dirty work.
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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:31 pm

What makes Scott Mayer's posts all the emptier - yet more repugnant - are two issues that arise from study of the war years: first, as Jeff_36 writes, diverse Jewish communities across Europe were targeted in ways that their neighbors were not - including the effort to exterminate European Jews en masse; second, across Europe responses to the Nazi was against Jews varied but time and again non-Jews showed indifference to the ways in which Jews were attacked, as though Nazi categories did in fact govern and the Nazis had succeeded in promoting an idea of "the Jews." In this sense, the fate of Jews was often understood as a matter separate to what was happening to one's country, to one's real neighbors, or in one's "world." What Scott seems to advocate is a repeat of this pattern of targeting Jews for "special treatment" by his arguing that historical study which recognizes what happened to European Jews is somehow a national or religious promotion of Israel or a Jewish agenda which Scott won't state outright.

Scott's posts do not mention the historical context for the Holocaust nor developments, events, plans, actions, responses, or contemporary thinking. By generalizing and philosophizing, Scott imagines himself free to peddle whatever prejudices, misunderstanding or outright bigotry he wishes.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: Google is being dominated by Holocaust denial sites

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:12 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It really depends on how you search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

None of the 12 entries on the first page have anything to do with Holocaust denial.

As in the article, I typed in, "did the hot". I'm sure that other phrases will autocomplete differently, etc.


If you don't pick anything you get some very interesting results...:lol:

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+the+hol&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


Seriously, I'm not trying to downplay this. Anyone can post anything on the internet and someone will believe it. The internet does spread not only HD but all sorts of garbage that no sane person should believe:

https://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/1-welcome-do-nuclear-bombs-exist.html

http://humansarefree.com/2015/09/13-pieces-of-evidence-supporting-hollow.html?m=0

It's why I think HDOT and Holocaust Controversies are so important.


:) Sure, but the difference is between Holocaust Denial and those whom follow denying things like nuclear weapons is that one is more plausible then the other. Searching up something like holocaust denial is highly unlikely to wind someone up around nuke-lies. I only really discovered Rerevisionist after a deep dig into the dark side of youtube.

And most people know what they say is inherent nonsense. It simply only takes someone a bit of critical thinking to debunk their claim, which even the holocaust deniers are able to do. Take Darkmoon as an example.

https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/the-no-nuclear-bombs-conspiracy-theory/

Even if someone goes looking for holocaust related items, I would say its rather quite implied they will wind up with the USHMM, history's website, or Wikipedia. I decided to test this for myself and searched "holocaust" in google. The first page which actually had a denial website was page two, and that was only "biblebelievers". Something I doubt most students would click on, as they will most likely run to the USHMM or wiki. I haven't tried all the combinations though, so I may have a few more searches to do.


I came across the darkmoon article as well.

I've randomly run searches since this came up. Naturally the more specific you get the more denial sites pop up, this being the absolute winner:

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+the+holocaust+a+hoax%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

But general searches pull up less denial.


Question is there how meany people actually do such a specific search? I don't have the statistical data, but on a conservative guess it seems like more people would search something unspecific depending then start getting more specific as they go along. Take for example searching "Holocaust denial"

https://www.google.com/search?num=30&client=safari&hl=en-us&q=holocaust+denial&oq=holocaust+denial&gs_l=serp.3..35i39k1l2j0i20k1l2j0l6.68044.71798.0.72797.16.16.0.0.0.0.210.2234.0j15j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.16.2222...0i67k1j0i131k1.x5crv18imXk

Majority of the items turn out to be Anti-revisionist platforms. Though you are correct, that search did show a disproportionate amount of websites.


Just out of curiosity, I googled "what was the Holocaust?"

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+was+the+holocaust&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=414&bih=696&prmd=visn&ei=d-dOWL_VEsfxmQGc-qSICQ&start=0&sa=N

No denier sites popped up in the first two pages and I didn't look any further. It is interesting that in all my searches Wikipedia always pops up in the top five...:lol:


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