Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:15 pm

Well, there's that ignore function... :pardon:





:hmm: Oh wow! That worked too!
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:27 pm

the "public confession" claim you make is nothing more than a strawman. Address my Holodomar comparison, or I will put you on ignore.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:33 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:the "public confession" claim you make is nothing more than a strawman. Address my Holodomar comparison, or I will put you on ignore.

Stalin as a Holodomor denialist? Is that supposed to be controversial issue?

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:But Mary's right with regard to Monstrous's point - we can debate why, but it is clear that the Soviets didn't "divide the dead" and thus didn't fabricate evidence for the extermination of Jews. :)

Yep, if the Communists built a fake gas chamber but did not "divide" who was claimed to be killed there, then Jews must have been killed there!

Right?

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:44 pm

No. This may be the dumbest post you've made in a long series of astonishingly dumb posts.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:45 pm

Another evidence of no "Communist Holocaust denial" is that the Communists sent Jews to trials in Western Europe, accompanied by handlers and with their families as hostages to ensure their return, and where they stated that Jews were killed, obviously following the proscribed Communist party line.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:46 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

False. I've linked you to posts explaining the Bormann circular, in the light of other evidence about the east (from Katzmann) - and, speaking of dodges, requested you tell us where in the east Bormann meant and provide evidence for Jews being sent there.

Monstrous checked.

SM has in fact not explained why Bormann is contradicting Hitler's public confession.

You can type whatever you wish. But you're a dishonest {!#%@}. I told you that Bormann's circular was "the propaganda explanation" for party members and the rationale they were to use, "transported still farther to the East," was not possible in reality. {!#%@} deal with it but do not lie about it.

Cannot dodge the Monstrous!

Monstrous can really sense that the Believers really want to confess that Hitler did not confess the Holocaust in his public speeches and that "Vernichtung" does not necessarily mean "extermination!!! But what would happen then!?

Blasphemy!!! Will the Believers be merely imprisoned for Holocaust denial? Or maybe turned to a pillar of salt and placed for public scorn and admonition in a Holocaust temple portico?

Keep on dodging.... You cannot escape the Monstrous!

Yeah, it is far easier for you to type silly pats on your back for yourself than deal with the text and circumstances of the document you introduced.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:51 pm

Monstrous wrote:Another evidence of no "Communist Holocaust denial"

This is a dishonest rewording of my argument. You still haven't dealt with this post. Both you and Mary are off on some tangent to what's been argued. Also, please do keep dodging discussion of the Bormann circular, you need to as your entire thread premise has blown up in your face.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:. . . The Jaeger report is obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy.

Jaeger himself attested to compiling statistics in his trial testimony.

Actually, Jäger never testified in court, as he committed suicide before his trial. He was interrogated whilst in custody, however, and ironically his interrogation statements, not the details of his Report, were "obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy." Jäger's interrogation replies also included the standard defenses (e.g., superior orders, inner feelings) used by the perpetrators in the NMT EG trial - and Jäger added in the novel "things happened all by themselves" defense:
When I arrived in Kauen (Kaunas) the shootings of Jews were already under way, i.e. Jews had already been shot and were being shot. These shootings were supposed to have been carried out by the Lithuanian auxiliary police. Who told me so I don't know; I hardly think that I received a service report about this from Hamann or Wolf. On whose instructions these shootings were carried out is not known to me. Neither can I say whether Ehrlinger or Wolf with their people took an active part. Tolerate it they certainly did, for otherwise the shootings by the Lithuanians would not have continued. I myself also didn't interdict these shootings, because through Heydrich's address on occasion of the meeting in Berlin it had been established that the Jews in the East must be shot. Besides this address by Heydrich I had until then received no more detailed oral or written order from the RSHA or from another entity.

I saw this statement of Heydrich's as a binding order that upon taking up my activity in the East the Jews were to be shot. Therefore I did nothing against these shootings. Inside however I rejected them and considered it cruel and terrible that people were being killed or were to be killed only because of their faith and their race. I wish to point out, however, that I never issued an order to any member of my office to shoot a certain number of Jews or to shoot Jews at all. I also didn’t have to do this, because things happened all by themselves.

How many Jews had already been shot until my arrival or during the first days I cannot say, but there may have been several thousand. As I remember these shootings were carried out in the old Forts 7 and 9 in Kauen. Whether at the time of my arrival or shortly thereafter Jews were also shot in Wilna, I no longer know. I consider it quite possible, however.

When I arrived at Kauen there was a Lithuanian police there authorized by the Germans. The commander of the security police was the Lithuanian Cenkus. Furthermore there was a so-called shooting detachment, about 50 to 100 Lithuanians strong, under the Lithuanian lieutenant Norkus.

Norkus and his detachment were later subordinated to Hamann and carried out the shootings of Jews together with him. Hamann acted in complete independence. I never gave him shooting orders. I only received reports about the number of those shot from case to case. These were then reported via Stahlecker to the RSHA in the Action Reports (Ereignismeldungen) together with other situation reports that bore my signature. The Action Reports were put together from the various sections' individual reports by my office - "topkick" Porst – and submitted to me for signature.

This exculpatory narrative, given when the authorities were not yet aware of Jäger's report, flies directly in the face of his 1941 statement that the executions of Jews in Lithuanian were "carried out by Lithuanian partisans on my instructions and under my command."
from interrogation protocol, quoted in HC series on Jäger report

Monstrous checked!

Actually, that refer only to the two first claimed executions. The report then states that "the following operations were carried out in collaboration with Lithuanian partisans". Thus, equal blame for Germans and Lithuanians, making them equal to the Nazis, perfect for discrediting Lithuanian nationalism.

But the number of Germans is ridiculously small, so most killings must have been done by the Lithuanians, making them worse than the Nazis!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:17 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:. . . The Jaeger report is obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy.

Jaeger himself attested to compiling statistics in his trial testimony.

Actually, Jäger never testified in court, as he committed suicide before his trial. He was interrogated whilst in custody, however, and ironically his interrogation statements, not the details of his Report, were "obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy." Jäger's interrogation replies also included the standard defenses (e.g., superior orders, inner feelings) used by the perpetrators in the NMT EG trial - and Jäger added in the novel "things happened all by themselves" defense:
When I arrived in Kauen (Kaunas) the shootings of Jews were already under way, i.e. Jews had already been shot and were being shot. These shootings were supposed to have been carried out by the Lithuanian auxiliary police. Who told me so I don't know; I hardly think that I received a service report about this from Hamann or Wolf. On whose instructions these shootings were carried out is not known to me. Neither can I say whether Ehrlinger or Wolf with their people took an active part. Tolerate it they certainly did, for otherwise the shootings by the Lithuanians would not have continued. I myself also didn't interdict these shootings, because through Heydrich's address on occasion of the meeting in Berlin it had been established that the Jews in the East must be shot. Besides this address by Heydrich I had until then received no more detailed oral or written order from the RSHA or from another entity.

I saw this statement of Heydrich's as a binding order that upon taking up my activity in the East the Jews were to be shot. Therefore I did nothing against these shootings. Inside however I rejected them and considered it cruel and terrible that people were being killed or were to be killed only because of their faith and their race. I wish to point out, however, that I never issued an order to any member of my office to shoot a certain number of Jews or to shoot Jews at all. I also didn’t have to do this, because things happened all by themselves.

How many Jews had already been shot until my arrival or during the first days I cannot say, but there may have been several thousand. As I remember these shootings were carried out in the old Forts 7 and 9 in Kauen. Whether at the time of my arrival or shortly thereafter Jews were also shot in Wilna, I no longer know. I consider it quite possible, however.

When I arrived at Kauen there was a Lithuanian police there authorized by the Germans. The commander of the security police was the Lithuanian Cenkus. Furthermore there was a so-called shooting detachment, about 50 to 100 Lithuanians strong, under the Lithuanian lieutenant Norkus.

Norkus and his detachment were later subordinated to Hamann and carried out the shootings of Jews together with him. Hamann acted in complete independence. I never gave him shooting orders. I only received reports about the number of those shot from case to case. These were then reported via Stahlecker to the RSHA in the Action Reports (Ereignismeldungen) together with other situation reports that bore my signature. The Action Reports were put together from the various sections' individual reports by my office - "topkick" Porst – and submitted to me for signature.

This exculpatory narrative, given when the authorities were not yet aware of Jäger's report, flies directly in the face of his 1941 statement that the executions of Jews in Lithuanian were "carried out by Lithuanian partisans on my instructions and under my command."
from interrogation protocol, quoted in HC series on Jäger report

Monstrous checked!

Actually, that refer only to the two first claimed executions. The report then states that "the following operations were carried out in collaboration with Lithuanian partisans". Thus, equal blame for Germans and Lithuanians, making them equal to the Nazis, perfect for discrediting Lithuanian nationalism.

But the number of Germans is ridiculously small, so most killings must have been done by the Lithuanians, making them worse than the Nazis!


:rotfl:

Ah, Monstrous. You never disappoint.

I do want to thank you for pulling out attention this way so that we could get off Trump.

Anyway....
The Lithuanians collaborated with the Germans but this wasn't something they would have done on their own. The Germans encouraged the Lithuanians to murder Jews, so, ultimately, it is their responsibility.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:24 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:. . . The Jaeger report is obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy.

Jaeger himself attested to compiling statistics in his trial testimony.

Actually, Jäger never testified in court, as he committed suicide before his trial. He was interrogated whilst in custody, however, and ironically his interrogation statements, not the details of his Report, were "obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy." Jäger's interrogation replies also included the standard defenses (e.g., superior orders, inner feelings) used by the perpetrators in the NMT EG trial - and Jäger added in the novel "things happened all by themselves" defense:
When I arrived in Kauen (Kaunas) the shootings of Jews were already under way, i.e. Jews had already been shot and were being shot. These shootings were supposed to have been carried out by the Lithuanian auxiliary police. Who told me so I don't know; I hardly think that I received a service report about this from Hamann or Wolf. On whose instructions these shootings were carried out is not known to me. Neither can I say whether Ehrlinger or Wolf with their people took an active part. Tolerate it they certainly did, for otherwise the shootings by the Lithuanians would not have continued. I myself also didn't interdict these shootings, because through Heydrich's address on occasion of the meeting in Berlin it had been established that the Jews in the East must be shot. Besides this address by Heydrich I had until then received no more detailed oral or written order from the RSHA or from another entity.

I saw this statement of Heydrich's as a binding order that upon taking up my activity in the East the Jews were to be shot. Therefore I did nothing against these shootings. Inside however I rejected them and considered it cruel and terrible that people were being killed or were to be killed only because of their faith and their race. I wish to point out, however, that I never issued an order to any member of my office to shoot a certain number of Jews or to shoot Jews at all. I also didn’t have to do this, because things happened all by themselves.

How many Jews had already been shot until my arrival or during the first days I cannot say, but there may have been several thousand. As I remember these shootings were carried out in the old Forts 7 and 9 in Kauen. Whether at the time of my arrival or shortly thereafter Jews were also shot in Wilna, I no longer know. I consider it quite possible, however.

When I arrived at Kauen there was a Lithuanian police there authorized by the Germans. The commander of the security police was the Lithuanian Cenkus. Furthermore there was a so-called shooting detachment, about 50 to 100 Lithuanians strong, under the Lithuanian lieutenant Norkus.

Norkus and his detachment were later subordinated to Hamann and carried out the shootings of Jews together with him. Hamann acted in complete independence. I never gave him shooting orders. I only received reports about the number of those shot from case to case. These were then reported via Stahlecker to the RSHA in the Action Reports (Ereignismeldungen) together with other situation reports that bore my signature. The Action Reports were put together from the various sections' individual reports by my office - "topkick" Porst – and submitted to me for signature.

This exculpatory narrative, given when the authorities were not yet aware of Jäger's report, flies directly in the face of his 1941 statement that the executions of Jews in Lithuanian were "carried out by Lithuanian partisans on my instructions and under my command."
from interrogation protocol, quoted in HC series on Jäger report

Monstrous checked!

Actually, that refer only to the two first claimed executions. The report then states that "the following operations were carried out in collaboration with Lithuanian partisans". Thus, equal blame for Germans and Lithuanians, making them equal to the Nazis, perfect for discrediting Lithuanian nationalism.

But the number of Germans is ridiculously small, so most killings must have been done by the Lithuanians, making them worse than the Nazis!

Seriously? So what?

Jäger told his interrogators that
When I arrived in Kauen (Kaunas) the shootings of Jews were already under way, i.e. Jews had already been shot and were being shot. These shootings were supposed to have been carried out by the Lithuanian auxiliary police. Who told me so I don't know . . . On whose instructions these shootings were carried out is not known to me.

Well, unknown to him who was in charge and giving orders, he claimed in 1959 - only the report Jäger wrote in 1941 says clearly that he himself gave orders first to Lithuanian partisans, as quoted, and subsequently the murders were carried out by “a raiding commando under the leadership of SS First Lieutenant Hamann and 8 to 10 reliable men from Einsatzkommando 3, the following operations were carried out in collaboration with Lithuanian partisans.” Who gave orders to Hamann and under whose command did Lithuanian collaborators operate? Oh, whoopsie, Jäger explained this, too, in his report, which I didn’t quote in full (just enough to show he lied to his questioner):
I also wanted to kill these Work Jews, including their families, which however brought upon me acrimonious challenges from the civil administration (the Reichskommisar) and the army and caused the prohibition: the Work Jews and their families are not to be shot! The goal of making Lithuania free of Jews could only be attained through the deployment of a raiding commando with selected men under the leadership of SS First Lieutenant Hamann, who completely and entirely adopted my goals and understood the importance of ensuring the co-operation of the Lithuanian partisans and the competent civilian positions.

Jäger explained further that
All the leaders and men of my commando in Kauen have taken part actively in the large-scale operations. . . . I consider the Jewish operations for Einsatzkommando 3 as essentially completed.

He then recommended sterilizing Jews kept alive for labor through the winter.

So 1) Jäger was in charge of the operation, 2) his 1941 reported his success in exterminating over 130,000 Lithuanian Jews, 3) in his report he complained that he had to keep a minority of working Jews alive, 4) in his report he claimed that "the goal of solving the Jewish problem for Lithuania has been achieved by Einsatzkommando 3" - that is, under his leadership he'd solved the Jewish question in Lithuania, and 5) in his report he described how Hamann's unit gained the cooperation of and provided leadership to Lithuanian killers and officials.

You give so much help in your posts to those arguing against you I wonder if you're considering switching sides, so to speak, as BRoI did.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:35 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote::rotfl:

Ah, Monstrous. You never disappoint.

I do want to thank you for pulling out attention this way so that we could get off Trump.

Anyway....
The Lithuanians collaborated with the Germans but this wasn't something they would have done on their own. The Germans encouraged the Lithuanians to murder Jews, so, ultimately, it is their responsibility.

Plus how many times have we been over - with long and detailed posts - the command structure and manpower involved in EK3's operations in Lithuania? He just posts as though no one has previously destroyed his repetitious drivel.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:37 pm

Someone doesn't want to discuss the Bormann circular any more.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Balsamo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:50 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

False. I've linked you to posts explaining the Bormann circular, in the light of other evidence about the east (from Katzmann) - and, speaking of dodges, requested you tell us where in the east Bormann meant and provide evidence for Jews being sent there.

Monstrous checked.

SM has in fact not explained why Bormann is contradicting Hitler's public confession.

You can type whatever you wish. But you're a dishonest {!#%@}. I told you that Bormann's circular was "the propaganda explanation" for party members and the rationale they were to use, "transported still farther to the East," was not possible in reality. {!#%@} deal with it but do not lie about it.

Cannot dodge the Monstrous!

Monstrous can really sense that the Believers really want to confess that Hitler did not confess the Holocaust in his public speeches and that "Vernichtung" does not necessarily mean "extermination!!! But what would happen then!?

Blasphemy!!! Will the Believers be merely imprisoned for Holocaust denial? Or maybe turned to a pillar of salt and placed for public scorn and admonition in a Holocaust temple portico?

Keep on dodging.... You cannot escape the Monstrous!


No one dodges, Monstrous, you just don't read what is being written on this forum. There are a couple of threads that deals with those subjects, starting with the Wannsee thread in which i mention the theory of french historian Brayard - a theory i am the only one here to agree with as it clearly is closed to my personal theories, and which has the merits to address those documents.
He is not in Jail and even gave a conference in Israel on it.

You have already started another thread with more of such documents quoting a Metapedia article. I think i have expressed myself on that occasion.
Now i personally don't have that much time to lose writing things you won't read anyway.

So i am out.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Balsamo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Someone doesn't want to discuss the Bormann circular any more.


Actually, i do, but then, not in this thread and only when i have the time to it properly... ;)

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:53 pm

Well, the someone in this case is Monstrous, who started the thread saying that the circular is evidence that there was no mass extermination of the Jews and is now trying to divert the thread from his initial claims.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:40 am

Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:the "public confession" claim you make is nothing more than a strawman. Address my Holodomar comparison, or I will put you on ignore.

Stalin as a Holodomor denialist? Is that supposed to be controversial issue?


You fail to understand my point: culprits making shoddy coverups for their obvious atrocities is nothing new, and your imbecility is exposed by your desperat clutching onto this pathetic circular that is contradicted by virtually every other bit of available evidence.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:47 am

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:But Mary's right with regard to Monstrous's point - we can debate why, but it is clear that the Soviets didn't "divide the dead" and thus didn't fabricate evidence for the extermination of Jews. :)

Yep, if the Communists built a fake gas chamber but did not "divide" who was claimed to be killed there, then Jews must have been killed there!

Right?


......except this "fake gas chamber" exists only in your imagination. Unless you are talking about the reconstruction on the Auschwitz Stammlager, in which case you mind as well stop posting with the discredit you have heaped upon yourself.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:59 am

Monstrous wrote:Monstrous checked!

Actually, that refer only to the two first claimed executions. The report then states that "the following operations were carried out in collaboration with Lithuanian partisans". Thus, equal blame for Germans and Lithuanians, making them equal to the Nazis, perfect for discrediting Lithuanian nationalism.

But the number of Germans is ridiculously small, so most killings must have been done by the Lithuanians, making them worse than the Nazis!


The report basically delegates the Lithuanians to a secondary role, with much more attention being given to the actions of Jaeger himself and Hamnann to name a few.

If the Soviets wanted to discredit Lithuanian nationalism, they would have made use of much more obvious polemical propaganda. And they would have done it in the period from 1946-49, when the Forrest Brothers (Lithuanian partisans) were at their zenith and controlled vast swaths of rural Lithuania. By 1958 the threat had all but disappeared. From a historical and chronological point of view your theory makes no sense at all.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:34 pm

I might have missed it in all the excitement about another potential Brayard discussion . . . but did Mary reply to the many posts pointing out her errors and unerring stupidity? And did Monstrous ever explain to Make This Thread Great Again and tell us, by replying to what's been posted (e.g., by giving us place names, numbers, dates, etc), how Bormann's circular supposedly proves there was no mass murder of Jews?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I might have missed it in all the excitement about another potential Brayard discussion . . . but did Mary reply to the many posts pointing out her errors and unerring stupidity? And did Monstrous ever explain to Make This Thread Great Again and tell us, by replying to what's been posted (e.g., by giving us place names, numbers, dates, etc), how Bormann's circular supposedly proves there was no mass murder of Jews?


Nope, looks like it was a fly by.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:56 pm

I just checked and I can't find Stat Mech's answers to any of the questions he's been asked. I wonder if he forgot or if he is dodging?
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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:59 pm

What questions are those? I thought I'd answered them. However, if you'd like to list out questions you, David, and Monstrous have avoided . . . {!#%@} it, not enough time to type them up.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:45 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I just checked and I can't find Stat Mech's answers to any of the questions he's been asked. I wonder if he forgot or if he is dodging?


:D

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I just checked and I can't find Stat Mech's answers to any of the questions he's been asked. I wonder if he forgot or if he is dodging?


:lol:

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I just checked and I can't find Stat Mech's answers to any of the questions he's been asked. I wonder if he forgot or if he is dodging?


:rotfl:

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:08 am

Mary Q Contrary, the lying holocaust denier wrote:I just checked and I can't find Stat Mech's answers to any of the questions he's been asked. I wonder if he forgot or if he is dodging?


So you have "checked" these have you? In that case you can quickly post links to each of these outstanding questions.

Unless, as per usual, you are lying through your teeth.
:lol:

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Monstrous had an epiphany!

You hear it first!

So, the Holohoax in the German camps had been debunked by around 1960. To counter this, there were soon the Eichmann trial and the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials! So now, the epiphany!:

The Jaeger report was released by the Soviet propaganda machine at this time! It is part of the same conspiracy!

Thoughts???

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:49 pm

My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:33 pm

Monstrous wrote:Monstrous had an epiphany!

You hear it first!

So, the Holohoax in the German camps had been debunked by around 1960. To counter this, there were soon the Eichmann trial and the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials! So now, the epiphany!:

The Jaeger report was released by the Soviet propaganda machine at this time! It is part of the same conspiracy!

Thoughts???

:hmm:

I think you have to take that up with Joe Rizoli, who practically proved there was no such thing as a Holohoax whatsoever prior to the late seventies... why, not even Hogan's Heroes mentioned any of it! :scratch:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?

What more is there to discuss? Nobody has advanced a reasonable explanation for why this Borman memo exists given the standard history so it is an anomaly. One of those strange things that the ewow Nazis did that defies all logic and rationale. Believers deal with it by ignoring it. Revisionists see that it is not an anomaly but that it fits perfectly in the non-extermination thesis. Time to move on....
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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:01 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?

What more is there to discuss? Nobody has advanced a reasonable explanation for why this Borman memo exists given the standard history so it is an anomaly.

I have. It's not anomalous in the least.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:One of those strange things that the ewow Nazis did that defies all logic and rationale. Believers deal with it by ignoring it. Revisionists see that it is not an anomaly but that it fits perfectly in the non-extermination thesis. Time to move on....

Your spellcheck needs fixing: what's "ewow"? I've explained in this and other threads that the circular is not an anomaly and that it, er, fits perfectly with other evidence for the Holocaust. In fact, it suggests the party reacting to word of mass murder of the Jews getting around. But, fine, ignore what has been posted, who gives a {!#%@} what you reply anyway? It's basically recycled crap.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:32 pm

Monstrous wrote:Monstrous had an epiphany!

You hear it first!

So, the Holohoax in the German camps had been debunked by around 1960. To counter this, there were soon the Eichmann trial and the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials! So now, the epiphany!:

The Jaeger report was released by the Soviet propaganda machine at this time! It is part of the same conspiracy!

Thoughts???


I........I have no words.......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?


This latest post has prompted me to move Monstrous to the number one spot on my list of dumbest deniers, a position for which he is now tied with Joe Rizoli.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:35 pm

He really is stunningly absurd.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:36 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?


This latest post has prompted me to move Monstrous to the number one spot on my list of dumbest deniers, a position for which he is now tied with Joe Rizoli.

What does that make Mary? She is a pom-pom girl for your dumbest denier ever!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:49 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?

What more is there to discuss? Nobody has advanced a reasonable explanation for why this Borman memo exists given the standard history so it is an anomaly.

I have. It's not anomalous in the least.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:One of those strange things that the ewow Nazis did that defies all logic and rationale. Believers deal with it by ignoring it. Revisionists see that it is not an anomaly but that it fits perfectly in the non-extermination thesis. Time to move on....

Your spellcheck needs fixing: what's "ewow"? I've explained in this and other threads that the circular is not an anomaly and that it, er, fits perfectly with other evidence for the Holocaust. In fact, it suggests the party reacting to word of mass murder of the Jews getting around. But, fine, ignore what has been posted, who gives a {!#%@} what you reply anyway? It's basically recycled crap.
Besides the fact that you've provided no evidence that word of mass murder of the Jews was getting around, no evidence any of the nazi bigwigs were aware that word was getting around, no evidence that anybody was worried about the word getting around, and no evidence of any attempt at a coverup, your explanation that this memo is part of a disinformation campaign is, er, stupid.
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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:54 am

Mary Q Rizoli wrote:stupid


:D

:P

:lol:

:rotfl:

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:52 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:My thought is that you are one of the biggest {!#%@} idiots I've encountered in a long line of big {!#%@} idiots. Not happy discussing Bormann, are you? So why did you start this moronic thread anyway?

What more is there to discuss? Nobody has advanced a reasonable explanation for why this Borman memo exists given the standard history so it is an anomaly.

I have. It's not anomalous in the least.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:One of those strange things that the ewow Nazis did that defies all logic and rationale. Believers deal with it by ignoring it. Revisionists see that it is not an anomaly but that it fits perfectly in the non-extermination thesis. Time to move on....

Your spellcheck needs fixing: what's "ewow"? I've explained in this and other threads that the circular is not an anomaly and that it, er, fits perfectly with other evidence for the Holocaust. In fact, it suggests the party reacting to word of mass murder of the Jews getting around. But, fine, ignore what has been posted, who gives a {!#%@} what you reply anyway? It's basically recycled crap.
Besides the fact that you've provided no evidence that word of mass murder, er, very of the Jews was getting around

You can say that because you're illiterate. If you weren't illiterate, you'd know that evidence of rumors about the mass murder of Jews, er very strict measures against the Jews, in the East has been posted in this very thread . . . and you've been reminded of this once already. Or maybe you're not illiterate but just dishonest?

See here (repeated when you tried this crap this first time here) and then this from Bormann's circular itself discussed rumors about hard measures against the Jews. Unfortunately, this is a forum for text and links - I cannot read these posts aloud and make sure you heard them. But I did make them, giving examples of rumors of anti-Jewish measures in the East circulating, much as you like pretending I didn't.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:no evidence any of the nazi bigwigs were aware that word was getting around

Lordy you are dumb. Again, some of this being from one of the three links above, here is what Bormann, a Nazi bigwig, wrote to other Nazis in the very circular we're discussing:
In the course of the work on the final solution of the Jewish problem, discussions about "very strict measures" against the Jews, especially in the Eastern territories, have lately been taking place within the population of the various areas of the Reich. Investigations showed that such discussions - mostly in a distorted and exaggerated form - were passed on by soldiers on leave from various units committed in the East, who had the opportunity to eye-witness these measures. It is conceivable that not all "Blood Germans" are capable of demonstrating sufficient understanding for the necessity of such measures, especially not those parts of the population which do not have the opportunity of visualizing bolshevist atrocities on the basis of their own observations. In order to be able 'to counteract any formation of rumors in this connection, which frequently are of an intentional, prejudiced character, the following statements are issued for information about the present state of affairs . . .

I've boldfaced parts of this that directly discuss the rumors. I thought that might help overcome your reading and comprehension difficulties. Probably not but worth a try, eh.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:no evidence that anybody was worried about the word getting around

Evidence that "word" had already gotten around and worry amongst Nazi leaders about that - see above.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:and no evidence of any attempt at a coverup, your explanation that this memo is part of a disinformation campaign is, er, stupid.

Bormann's circular, as he himself explained it, aimed to set out talking points to "counteract" the rumors which he mentioned and which the leadership wanted to "correct." Bormann noted that the rumors were based on eyewitness accounts of what was happening in the East and that such reports had been reaching Germans. Bormann characterized the rumors as involving (scare quote) very strict measures (end scare quote) against the Jews in the East. That's the point of his circular, as he himself explained, in the circular. To combat rumors.

The circular doesn't disprove that mass murder was occurring. It gives talking points for Nazis to combat rumors. It is perfectly compatible with what historians know about the Holocaust.

FYI the reason that Monstrous has shifted to other topics is that his OP claim is empty and he can't support it any more than you can. You seem not to have gotten the message: "Jäger letter! Jäger letter!"

Btw where's that list of questions you say I ignored? You were asked to link to the questions.

Do keep 'em coming, Mary. They are declining in quality and you just keep making things worse for your scumbags.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:38 pm

NOT FOR MARY OR MONSTROUS AS IT WILL ONLY CONFUSE THEM - here is PS-3244 "the Bormann circular" for readers with an actual interest in these things.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817


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