Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Balsamo » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:43 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?


or Korherr SAID he believed the Jews were settled in Dublin... not the same...
Anyway, i leave the creature to you...

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:02 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?


or Korherr SAID he believed the Jews were settled in Dublin... not the same...
Anyway, i leave the creature to you...


Yes, one those infamous functionaries who saw nothing, heard nothing and knew nothing.

This worked surprisingly well in both East and West Germany.

Korherr said that he called and this is what he was told.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:00 am

Monstrous wrote:
NathanC wrote:He also missed the point: the Soviets hid most of the evidence they captured in their archives and they weren't accessible until the early 90s after the collapse of the Iron Curtain. That's the point I was trying to make, and it sailed right over his completely empty head.

So why cannot you quote any such massive amount supposedly buried in the archives? The Jaeger report is obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy. But even if it was not, why would the Soviets publish it if it was supposedly against their own interest?
.


This is getting tedious. The Soviets buried the great synagogue in Vilnus when they recaptured Lithuania. They cracked down on attempts by Jewish groups to memorialize the Babi Yar massacre. They did not manufacture the Jaeger report, as it contradicted their interest. It did not fit the pattern of "forgery" in the case of Katyn. It's not any kind of "ploy".

{!#%@} deal with it.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:05 pm

NathanC wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
NathanC wrote:He also missed the point: the Soviets hid most of the evidence they captured in their archives and they weren't accessible until the early 90s after the collapse of the Iron Curtain. That's the point I was trying to make, and it sailed right over his completely empty head.

So why cannot you quote any such massive amount supposedly buried in the archives? The Jaeger report is obviously an anti-Lithuanian ploy. But even if it was not, why would the Soviets publish it if it was supposedly against their own interest?
.


This is getting tedious.

Boring, tedious, a waste of good bytes. Full stop.

NathanC wrote:{!#%@} deal with it.

He won't, of course, because doing so would {!#%@} with his cherished beliefs.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:24 pm

Monstrous wrote:See this on the supposedly so "trustworthy" Soviets fabricating evidence of atrocities against Jews in order to discredit anti-Communist opposition:
http://www.iwp.edu/news_publications/de ... s-and-jews

No reply by the collective Believer hive mind.

Yet another Monstrous victory!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:27 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:29 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:29 pm

What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:32 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Back to Bormann, where did Monstrous say the Jews were deported to, now that he's decided to back off ghettos in Poland as one destination? Did he ever name any places or provide any evidence for large numbers of Jews having been transported to them?

Monstrous already linked to a map showing some of the 40,000+ camps/ghettos.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:33 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.



Proof of these settlements.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:33 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

False. I've linked you to posts explaining the Bormann circular, in the light of other evidence about the east (from Katzmann) - and, speaking of dodges, requested you tell us where in the east Bormann meant and provide evidence for Jews being sent there.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:35 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Back to Bormann, where did Monstrous say the Jews were deported to, now that he's decided to back off ghettos in Poland as one destination? Did he ever name any places or provide any evidence for large numbers of Jews having been transported to them?

Monstrous already linked to a map showing some of the 40,000+ camps/ghettos.

KLs were not for Jews only, or even mainly. I already pointed out that the majority of the ghettos you referred us to were in Poland - so I asked you questions about timing (when were these ghettos in existence) and specific questions about where the Jews were sent, and your evidence for that. A map, without such details, of places answers nothing. Sorry.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:37 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.



Proof of these settlements.

Various statements on Jews being sent to Russia and the impossibility of the official claims regarding the AR camps meaning the Jews must have continued on eastwards. See the Holocaust Handbooks on the AR camps by MGK.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:38 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Back to Bormann, where did Monstrous say the Jews were deported to, now that he's decided to back off ghettos in Poland as one destination? Did he ever name any places or provide any evidence for large numbers of Jews having been transported to them?

Monstrous already linked to a map showing some of the 40,000+ camps/ghettos.


As explained, that map shows every single camp ever found opened by the Nazis. This includes POW camps, work camps, satellite camps, ghettos, main camps, death camps and I think even brothels. Most of those were in Poland and AS EXPLAINED, the Nazis emptied those ghettos from 1942-1944.
A lot of those camps held non-Jews.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:38 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.

There's a song about this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAf4Uq9mrs

This song is about as useful in understanding Monstrous's claims as Monstrous's explanations.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:39 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.



Proof of these settlements.

Various statements on Jews being sent to Russia and the impossibility of the official claims regarding the AR camps meaning the Jews must have continued on eastwards. See the Holocaust Handbooks on the AR camps by MGK.

Summarize these statements - the most important ones - for us. If you don't, we will conclude that you're a liar.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:40 pm

Monstrous wrote:... and the impossibility of the official claims regarding the AR camps ...

There's nothing impossible about the Einsatz Reinhard camps - the only impossibility here is that the Jews were transported further eastward during 1942-1944.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:42 pm

NathanC wrote:What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

NathanC seems unaware of that the Soviet policy on Jews changed over time. Increasingly anti-Semitic during Stalin's last years, then less so. Regardless, even under Stalin, at no time did the Communists "deny" the claim that Jews genocided such as by objecting to the verdicts of the Nuremberg trial.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:47 pm

More Monstrous proof of Jewish resettlement to Russia - explain this popular Jewish song if Jews weren't taken there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVFuTIGUhTk
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:48 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

False. I've linked you to posts explaining the Bormann circular, in the light of other evidence about the east (from Katzmann) - and, speaking of dodges, requested you tell us where in the east Bormann meant and provide evidence for Jews being sent there.

Monstrous checked.

SM has in fact not explained why Bormann is contradicting Hitler's public confession.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:48 pm

Monstrous wrote:
NathanC wrote:What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

NathanC seems unaware of that the Soviet policy on Jews changed over time. Increasingly anti-Semitic during Stalin's last years, then less so. Regardless, even under Stalin, at no time did the Communists "deny" the claim that Jews genocided such as by objecting to the verdicts of the Nuremberg trial.

Irrelevant. I made a long post above showing suppression of the Jewish identity of the Nazis' victims in the USSR during and immediately after the war.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:51 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

False. I've linked you to posts explaining the Bormann circular, in the light of other evidence about the east (from Katzmann) - and, speaking of dodges, requested you tell us where in the east Bormann meant and provide evidence for Jews being sent there.

Monstrous checked.

SM has in fact not explained why Bormann is contradicting Hitler's public confession.

You can type whatever you wish. But you're a dishonest {!#%@}. I told you that Bormann's circular was "the propaganda explanation" for party members and the rationale they were to use, "transported still farther to the East," was not possible in reality. {!#%@} deal with it but do not lie about it.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:53 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
NathanC wrote:What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

NathanC seems unaware of that the Soviet policy on Jews changed over time. Increasingly anti-Semitic during Stalin's last years, then less so. Regardless, even under Stalin, at no time did the Communists "deny" the claim that Jews genocided such as by objecting to the verdicts of the Nuremberg trial.

Irrelevant. I made a long post above showing suppression of the Jewish identity of the Nazis' victims in the USSR during and immediately after the war.


And >I< also pointed out the Soviet Authorities' suppression of the Black Book of Russian Jewry, which pretty much constitutes denial no matter how Monstrous dodges it.

I'm starting to think that Monstrous is going the way of the Maryzilla and is just trolling us right now. I've put him on ignore.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:More Monstrous proof of Jewish resettlement to Russia - explain this popular Jewish song if Jews weren't taken there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVFuTIGUhTk


The Beatles were Jewish? Wow: I'm a huge fan and I only discovered this right now. Thanks for pointing it out :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Lennon" sort of sounds like a Jewish name, but I never knew that "McCartney", "Harrison" and "Starr" were too.Everything makes sense now!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:02 pm

NathanC wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
NathanC wrote:What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

NathanC seems unaware of that the Soviet policy on Jews changed over time. Increasingly anti-Semitic during Stalin's last years, then less so. Regardless, even under Stalin, at no time did the Communists "deny" the claim that Jews genocided such as by objecting to the verdicts of the Nuremberg trial.

Irrelevant. I made a long post above showing suppression of the Jewish identity of the Nazis' victims in the USSR during and immediately after the war.


And >I< also pointed out the Soviet Authorities' suppression of the Black Book of Russian Jewry, which pretty much constitutes denial no matter how Monstrous dodges it.

I'm starting to think that Monstrous is going the way of the Maryzilla and is just trolling us right now. I've put him on ignore.

Downplaying the Jews in order to upgrade the Slavs as victims is not the same thing as "denying". No evidence of "denying" has been presented.

Just look at what the Communists forced Höss to write in his memoirs on Jews:
http://codoh.com/library/document/499/
http://codoh.com/library/document/3030/

No Communist Holocaust denial here!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Monstrous » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:04 pm

"Specifically, Meyer notes, Broszat deleted from Höss’ “memoir” statements about millions of non-existent Jews who were scheduled for extermination, including “about four million Jews from Romania,” as well as “an estimated two and a half million Jews from Bulgaria.” In fact, Meyer writes, in 1940 there were only about 342,000 Jews in Romania altogether, and the total number of Jews in Bulgaria, according to more or less reliable estimates, was between 48,000 and some 63,000. Höss had exaggerated the actual number of Jews in Romania by more than ten times, and in Bulgaria by about 50 times."
http://codoh.com/library/document/3030/

Again, this is what the Communists forced Höss to write. No Communist Holocaust denial!

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:06 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Korherr believed the Jews settled in Lublin.

Monstrous, thoughts?

Monstrous does not think so. They were settled here and there. Including in Russia.



Proof of these settlements.

Various statements on Jews being sent to Russia and the impossibility of the official claims regarding the AR camps meaning the Jews must have continued on eastwards. See the Holocaust Handbooks on the AR camps by MGK.


I'd rather spend a quiet hour on the rack with Taylor Swift's "Shake It Off" blaring on a loop than read any of the dreck put out by MGK.

Monstrous, think about this.

For some reason you and other deniers think that all of this was occurring in some sort of splendid isolation, with the Germans building camps in the Soviet Union and then transporting Jews in to fill them.

It was not.

At the same time you and the others allege this massive deportation was occurring, the Germans and Soviets were busy slaughtering one another in a slog fest that made WW I look like a friendly game of poker. 3 out of 4 German dead soldiers died on the Eastern Front and up to 27 million Soviet citizens died of all causes during the war.

The Germans never pacified Soviet territory to the extent required to transport large numbers of Jews, including women, children and the elderly, into some sort of ghetto/camp system. The Germans created artificial famine by their soldiers living off the land and shipping whatever was left back to Germany. There was a vicious partisan war going on even in areas the Germans conquered, 1 in 4 Belorussians died through either German reprisal actions or the partisans killing collaborators.

The Germans faced massive transportation problems, so much so that the military forbade any non-military transports at various points during 1942-1943. Operation Blue and the subsequent Battle of Stalingrad consumed enormormous amounts of German resources during that time. The Germans consumed even more resources building up for the Battle of Kursk and the subsequent battles trying to hold the Red Army back from Eastern Europe and Germany.

This denier theory needs to fit into this reality, not some made up world created by deniers.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:11 pm

RE: the Jewish character of The Beatles: John changed his name from the original Lenin, to disguise his relation to a notorious Russian Jew. Starr, well, come on, he was born Moshe Starker. McCartney's mom - this is indeed not well known - Miriam Litvinov - married James McCarthy and changed her name to Mary. George H was more or less a fellow traveler.

In all candor, best I can figure out from his posts, Monstrous doesn't even know the purpose or circumstances for Bormann's circular (PS-3244). I explained this in the posts I linked to, the ones which Mary decided to dismiss without reading and about which Mary surmised Monstrous had decided against reading. So to reiterate, here's how Jon Harrison described the context, in a post at HC, "On October 9, 1942, Bormann sent this circular in response to eyewitness accounts of atrocities, which were reaching German public opinion via letters and verbal communications from soldiers in the East." Bormann's circular itself stated the propaganda goals of the talking points:
It is conceivable that not all "Blood Germans" are capable of demonstrating sufficient understanding for the necessity of such measures, especially not those parts of the population which do not have the opportunity of visualizing bolshevist atrocities on the basis of their own observations. In order to be able 'to counteract any formation of rumors in this connection, which frequently ark of an intentional, prejudiced character, the following statements are issued for information about the present state of affairs.

This is what Monstrous has dodged and lied about the entire thread, mischaracterizing my arguments again and again.

Now instead of an explanation of his nonsensical OP, Monstrous shifts gears and falls back on the "the Commies forced Höss" canard. Pretending that this silly charge hasn't been discussed ad nauseam.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:31 pm

Another irony about Bormann's circular is how it was explained at the IMT.
In October, 1942, Bormann's decree ordering the extermination of Jewry was issued (Document PS-3244). It has been established beyond all question that this order came from Hitler and went to Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler, who was charged with the actual extermination of the Jews.

This, too, has been pointed out previously in this forum, I believe in the discussion of Streicher's case before the IMT in the "Je Suis Rudolf, Mattogno" et al thread.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:32 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:RE: the Jewish character of The Beatles: John changed his name from the original Lenin, to disguise his relation to a notorious Russian Jew. Starr, well, come on, he was born Moshe Starker. McCartney's mom - this is indeed not well known - Miriam Litvinov - married James McCarthy and changed her name to Mary. George H was more or less a fellow traveler.


Everything is clear now. No wonder they were so world famous. :o :o :o
Oh dear, is there any connection between George H and HC blogger Dr. Harrison? The plot thickens...

Now instead of an explanation of his nonsensical OP, Monstrous shifts gears and falls back on the "the Commies forced Höss" canard. Pretending that this silly charge hasn't been discussed ad nauseam.


Yeah, that's nonsense too. As previously mentioned, Hoss gave a lower figure than the ones presented by the Soviets at the IMT. And in Polish captivity, he insisted on his 1M number. This really is old.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:36 pm

NathanC wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:RE: the Jewish character of The Beatles: John changed his name from the original Lenin, to disguise his relation to a notorious Russian Jew. Starr, well, come on, he was born Moshe Starker. McCartney's mom - this is indeed not well known - Miriam Litvinov - married James McCarthy and changed her name to Mary. George H was more or less a fellow traveler.


Everything is clear now. No wonder they were so world famous. :o :o :o

You could say as part of a global or international phenomenon.

NathanC wrote:Oh dear, is there any connection between George H and HC blogger Dr. Harrison? The plot thickens...

Very nicely observed. I'd never imagined such a connection. That makes HC a mere pawn in a vast international game, I think. I will ferret out the truth about Dr "Harrison" if it is the last thing I do.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This denier theory needs to fit into this reality, not some made up world created by deniers.


Yep. Just as the "resettlement" narrative needs to fit in to the actual wartime situation at the Eastern Front, the "hoax" narrative needs to fit in to the actual post-war policies carried out on either side of the Iron Curtain. That is, leniency and cooperation between Former Nazis and the Western Powers, and Denial by the Soviet Union. They can't do it, because they have a "tunnel vision" towards the Holocaust and are unable to grasp the context surrounding it. Because they're idiots and Jew haters.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:40 pm

I hate to mention the name of The Beatles' manager. I won't. But you see the point. Right? If you don't, Monstrous will clarify everything.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:54 pm

NathanC wrote:Everything is clear now. No wonder they were so world famous. :o :o :o


It is about time, sad goyim, that you are now seeing the hidden wire pullers....:nuts:
:lol:

NathanC wrote:Oh dear, is there any connection between George H and HC blogger Dr. Harrison? The plot thickens...


Who do you think wrote "While My Guitar Gently Weeps?"
Do you not see who pulls the wires of the wires that are pulled and then pulled again by other wire pullers?
Then yet AGAIN those wires are pulled by other hidden wire pullers??

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:09 pm

NathanC wrote:the "hoax" narrative needs to fit in to the actual post-war policies carried out on either side of the Iron Curtain. That is, leniency and cooperation between Former Nazis and the Western Powers, and Denial by the Soviet Union. They can't do it, because they have a "tunnel vision" towards the Holocaust and are unable to grasp the context surrounding it. Because they're idiots and Jew haters.


Both sides were quite happy to cultivate former Nazis, even the Soviets, because of the strategic importance of East/West Germany. The Soviets stopped persecuting former Nazis as long as they showed the proper "enthusiasm" for the "Worker's Paradise" the Soviets tried to construct. The Soviets still needed the doctors, teachers, scientists and bureaucrats to make East Germany work so they compromised and made peace.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:22 pm

Bottom line: if Monstrous can't even name the documents or identify the other evidence he claims the Soviets fabricated - and then show - using standard methods and evidence - what the Soviets are alleged to have done, how and when they did what is claimed, and how they managed the supposed fabricated evidence, the rest of this discussion is interesting but totally unhelpful, no matter what's said, to Monstrous' cause.

Take the counter-factual that the Soviets had an interest in, and even history, of tarting up the destruction of the Jews. Still, to convince anyone that this interest led to fabrication of documents, you have to show the documents, explain in what ways they were doctored, demonstrate when and how the doctoring occurred, etc. And provide evidence for all this. This is precisely what Monstrous fails to come forward on, over and over, instead telling us what he imagines could have happened, what he thinks may have be done in irrelevant instances, what he assumes should have taken place.

Monstrous's argument is at core a case of empty paranoia and careless insinuation.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby NathanC » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:44 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
NathanC wrote:the "hoax" narrative needs to fit in to the actual post-war policies carried out on either side of the Iron Curtain. That is, leniency and cooperation between Former Nazis and the Western Powers, and Denial by the Soviet Union. They can't do it, because they have a "tunnel vision" towards the Holocaust and are unable to grasp the context surrounding it. Because they're idiots and Jew haters.


Both sides were quite happy to cultivate former Nazis, even the Soviets, because of the strategic importance of East/West Germany. The Soviets stopped persecuting former Nazis as long as they showed the proper "enthusiasm" for the "Worker's Paradise" the Soviets tried to construct. The Soviets still needed the doctors, teachers, scientists and bureaucrats to make East Germany work so they compromised and made peace.


Yeah. In addition to "Do not Divide the Dead", I recall that David Shneer mentioned that the Soviets also wanted to re-integrate East Germany into the Soviet system, which also resulted in them glossing over past German crimes and instead describing them as "fascist" crimes.

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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:30 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:But the Believers state that Hitler had confessed the Holocaust in his public speeches!

Why then would Bormann deny this?


Bormann's memo was a change of tone and resort to absolute secrecy. The German public was becoming increasingly aware of what was going on, soldiers would write to their families about it, Hans-Joachim Marsaille, the famed Luftwaffe pilot, overheard SS officers discussing it at a party in Berlin and informed his squadron mates. It was apparently common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers. Bormann's circular was an effort to clamp down on the rumor mill.

Thus did not prevent Hitler from acknowledging it in private to Horthy in 1943.

Dodging!

No Believer reply to why Bormann is a denier, when considering that the Believer believe that Hitler had already confessed the Holocaust to the whole world in his public speeches!

Dodging? Yes. But also just making up {!#%@} as he goes along. Any examples of soldiers writing home to their families about it? No, of course not! It was apparantly common knowledge among Reichsbahn workers? Is there any evidence of this? No, of course not! Since Hitler had publicly announced the Holocaust in public (according to the believers) and everybody is talking and writing to everybody else about it (according to Jeff_36), why would Bormann think a memo would have any effect on "the rumor mill"? Silly believers are just silly.
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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:32 pm

NathanC wrote:What Monstrous doesn't get is if it was some kind of "ploy", then the report would've been doctored to say "peaceful soviet citizens", just like the soviet extraordinary comission reports for the Babi Yar massacre were. It's really that simple: it doesn't fit into the pattern of actual soviet forgeries, and contradicts the narrative the Soviets wanted to sell, which makes it 100% genuine.

Please describe the "pattern of actual soviet forgeries" so we can all recognize them or is this just another example of making it up as you go along?
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Re: Bormann, monstrous Holocaust denier

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:07 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:. . . But also just making up {!#%@} as he goes along. Any examples of soldiers writing home to their families about it? No, of course not! . . . why would Bormann think a memo would have any effect on "the rumor mill"? Silly believers are just silly.

You mean other than evidence from Bormann's circular itself?
In the course of the work on the final solution of the Jewish problem, discussions about "very strict measures" against the Jews, especially in the Eastern territories, have lately been taking place within the population of the various areas of the Reich. Investigations showed that such discussions-mostly in a distorted and exaggerated form-were passed on by soldiers on leave from various units committed in the East, who had the opportunity to eye-witness these measures.

We've already in various thread discussed other evidence for rumors of the shootings spreading amongst Germans. You might want to google "Täubner." Or Kretschmer letters. No rumors? Have you read the SD and other secret reports on public opinion in Germany collected by Kulka & Jäckel (some examples here and here?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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