So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

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So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:36 pm

So, after another fruitless attempt to have a Holocaust denier prove the Holocaust was in fact, a hoax, I started thinking about how you could pull something like this off.

The magnitude of trying something like this surprised me.

You see, most Holocaust deniers look at bits and pieces, not at the whole. They basically disregard any other victims and focus solely on Jews. Our favorite Holocaust denier, Jim Rizoli, does not know anything about the T-4 Program, Operation Tannenberg, the deliberate neglect of the Soviet POWs that led to 2 million Soviet POWs dying between June 1941 to the Spring of 1942 (I'd like to make a small qualification, some of the POWs were murdered in concentration camps like Mauthaussen) or Action 14f13. Now I think Jim is an outlier, people like David Irving or Mattogono and Graf will know what those things were, they simply do not discuss them to any large degree.

So, what I've found is a rather narrow focus on Jews plus the very specific targeting of certain aspects of the Holocaust. For example, gas chambers are particularly targeted. Over the decades deniers took swipes at the Kremas at Birkenau and the gas chambers of Action Reinhard. Recent attempts also include the gas vans. The key to all of this is to muddy the waters sufficiently so that they themselves don't actually have to prove anything, it is enough to cast doubt on the existence of the gas chambers. Our Monstrous took a swipe at the Einsatzgruppen, this failed but, again, the key is to muddy the waters without having to prove anything. It's easy to cry "forgery" and overstate the fact that much of the documentation came from the Soviets (never mind the fact that these documents are corroborated by Western/German sources and that the one major attempt the Soviets made to fake Katyn ended in abject failure).

So, I came back to my original thought. How could something like the Holocaust be faked?

Well, first of all you needed the compliance and agreement of the major powers of the Second World War, the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union. Not only that you needed the compliance of secondary powers like France and Poland. Poland is particularly important because the deportations of the Jews there was hardly a secret. This agreement needed to be iron clad to the point it could survive any shifts in the political landscape.

Next, you needed to fake thousands of documents with corresponding copies available on both sides of the Iron Curtain. This also included making or altering records of both civilian and military authorities so that they matched and corroborated each other. This meant that any original German documents contradicting these fakes needed to be tracked down and destroyed or altered in their turn to avoid future historians from discovering the truth.

Next, all the parties needed to find hundreds of thousands of witnesses that could be intimidated or persuaded to go along with this, along with surviving victims and perpetrators. This also included destroying or altering buildings to match this narrative, along with blueprints of these buildings.

All of this needed to be started before the end of war and completed by the beginning of any court hearings (keep in mind that the decision to try the Nazi leaders came very late in the game, there was disagreement over this between the allies).

You also needed the agreement of all the parties to hide the missing Jews in such a way they could never be accounted for.

Finally, this needed to be done in such that there could never be any leaks.

Ever. No tell-all memoirs, no press releases from disgruntled ex-spies or secretaries, no ex-Nazis safely living in South America announcing to the world the reality of the hoax, no POWs released from the USSR telling his family about the Jews in the USSR on his deathbed, etc.

So, I hope our resident "revisionists" will come out of the shadows, take a look at this and tell me how all of this was possible.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:06 pm

Well, of course it wasn't. One would not only have to change what you listed, but most of history.


Our favorite Holocaust denier, Jim Rizoli, does not know anything about the T-4 Program, Operation Tannenberg, the deliberate neglect of the Soviet POWs that led to 2 million Soviet POWs dying between June 1941 to the Spring of 1942 (I'd like to make a small qualification, some of the POWs were murdered in concentration camps like Mauthaussen) or Action 14f13...

Not only that, he doesn't know anything about WWII history (or any history) he hasn't taken from fellow nutbars. Meaning, he knows not a darn thing.
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:18 pm

This is what comes from getting all of your information only from "revisionist" sources.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby nickterry » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:45 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is what comes from getting all of your information only from "revisionist" sources.


and then not remembering them correctly...

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:02 pm

nickterry wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is what comes from getting all of your information only from "revisionist" sources.


and then not remembering them correctly...

after the processing already wasn't quite so successful...
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:06 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
nickterry wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This is what comes from getting all of your information only from "revisionist" sources.


and then not remembering them correctly...

after the processing already wasn't quite so successful...


I think the machinery to process the information was flawed to start with.

:D

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:11 pm

I think I'd agree. :lol:
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:00 pm

>> So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

It doesn't. In two words.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:01 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:>> So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

It doesn't. In two words.



Oh, I know. I'm trying to get our resident deniers to come play.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:03 am

LOL I am just being an ass. As you know, I think the question is a really good one . . . I would like to hear from them, actually.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:06 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL I am just being an ass. As you know, I think the question is a really good one . . . I would like to hear from them, actually.


Oh, your answer is spot on. It can't work.

I want Monstrous or David or Mary Q to explain this.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:07 am

Or invite from an even larger audience. :wave:
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:47 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Or invite from an even larger audience. :wave:


Hey, the more the merrier!!!!


But, I do want to hear from them.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby NathanC » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:42 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Well, first of all you needed the compliance and agreement of the major powers of the Second World War, the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union. Not only that you needed the compliance of secondary powers like France and Poland. Poland is particularly important because the deportations of the Jews there was hardly a secret. This agreement needed to be iron clad to the point it could survive any shifts in the political landscape.


The "Hoax" narrative falls apart once you take a look at the actual policies pursued by the Major Powers after the war. The West Hired Former Nazis and buried their crimes under the rug, and the Soviet Union persecuted the Jews and buried the anti Jewish nature of Nazi Massacres. In other words, the complete opposite of the "Hoaxing" that deniers allege. That's why Zundel's acolytes lie about how his trial was "the first one where witnesses were cross examined": they want to distract not only from the fact that German courts had been cross examining witnesses since the late fifties, but that the courts were lenient on ex-Nazis and even abused Jewish witnesses in court.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:17 am

Monstrous became almost a poster child for your point, NathanC, in his Einsatzgruppen thread.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:19 am

NathanC wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Well, first of all you needed the compliance and agreement of the major powers of the Second World War, the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union. Not only that you needed the compliance of secondary powers like France and Poland. Poland is particularly important because the deportations of the Jews there was hardly a secret. This agreement needed to be iron clad to the point it could survive any shifts in the political landscape.


The "Hoax" narrative falls apart once you take a look at the actual policies pursued by the Major Powers after the war. The West Hired Former Nazis and buried their crimes under the rug, and the Soviet Union persecuted the Jews and buried the anti Jewish nature of Nazi Massacres. In other words, the complete opposite of the "Hoaxing" that deniers allege. That's why Zundel's acolytes lie about how his trial was "the first one where witnesses were cross examined": they want to distract not only from the fact that German courts had been cross examining witnesses since the late fifties, but that the courts were lenient on ex-Nazis and even abused Jewish witnesses in court.


For some reason (keep in mind no proof exists) I'm expected to believe that the powers involved in the Cold War would continue to propagate this "hoax" even though they were at each other's throats in Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaya, Africa, South America.........

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:35 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
NathanC wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Well, first of all you needed the compliance and agreement of the major powers of the Second World War, the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union. Not only that you needed the compliance of secondary powers like France and Poland. Poland is particularly important because the deportations of the Jews there was hardly a secret. This agreement needed to be iron clad to the point it could survive any shifts in the political landscape.


The "Hoax" narrative falls apart once you take a look at the actual policies pursued by the Major Powers after the war. The West Hired Former Nazis and buried their crimes under the rug, and the Soviet Union persecuted the Jews and buried the anti Jewish nature of Nazi Massacres. In other words, the complete opposite of the "Hoaxing" that deniers allege. That's why Zundel's acolytes lie about how his trial was "the first one where witnesses were cross examined": they want to distract not only from the fact that German courts had been cross examining witnesses since the late fifties, but that the courts were lenient on ex-Nazis and even abused Jewish witnesses in court.


For some reason (keep in mind no proof exists) I'm expected to believe that the powers involved in the Cold War would continue to propagate this "hoax" even though they were at each other's throats in Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaya, Africa, South America.........

Hell, they couldn't even cooperate on the Nuremberg trials . . . by the time of the NMT, the breach was open.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Tallboy » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:40 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Or invite from an even larger audience. :wave:


Hey, the more the merrier!!!!


But, I do want to hear from them.


This, along with the 'transit camp' theory, i believe are the two biggest arguments against denial, specifically as both of these point out how ridiculous HD is, and one does not need any in depth knowledge to see it. it is obvious to the casual visitor.

Jeff1970-- i doubt, highly, that any denier will take this on here. have you tried posting your OP to the FG blog?

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:49 am

The "hoax" crossed administrations at the end of the war. Two out of three leaders that needed to approve such a thing were gone, FDR died before Germany surrendered and Churchill fell from power before Japan surrendered. So the continuation of the "hoax" relied on Harry Truman and Clement Attlee. I don't know much about Attlee but Truman was nothing like FDR. FDR was devious and could be under-handed, Truman was blunt and honest. I have a hard time believing Truman would agree to this. Truman authorized Operation Paperclip but insisted that none of the scientists be Nazi Party members. Much of this happened behind his back with the JIOA falsifying records to get the Nazi scientists to the US.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:51 am

Tallboy wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Or invite from an even larger audience. :wave:


Hey, the more the merrier!!!!


But, I do want to hear from them.


This, along with the 'transit camp' theory, i believe are the two biggest arguments against denial, specifically as both of these point out how ridiculous HD is, and one does not need any in depth knowledge to see it. it is obvious to the casual visitor.

Jeff1970-- i doubt, highly, that any denier will take this on here. have you tried posting your OP to the FG blog?


I did just post this to ISF.

Interesting idea about FG's blog. I may do that.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:52 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:You also needed the agreement of all the parties to hide the missing Jews in such a way they could never be accounted for.

Biggest witness protection program evar - that's where all the reparation money (and more) went.

Didja read that, Rizolis? Your parents were in on it too. Oy vey, it was hard, but they changed their identities quite nicely, didn't they. :mrgreen:
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Tallboy » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:14 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Or invite from an even larger audience. :wave:


Hey, the more the merrier!!!!


But, I do want to hear from them.


This, along with the 'transit camp' theory, i believe are the two biggest arguments against denial, specifically as both of these point out how ridiculous HD is, and one does not need any in depth knowledge to see it. it is obvious to the casual visitor.

Jeff1970-- i doubt, highly, that any denier will take this on here. have you tried posting your OP to the FG blog?


I did just post this to ISF.

Interesting idea about FG's blog. I may do that.


only way i can see that would offer the remotest chance a denier would respond.
good topic

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:19 am

Thank you.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:45 pm

Here ya go, Jeffk, in an attempt to ridicule the necessity and secrecy surrounding the reported shooting of the Majdanek SKs by SS, "HDenier" explains how a hoax is being hoaxed:

HDenier wrote:Great now we have "secret intelligence" telling us about another "secret shooting" that we can all assume was done because the holohoaxers said it was done, without proof why it was done...hmmmm ok...lol...next...how about this:

Your ASSUMPTIONS are complete nonsense....these people shot belonged to families that had people who knew them so that mean's they would have to be shot and then people that knew them, they would have to be shot to finally the whole camp would have to be shot.......now, I believe that, thanks for the clarity..lol....oh, then the shooters would need to be shot, then their shooters and their shooters, then everybody would be dead, the war would be over...

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11441117

Maybe exchanging "shooting" and "shot" for "finding" and "found" would be a nice little exercise? :mrgreen:
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:08 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Here ya go, Jeffk, in an attempt to ridicule the necessity and secrecy surrounding the reported shooting of the Majdanek SKs by SS, "HDenier" explains how a hoax is being hoaxed:

HDenier wrote:Great now we have "secret intelligence" telling us about another "secret shooting" that we can all assume was done because the holohoaxers said it was done, without proof why it was done...hmmmm ok...lol...next...how about this:

Your ASSUMPTIONS are complete nonsense....these people shot belonged to families that had people who knew them so that mean's they would have to be shot and then people that knew them, they would have to be shot to finally the whole camp would have to be shot.......now, I believe that, thanks for the clarity..lol....oh, then the shooters would need to be shot, then their shooters and their shooters, then everybody would be dead, the war would be over...

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11441117

Maybe exchanging "shooting" and "shot" for "finding" and "found" would be a nice little exercise? :mrgreen:



Naturally H Denier will refuse to acknowledge that the SS wouldn't need to shoot the families of the SK's because they were already dead. Or, in hiding.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:32 pm

Yeah here's how slapped him:
More speculation - unless you will now tell us about the people who were shot and their families and how the Germans cared about the families and what they thought, if they were still alive. Well, in fact, on 3 November 1943, nearly every Jew in the camp was shot . . . so that kind of leaves you in a quandary, doesn't it?

He is a total waste of time.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:30 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Here ya go, Jeffk, in an attempt to ridicule the necessity and secrecy surrounding the reported shooting of the Majdanek SKs by SS, "HDenier" explains how a hoax is being hoaxed:

HDenier wrote:Great now we have "secret intelligence" telling us about another "secret shooting" that we can all assume was done because the holohoaxers said it was done, without proof why it was done...hmmmm ok...lol...next...how about this:

Your ASSUMPTIONS are complete nonsense....these people shot belonged to families that had people who knew them so that mean's they would have to be shot and then people that knew them, they would have to be shot to finally the whole camp would have to be shot.......now, I believe that, thanks for the clarity..lol....oh, then the shooters would need to be shot, then their shooters and their shooters, then everybody would be dead, the war would be over...

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11441117

Maybe exchanging "shooting" and "shot" for "finding" and "found" would be a nice little exercise? :mrgreen:



Naturally H Denier will refuse to acknowledge that the SS wouldn't need to shoot the families of the SK's because they were already dead. Or, in hiding.

Or, if not dead already, because the SKs most likely had no chance in that hell to relate any of their experiences to anyone while they suffered through them...


In his mind, the death slaves who didn't do what is known had been done clocked in and out daily and then went home to their loved ones to tell them all about it... :roll:
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:44 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:In his mind, the death slaves who didn't do what is known had been done clocked in and out daily and then went home to their loved ones to tell them all about it... :roll:

After raping and murdering under the lackadaisical guard provided by the kindly SS . . .
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:59 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:In his mind, the death slaves who didn't do what is known had been done clocked in and out daily and then went home to their loved ones to tell them all about it... :roll:

After raping and murdering under the lackadaisical guard provided by the kindly SS . . .

Good to know that schools better not teach about any soap but rather have instructions in a manner preferred by one who doesn't know what (or where) "Birkenau" is.
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Denying-History » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:01 am

Ha-Ha-Ha! Its amazing what these believers can think up! They HONESTLY believe in Holocaust deniers? Honestly?

Denying-History found this to be evidence against it!


http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Holocaust_denial_denial

Do you honestly think that people could believe NSDAP party didn't have a program stating the Jews should be exterminated???

I think I could really try out this denial thing, I think my post turned out rather accurate? Don't ya think?
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:01 am

he is now pretending not to understand the Jeffk_1970's question LOL
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:05 am

Pretending?
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Denying-History » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:19 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Pretending?

If you saw my original post just ignore that. I believe is talking about the post which I was mocking. Click on "accurate" and follow the trail between Jeff and Monsterous.
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:38 am

:hmm: Not sure. I thought it pertained simply to HDenier at ISF? At least, that's what my response was about. :pardon:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:43 am

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: Not sure. I thought it pertained simply to HDenier at ISF? At least, that's what my response was about. :pardon:

yeah I posted about HDenier . . . he knows what Jeffk asked and is trying to stall and obfuscate . . .
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:44 am

All right, so this just went up at FG's blog:

Jeff K. on August 14, 2016 at 6:41 pm
So, I posted this over at the Skeptics Forum yesterday in hopes of getting one of the resident deniers there to answer me:

“So, after another fruitless attempt to have a Holocaust denier prove the Holocaust was in fact, a hoax, I started thinking about how you could pull something like this off.

The magnitude of trying something like this surprised me.

You see, most Holocaust deniers look at bits and pieces, not at the whole. They basically disregard any other victims and focus solely on Jews. Our favorite Holocaust denier, Jim Rizoli, does not know anything about the T-4 Program, Operation Tannenberg, the deliberate neglect of the Soviet POWs that led to 2 million Soviet POWs dying between June 1941 to the Spring of 1942 (I’d like to make a small qualification, some of the POWs were murdered in concentration camps like Mauthaussen) or Action 14f13. Now I think Jim is an outlier, people like David Irving or Mattogono and Graf will know what those things were, they simply do not discuss them to any large degree.

So, what I’ve found is a rather narrow focus on Jews plus the very specific targeting of certain aspects of the Holocaust. For example, gas chambers are particularly targeted. Over the decades deniers took swipes at the Kremas at Birkenau and the gas chambers of Action Reinhard. Recent attempts also include the gas vans. The key to all of this is to muddy the waters sufficiently so that they themselves don’t actually have to prove anything, it is enough to cast doubt on the existence of the gas chambers. Our Monstrous took a swipe at the Einsatzgruppen, this failed but, again, the key is to muddy the waters without having to prove anything. It’s easy to cry “forgery” and overstate the fact that much of the documentation came from the Soviets (never mind the fact that these documents are corroborated by Western/German sources and that the one major attempt the Soviets made to fake Katyn ended in abject failure).

So, I came back to my original thought. How could something like the Holocaust be faked?

Well, first of all you needed the compliance and agreement of the major powers of the Second World War, the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union. Not only that you needed the compliance of secondary powers like France and Poland. Poland is particularly important because the deportations of the Jews there was hardly a secret. This agreement needed to be iron clad to the point it could survive any shifts in the political landscape.

Next, you needed to fake thousands of documents with corresponding copies available on both sides of the Iron Curtain. This also included making or altering records of both civilian and military authorities so that they matched and corroborated each other. This meant that any original German documents contradicting these fakes needed to be tracked down and destroyed or altered in their turn to avoid future historians from discovering the truth.

Next, all the parties needed to find hundreds of thousands of witnesses that could be intimidated or persuaded to go along with this, along with surviving victims and perpetrators. This also included destroying or altering buildings to match this narrative, along with blueprints of these buildings.

All of this needed to be started before the end of war and completed by the beginning of any court hearings (keep in mind that the decision to try the Nazi leaders came very late in the game, there was disagreement over this between the allies).

You also needed the agreement of all the parties to hide the missing Jews in such a way they could never be accounted for.

Finally, this needed to be done in such that there could never be any leaks.

Ever. No tell-all memoirs, no press releases from disgruntled ex-spies or secretaries, no ex-Nazis safely living in South America announcing to the world the reality of the hoax, no POWs released from the USSR telling his family about the Jews in the USSR on his deathbed, etc.

So, I hope our resident “revisionists” will come out of the shadows, take a look at this and tell me how all of this was possible.”

Unfortunately I didn’t have any luck.

So, I thought I’d park this over here (since a great many deniers post here) in hopes of finally getting some answers.

You kids have fun. I’ll poke back around see what you came up with.


https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016 ... ment-69248

Let's see what happens.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:42 am

I am locked out of ISF - on two different browsers, on two different machines, I get on both that the domain has expired.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:43 am

Jim is apparently having a problem as well.

Let me see if I can get something from the site.

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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Denying-History » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:53 am

I got in without issue.
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Re: So, how does this "hoax" work, anyway?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:57 am

Jim who?

Yeah I cannot get in via my ISP on my phone or laptop or my wife's iPad. But I can get in on my iPhone using phone data. Weird.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97


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