The dumbest denier of all time

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:06 pm

LOL (whoopsie, been-there did in fact reply to a number posts in the thread - just refreshed my memory - but none after I laid out the case for Lodz ghetto and Chelmno . . . )
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:a personal note: what makes this thread of been-there's especially humorous - in a "Jackass" kind of way - is that in 2013 starting with this post and going on for a half dozen or so more, I went over all this with him . . . been-there had written "Treblinka I don't know of but Lodz I do" and then tried to gin up a resettlement case based on a survivor who'd wound up in Sweden. He never replied to anything in the Lodz thread, including the posts following the link above, which contained brief discussion in fact of the very Gehsperre Aktion he now has a thread about, five years later!


Maybe he finally read Hilberg.... I could see that taking him 5 years :roll:


Even if he never read it he may still review it.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:53 pm

Andy's concise replies are a thing of beauty
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:10 am

Aaaaaawwwwww, I think John kicked me off his little blog. I can’t post comments and some of the comments I posted disappeared.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:21 am

Honestly he seems dated and silly to me. I think you're better off :)
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:44 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Aaaaaawwwwww, I think John kicked me off his little blog. I can’t post comments and some of the comments I posted disappeared.


Welcome to the banned club. After your last comment I thought....there goes Jeff....

:D
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:46 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Honestly he seems dated and silly to me. I think you're better off :)


He's incredibly dated....but the fun side is, a lot of the denier brain dead seem to view him as some sort of denier God; the next Mark Weber.

Holocaust Denial truly is dead in the water....

:lol: :lol:
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Jeff...it looks like your short exchange at Wears war has been totally deleted.

...good job I took some screen shots before they did...

8-)

http://www.wearswarts.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/wearswar-fireside-chat-or-repetition-repetition-repetition/
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:16 pm

iwh wrote:Jeff...it looks like your short exchange at Wears war has been totally deleted.

...good job I took some screen shots before they did...

8-)

http://www.wearswarts.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/wearswar-fireside-chat-or-repetition-repetition-repetition/


I’m not surprised. John cries about deniers but doesn’t want a real discussion.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:26 pm

iwh wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Honestly he seems dated and silly to me. I think you're better off :)


He's incredibly dated....but the fun side is, a lot of the denier brain dead seem to view him as some sort of denier God; the next Mark Weber.

Holocaust Denial truly is dead in the water....

:lol: :lol:

Wow, the only place I've heard of him is in here LOL
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:46 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
iwh wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Honestly he seems dated and silly to me. I think you're better off :)


He's incredibly dated....but the fun side is, a lot of the denier brain dead seem to view him as some sort of denier God; the next Mark Weber.

Holocaust Denial truly is dead in the water....

:lol: :lol:

Wow, the only place I've heard of him is in here LOL


You really should read some of his stuff....Hilarious.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:07 am

iwh wrote:You really should read some of his stuff....Hilarious.

For a debunking of new boy on the block John Wear see:

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com


iwh's blog wrote:
As early as the 1950s, the first major Holocaust historian, Gerald Reitlinger was openly doubting the Soviet 4 million figure:
The world has grown mistrustful of “rectified coefficients”, and the figure of 4 million has become ridiculous. Unfortunately Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable fact that 800,000 to 900,000 human beings perished at Auschwitz in its gas chambers and in its camps.

The Final Solution, G Reitlinger, Sphere Books Ltd, 1953. p 500.


First published in Great Britain in 1953 by
Vallentine, Mitchell & Co. Ltd.
© Gerald Reitlinger, 1961
First Sphere Books edition 1971

- G. Reitlinger, The Final Solution, London: Sphere Books, 1971, p. vi [Emphasis added].

The 1953 Vallentine, Mitchell & Company [London] edition was "distributed in the U. S. by Beechhurst Press, N. Y.".

I haven't consulted an 1953 edition, but your rendering of the quote contains numerous discrepancies with the 1971 Sphere Books edition [hereafter "SB:1971"], where it also appears on page 500.

iwh's questionable Reitlinger quote with my annotations in red wrote:
The world has grown mistrustful of “rectified coefficients”, [no comma in SB:1971] and the figure of 4 ["four" in SB:1971] million has become ridiculous. Unfortunately [comma in SB:1971] Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable fact that 800,000 to 900,000 human beings perished at ["in" not 'at' - SB:1971] Auschwitz [comma in SB:1971] in ["in" doesn't appear in SB:1971] its gas chambers and in ["in" doesn't appear in SB:1971] its camps.


Could you please post photos of your extremely rare 1953 Sphere Books edition. You surely wouldn't want anyone thinking you're an inept plagiarist.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby NathanC » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:15 am

All the poor rabbit has is nitpicking. Pathetic.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:29 am

iwh examining Wear's claims wrote:
The number of 6 million appeared again on January 4, 1945, when the Jewish chief of Soviet atrocity propaganda, Ilya Ehrenburg, stated that this is the number of Jews that had died in World War II.

Ah…Ilya Ehrenberg, the Nazi and neo Nazi whipping boy. Here we have an excellent example of Mr Wear’s dishonesty when it comes to sources. Here is one of the sources for this statement:
Hoffmann, Joachim, Stalins Vernichtungskrieg 1941-1945, Munich: Herbig, 1999, pp. 390-393

Well let us put aside the fact that Hoffmann is not the most creditable historian in the world. However, the book is obviously IN GERMAN. Mr Wear has admitted to me on several occasions that he doesn’t understand German! Why has he put in a source he has never actually read?!


In the English translation of his book [pp.402-405], Hoffman published facsimiles of three Ehrenburg articles from Soviet War News and Soviet War News Weekly which claimed 6,000,000 Jews had been killed. Presumably these facsimiles appear in the original German edition too.

The SWN[W] articles are, of course, in English.

iwh examining Wear's claims wrote:
How Ehrenburg and Lestchinsky came up with their numbers fully four months before the end of the war is anyone’s guess.

Assuming that Hoffmann has been accurate in his statement about Ehrenberg (many deniers tend to make things up.) [...]

Hoffmann's facsimiles of Ehrenberg's articles in SWN[W] are genuine. I can post my own photos/photocopies of the same articles if needs be. I also found two more examples of Ehrenburg using the 6m figure before the war ended.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:30 am

NathanC wrote:All the poor rabbit has is nitpicking. Pathetic.


iwh wrote:Here we have an excellent example of Mr Wear’s dishonesty when it comes to sources. [...] Why has he put in a source he has never actually read?!
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:38 am

NathanC wrote:All the poor rabbit has is nitpicking. Pathetic.


Time weighs heavy on his hands.... but maybe he'll prove more successful at finding missing commas than he's been at finding missing Jews.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:52 pm

BRoI wrote:
iwh wrote:
The world has grown mistrustful of “rectified coefficients”, [no comma in SB:1971] and the figure of 4 ["four" in SB:1971] million has become ridiculous. Unfortunately [comma in SB:1971] Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable fact that 800,000 to 900,000 human beings perished at ["in" not 'at' - SB:1971] Auschwitz [comma in SB:1971] in ["in" doesn't appear in SB:1971] its gas chambers and in ["in" doesn't appear in SB:1971] its camps.




Silly me...I really must be more accurate with my typing.
Last edited by iwh on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:59 pm

BRoI wrote:
iwh wrote:
First published in Great Britain in 1953 by
Vallentine, Mitchell & Co. Ltd.
© Gerald Reitlinger, 1961
First Sphere Books edition 1971


Quite correct. This will be corrected in my main article. It still doesn't change my point though.

What REAL revisionism is all about....
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:03 am

iwh wrote:
BRoI wrote:
iwh wrote:
First published in Great Britain in 1953 by
Vallentine, Mitchell & Co. Ltd.
© Gerald Reitlinger, 1961
First Sphere Books edition 1971


Quite correct. This will be corrected in my main article. It still doesn't change my point though.

What REAL revisionism is all about....


I managed to get a look at a 1953 copy of the Reitlinger book. Here is the paragraph again.

"The world has grown mistrustful of 'rectified coefficients' and the figure of four millions has become ridiculous. Unfortunately Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable facts that little less than a million human beings perished in Auschwitz, its gas chambers and its camps."

p460

Only difference is a number range between 800,000 and 900,000 being mentioned (1971 edition) instead of "little less than a million". (1953)

Photos of book and source available for those who require them. Please excuse any possible typing errors.

Thanks to The British Library.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:00 pm

You should have looked at Hilberg's original and revised edition when you were there, then you could have corrected this BS claim:

iwh wrote:Raul Hilberg in his opus “The Destruction of the European Jews” of 1971, describes 600,000 being murdered between May and October 1944, raising the number to 1,000,000 in subsequent editions of his book in the 1980s.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:03 pm

which is weird in that (I thought) the editions of Hilberg's book were 1961, 1985, and 2003 - not 1971
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:34 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:which is weird in that (I thought) the editions of Hilberg's book were 1961, 1985, and 2003 - not 1971


Sorry...my edition is from 1973. Looks like I confused the Reitlinger 1971 book with Hilberg's book.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:which is weird in that (I thought) the editions of Hilberg's book were 1961, 1985, and 2003 - not 1971


Documents of Destruction was published in 1971, but iwh's mis-dating of the original DotEJ isn't that big of a deal, the big deal is what he's claims. I don't have the original so I can't lay it all out for him.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:47 pm

BRoI wrote:You should have looked at Hilberg's original and revised edition when you were there, then you could have corrected this BS claim:

iwh wrote:Raul Hilberg in his opus “The Destruction of the European Jews” of 1971, describes 600,000 being murdered between May and October 1944, raising the number to 1,000,000 in subsequent editions of his book in the 1980s.


Touchy, touchy...simply a confusion between an overall total and a total between a time period.

:roll:
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:49 pm

iwh wrote:
BRoI wrote:You should have looked at Hilberg's original and revised edition when you were there, then you could have corrected this BS claim:

iwh wrote:Raul Hilberg in his opus “The Destruction of the European Jews” of 1971, describes 600,000 being murdered between May and October 1944, raising the number to 1,000,000 in subsequent editions of his book in the 1980s.


Touchy, touchy...simply a confusion between an overall total and a total between a time period.

:roll:

Lying idiot.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:51 pm

iwh wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:which is weird in that (I thought) the editions of Hilberg's book were 1961, 1985, and 2003 - not 1971


Sorry...my edition is from 1973. Looks like I confused the Reitlinger 1971 book with Hilberg's book.

Ah, so '73 would be a reprint of '61? Anyway, I was going to look it up - then I realized, whilst I have the '03 and the '85 Student edition, not the original, I can't find any of it online. And I can't find the '85 in any event LOL
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:52 pm

BRoI wrote:
iwh wrote:
BRoI wrote:You should have looked at Hilberg's original and revised edition when you were there, then you could have corrected this BS claim:

iwh wrote:Raul Hilberg in his opus “The Destruction of the European Jews” of 1971, describes 600,000 being murdered between May and October 1944, raising the number to 1,000,000 in subsequent editions of his book in the 1980s.


Touchy, touchy...simply a confusion between an overall total and a total between a time period.

:roll:

Lying idiot.


Name calling? Tut, tut, tut.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
iwh wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:which is weird in that (I thought) the editions of Hilberg's book were 1961, 1985, and 2003 - not 1971


Sorry...my edition is from 1973. Looks like I confused the Reitlinger 1971 book with Hilberg's book.

Ah, so '73 would be a reprint of '61? Anyway, I was going to look it up - then I realized, whilst I have the '03 and the '85 Student edition, not the original, I can't find any of it online. And I can't find the '85 in any event LOL


Looks like it.

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE EUROPEAN JEWS. Copyright 1961 by Quadrangle books. Inc. This book was originally published in 1961 by Quadrangle Books Inc, Chicago, and is here reprinted by arrangement.

First NEW VIEWPOINTS edition published 1973 by Franklin Watts, Inc"

Please excuse any possible typos.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:13 pm

Wow, the Rabbit’s off his medication.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:18 pm

I mean, holy moly.

:rotfl:
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Andy's concise replies are a thing of beauty

the Łódź discussion has trailed off . . . but I'm posting this here, as Jeffk previously had posted some about Łódź . . . I did notice where been-there asks a number of pointed, shit-stirring questions, for example, "Q7.Could Rumkowski really 'stand before' ALL the 100,000 Jews of the ghetto and make a public announcement?
Q8. And who recorded his speech for posterity and how?"

He asks Q7 because what he deems "the narrative" (USHMM webpage!) says this: "On September 4, at 4:00 P.M., Rumkowski stood before the Jews of the ghetto" - been-there's self-will to idiocy is impressive.

Continuing, and as to the second question I noted, Q8, been-there clearly hasn't read Trunk's book on Łódź or Zelkowicz's account of the Gehsperre: Trunk observes that on the day of the speech (this forgery, if that's where he's headed, was apparently quite elaborate) announcements that Rumkowski would speak that afternoon were posted. The speech was given in Firefighters' Square, where several thousand people assembled.

Two speakers preceded Rumkowski, according to Trunk, and "clearly and unambiguously informed the crowd about the decree" and the deportation of the aged and very young. One of them, S. Jakobson, argued as would the Chairman, in favor of following the Nazi orders "in order to avoid misfortunes, in order to rescue the community."

Rumkowski's speech was "noted down by Zelkowicz" and, in Trunk's view, somewhat dramatized (Josef Zelkowicz - a journalist resident of Łódź ghetto, member of YIVO, member of the Łódź archive staff - compiled in his diary a seventy-plus page account of the September events which included his versions of all three speeches, published in In Those Terrible Days. Notes from the Łódź Ghetto; Zelkowicz was deported to Auschwitz in August 1944 and his writings, gathered up by Nachman Zonabend, became part of the Zonabend Collection which was later donated to the Ghetto Fighters House, Yad Vashem, and YIVO in NYC). Trunk further says that the speech was in Yiddish and that other versions exist.

The Łódź Chronicle, compiled by a committee in the Jewish administration, contained a very brief mention of the speech in its entry for "Litzmannstadt-Ghetto, September 14, 1942"; the mention is consistent with Zelkowicz's notes and attributes the deportation to "instructions received by the Resettlement Commission" which included top aides of Rumkowski.

Rumkowski's speech was followed by a ban (curfew, or Gehsperre), announced in German, on walking on the streets. A permit was required for one to be out and about during the Aktion. Another account of the children's and old people's Aktion was written by Oskar Singer. The Aktion began on September 1st, even before Rumkowski's speech, with the roundups and deportations of those in ghetto hospitals. Biebow himself presided over the hospital Aktion which preceded Rumkowski's speech.

Poor, sad been-there who creates little mysteries for himself through his lack of focus, propensity for self-drama, circumscribed knowledge, and posturing.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:25 am

And another one: been-there fumbles around on Łódź's population, writing,
Lodz was Poland’s second largest city after Warsaw and had a population of 233,000 classified as being 'Jewish'. Yet from February to April 1940, the H-narrative claims less than half of these (100,000 to 160,000) were incarcerated in three neighborhoods of Lodz. That's a peculiarity right there.
Q1. What was special about the other 133,000 Jews that they were exempt?

Er, nothing. This, too, is explained in Trunk's book.

First, there's no mystery about whether 100,000 or 160,000 Jews were incarcerated in the Łódź ghetto. Trunk says that when the ghetto was sealed March-April 1940, approximately 164,000 Jews were trapped in it. By June, the number of Jews in the ghetto numbered 160,423, according to a census ordered by the Germans.

The district chief for the Germans, Übelhör, put forward a plan for ghettoization as early as December 1939; the plan called for separating work-capable and non-work-capable Jews, the latter group to be ghettoized, the former to live outside the ghetto. This plan was ultimately not used. In the meantime, different officials discussed whether to expel Jews from Łódź into the General-Gouvernement. Various plans for doing so were considered, adopted, dropped; but some deportations of Jews from Łódź, as part of more general movements of Jews from the Warthegau, took place during December 1939-January 1940 before the ghetto was established.

Also, as the Germans came into Łódź in fall 1939, many Jews, along with Poles, had fled eastward as refugees. Further, during late fall 1939 and early winter, as Jews in the city began to feel the impact of German discriminatory orders, confiscations and Jewish persecution, more Jews were able to flee Łódź. In addition, Jews also managed to escape Łódź as the ghettoization operation, which was conducted in a pogrom-like manner, opened.

So, about 165,000 of the 233,000 Łódź Jews wound up in the ghetto at the outset. That, at least, is "the narrative" that been-there critiques without being familiar with it.
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:12 am

Been-There knows so little of this subject matter I think it's high time we passed the hat to raise tuition for him to attend a Reichsbrauteschule.

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Oozy_Substance » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am

A denier just tossed at me the argument of open-pit cremation not being possible in Auschwitz because it was built in a swampy area, which does not allow digging.
According to him that also explains the excessive number of cremation muffles in the camps (to fight diseases that may be caused).

Any comments on that pearl?

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:09 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:A denier just tossed at me the argument of open-pit cremation not being possible in Auschwitz because it was built in a swampy area, which does not allow digging.
According to him that also explains the excessive number of cremation muffles in the camps (to fight diseases that may be caused).

Any comments on that pearl?



Your denier doesn’t understand that the Germans themselves figured this out. As a consequence work crews spent a great deal of time working on drainage projects that helped lower the water table. Also, the major outdoor cremations took place during the dry season when the water table was naturally lower.

As for muffles, the number was excessive given any normal mortality rate.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Oozy_Substance » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:53 pm

Man, the denier and I are on fire.
He questions the open-pit cremation pictures from Auschwitz as showing outdoor incineration of corpses by claiming that since the crematoria do not produce smoke, it is not possible that corpses are burned outdoor (as the crematoria can burn them indoor instead).

I refuted him by saying that in this instant moment the picture was taken it is possible the crematoria already stopped from working while the pit was still burning.

I come to wonder, if there an Auschwitz aerial photo showing indoor (crematoria) and outdoor (open-pit) cremation at the same time?

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:29 pm

Check Holocaust Controversies, Oozy. I think there may be one but AFAIK there are only a couple of aerial shots of Auschwitz-Birkenau that the USAAF took in 1944. There may be others, I just can’t remember off hand.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby iwh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:46 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Check Holocaust Controversies, Oozy. I think there may be one but AFAIK there are only a couple of aerial shots of Auschwitz-Birkenau that the USAAF took in 1944. There may be others, I just can’t remember off hand.


The RAF took one showing smoke coming from pit at back of crematoria 5.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/aerial_recon_gallery_05.shtml
For a debunking of new boy on the block John Wear see:

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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby BRoI » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:30 am

iwh wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Check Holocaust Controversies, Oozy. I think there may be one but AFAIK there are only a couple of aerial shots of Auschwitz-Birkenau that the USAAF took in 1944. There may be others, I just can’t remember off hand.


The RAF took one showing smoke coming from pit at back of crematoria 5.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/aerial_recon_gallery_05.shtml


No they didn't, the South African Air Force took them [the smoking pit appears in several frames]:

Sortie 60PR/686
Date: 23 August 1944
Pilot: Captain Harley
Observer: Lieutenant Cliff
SAAF 60 Squadron
Aircraft no.: De Havilland Mosquito MM 366
Take off: 07:55 Foggia (South Italy)
Landing: 13:25 Foggia
Duration: 5:30
Auschwitz area [2 runs] photographed at 11:10 and 11:15; 29,000 feet
Flak: "On 2nd run over Oswiciem 200 bursts of flak accurate for height but trailing."
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
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Re: The dumbest denier of all time

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:59 am

BRoI wrote:
iwh wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Check Holocaust Controversies, Oozy. I think there may be one but AFAIK there are only a couple of aerial shots of Auschwitz-Birkenau that the USAAF took in 1944. There may be others, I just can’t remember off hand.


The RAF took one showing smoke coming from pit at back of crematoria 5.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/aerial_recon_gallery_05.shtml


No they didn't, the South African Air Force took them [the smoking pit appears in several frames]:

Sortie 60PR/686
Date: 23 August 1944
Pilot: Captain Harley
Observer: Lieutenant Cliff
SAAF 60 Squadron
Aircraft no.: De Havilland Mosquito MM 366
Take off: 07:55 Foggia (South Italy)
Landing: 13:25 Foggia
Duration: 5:30
Auschwitz area [2 runs] photographed at 11:10 and 11:15; 29,000 feet
Flak: "On 2nd run over Oswiciem 200 bursts of flak accurate for height but trailing."



Pedantic twot.


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