Full steam ahead for Treblinka

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Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 22, 2016 11:57 am

I have lost track of how many times David's posted something like this about PS-3311 and what he says over and over was a report on Treblinka that's "an embarrassment to Believers." Like so:
David wrote:. . . Hello SM-
For a Believer who squirms like a slug on a bed of salt every time I point out that Steam Chambers were
part of the Holocaust Story, you seem obtuse to a simple fact about humans:
Some times they get things right and some times they get things wrong. . . .

David's not the only one. So I got to thinking about the revisionist obsession with Treblinka steam. Fire away.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun May 22, 2016 3:42 pm

The invincible facade of Jansson is about to be cracked.

"dominant steam narrative" My {!#%@} ass. Testimonies with reference to steam were a demonstrable minority in early reports and all of them were from the lower camp area. We must also factor in the high turnover in prisoners at the time taking an adverse effect on clarity of testimony.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Sun May 22, 2016 4:06 pm

Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 22, 2016 4:13 pm

Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I don't think that that is so. I won't say more here as it is discussed at what I posted at HC.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Sun May 22, 2016 5:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I don't think that that is so. I won't say more here as it is discussed at what I posted at HC.


It generally was confused witnesses and a good number of them were generally resistance members (from what I could tell) whom spied on the camp. Nizkor advocated the same thing about the Steam chamber testimonies in their 66 questions. I'll go back and re-read your post though, I didn't exactly see any mention of it but it might be due to me skimming it over.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 22, 2016 5:54 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I don't think that that is so. I won't say more here as it is discussed at what I posted at HC.


It generally was confused witnesses and a good number of them were generally resistance members (from what I could tell) whom spied on the camp. Nizkor advocated the same thing about the Steam chamber testimonies in their 66 questions. I'll go back and re-read your post though, I didn't exactly see any mention of it but it might be due to me skimming it over.

Part C will address this. The major sources for steam are not members of the Polish resistance but Jewish escapees from Treblinka. The Polish underground sources that I know of generally state that Jews were being gassed, insofar as they state a method, for example, TEXT. I'd love a reference to the ones you've seen.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Sun May 22, 2016 7:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I don't think that that is so. I won't say more here as it is discussed at what I posted at HC.


It generally was confused witnesses and a good number of them were generally resistance members (from what I could tell) whom spied on the camp. Nizkor advocated the same thing about the Steam chamber testimonies in their 66 questions. I'll go back and re-read your post though, I didn't exactly see any mention of it but it might be due to me skimming it over.

Part C will address this. The major sources for steam are not members of the Polish resistance but Jewish escapees from Treblinka. The Polish underground sources that I know of generally state that Jews were being gassed, insofar as they state a method, for example, TEXT. I'd love a reference to the ones you've seen.


My reasoning is mostly based on the postings of Danny Keren from Alt.Revisonism, I'll go do some digging and link you to all the relevant sources and PM you all of Kerens comments to steam shower posts by deniers. Most generally the news papers from 1943 generally were sourced around that of Polish spies. Here I might also have to do some digging to find the new york times papers.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby nickterry » Sun May 22, 2016 10:07 pm

Denying-History wrote:My reasoning is mostly based on the postings of Danny Keren from Alt.Revisonism, I'll go do some digging and link you to all the relevant sources and PM you all of Kerens comments to steam shower posts by deniers. Most generally the news papers from 1943 generally were sourced around that of Polish spies. Here I might also have to do some digging to find the new york times papers.


Anything that reached the English-language press is fifth or sixth hand, so don't bother.

The Polish underground reports are known and available to us; there is an article from the 1960s that extracts the key examples (but omits a few), mostly appearing in the quasi-weekly Current Information (Informacja biezaca). From there they were compiled into monthly reports, the Pro Memoria series, which then were retyped into situation reports in London. The Polish underground reports mention gas with only very few exceptions.

The exceptions, as StatMech will discuss, all derive from the Hersz Wasser-edited report that left the Warsaw ghetto in November 1942. Pretty much every reiteration from late 1942 onwards that appears in English-language publications traces back to this report, and does not correlate with a separate independent source of Polish or indeed Polish-Jewish provenance. There are a number of 'tells' that identify the Wasser report as a source, not just steam but other details about the camp. Pretty much any report speaking of Treblinka A and B is from this provenance.

Polish resistance sources heard accounts from fugitives that did not reach the Warsaw ghetto; there was also evidently some hearsay in the vicinity of the camp that distorted details; not one Warsaw ghetto-archived account mentions those details. At least 2 lengthy accounts by escapees, both anonymous and both mentioning gas, were known to the Delegatura independently of the Warsaw ghetto's information-gathering efforts.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 22, 2016 10:10 pm

Thanks, Nick, yes, I would urge that D-H read the next two parts of the Blog piece, both address his point directly. I'd rather leave things as they are right now until they're published, then see if objections and confusion remain.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Sun May 22, 2016 10:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks, Nick, yes, I would urge that D-H read the next two parts of the Blog piece, both address his point directly. I'd rather leave things as they are right now until they're published, then see if objections and confusion remain.


I will be sure to read them.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 24, 2016 9:33 pm

Part B on Krzepicki (footnotes and linking to first part "under construction") - the first two parts of the blog piece deal with Jansson's mischaracterizations of the testimony of two early Treblinka escapees - Jacob Rabinowicz and Abraham Krzepicki; part C will broaden the perspective to the wider array of early testimonies and give some conclusions about the value of the testimonies that mention steam along with the far more numerous testimonies that describe the killing agent as gas . . . keep 'em coming!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 25, 2016 3:36 am

Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.
For Treblinka worker-inmate Mr Rosenberg, he used the expression steam room, for a laundry, in Minsk. Eric Hunt quoted Mr Rosenberg out of context to claim it was a steam chamber at Treblinka II.

This was just after David, the holocaust denier, was claiming that Treblinka II was a munitions factory, for reprocessing soviet munitions. ( This was when David was very very mad and making up new stories on the spot to avoid answering questions about his previous claims.)
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13470&p=207171&hilit=munitions#p207171

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.


I loved this claim as I was reading a book on Germany replacing Russian 76.2mm guns (Marder III), with German 75mm gun (Marder II) as they were running out of captured soviet munitions and withdrawing, thus removing opportunity to capture more Soviet munitions. The alternative was for German production of 76.2mm ordinance and the capital required to tool up for that. I had a field day teasing David.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 25, 2016 5:24 am

Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I'd think a certain amount of steam was naturally mixed in, considering the mass of naked, shorn* and hard breathing bodies in such a small space. It would have been especially noticeable on cooler days.


* There was also large steam kettle/device mentioned for disinfesting the cut hair. I haven't been able to verify that. Does anyone know anything about it?

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 25, 2016 9:50 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.
For Treblinka worker-inmate Mr Rosenberg, he used the expression steam room, for a laundry, in Minsk. Eric Hunt quoted Mr Rosenberg out of context to claim it was a steam chamber at Treblinka II.

I keep going back to this . . . not only did Hunt do that, but Heinz Rosenberg was almost certainly not sent to Treblinka but rather Sobibór. So Hunt scored a double whammy on his claim - the steam was in a laundry in Minsk, Rosenberg never set foot in Treblinka.

Matthew Allard wrote:This was just after David, the holocaust denier, was claiming that Treblinka II was a munitions factory, for reprocessing soviet munitions. ( This was when David was very very mad and making up new stories on the spot to avoid answering questions about his previous claims.)
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13470&p=207171&hilit=munitions#p207171

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.

David's understanding, ahem, of Treblinka takes many forms, is incredibly varied, is self-contradictory, and amounts to utter nonsense.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Wed May 25, 2016 11:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Allard wrote:This was just after David, the holocaust denier, was claiming that Treblinka II was a munitions factory, for reprocessing soviet munitions. ( This was when David was very very mad and making up new stories on the spot to avoid answering questions about his previous claims.)
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13470&p=207171&hilit=munitions#p207171

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.

David's understanding, ahem, of Treblinka takes many forms, is incredibly varied, is self-contradictory, and amounts to utter nonsense.


David's understanding of any of the camps systems is vague at best. It seems he changes minor things to his arguments in an attempt to refine them. He's well aware of how they work, but he just wants to find something that changes the main story in anyway. I believe he thinks that if he finds something that changes the story in one way, then he disproves the entire holocaust.

It's the general 'false in one' tactic.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 25, 2016 11:47 am

David makes up utter crap: Matthew pointed out his gravel/munitions arguments with Treblinka; with Treblinka he concocts varying numbers sent to the camp and various fantasies about the ramp and other features of the camp. We just saw with Majdanek how David invented an arrival-entry scenario to fit his opinions - out of thin air, citing not a single source. He invents conclusions of the IMT to fit his views (e.g., on Majdanek death toll and fertilizer, steam chambers at Treblinka) - these things are particularly odd in that it isn't even much work to read what the IMT judgment says. One could go on. But David is a liar and fabulist. He utilizes this forum as a vehicle for a middle-grades level creative writing exercise.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Wed May 25, 2016 12:11 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I'd think a certain amount of steam was naturally mixed in, considering the mass of naked, shorn* and hard breathing bodies in such a small space. It would have been especially noticeable on cooler days.


* There was also large steam kettle/device mentioned for disinfesting the cut hair. I haven't been able to verify that. Does anyone know anything about it?


I do know of the disinfection process that happened in the barracks, but I don't know of anything saying steam and exhaust entered the chamber together. I know of a testimony that it could switch between ether or.... But never them both entering the room at the same time.

I'll see if I can find anything.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 25, 2016 3:16 pm

Denying-History wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I'd think a certain amount of steam was naturally mixed in, considering the mass of naked, shorn* and hard breathing bodies in such a small space. It would have been especially noticeable on cooler days.


* There was also large steam kettle/device mentioned for disinfesting the cut hair. I haven't been able to verify that. Does anyone know anything about it?


I do know of the disinfection process that happened in the barracks, but I don't know of anything saying steam and exhaust entered the chamber together. I know of a testimony that it could switch between ether or.... But never them both entering the room at the same time.

I'll see if I can find anything.

Maybe I wrote that a bit convoluted, but I meant the steam naturally produced by the bodies of the victims themselves packed into the rooms during the gassing process. Once the doors opened, it might have become quite visible when mixing with the outside air.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Wed May 25, 2016 3:37 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Most testimony of steam chambers are from Resistance members in Poland who basically watch the chamber from a distance. They basically made false conclusions on the exhaust spewing out when the gas chambers were open.

I'd think a certain amount of steam was naturally mixed in, considering the mass of naked, shorn* and hard breathing bodies in such a small space. It would have been especially noticeable on cooler days.


* There was also large steam kettle/device mentioned for disinfesting the cut hair. I haven't been able to verify that. Does anyone know anything about it?


I do know of the disinfection process that happened in the barracks, but I don't know of anything saying steam and exhaust entered the chamber together. I know of a testimony that it could switch between ether or.... But never them both entering the room at the same time.

I'll see if I can find anything.

Maybe I wrote that a bit convoluted, but I meant the steam naturally produced by the bodies of the victims themselves packed into the rooms during the gassing process. Once the doors opened, it might have become quite visible when mixing with the outside air.


Ah, so like when you see your breath in winter kind of thing.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 25, 2016 4:15 pm

This, folks, had nothing to do with the "steam" testimonies . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 25, 2016 4:17 pm

Yup.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu May 26, 2016 9:32 am

The concluding part of the series on deniers and "steam chambers" is posted now at Holocaust Controversies blog. Again, a big thanks to the people at HC for affording me a platform for publishing these thoughts (and those of you who helped me try to reduce the number of typos and errors - you know who you are!).

Scrmbldggs and I went back and forth yesterday more on the above. Keep 'em coming!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu May 26, 2016 3:14 pm

Fantastic work SM

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat May 28, 2016 6:05 pm

Thanks for that excellent piece! and the honor of having been allowed to be a part of the confusion. :-P

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Darren Wilshak » Sat May 28, 2016 6:49 pm

Good to see that project bear fruit, "Statty."

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 30, 2016 2:05 am

God help us, somehow the comments on the "steam thesis" have veered off to "corpse color"! LOL
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 30, 2016 3:00 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:God help us, somehow the comments on the "steam thesis" have veered off to "corpse color"! LOL

LOL Oh great!
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon May 30, 2016 3:23 am

Lividity would not be present for several hours.

The immediate discoloration would only be present in a fraction of the corpses due to a number of factors, namely the health of the victims, the portion who simply suffocated or choked to death on the actual smoke and exhaust. I would say that only about a sixth of victims would have pink discoloration of any kind.

And that discoloration in of itself is nothing special - Eric Hunt posted a picture on rodoh of his roommate/side chick/whatever who apparently had carbon monoxide poisoning and pink discoloration. I had to put on my reading glasses and squint like a {!#%@} to notice any discoloration, it was very slight and could have easily be mistaken in a rushed scenario for natural pigmentation. Treblinka sonderkommandos would not have taken particular note of it given the circumstances, especially considering that not very many would have displayed it at all.

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 30, 2016 10:57 am

I was really laughing about a derail there, not encouraging one here. :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Darren Wilshak » Mon May 30, 2016 10:59 am

:-D

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Xcalibur » Mon May 30, 2016 12:53 pm

Mein Gott, a discussion of corpse discoloration without Berg spitting venom like a meth-addicted puff adder?

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon May 30, 2016 3:20 pm

:lol:

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Pyrrho » Mon May 30, 2016 6:24 pm

Hmm something is breaking the layout.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby NathanC » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:39 pm

StatMech must be proud. The troll on his submission has been suffering a slow but sure breakdown. Congratulations. Your stuff was too high class for them to deal with. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:10 pm

Thanks - I've been following along. He's yet to say anything relevant, new or interesting.I admire you guys staying at it!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:23 pm

I ran his/her self description through a translator. S/he got it right. :-P

"A guy who speculates
is like an animal, on barren heath
led around by an evil spirit in a circle,
and all around is beautiful, green pasture.
Source: Faust 1, study. (Mephistopheles)"

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:12 pm

It is hard to believe that that is a conversation that is actually taking place. Well said by Sergey Romanov:
Re: the matter of testimonies. There are basically no 100% accurate testimonies (worthy of the name) due to how both human memory and human speech work. There will always be some inaccuracies, so it doesn't make sense to speak of "truthful" testimonies in the denier sense - because deniers want absolute accuracy (which is why bhigr equated an irrefutable testimony with the truth itself!). The moment a denier admits that a testimony can be partially inaccurate *and* truthful at the same time is the moment one large pillar of HD crumbles.

To which I'd add that testimonies are also shaped by point of view and perspective - the differing ways in which different people see and experience the same event based on their individual situations (where they see it from, whether what they see if familiar, etc). That's why historians look for a range of testimonies - and other sources of evidence - about the same event.

But the guy in that comments thread is just saying nah-nah-nah and writing whatever silliness comes into his head to keep everyone going.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:23 pm

I am legitimately baffled at the sheer stupidity of this guy. It's like all appeals to reason fly over his {!#%@} head

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:36 pm

That's pretty low. Location of said head, I mean...

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:59 pm

Someone is making comments there to the point of hysteria - rapid-fire, thoughtless, tangential, and self-contradictory . . . I don't think someone liked what I wrote, but he can't find an angle to actually discuss that. {!#%@} 'em.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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