French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby David » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:21 am

French comedian and social critic Dieudonne M’bala M’bala is an important figure in France and represents the views of many young people and people outside of the “Establishment.”
Unfortunately he has become the target of a disgraceful program of censorship by the French and Israeli governments who fear his expressions of concern regarding the oppression of the Palestinian peoples and his lack of belief in the officially mandated history of the Holocaust.

The latest antic of the Censors was to pressure the Special Administrative Region (Hong Kong) to keep him from
performing in Hong Kong. Obviously Mr. M’bala M’bala is no threat to the interests of Hong Kong but theHong Kong
government bowed to the pressure of foreign governments to prevent Mr. M’bala M’bala’s performance.

Holocaust Believers...the cutting edge of censorship today.

http://hongkong.coconuts.co/2016/01/29/ ... -hong-kong
Last edited by David on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:08 am

M'Bala M'Bala is a horrific and disgusting antisemitic propagandist who espouses right wing racialist sentiment. He makes morbid jokes about the genocide and expresses hatred for Jews. Anyone who finds his materiel comic or amusing could benefit from a little shock therapy, Angola State style .

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Tallboy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:02 am

David wrote:Obviously Mr. M’bala M’bala is no threat to the interests of Hong Kong...

Perhaps Hong Kong, like the civilized world, has an interest in not giving a platform to racists.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:04 am

Ha, ha-----he condones the attack on Charlie Hebdo. Nuff Said.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:21 am

David wrote:French comedian and social critic Dieudonne M’bala M’bala is an important figure in France
Is he David? Please tell us the most important speech or joke he gave? What was that? You can't give one example? :lol:

David wrote:Holocaust Believers...the cutting edge of censorship today.
...and you best evidence for your holocaust denial belief system.....is a little known contemporary, French comedian cracking anti Jew jokes.

That's great David. You should go away and write a book. :lol:

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby NathanC » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:31 am

David wrote: The Hong Kong Government bowed to the pressure of Foreign Governments


Wait. David seriously wants us to believe that the same Hong Kong Government that sheltered Edward Snowden from the USA is now suddenly going to "bow to the pressure of 'foreign governments'"? He really has lost his mind.

In all seriousness, David's nonsense has zero chance of happening. Hong Kong's Government is heavily biased towards Mainland China. They don't give two shits about what "Foreign Governments" Have to say. Seriously, I was there when there was a big row about Japanese people seizing Islands near Taiwan, claimed by Mainland China. A lot of people in Hong Kong were really swept up in the nationalistic fervor - The local news even covered Chinese Nationalists who came in to the local ferry terminal from the disputed islands.

David: So obsessed with how the Jews and the "West" are screwing over his beloved Nazis, that he doesn't know that the world has other things to do besides entertaining his fantasies.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:00 am

We already have a thread on Dieudonné. What's the purpose of a 2nd one - to show how asinine David is? If so, it's working.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby David » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:36 am

My my, what a rabid pack of critics.

For anyone who wants to do something like actually hear
what you are being TOLD is the" right wing racialist sentiment" of Mr. M'bala M'bala.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvlRIG_w_T8
Subtitles in English...the piece on George Bush is in French but with
an "American accent."

Caution (Believers on this thread may find comments sympathetic to
Palestinians offensive)

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:46 am

Well, I agreed with him up to 3.00 where he jokes that we planned 911. Until then, it was a George Carlin rip off without the style.

You can't make Bush a retard and then claim he had the finesse that planning 911 would have required. Motive to do so totally unaddressed.

Well.....the French supposedly like Jerry Lewis too. No accounting for humor.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Gord » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:33 am

David wrote:For anyone who wants to do something like actually hear
what you are being TOLD is the" right wing racialist sentiment" of Mr. M'bala M'bala.

Some of it was funny, but his anti-gay and anti-Jewish fervor is quite disturbing.

He's one of those odd people who are at times extremely left-wing, and at times extremely right-wing -- apparently he practices whatever politics it takes to hate someone.

Caution (Believers on this thread may find comments sympathetic to
Palestinians offensive)

If you find it offensive, why do you support him?
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:27 am

David wrote:Caution (Believers on this thread may find comments sympathetic to
Palestinians offensive)


Please check out our thread on the Israel-Palestine conflict. It shatters your drooling preconceived notions, {!#%@}.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:22 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
David wrote:Caution (Believers on this thread may find comments sympathetic to
Palestinians offensive)


Please check out our thread on the Israel-Palestine conflict. It shatters your drooling preconceived notions, {!#%@}.

Besides which, what makes David so certain that no one here has seen or read Diedonné's material? Stupid thread.
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Postby David » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:43 pm

It is interesting that not one Believer has commented on the governmental actions preventing
Dieudonne from speaking.
Here is an article about the deportation-
http://hongkong.coconuts.co/2016/01/29/ ... -hong-kong

The Believers' range from Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"
to SM's opinion that commenting on denial (of Free Speech, that is)
makes for a "stupid thread."

Most of the posts were brayed out by people who had not seen Dieudonne perform...which is why I posted
a clip of his presentations.

Anyone think he should be jailed for his speech?

Anyone want to comment on the important issue of governmental oppression of Speech?

Anyone smart enough to see that Dieudonne comments are a foil to try and make
people (mainly bigoted white people) THINK about WHY someone would go blow themselves up?
Since we can't live together, let us die together


As he pointed out, America is the only country to have dropped the atomic bomb on women and
children...albeit safely from 35,000 feet. Is that relevant or irrelevant as a comparison to
someone who would commit the horrible act of blowing himself up in a market?

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:53 pm

^ as I said, his "comedy" is racist and hateful. Anyone who finds it funny needs a good kick in the arse.

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Re:

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:06 pm

David wrote:It is interesting that not one Believer has commented on the governmental actions preventing
Dieudonne from speaking.

You think this because you have the attention span of a gnat. Many of us have commented in other threads, IIRC at length in the Charlie Hebdo thread, and criticized the authorities for criminalizing Dieudonné's utterances and punishing him. We do not feel it necessary to ritually intone our disagreement every time you open up a new thread on Dieudonné.
David wrote:SM's opinion that commenting on denial (of Free Speech, that is) makes for a "stupid thread."

No, the reason that the thread is stupid is that it's all been said before and your arguments again are just a tired rehash. Specifically I wrote that the thread was stupid when you attributed, without any reason for doing so, to everyone who disagrees with HD a lack of sympathy for the Palestinians . . . but I also said your thread was stupid because you're a dishonest troll.

David wrote:Most of the posts were brayed out by people who had not seen Dieudonne perform...which is why I posted a clip of his presentations.

Have you seen him perform? I've not, as I don't speak French, subtitles aren't usually available during live performances, and he doesn't tour the US to my knowledge. I have a good friend who loves Dieudonné, so I've discussed his material a lot and had many a good argument about his stuff and what it evokes in the French context.

David wrote:Anyone think he should be jailed for his speech?

See previous discussion in Charlie Hebdo thread. Or is that too difficult for you?

David wrote:Anyone want to comment on the important issue of governmental oppression of Speech?

Not in this thread. Most of us have expressed views on free speech and criminalization of speech, but you continue to refuse to credit what people write, so go f u c k yourself. Speaking for myself, I won't be repeating my opinions about this, since they're well known to anyone who reads this forum regularly or has read your thread on Charlie Hebdo. You ask here only because you're a miserable trollish shit-for-brains.

David wrote:As he pointed out, America is the only country to have dropped the atomic bomb on women and children...albeit safely from 35,000 feet.

OMG you can see why people fear him so! No one else has ever figured such a thing out.The US dropped atomic weapons? From high altitudes? And no other country has? Somebody, jot this down, quick! Send this information to David, pronto!

Such a well-worn insight appears as a mountain on the vast, flat plains of your intellect, David.
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Re:

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:15 pm

David wrote: Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"


You lying {!#%@}.

DMM was good friends with Jean Marie Le Pen, the French Fascist leader, and expressed support for his policies. He is also quite close with Robert Faurisson. My statement was not an opinion but rather a documented, established fact. It's all a matter of public record - anyone with a computer and half a brain can feel free to check for themselves and find out just how correct I am.

For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.

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Re: Re:

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:22 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:anyone with a computer and half a brain

You're giving David too much credit. We feel certain he's got a computer but . . .
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Re: Re:

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:42 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.

To repeat ourselves, as I promised not to do, here and elsewhere we discussed speech protections for unpopular and even despised views: "(1) the speech restrictions of even the Smith Act (1940) were found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court (in 1957 no less!) despite 10s and 10s of convictions of Communists and Communist sympathizers during the early years of the Cold War (in the '40s the act was used chiefly against labor and Nazi sympathizers, in the '50s to convict Communists) and (2) there is much that I find harmful to society (starting today with the Tea Party in the US, or the Westboro Church as an extreme example, or the hateful advocacy for returning this forum to its old format!) but, insofar as speech rights are concerned, my opinion doesn't govern. That is a good thing, because other people's conclusions about what is harmful to society don't govern what I can advocate in speech or writing either, and thus I am also protected when I find myself having minority and even despised viewpoints (such as 'keep the new forum format') - and everyone is so protected." In the same post I also explained why Brandenburg v Ohio (protecting the speech rights of the KKK) was an improvement on earlier speech standards (I was thinking of Schenck v. United States and Abrams v. United States). I also wrote in the Hebdo thread that "The spirit that the First Amendment speaks to is that minority, offensive viewpoints are legally protected." Horrific, nauseating human beings with wretched material should not be punished for saying horrific, nauseating things in a wretched manner, IMO. But, sigh, as I told David, we've been through all this. And, no, there's not a "Believer" point of view.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:53 pm

Oh well, these two news items are related to the theme of this thread: "France: Le Pen fined over Holocaust remarks" and "French dancer fined just one euro for taking unflattering 'plane nap' selfie with Jean-Marie Le Pen". In the US, no one would be convicted for a comment like Le Pen's on "gas chambers." The airplane photo is a closer case in the US: first, people in public may be photographed, and their images shared in non-commercial uses, without consent, subject to some constraints; second, public figures may be photographed and their images shared without consent with very few constraints; but, third, an airplane is not a public space - and photographer inside a plane is subject to the rules and prohibitions imposed by the property owner - a photography certainly can be prohibited from taking photographs in a private space and convicted of trespassing, I believe, for refusing to stop photographing. My guess is that in the US the "selfie with Le Pen" would be permissible, but I'm not certain.

It is now appropriate for each member of this forum to genuflect to David's free speech gods and ritually repeat his or her views on free speech and government prohibitions on "hate speech," HD, and selfies.
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Re: Re:

Postby Balsamo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:09 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
David wrote: Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"


You lying {!#%@}.

DMM was good friends with Jean Marie Le Pen, the French Fascist leader, and expressed support for his policies. He is also quite close with Robert Faurisson. My statement was not an opinion but rather a documented, established fact. It's all a matter of public record - anyone with a computer and half a brain can feel free to check for themselves and find out just how correct I am.

For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.


:lol:
Sorry to be a {!#%@}
:lol:

But your rendition is not totally correct.

I discovered Dieudonne when he was in a duo with Elie Semoun - his Jewish best friend - and that was in 1991. Both were hilarious breaking up taboos, making fun of unpleasant subjects, and the duo reached a huge success. For more than 13 years, Dieudonne was considered by the French media as the most talented and prolific comedian of his time...the honey moon lasted until 2004.
And for my part, i consider him as one of the most talented comedians as well. So i need your shock terrapy!

That being said, that he got lost in his fight again the establishment, and that he got really more than disturbing with his position vs the Jews, is obvious and it is disgraceful. I do not laugh when the jokes hurts my feelings and principles, I did not like his famous show when he invited Faurisson, a show rightly called "J'ai fais le con", which could be translated as "I did a silly thing" or " I have been being stupid" or something like that.

To react to you quote, let me say that DMM has a very complex character (or is one), he just does not understand that most people's perceptions are stuck to the first degree. Actually, DMM fought against the FN in the 90's with success. And to get an understanding, on must keep in mind that there is a PRE 2004 and an AFTER. He clearly switched to the "Dark side", but no one ever mentions the whys and the hows in this sad story.
Reading the english article in wiki, i am almost fascinated by how information loses its substance when traveling abroad.
What i mean is that the info that reached you in Canada or others in the UK or the USA, is only a part of the whole story. But that is how things goes today.
The Quenelle being the best example of it!

So just to explain the two main famous points (JM Le Pen) and Faurisson...
The first provocation with JM Le Pen - godfather of one of his child - took place in 2008. Since one of his sketch (in 2004), he lost all access to the media, so he thought that such a provocation would make talk about him - and damn was he right. To this date, we still don't know if the whole story is true, maybe it is (But Dieudonne being an atheist, and this Godfather thing in France having religious resonance, it is not that important)...anyway he got into the news, and that was what mattered...

By then, he became a Pariah, a real one, and he had this stupid idea to invite on stage maybe the only person who was even more pariah than himself, Faurisson. Provocation again.
And basically, this is how he lost himself, by playing roles to make buzz, well no one really knows who he really is, and as far as i am concerned, i don't care at all. Causes and effects made the rest and led him to insanity...well too bad...
But he did great damages to the image of the french Establishment, that is for sure.

Whatever he was and why he became what he is is a very interesting and complex topic, but the truth is that he has become a true Anti-Semite, and it is a pity to see such a talent wasted in hatred.

Now, i also agree with Statmec, here, we have covered this subject many times, i did anyway, and there is no need for another thread.
As far as the Op is concerned, no one knows what happened in Hong Kong, but most probably he failed to disclose his previous condemnations, and that is enough to prevent anyone from entering a country! the USA are denying visa everyday and so do many other Countries. Maradona was prevented to go to Disneyland with his kids...well too bad...and so what? Another conspiracy?

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:19 pm

Balsamo, your comments on Dieudonné are quite similar to ones made by my friend except you end up in a different place, as he cannot see that Dieudonné "lost himself," as you put it, and eventually came to be a "true Anti-Semite." It is often that way with provocateurs, no, in that they seize on whatever provokes; my friend is happy for the damage done to the French establishment, no matter what ideas and prejudices are used to provoke the bastards. I always end up saying to him that the choices aren't content free - and he's always giddy from watching the authorities {!#%@} up again.
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Re: Re:

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:52 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
David wrote: Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"


You lying {!#%@}.

DMM was good friends with Jean Marie Le Pen, the French Fascist leader, and expressed support for his policies. He is also quite close with Robert Faurisson. My statement was not an opinion but rather a documented, established fact. It's all a matter of public record - anyone with a computer and half a brain can feel free to check for themselves and find out just how correct I am.

For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.


:lol:
Sorry to be a {!#%@}
:lol:

But your rendition is not totally correct.

I discovered Dieudonne when he was in a duo with Elie Semoun - his Jewish best friend - and that was in 1991. Both were hilarious breaking up taboos, making fun of unpleasant subjects, and the duo reached a huge success. For more than 13 years, Dieudonne was considered by the French media as the most talented and prolific comedian of his time...the honey moon lasted until 2004.
And for my part, i consider him as one of the most talented comedians as well. So i need your shock terrapy!

That being said, that he got lost in his fight again the establishment, and that he got really more than disturbing with his position vs the Jews, is obvious and it is disgraceful. I do not laugh when the jokes hurts my feelings and principles, I did not like his famous show when he invited Faurisson, a show rightly called "J'ai fais le con", which could be translated as "I did a silly thing" or " I have been being stupid" or something like that.

To react to you quote, let me say that DMM has a very complex character (or is one), he just does not understand that most people's perceptions are stuck to the first degree. Actually, DMM fought against the FN in the 90's with success. And to get an understanding, on must keep in mind that there is a PRE 2004 and an AFTER. He clearly switched to the "Dark side", but no one ever mentions the whys and the hows in this sad story.
Reading the english article in wiki, i am almost fascinated by how information loses its substance when traveling abroad.
What i mean is that the info that reached you in Canada or others in the UK or the USA, is only a part of the whole story. But that is how things goes today.
The Quenelle being the best example of it!

So just to explain the two main famous points (JM Le Pen) and Faurisson...
The first provocation with JM Le Pen - godfather of one of his child - took place in 2008. Since one of his sketch (in 2004), he lost all access to the media, so he thought that such a provocation would make talk about him - and damn was he right. To this date, we still don't know if the whole story is true, maybe it is (But Dieudonne being an atheist, and this Godfather thing in France having religious resonance, it is not that important)...anyway he got into the news, and that was what mattered...

By then, he became a Pariah, a real one, and he had this stupid idea to invite on stage maybe the only person who was even more pariah than himself, Faurisson. Provocation again.
And basically, this is how he lost himself, by playing roles to make buzz, well no one really knows who he really is, and as far as i am concerned, i don't care at all. Causes and effects made the rest and led him to insanity...well too bad...
But he did great damages to the image of the french Establishment, that is for sure.

Whatever he was and why he became what he is is a very interesting and complex topic, but the truth is that he has become a true Anti-Semite, and it is a pity to see such a talent wasted in hatred.

Now, i also agree with Statmec, here, we have covered this subject many times, i did anyway, and there is no need for another thread.
As far as the Op is concerned, no one knows what happened in Hong Kong, but most probably he failed to disclose his previous condemnations, and that is enough to prevent anyone from entering a country! the USA are denying visa everyday and so do many other Countries. Maradona was prevented to go to Disneyland with his kids...well too bad...and so what? Another conspiracy?


Balsamo, I was aware of his "normal" period in the 1990's. It seems that he relied a lot on his other half and the consensus is that he lost his way after splitting with Semoun.

As for my posts: It is indeed a matter or fact that since 2004 he has espoused radical far-right racialist sentiment and has closely allied himself with La Pere du Marine. And I do not view him as complex: he is a hateful Holocaust denier, plain and simple. He is no different than Eric Hunt or FP Berg in my eyes.

His attempts to mask his hateful bile as "anti-Zionism" doesn't work on me. Anti-Zionism would be making jokes about Bibi or Libermann. He does none of that and prefers to make crude gas chamber jokes and espouse viscous rhetoric against Jews.For me, he is the French Goebbels.

I know a few French Jews. They're nice people, likable, and they all hate DMM, and I don't blame them.

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Re: Re:

Postby Balsamo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:27 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Balsamo wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
David wrote: Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"


You lying {!#%@}.

DMM was good friends with Jean Marie Le Pen, the French Fascist leader, and expressed support for his policies. He is also quite close with Robert Faurisson. My statement was not an opinion but rather a documented, established fact. It's all a matter of public record - anyone with a computer and half a brain can feel free to check for themselves and find out just how correct I am.

For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.


:lol:
Sorry to be a {!#%@}
:lol:

But your rendition is not totally correct.

I discovered Dieudonne when he was in a duo with Elie Semoun - his Jewish best friend - and that was in 1991. Both were hilarious breaking up taboos, making fun of unpleasant subjects, and the duo reached a huge success. For more than 13 years, Dieudonne was considered by the French media as the most talented and prolific comedian of his time...the honey moon lasted until 2004.
And for my part, i consider him as one of the most talented comedians as well. So i need your shock terrapy!

That being said, that he got lost in his fight again the establishment, and that he got really more than disturbing with his position vs the Jews, is obvious and it is disgraceful. I do not laugh when the jokes hurts my feelings and principles, I did not like his famous show when he invited Faurisson, a show rightly called "J'ai fais le con", which could be translated as "I did a silly thing" or " I have been being stupid" or something like that.

To react to you quote, let me say that DMM has a very complex character (or is one), he just does not understand that most people's perceptions are stuck to the first degree. Actually, DMM fought against the FN in the 90's with success. And to get an understanding, on must keep in mind that there is a PRE 2004 and an AFTER. He clearly switched to the "Dark side", but no one ever mentions the whys and the hows in this sad story.
Reading the english article in wiki, i am almost fascinated by how information loses its substance when traveling abroad.
What i mean is that the info that reached you in Canada or others in the UK or the USA, is only a part of the whole story. But that is how things goes today.
The Quenelle being the best example of it!

So just to explain the two main famous points (JM Le Pen) and Faurisson...
The first provocation with JM Le Pen - godfather of one of his child - took place in 2008. Since one of his sketch (in 2004), he lost all access to the media, so he thought that such a provocation would make talk about him - and damn was he right. To this date, we still don't know if the whole story is true, maybe it is (But Dieudonne being an atheist, and this Godfather thing in France having religious resonance, it is not that important)...anyway he got into the news, and that was what mattered...

By then, he became a Pariah, a real one, and he had this stupid idea to invite on stage maybe the only person who was even more pariah than himself, Faurisson. Provocation again.
And basically, this is how he lost himself, by playing roles to make buzz, well no one really knows who he really is, and as far as i am concerned, i don't care at all. Causes and effects made the rest and led him to insanity...well too bad...
But he did great damages to the image of the french Establishment, that is for sure.

Whatever he was and why he became what he is is a very interesting and complex topic, but the truth is that he has become a true Anti-Semite, and it is a pity to see such a talent wasted in hatred.

Now, i also agree with Statmec, here, we have covered this subject many times, i did anyway, and there is no need for another thread.
As far as the Op is concerned, no one knows what happened in Hong Kong, but most probably he failed to disclose his previous condemnations, and that is enough to prevent anyone from entering a country! the USA are denying visa everyday and so do many other Countries. Maradona was prevented to go to Disneyland with his kids...well too bad...and so what? Another conspiracy?


Balsamo, I was aware of his "normal" period in the 1990's. It seems that he relied a lot on his other half and the consensus is that he lost his way after splitting with Semoun.

As for my posts: It is indeed a matter or fact that since 2004 he has espoused radical far-right racialist sentiment and has closely allied himself with La Pere du Marine. And I do not view him as complex: he is a hateful Holocaust denier, plain and simple. He is no different than Eric Hunt or FP Berg in my eyes.

His attempts to mask his hateful bile as "anti-Zionism" doesn't work on me. Anti-Zionism would be making jokes about Bibi or Libermann. He does none of that and prefers to make crude gas chamber jokes and espouse viscous rhetoric against Jews.For me, he is the French Goebbels.

I know a few French Jews. They're nice people, likable, and they all hate DMM, and I don't blame them.



"LA PERE DU MARINE"... lol...

Le Pere de la Marine is a dickhead, and anyone knows it...His daughter knows it too and kicked him out of the Party...
Anyway, i wanted to insist that the way the information is spread is the source of many misunderstanding.
DMM has not become a fascist, he has become a Anti-Semite...there is a difference. But even beyond the Jews, his worst enemy is the governement - whether it was Sarkozy or Holland as president- and the main enemy of all is Prime minister Manuel Valls. So sometimes he goes to a FN meeting to endorse one candidate, but it is all a joke as far as the far right is concerned, believe me. It does not goes beyond the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

In 2004, he did not turned Radical Right at all, he made the mistake to improvise a sketch about a Jewish Settlers in occupied territories...the joke was not funny at all, and it should have been forgotten within second... The "joke" about the gas chamber did take place like 13 years later.

And you would be surprise that many Artists and Comedians, Jews among them, took his defense up to his last few shows: among the most famous in France, there is Alain Chabat which is most famous, Comedian Edouard Baer or journalist Richard Miller, ( even if you probably don't know them), but even a Jewish organization like "L'Union Juive Francaise pour la paix" took his defense...up to a certain point, of course...Just like me...

Again, the problem is how the information is dealt with...
On the English wiki page on DMM, it is immediately said that he was convicted 8 times for AS, and that is true...But what is not said is that it had been sued almost thirty times for the same reasons...
there is a whole story behind...And as i already wrote about it, i am not sure to wanting to start again...

But with the exception of his show "le Mur" (the Wall)- a pure AS {!#%@} -, even since 2004, he made a lot of sketch on various subjects which are still funny...

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Re: Re:

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:21 am

Balsamo wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Balsamo wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
David wrote: Jeff's absurd declaration that Dieudonne "espouses right wing racialist sentiment"


You lying {!#%@}.

DMM was good friends with Jean Marie Le Pen, the French Fascist leader, and expressed support for his policies. He is also quite close with Robert Faurisson. My statement was not an opinion but rather a documented, established fact. It's all a matter of public record - anyone with a computer and half a brain can feel free to check for themselves and find out just how correct I am.

For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.


:lol:
Sorry to be a {!#%@}
:lol:

But your rendition is not totally correct.

I discovered Dieudonne when he was in a duo with Elie Semoun - his Jewish best friend - and that was in 1991. Both were hilarious breaking up taboos, making fun of unpleasant subjects, and the duo reached a huge success. For more than 13 years, Dieudonne was considered by the French media as the most talented and prolific comedian of his time...the honey moon lasted until 2004.
And for my part, i consider him as one of the most talented comedians as well. So i need your shock terrapy!

That being said, that he got lost in his fight again the establishment, and that he got really more than disturbing with his position vs the Jews, is obvious and it is disgraceful. I do not laugh when the jokes hurts my feelings and principles, I did not like his famous show when he invited Faurisson, a show rightly called "J'ai fais le con", which could be translated as "I did a silly thing" or " I have been being stupid" or something like that.

To react to you quote, let me say that DMM has a very complex character (or is one), he just does not understand that most people's perceptions are stuck to the first degree. Actually, DMM fought against the FN in the 90's with success. And to get an understanding, on must keep in mind that there is a PRE 2004 and an AFTER. He clearly switched to the "Dark side", but no one ever mentions the whys and the hows in this sad story.
Reading the english article in wiki, i am almost fascinated by how information loses its substance when traveling abroad.
What i mean is that the info that reached you in Canada or others in the UK or the USA, is only a part of the whole story. But that is how things goes today.
The Quenelle being the best example of it!

So just to explain the two main famous points (JM Le Pen) and Faurisson...
The first provocation with JM Le Pen - godfather of one of his child - took place in 2008. Since one of his sketch (in 2004), he lost all access to the media, so he thought that such a provocation would make talk about him - and damn was he right. To this date, we still don't know if the whole story is true, maybe it is (But Dieudonne being an atheist, and this Godfather thing in France having religious resonance, it is not that important)...anyway he got into the news, and that was what mattered...

By then, he became a Pariah, a real one, and he had this stupid idea to invite on stage maybe the only person who was even more pariah than himself, Faurisson. Provocation again.
And basically, this is how he lost himself, by playing roles to make buzz, well no one really knows who he really is, and as far as i am concerned, i don't care at all. Causes and effects made the rest and led him to insanity...well too bad...
But he did great damages to the image of the french Establishment, that is for sure.

Whatever he was and why he became what he is is a very interesting and complex topic, but the truth is that he has become a true Anti-Semite, and it is a pity to see such a talent wasted in hatred.

Now, i also agree with Statmec, here, we have covered this subject many times, i did anyway, and there is no need for another thread.
As far as the Op is concerned, no one knows what happened in Hong Kong, but most probably he failed to disclose his previous condemnations, and that is enough to prevent anyone from entering a country! the USA are denying visa everyday and so do many other Countries. Maradona was prevented to go to Disneyland with his kids...well too bad...and so what? Another conspiracy?


Balsamo, I was aware of his "normal" period in the 1990's. It seems that he relied a lot on his other half and the consensus is that he lost his way after splitting with Semoun.

As for my posts: It is indeed a matter or fact that since 2004 he has espoused radical far-right racialist sentiment and has closely allied himself with La Pere du Marine. And I do not view him as complex: he is a hateful Holocaust denier, plain and simple. He is no different than Eric Hunt or FP Berg in my eyes.

His attempts to mask his hateful bile as "anti-Zionism" doesn't work on me. Anti-Zionism would be making jokes about Bibi or Libermann. He does none of that and prefers to make crude gas chamber jokes and espouse viscous rhetoric against Jews.For me, he is the French Goebbels.

I know a few French Jews. They're nice people, likable, and they all hate DMM, and I don't blame them.



"LA PERE DU MARINE"... lol...

Le Pere de la Marine is a dickhead, and anyone knows it...His daughter knows it too and kicked him out of the Party...
Anyway, i wanted to insist that the way the information is spread is the source of many misunderstanding.
DMM has not become a fascist, he has become a Anti-Semite...there is a difference. But even beyond the Jews, his worst enemy is the governement - whether it was Sarkozy or Holland as president- and the main enemy of all is Prime minister Manuel Valls. So sometimes he goes to a FN meeting to endorse one candidate, but it is all a joke as far as the far right is concerned, believe me. It does not goes beyond the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

In 2004, he did not turned Radical Right at all, he made the mistake to improvise a sketch about a Jewish Settlers in occupied territories...the joke was not funny at all, and it should have been forgotten within second... The "joke" about the gas chamber did take place like 13 years later.

And you would be surprise that many Artists and Comedians, Jews among them, took his defense up to his last few shows: among the most famous in France, there is Alain Chabat which is most famous, Comedian Edouard Baer or journalist Richard Miller, ( even if you probably don't know them), but even a Jewish organization like "L'Union Juive Francaise pour la paix" took his defense...up to a certain point, of course...Just like me...

Again, the problem is how the information is dealt with...
On the English wiki page on DMM, it is immediately said that he was convicted 8 times for AS, and that is true...But what is not said is that it had been sued almost thirty times for the same reasons...
there is a whole story behind...And as i already wrote about it, i am not sure to wanting to start again...

But with the exception of his show "le Mur" (the Wall)- a pure AS {!#%@} -, even since 2004, he made a lot of sketch on various subjects which are still funny...


I'm sorry, but any dude who hangs around with La Pere Du Marine and Faurisson is a far right antisemite in my book.

Maybe 2004 isn't the date where he turned, but at some point between 2004 and his appearance with Faurisson he became a far right antisemite. I speak decent franglish and can understand French pretty good (but not great by any means) and I watched some clips of one of his more recent shows. It was just hurtful, nasty stuff.

I will also remind you that he was close chums with Ahmadinejad, easily one of the most odious individuals ever. DMM is just pure {!#%@}, stacked however high. He even visited Iran. That if anything exposes him as a hypocrite. One can attack the Israeli settlement project and the occupation as much as you like and it will be warranted, but the Iranians are infinitely worse in every regard and the moment one aligns himself with Tehran he loses his credibility to speak on human rights issues.

He's also a denier too, so that is enough to sink him.

One way or another I have no issue with censuring hate speech. This cockroach is corrupting the Banluies and spreading racism.

I agree that he may not have always been like this (at least not publicly) but the description "far right racialist anti-Semite" easily applies now. JMLP doesn't buddy up with lefties.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby David » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:39 am

Jeff gets the Dumbsh*t Bigot Award of the week with his demented spew against Dieudonne
and his advocacy of censorship and oppression.

It is most sad poor Jeff doesn't even understand what Dieudonne is saying...
"Since we can't live together, let us die together just the
opposite of a "racialist view."

Dieudonne is an iconoclast and has noticed who is getting "screwed over."
There is a insightful article on Bradley Smith Blog

The Establishment seems terrified by Dieudonne, not by his irreverence to Holocaust Belief and support for Palestinian rights, but by his widespread support among the young, and Black and Islamic groups. The standard smear of “Racist” used against Revisionist scholars seems inadequate against the Black Frenchman. The frenzy against Dieudonne rose to a crescendo in 2013 after French footballer Nicolas Anelka was banned for five matches by English football authorities for using a gesture created by Dieudonné that many consider to echo the Nazi salute.

Black, soccer-player, anti-Holocaust Belief, young….the images provoked fear in the Establishment and a string of bannings, lawsuits, and criminal charges smacked Dieudonne in a frantic attempt to stifle his iconoclastic message.


http://codohfounder.com/making-it-harder-to-laugh/

Dieudonne has bumped into a new intolerance with a new set of legal definitions.
Being "too pro-Palestinian" is anti-Semitic per se
Not Believing in the Holocaust is anti-Semitic per se
Not being respectful to the Holocaust Tale (as in thinking it is only a detail) is anti-Semitic per se.

None of this makes Dieudonne really anti-Semitic but it is a useful brush to smear him with.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:56 am

David wrote:It is most sad poor Jeff doesn't even understand what Dieudonne is saying...
"Since we can't live together, let us die together just the opposite of a "racialist view."

Sounds like an out and out threat such as a suicide bomber makes. You see: the civilized world does NOT want to die, together or otherwise, its the suicide bombers and their ilk that are willing to die to gain favor in the afterlife, brain washed and ignorant as they are. Its a religious schism, not a racial one. Rational vs Irrational.

1. Dieudonne has bumped into a new intolerance with a new set of legal definitions. /// Yep, close question on hate speech or speech that leads directly to other people getting killed.

2. Being "too pro-Palestinian" is anti-Semitic per se //// Depends on what you mean by being "too" but probably: not. its what you actually advocate or do that is of concern.

3. Not Believing in the Holocaust is anti-Semitic per se //// Thats correct.

4. Not being respectful to the Holocaust Tale (as in thinking it is only a detail) is anti-Semitic per se. /// Not anti-Semitic, moreso just brain damaged.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:56 am

David wrote:Jeff gets the Dumbsh*t Bigot Award of the week with his demented spew against Dieudonne
and his advocacy of censorship and oppression.


No, that award alreday went to Dieudonne for his insane hateful bile that you think is "comical" for some reason.

It is most sad poor Jeff doesn't even understand what Dieudonne is saying...
"Since we can't live together, let us die together just the
opposite of a "racialist view."


How about "Gas Chambers.....too bad"? Or "Shoahhanna" ?

The Establishment seems terrified by Dieudonne, not by his irreverence to Holocaust Belief and support for Palestinian rights, but by his widespread support among theyoung punk, and Black and Islamic groups.
The standard smear of “Racist” used against Revisionist scholars seems inadequate against the Black Frenchman. The frenzy against Dieudonne rose to a crescendo in 2013 after French footballer Nicolas Anelka was banned for five matches by English football authorities for using a gesture created by Dieudonné that many consider to echo the Nazi salute.

Black, soccer-player, anti-Holocaust Belief, young….the images provoked fear in the Establishment and a string of bannings, lawsuits, and criminal charges smacked Dieudonne in a frantic attempt to stifle his iconoclastic message.[/i]

I suggest that you listen to some of his recent materiel.... Anyone who finds that even remotely funny has serious issues. And he absolutley is a racist in my opinion - look at the people he hangs out with!

Being "too pro-Palestinian" is anti-Semitic per se


So are StatMech, Balsamo, Roberto and to a lesser extent myself antisemetic?

Not Believing in the Holocaust is anti-Semitic per se


Yes, and stupid per grande.

None of this makes Dieudonne really anti-Semitic but it is a useful brush to smear him with.


Bro, even a former fan of his here agrees that he has become a pure anti semite.

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:10 am

Hey David? Quote Dieudonne M’bala M’bala's best comment and show us how insightful and important this person is, that he deserves any attention from you, a holocaust denier.

You can do that can't you?
:)

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Re: Re:

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:02 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:For the record I support the efforts against him 100%. He is a horrific, nauseating human being and his materiel is wretched.

To repeat ourselves, as I promised not to do, here and elsewhere we discussed speech protections for unpopular and even despised views: "(1) the speech restrictions of even the Smith Act (1940) were found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court (in 1957 no less!) despite 10s and 10s of convictions of Communists and Communist sympathizers during the early years of the Cold War (in the '40s the act was used chiefly against labor and Nazi sympathizers, in the '50s to convict Communists) and (2) there is much that I find harmful to society (starting today with the Tea Party in the US, or the Westboro Church as an extreme example, or the hateful advocacy for returning this forum to its old format!) but, insofar as speech rights are concerned, my opinion doesn't govern. That is a good thing, because other people's conclusions about what is harmful to society don't govern what I can advocate in speech or writing either, and thus I am also protected when I find myself having minority and even despised viewpoints (such as 'keep the new forum format') - and everyone is so protected." In the same post I also explained why Brandenburg v Ohio (protecting the speech rights of the KKK) was an improvement on earlier speech standards (I was thinking of Schenck v. United States and Abrams v. United States). I also wrote in the Hebdo thread that "The spirit that the First Amendment speaks to is that minority, offensive viewpoints are legally protected." Horrific, nauseating human beings with wretched material should not be punished for saying horrific, nauseating things in a wretched manner, IMO. But, sigh, as I told David, we've been through all this. And, no, there's not a "Believer" point of view.

A United States federal appeals court ruled, in a case involving a speaker (Trump) who incited a crowd (at one of his pre-election rallies in 2016) and where some in the crowd responded to the incitement with violence against protesters, as follows:
The fact that audience members reacted by using force does not transform Trump’s protected speech into unprotected speech," Judge David McKeague wrote in the court's majority ruling. "The reaction of listeners does not alter the otherwise protected nature of speech."

Another example of the US's expansive views concerning freedom of speech and the First Amendment. According to this federal appeals court, a speaker can incite violence, people can act on the incitement, the suggested violence can occur within minutes of the incitement at the place of the incitement - and yet the speaker is protected because he/she cannot control listeners' reactions.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:00 pm

speaking of which, speech rights that is, the BART on San Fran is accepting adverts from IHR on Holocaust denial
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:29 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:speaking of which, speech rights that is, the BART on San Fran is accepting adverts from IHR on Holocaust denial


Bad link - 404. Can you fix it? This sounds like groundbreaking change if it's really true. So much an indication of the Trump influence being expressed by his followers. That is, if it's really denial?

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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:55 pm

Weird, try this, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... tisemitism - no, neither groundbreaking nor on account of Trump IMO, BART explains that "There is plenty of case law and court rulings that show if you deny the ad, you can be taken to court, and you’ll lose, and that’s obviously costly." It is simply one public agency's reading of the relevant case law. Another agency might take another stance.
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Re: French Comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala

Postby montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Weird, try this, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... tisemitism - no, neither groundbreaking nor on account of Trump IMO, BART explains that "There is plenty of case law and court rulings that show if you deny the ad, you can be taken to court, and you’ll lose, and that’s obviously costly." It is simply one public agency's reading of the relevant case law. Another agency might take another stance.


It's a good thing that freedom of speech is being honored. It's dishonest to call it antisemitism in this case. I'm all for free and open expression of doubts on the holocaust. Not in the case of Muslim hate that's being promoted by Trump and his followers. That's for a different purpose than learning the truth about the holocaust or the truth about anything.

To explain further, I'm not a Jew hater and of course I'm not a holocaust denier. I just think I have to be skeptical because of all the lies and exaggerations that have been pushed by the liars. H.D.'ers. and H.S's. against H.P'ers,

I'm hopeful that some good will come from this. It's a start on dispensing with the demonization project of the H.P.'ers. (those who fit the label)


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