IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:08 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:I make a distinction between a police officer protecting his city and a soldier enforcing an occupation. They are different concepts. One is a guardian, the other an aggressor.


If you don't mind I thought I'd just quote what you just wrote, that way the text doesn't get too long.

What you say is true, however, both are bound by laws, policy and their respective regulations. The occupying soldier is bound by international law as well as treaties, agreements, what have you. The police officer is bound by US law, departmental policy, whatever.
In both cases, my example and what happened with the Israeli soldier, both actions violated those laws, treaties and regulations that bound them both. So, if I'm a police officer and I have a neutralized gang member, I can't just shoot them in the head. I have to Mirandize them, get them medical attention if they need it, make sure they have access to an attorney, whatever. These actions protect the innocent and the guilty and prevent the US from turning into a police state. Same thing with the soldier.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:08 pm

I would call him a terrorist, too (I think I did) but I define terrorism more expansively than politically instrumental acts, I think.

Anyway, in this vein, the political use of terror, Trotsky wrote a paean to terrorism, in reply to Karl Kautsky, and concluded that those who reject terror live in a pitiful, reactionary utopia. He was justifying the Red Terror. I think we have pretty much debased the language and paralyze our thinking by restricting terror to violent acts carried out by those we define as our current worst enemies. Terrorism seems to me to be violence aimed to intimidate, threaten, bully, or terrify civilians or officials or to destabilize political and social institutions and situations or to get revenge for perceived or real wrongs. Terrorism can be practiced by states, by people with legitimate grievances, by people without legitimate grievances, by nut jobs with bizarro grievances, by armies, by small illegal groups. The knife wielder fits as a terrorist.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:10 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:I make a distinction between a police officer protecting his city and a soldier enforcing an occupation. They are different concepts. One is a guardian, the other an aggressor.


If you don't mind I thought I'd just quote what you just wrote, that way the text doesn't get too long.

What you say is true, however, both are bound by laws, policy and their respective regulations. The occupying soldier is bound by international law as well as treaties, agreements, what have you. The police officer is bound by US law, departmental policy, whatever.
In both cases, my example and what happened with the Israeli soldier, both actions violated those laws, treaties and regulations that bound them both. So, if I'm a police officer and I have a neutralized gang member, I can't just shoot them in the head. I have to Mirandize them, get them medical attention if they need it, make sure they have access to an attorney, whatever. These actions protect the innocent and the guilty and prevent the US from turning into a police state. Same thing with the soldier.


You are fundamentally correct. I just think that there are some real scumbags out there.........

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:28 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I would call him a terrorist, too (I think I did) but I define terrorism more expansively than politically instrumental acts, I think.

Anyway, in this vein, the political use of terror, Trotsky wrote a paean to terrorism, in reply to Karl Kautsky, and concluded that those who reject terror live in a pitiful, reactionary utopia. He was justifying the Red Terror. I think we have pretty much debased the language and paralyze our thinking by restricting terror to violent acts carried out by those we define as our current worst enemies. Terrorism seems to me to be violence aimed to intimidate, threaten, bully, or terrify civilians or officials or to destabilize political and social institutions and situations or to get revenge for perceived or real wrongs. Terrorism can be practiced by states, by people with legitimate grievances, by people without legitimate grievances, by nut jobs with bizarro grievances, by armies, by small illegal groups. The knife wielder fits as a terrorist.


Maybe i am wrong - but anyway i like it - but i think the origin of the term "terrorism" and "terrorist" is to be found during the French Revolution, and it was meant to describe the public agents of terror that started to hit the country in 93-94...In those day, the establishment of Revolutionary judicial courts along with "terror laws" as the "Law regarding the Suspects" which stated that anyone denounced for his anti-revolutionary behavior - most of the time anonymously - had to prove their innocence or being sentenced to death. It soon appeared that the only tiny way not to face the guillotine - and to prove one's true loyalty to the Revolution - was to denounce anyone else.

The system was so out of control that those who were the most "terrorist" like HEBERT could be arrested and sentenced to death on the suspicion of being a Monarchist...
Over 100.000 french citizens were executed in 13 months from prominent figure of the Revolution (Hebert, Danton, Desmoulins, and in fine Robespierre himself), to suspect, royalists fighters, christians, woman, children, elderly...

The term was mostly used by those who were fighting this Regime, some by actions which would today be described as "terrorism"...

The term terrorist will also be heavily used by during the "Nazi occupation" to describe the Resistance...

All this to observe that by a funny evolution a term invented to describe criminal behavior by the State and its agents has been reversed to describe any violent opposition to the State - in a logic that we never contested to the Nazi or so it seems - that is we have contested what the Nazi did, but truth is we follow the same method as the definition of "terrorist" is being more and more loosened, so it can hit anyone...bringing the definition back to its origins.

just 5 cents...

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:50 pm

>> we follow the same method as the definition of "terrorist" is being more and more loosened, so it can hit anyone

In the US, at least I think, we more and more use the term increasingly narrowly, to mean just Islamists. So that a terror attack on a Planned Parenthood office is the act of a mentally deranged individual, whilst the mentally deranged individuals who attacked the Boston Marathon were assuredly terrorists.

Much as I detest Trotsky, his book in reply to Kautsky had the virtue at least of calling things by what seem to me their proper names - or at least names that were descriptively meaningful.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:13 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:I'll try to end this debate by sharing this article by Moshe Feiglin, the head of the Israeli Jewish-Liberal party "Zehut".


Feiglin is considered to be on the extreme right in so far as the conflict is concerned and was arrested numerous times during the Rabin years. He is a nutcase.


He is considered an extreme right by people who never actually read what he has to say. His policy in regards to the conflict is a complete annexation of the West Bank and giving full citozenships and rights to Arabs who would declare loyalty to the Jewish state (what we did with Golan Heights and worked pretty well) - and transfering the rest, with LOTS of money BTW.
An TRUE extreme right would be someone like Bentzi Gupstein who just wants to murder all the Arabs in the world.
Feiglin is not a violant nutcase. In the 90s his Zu Arzenu movement was a pillar of non-violant protest inside a sea of right wing violance. He was arrested since his demonstrations often caused the closing of highways and interuption of transportation without permission.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:16 am

Jeff, just so you'll figure out my mindset - I also believe that the Jewish resistance movement against the Brits can be classified as terrorism.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:29 am

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Jeff, just so you'll figure out my mindset - I also believe that the Jewish resistance movement against the Brits can be classified as terrorism.


You may find this interesting:
There were deep ties between the various Jewish terrorist groups and the Polish Government during the 1930's. The Poles armed and trained them in hopes of creating ties between a newly formed Jewish state and Poland. The Poles hoped to ship their Jews to a newly formed Jewish state to gain influence in the region.
It never amounted to anything, the war took care of that.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:43 am

Imagine Poland as a regional super power, lol.
Horrible food, self guilt and shame and no sex what so ever.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:46 am

LOL

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:49 am

Wait, "Poles love guilt-trips and hate sex" is a joke even outside Israel?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:53 am

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Wait, "Poles love guilt-trips and hate sex" is a joke even outside Israel?


There is a long distinguished history of Polish jokes in the States.

Of course I'm Irish so I may have dreamed it during a drunken delirium.... :D

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:57 am

Hey, the drunk sterotype is ours, Russians. In addition all of our males are mobsters, all our women are hookers and we're all good at maths and science, even those who work in lousy jobs ("back in Russia I was a rocket engineer... here I'm a pencil sharpner").
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:16 am

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Jeff, just so you'll figure out my mindset - I also believe that the Jewish resistance movement against the Brits can be classified as terrorism.


The Irgun and the Lehi surely can.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:18 am

Balsamo wrote:The term terrorist will also be heavily used by during the "Nazi occupation" to describe the Resistance...


Considering that this designation was used by the conquering power and their scab-riddled groveling collaborators in Vichy, it has little relevance.

In this instance, the fact that the incident occurred on occupied territory complicates matters. As I sated before he would easily be a terrorist in every sense of the world had it occurred in Israel itself.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:20 am

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Wait, "Poles love guilt-trips and hate sex" is a joke even outside Israel?


In my neck of the woods Poles are mostly stereotyped as being prideful, scrappy, not too smart, and rather drunk :lol:

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:13 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Jeff, just so you'll figure out my mindset - I also believe that the Jewish resistance movement against the Brits can be classified as terrorism.


The Irgun and the Lehi surely can.


Surprised you didn't mention the Ezel. Something tells me you are not a big gan of good ol' Meni.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:28 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Balsamo wrote:The term terrorist will also be heavily used by during the "Nazi occupation" to describe the Resistance...


Considering that this designation was used by the conquering power and their scab-riddled groveling collaborators in Vichy, it has little relevance.

In this instance, the fact that the incident occurred on occupied territory complicates matters. As I sated before he would easily be a terrorist in every sense of the world had it occurred in Israel itself.


You make the destinction between Israel and the occupied territories, but the problem is that for many Arabs - defienatly those who commit terrorist acts - ALL of Israel is an occupied Arab land. They don't see a difference between Tul-Karem, Hebron or east Jerusalem and Haifa, Beersheba or Raanana. And why should they? There's very few cities in Israel that weren't founded on the ruins or at least rose out of Arab Villages. Petah Tikvah used to be Malabas. My hometown of Rosh Pina used to be Jeonee. Hod-Hasharon (the most leftist city in Israel) was Ijllil. People from the outside use the term "illegal occupation" based on UN laws from 1949, but in here, both sides can't say they care. The place where I live was supposed to be a part of the Jewish state accotding to the original partition plan, but to many Arabs I am an illegal settler as well. To them regular Jewish citizens are as much a symbol of the occupation of their lands as soldiers are, they see them as aggressors as well. That's why stabbing a soldier at a checkpoint or bombing up a restrurant in Tel-Aviv should be viewd as the same - they are either both terror acts, or both acts of freedom fighters.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:20 am

By the way, in regards to the Jerusalem attack, according to an initial report at least 5 soldiers sttempted to shoot the terrorist from the fitst moment, those who suppodadly fled the scene actually reyreated at a commander's order to pervent accidential friendly fire.

I take back what I said previously. I'm sure that "The Azaria effect" would have future consequence, but yes, it's not what happened in this certain case.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:03 pm

Fair enough. I will agree to disagree on your prediction. :)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:19 pm

INCE:
You make the destinction between Israel and the occupied territories, but the problem is that for many Arabs - defienatly those who commit terrorist acts - ALL of Israel is an occupied Arab land.


This is true.
But there is also an spread opinion among some Israeli that the "occupied territories" are not occupied, but "disputed"; Most don't see any difference between West and East Jerusalem - there is a law that prohibited the distinction.
In one chat i had, one told me that Arabs - most don't even recognize the term "Palestinian" - should go BACK to Jordan - as if the Palestinians were some kind of emigrants...

The two mindsets - the Palestinians as well as the Israeli - are an impediment to peace.

I agree with you that the Palestinian who was shot by the soldier would probably have attacked a soldier within the legitimate borders of Israel, and i don't mind calling him a terrorist.
No one here blamed anyone for him being shot at - as a result of HIS attack on the soldier.
It is him having been killed while lying wounded that some of us consider being a murder.

Even Terrorists should have some basic rights or to put it the other way soldiers fighting terrorists should be restricted by the common rules of warfare.

JEFF:
Considering that this designation was used by the conquering power and their scab-riddled groveling collaborators in Vichy, it has little relevance.

In this instance, the fact that the incident occurred on occupied territory complicates matters. As I sated before he would easily be a terrorist in every sense of the world had it occurred in Israel itself.


Of course, but don't forget that the government of Vichy - whether we like it or not - was the legitimate government of France ( The USA maintained diplomatic relations with it).

When i mentioned the loosening of the definition, i was not thinking specifically of Israel. Actually i had Europe in mind, specifically France where the State of emergency allows the State to arrest anyone without the approval of a judge, after the last attacks about 1000 people had been arrested on suspicion only, more thousands have been prosecuted through a new law targeting "apology of terrorist acts" (also a new law)...what constitutes an apology is not well defined.

The scary thing is that the trend is global and is probably the biggest threat on civil and political rights.

To end up my allusion to the French Revolution, it is to be noticed that those "terrorists" - that is the former leaders (including Robespierre and around 80 of his political friends - were declared "outlaw" by a decree of the Convention, and therefore executed without trial and defense within 24 hours.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:24 pm

>> France where the State of emergency allows the State to arrest anyone without the approval of a judge . . . The scary thing is that the trend is global and is probably the biggest threat on civil and political rights.

"Terrorism" in the US is a term now used to delegitimize people and organizations like CAIR, which the Gaffney type right wants to have been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood (which is designated a terrorist organization) - this supposed infiltration thus makes CAIR "terrorist" and turns the advocacy group into something dismissible (beyond the pale of debate or discussion) as well as ultimately subject to legal sanctions. Etc. If I call someone a "terrorist" or say someone associates with "terrorists," I have designated them as dangerous Muslims who are outside the bounds of consideration. This trend was evident, despite the recent outpouring of centrist commentary on the wonderful W, with the so-called war on terror.

"Terrorism" is no longer a description of a strategy and actions of specific groups/individuals but a negative term that reaches beyond specific types of actions and rules broad social/political groups out of order. It becomes a tool to use against an opposition.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:53 pm

Belasmo -

"But there is also an spread opinion among some Israeli that the "occupied territories" are not occupied, but "disputed".

Well, technically that's objectively true. Again, in the term "illegal occupation", the law that is refered to is the 1947 partition plan, which as we know was accepted by one side and rejected by the other. As a result, the law was never valid, never put in to place, and thus can't be broken. Other simillar cases like Western Sahara or Ngorno Karbakh are described by UN law as disputed. Also, cliched as at may sound, who was the West Bank occupied from? There was no Palestinian nation back than, the Jotdanians held this place.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:20 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Belasmo -

"But there is also an spread opinion among some Israeli that the "occupied territories" are not occupied, but "disputed".

Well, technically that's objectively true. Again, in the term "illegal occupation", the law that is refered to is the 1947 partition plan, which as we know was accepted by one side and rejected by the other. As a result, the law was never valid, never put in to place, and thus can't be broken. Other simillar cases like Western Sahara or Ngorno Karbakh are described by UN law as disputed. Also, cliched as at may sound, who was the West Bank occupied from? There was no Palestinian nation back than, the Jotdanians held this place.


Well, i know the pro-Israeli argumentation by heart, believe me, and i recognize their right to build up their case. But i do not agree with it, as i consider it to be the result of twisting international norms.
As i wrote before about the "tu quoque" arguments, it is not valid as all those disputes are cases on their own, with their specifics.
The same way, the Israel-Palestine case is one on its own and has its specific like the other.

I could go into the technical, but i don't think the forum is dedicated to that, and i previously chose not to get deeper into the subject with Tallboy.

My position is that in the end both cases and arguments should end up in a International Court, as none of the parties seems to be able to discuss those issues, emotion is just too high. I don't blame one specific responsibility, both parties have some rights and some wrongs. It is just that the two mindsets are unconciliable right now. So a third Party has to enter the scene.
The future of Israel is at stake as i think that the current situation offer no real prospect nor future, or only a nasty one.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Tangential to your last point, Balsamo, I saw polling in the US that for the first time has about equal %'s of respondents sympathizing with Palestinians as with Israel. There is, as you'd expect, a massive partisan divide, so that now Israel is one thing that Americans have split on. that partisan divide is extremely strong.

Josh Marshall (of "John" fame) wrote about US opinion that, to simplify, the sharp drop in sympathy for Israel came around the time of Bibi's speech to Congress, which was "focused in opposition to President Obama and arranged behind his back. That was in March 2015 - a completed unprecedented event. That was the most high profile event in Netanyahu's increasingly open alliance with the Republican party. But it was only one of many. Many are tied to Netanyahu's appointment of Ron Dermer as Ambassador in late 2013. Before Dermer emigrated to Israel he was literally a GOP operative in Washington. It's a way of approaching US politics he's continued as Israeli Ambassador. Obama's second term has also seen Netanyahu and members of his government taking an increasingly contemptuous stance toward Obama and increasingly open alliance with the GOP."

So Marshall argues that he sees signs of the irreconcilability you mention within US politics. Certainly for now the alliance with the GOP will appear to pay off for Netanyahu with Trump as president, but long term . . . "The partisanization of the US-Israel alliance is a great cudgel for the GOP. But it's bad for Israel since it portends an alliance which is hostage to partisan warfare in the United States rather than being stable and bipartisan over time."
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:54 pm

Statmec:

Certainly for now the alliance with the GOP will appear to pay off for Netanyahu with Trump as president, but long term . . .


Very good article on that topic on politico here
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/trump-israel-worst-nightmare-netanyahu-214565

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:33 pm

I read that one a few weeks ago, agree, very good piece, thanks!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:41 am

Ian Hazard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
One additionally disturbing dimension of this murder is that while the authorities plan to charge the shooter, Elor Azraya, simultaneously they "will examine the incidents surrounding the shooting and make a decision as to whether the military authorised the shooting before it occurred, The Jerusalem Post reports" (from The Independent). If this shooting was authorized, it also implicates whoever authorized it rather than, as The Independent implies, exonerates Elor Azraya or relativizes his action. In this case, assuming that the murder was authorized, not only Elor Azraya but also those who authorized this crime should be charged. I will be following this case to see what eventuates - and whether it turns out like a Rahm Emanuel investigation of murder by cop in Chicago.

The story was a major item in The Independent which is where I learned of it.


I think the reactions of the other Israelis to the shooting give the game away. No one attempted to stop that soldier pulling the trigger and afterwards no one so much as blinks an eyelid.

There were Israelis there in civilian clothing. One of whom can be seen putting his fingers in his ears just before the shooting occurs. I am wondering how many of those guys were plain clothes police.

The Israelis certainly appear to have a shoot to kill policy when they don't think there are cameras around, and it is pretty obvious to me this guy will walk after the "investigation" has run its course.


I thought I'd give this a bump, see if Ian is paying attention, see what it feels like to be wrong.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:13 pm

In related news, emboldened by the ascension of the orange ass hat, Netanyahu is approving additional settlements:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/24/middleeast/israel-approves-west-bank-construction/index.html?client=safari

I suspect we will see more incidents of attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians, making it very likely we will see more incidents like the one that sparked this thread.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:49 am

Ian Hazard wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_C25ssc-mU

I expect most of the regulars here will invent excuses to exonerate the shooter of any wrongdoing.


I'm gonna give this a little bump, see if we can get Ian to pop back up again.

Hey, Ian. Why do you think the regulars would invent excuses to exonerate the shooter?

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Xcalibur » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:54 am

Why bother now.... he's an established idiot troll. {!#%@} 'im.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:48 am

I know. But, he does provide some fun now that David decided the Daily Stormer is more important than coming here to educate us poor believers, Mary is busy communicating with aliens and Monstrous is taking a week long sabbatical to bury himself in Metapedia.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:02 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:ldecided the Daily Stormer is more important than coming here to educate us poor believers,
Ryu maybe, he seems to be waiting for the next holocaust article to be published there... Not sure about David though, he seems to be way to busy navigating the streets of Lublin to find his northern enterance at Majdanek.
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:14 am

Lol
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:50 pm

Huh, this is strange. I wouldn't think the Israelis arrested other Israelis for hate crimes. Ian only comes around to troll but maybe he can shed some light on this.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/middleeast/israel-violence/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:21 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Huh, this is strange. I wouldn't think the Israelis arrested other Israelis for hate crimes. Ian only comes around to troll but maybe he can shed some light on this.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/middleeast/israel-violence/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion


He might respond with something like: I guess somebody important in Israel read this article in the Jpost and decided they should start trying to pretend they're doing something to address the problem.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:42 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Huh, this is strange. I wouldn't think the Israelis arrested other Israelis for hate crimes. Ian only comes around to troll but maybe he can shed some light on this.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/middleeast/israel-violence/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion


He might respond with something like: I guess somebody important in Israel read this article in the Jpost and decided they should start trying to pretend they're doing something to address the problem.



Yes, I'm sure that's it...except that the article I posted said that it was a month's long investigation and your article was from last month.

Maybe you should go back to UFOs and leave the adult stuff to us adults.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:15 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Huh, this is strange. I wouldn't think the Israelis arrested other Israelis for hate crimes. Ian only comes around to troll but maybe he can shed some light on this.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/middleeast/israel-violence/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion


He might respond with something like: I guess somebody important in Israel read this article in the Jpost and decided they should start trying to pretend they're doing something to address the problem.



Yes, I'm sure that's it...except that the article I posted said that it was a month's long investigation and your article was from last month.

Maybe you should go back to UFOs and leave the adult stuff to us adults.

Now your job is to explain to us how Israelis being arrested for hate crimes against Palestinians cannot be a reaction to media exposure of the fact that Israelis aren't being arrested for hate crimes against Palestinians.
Thanks from:
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:36 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Huh, this is strange. I wouldn't think the Israelis arrested other Israelis for hate crimes. Ian only comes around to troll but maybe he can shed some light on this.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/middleeast/israel-violence/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion


He might respond with something like: I guess somebody important in Israel read this article in the Jpost and decided they should start trying to pretend they're doing something to address the problem.



Yes, I'm sure that's it...except that the article I posted said that it was a month's long investigation and your article was from last month.

Maybe you should go back to UFOs and leave the adult stuff to us adults.

Now your job is to explain to us how Israelis being arrested for hate crimes against Palestinians cannot be a reaction to media exposure of the fact that Israelis aren't being arrested for hate crimes against Palestinians.


Alex, I'm going to go with "I don't give a {!#%@}" for $400.00.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 18, 2017 4:44 pm

Well, {!#%@}.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/us/new-york-times-square-car-pedestrians/index.html

Here's hoping this was not a London-style terror attack.


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