IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:53 pm

bobbo the pragmatist wrote:absent that, my life conclusion is that Hitler was a bad dude and I'd rather read about people just not quite so evil/self possessed/ahem: unable to interact with people who held different points of view.


Got it, you have not interest in expanding your own understanding of the events which took place. What a waste of time, considering your opponents all have sources for their claims.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:58 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I've made my decision re Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Most Mobsters, Vlad the Impaler and so forth. WE ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME.


Well {!#%@}, since your so informed and have the same level of knowledge as the video wizard Jim Rizoli you can end this pointless 'debate'.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I choose more uplifting and APPLICABLE issues to spend my Four Score and Twenty On.


Really? Then why bother posting here? It seems like you should get more involved in those "uplifting and APPLICABLE issues" considering they don't seem to be any use for you here.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Absolutely nothing wrong with choosing otherwise. An appreciation of FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM.... allows each to choose their own path. Actually---pretentious (and tedious) otherwise.


You seem to have missed everyone's point Bobbo.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I "fear" no psychological damage and what I said wasn't even close: rigor. Words have meaning.


Sure, words have meaning...
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:01 am

DH--you demonstrate ZERO reading comprehension. I'll just paraphrase: You don't have to know much history to understand that Germany did not win WW2 even though they had better tanks.

I challenge you DH: if the question is: Who won WW2==>how much studying of tanks is necessary?

Silly Hoomans.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:03 am

DH: what is everyone else's point? I expressed my understanding just above. One does not appreciate "The German People" by thinking they believed Nazi propaganda. One needs to read more than History to appreciate that....... or are you not interested?
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:16 am

bobbo the pragmatist wrote:You don't have to know much history to understand that Germany did not win WW2 even though they had better tanks.


They didn't have better tanks, they had better tank DOCTRINE. There is a difference.

But, since you've never bothered to study it I'll leave you to your ignorance.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:19 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:DH--you demonstrate ZERO reading comprehension.

Got it, you don't understand what an insult is... I'll note that for future replies.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I'll just paraphrase: You don't have to know much history to understand that Germany did not win WW2 even though they had better tanks.

Ah, so your trying to insult me back. I still await your sources which stand against Terry's glaring post a few pages ago.
Now going away from insults considering your comprehension of them is vague at best.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I challenge you DH: if the question is: Who won WW2==>how much studying of tanks is necessary?
Show me who said the German's won ww2? No one did, you seem to have a failure to understand the big-lie platform which the German's operated on. Their propaganda took advantage of the idea of Jewish Bolshevism and exploited areas where they could claim that Jews wanted to exterminate them. For example:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=552197#p552197
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Silly Hoomans.

Get back to me on the issue when you get out of the wardrobe.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:21 am

"Their propaganda took advantage of the idea of Jewish Bolshevism and exploited areas where they could claim that Jews wanted to exterminate them." /// And the relevant issue is: How many Germans "really" believed that BS? More specifically: enough to contest I'm Not Creative Enough's statement.... or not?
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:25 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:DH: what is everyone else's point? I expressed my understanding just above.

Yeah, and your understanding isn't right. Its completely void of fact.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:One does not appreciate "The German People" by thinking they believed Nazi propaganda.
:lol: Except the others have demonstrated that the Germans (no one said all of them) believed the propaganda. Propaganda, which for sure contributed to the willingness of those committing the atrocities and those involved.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:One needs to read more than History to appreciate that....... or are you not interested?
That's not what your comments here have demonstrated. They have only shown a lack of knowledge.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:30 am

Zero comprehension.....or just a lack of flexibility? What you have posted is irrelevant: like offering balistics studies on German tanks as a deeper understanding of How German won WW2. IE: what the true believers of Nazi Propaganda thought does not axiomatically include they thought the Jews wanted to kill them and it CERTAINLY offers no evidence or much less proof as to what the average ordinary German thought.

think clearly. Rigor.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:36 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Zero comprehension.....or just a lack of flexibility?

Hmm, so I have Zero comprehension of what your saying? Your argument is clearly that you believe the Germans didn't pick up on the propaganda. Something which as I said the evidence does not support.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:What you have posted is irrelevant: like offering balistics studies on German tanks as a deeper understanding of How German won WW2. IE: what the true believers of Nazi Propaganda thought does not axiomatically include they thought the Jews wanted to kill them.

Which has already been explained, you seem to be ignoring that its been demonstrated that the Germans believed it. Its facts vs your fiction.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Its words..... and what words mean.


Got it! So when Robert Lay said on the 3rd of September 1941 that "if we Germans are defeated in this fight then the German people will be exterminated root and branch." He totally didn't mean that the Jews wanted to kill all Germans.
Last edited by Denying-History on Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:40 am

I did slightly change my post you are responding to. Thank you for being direct and engaged.

Hmm, so I have Zero comprehension of what your saying? Your argument is clearly that you believe the Germans didn't pick up on the propaganda. Something which as I said the evidence does not support.
that is my position along with "the evidence" provides so far is off point: like tanks.

Got it! So when Robert Lay said on the 3rd of September 1941 that "if we Germans are defeated in this fight then the German people will be exterminated root and branch." He totally didn't mean that the Jews wanted to kill all Germans.
I readily accept that is what Robert Lay said and thought. Robert Lay is not "the German People."

See the disconnect?
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:43 am

Ha, ha..... I've missed saying this several times now: Germany did LOSE THE WAR: and the German people are still with us. You see: Robert Lay was a PROPAGANDIST. Who really believes them? The majority of people so as to be fairly collectively referred to as the belief of the people?===>Not often, and not the Germans circa the 30's into the 40's.

Why would the Germans be especially and unusually gullible?
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:46 am

Statmec:

you and Balsamo wisely have stayed out of it


My wisdom has nothing to do with it a black out and my inability to understand the points Bobbo is defending is the cause of my silence... :lol:
He seems to be lost in his own semantic fuss...

The subject is interesting though if it is about the penetration of fascist and nazi theories and propaganda among the European population. I am not sure that it was Bobbo intention.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:54 am

It is semantics, but the semantics are quite clear and very simple. Note: I make no demand anyone go read Chomsky or Pinker or the developmental Psychologists or the epistemological linguists. The dictionary really should suffice. EG: in the definition of Germans....you will not find reference to Nazi Propagandists although this point apparently befuddles too many here.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I did slightly change my post you are responding to. Thank you for being direct and engaged.

Hmm, so I have Zero comprehension of what your saying? Your argument is clearly that you believe the Germans didn't pick up on the propaganda. Something which as I said the evidence does not support.
that is my position along with "the evidence" provides so far is off point: like tanks.
WOW! My comprehension was COMPLETE ZERO huh?. :roll:

Your original point however was not that.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:02 am

I've said the same thing right from the start. Your link does not demonstrate otherwise.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:15 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I've said the same thing right from the start. Your link does not demonstrate otherwise.
No Bobbo, it hasn't.

You said it yourself:

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Your quote is a repeat of what has already been said: the extermination of the Aryan people caused by war is NOT SAYING the Jews wanted to kill Germans. Again: Just Look. The words are different.

The notion that in any sense Germans thought the Jews wanted to kill Germans is an artifact of studying the subject for too long and in too much isolation.


Again as a previously stated, not all Germans. But the Nazi's for sure.

Your constant insistence here is pure ignorance. As Nick stated:

Bobbo, you could have had a whole banana had you restricted your criticism of INCE to the Germans/Nazi conflation, but instead you blundered on to act as if the Nazis had never said anything along those lines. Which is hilariously ignorant, because they most certainly did.
This all started from your false interpretation of what ICNE said.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Balsamo » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:It is semantics, but the semantics are quite clear and very simple. Note: I make no demand anyone go read Chomsky or Pinker or the developmental Psychologists or the epistemological linguists. The dictionary really should suffice. EG: in the definition of Germans....you will not find reference to Nazi Propagandists although this point apparently befuddles too many here.


That is what i thought...but i have never read anyone here who implied that all Germans were Nazis. as i see it it all came from a quote in another context (Israel and this soldier) saying very approximately that the Germans felt threatened to be "destroyed" by the Jews ...Well it is bad approximation, but the context should have told you that he never meant that ALL Germans felt like way...

If i say that Americans have elected Trump has their president...i of course don't mean that all Americans cast their vote for him...There would be no need to hold a conference in order to "prove" how wrong i would have been.
I sense that it is exactly what you did. There is no point because again no one is thinking that crap in the first place.

Now, the real subject would have been the penetration of antisemitism in Germany after 12 years of Nazi Regime, and by extension, the penetration of antisemitism on the continental European level which i think is a good topic. But given the way your answer Nick Terry's introduction post which rightly covered those categories of the German society that we know believed - even at various level - the official position of their State, well, your reaction was clearly not an invitation to dig more into this topic.

It is been quite a while i have not seen so many pages wasted on this forum on such a semantic futility

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:25 am

You have it quite right Balsamo.... except the positions are reversed. Thats semantics for you.

Good thing: its all voluntary.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:45 am

Bobbo's Sinking... :sinking:
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:24 am

"Semantic fuss" is such an apt phrase: nice, Balsamo.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:23 am

>> "subject would have been the penetration of antisemitism in Germany after 12 years of Nazi Regime, and by extension, the penetration of antisemitism on the continental European level which i think is a good topic."

I agree with this, too, and I take your comment about the continental level to imply that the subject involves examining the nature of anti-Semitisms. And, although tackling this subject means looking at the state and its propaganda, it is, as you also imply, not reducible to truisms like this one: "One does not appreciate 'The German People' by thinking they believed Nazi propaganda."
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:30 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:"Semantic fuss" is such an apt phrase: nice, Balsamo.


Indeed, it cuts to the chase: if one wanted to come to SSF for semantic arguments, one would go to the Semantic Argument sub forum.

****************

And while we're at it, who the {!#%@} is "Robert Lay", Nazi "propagandist"? :roll:

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:43 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Just crazy. A missed opportunity to blow a criminal bastard away:
Another witness said the suspect [Esteban Santiago] was taken into custody after throwing his empty weapon down and lying spread-eagled on the ground.

The Broward county sheriff, Scott Israel, said the suspect was unharmed after his arrest. “No law enforcement fired shots. He is being interviewed by FBI agents and the sheriff’s office,” he said.

Go figure. You'd think at least one law enforcement officer would have fired a few shots to Santiago's head as he lay there, spread-eagled.


Maybe no one thought he was racist scum.


You're going to remind me of those two words even the day I'll cure cancer, right? :P


If you cure cancer I'll cut you some slack.


have not heard anything about who and why he was given the gun back .
typical shrink , useless , do nothing , paper pushers - wont even bother to try to get him on a do not fly list .
if asked , shrink would hide behind patient confidentiality .
if pressed would think - it aint my job - but wood bee 2 smart 2 say it
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:32 am

Xcalibur wrote:And while we're at it, who the {!#%@} is "Robert Lay", Nazi "propagandist"? :roll:
Robert Lay is the leader of the of the German Labour Front. He committed suicide before the Nuremberg Trial.
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:37 am

Ley
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:09 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ley



Right, I just get tired of translating from Stupid and responding to what "logic {!#%@}' is still doing here, other than trolling the place. And the question of Ley as a "propagandist" might be interesting on another occasion with folks who've actually read something on the topic, but not with this ignorant boring {!#%@}

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:58 am

Xcalibur wrote:Right, I just get tired of translating from Stupid


:? Sorry for {!#%@} up a name for a 2nd time... It's rather minor.

------------

In light of something positive it seems Bobbo may stop adding his input.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Xcalibur » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:19 am

Denying-History wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:Right, I just get tired of translating from Stupid


:? Sorry for {!#%@} up a name for a 2nd time... It's rather minor.

------------

In light of something positive it seems Bobbo may stop adding his input.


Yes. No problem.... other than the logic kommandant got it not.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:51 pm

The quotation from Ley was to the point.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:01 pm

Xcalibur wrote:other than the logic kommandant got it not.

It was a mere artifact of the study of history and thus did not rise to the level at which bobbo the logician would deign to care.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:15 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:You miss the point completley: My point is that because of all the fuss about Azaria's "bad shooting" now makes soldiers too scared to commit clear "good shootings".


The distinction between a good shooting and a bad shooting is very obvious and should not be the source of controversy.

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:35 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Let me ask you a question.

Let's take the same incident but instead of this being a Palestinian and an Israeli soldier let's make it a black gang member from Compton, California and a white police officer.
Same thing. The gang member is lying on the ground and the police officer cocks his rifle (or pistol) and shoots the gang member in the head.

Do you feel the same way?


This sounds awful but I would be more sympathetic to the cop in this case. I cannot tell you why, just a gut feeling I have. (If it was an innocent bystander then it would be murder though).

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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:44 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Off course that the arab terrorist wasn't able to do anything at that moment. But I genually don't care. He was a racist piece of scum who wanted to murder Jews because they were Jews, thus he deserved death no matter if he was able to hurt anyone at that exact moment.


I do not classify the stabber here as a terrorist, sorry. If this had taken place in Haifa, Tel Aviv, Ashdod or Netanya then he absolutely would have been a {!#%@} terrorist and I would understand your point of view. However this was in Hebron, an area outside Israel that is under military occupation.

Let's say you lived in Safed. Let's say Syria occupied Safed and began settling Alawites in and around the city. Let's say you decided to stab some soldiers at a checkpoint. That is not the actions of a terrorist.

None of this is anti-Israel. I must empathize that I would likely be sympathetic to your perspective if this incident had taken place inside Israel instead of in the occupied territories.

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:48 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Let me ask you a question.

Let's take the same incident but instead of this being a Palestinian and an Israeli soldier let's make it a black gang member from Compton, California and a white police officer.
Same thing. The gang member is lying on the ground and the police officer cocks his rifle (or pistol) and shoots the gang member in the head.

Do you feel the same way?


This sounds awful but I would be more sympathetic to the cop in this case. I cannot tell you why, just a gut feeling I have. (If it was an innocent bystander then it would be murder though).


It's still murder and a violation of US law.

I go back to what I said before, I have no sympathy for terrorists. I include in that definition those ass hats that are ambushing police officers. They are terrorists. If they resist arrest and are endangering lives then shooting them is the correct procedure.
But once they are neutralized then a different set of rules kicks in. They are now prisoners and need to be treated as such. I value discipline in soldiers and police officers, if they can't control themselves, if it becomes about revenge and not rule of law, then they are a danger to themselves, their fellow officers/soldiers and the public at large.

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Jeff_36
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:53 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:I'll try to end this debate by sharing this article by Moshe Feiglin, the head of the Israeli Jewish-Liberal party "Zehut".


Feiglin is considered to be on the extreme right in so far as the conflict is concerned and was arrested numerous times during the Rabin years. He is a nutcase.

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:53 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Off course that the arab terrorist wasn't able to do anything at that moment. But I genually don't care. He was a racist piece of scum who wanted to murder Jews because they were Jews, thus he deserved death no matter if he was able to hurt anyone at that exact moment.


I do not classify the stabber here as a terrorist, sorry. If this had taken place in Haifa, Tel Aviv, Ashdod or Netanya then he absolutely would have been a {!#%@} terrorist and I would understand your point of view. However this was in Hebron, an area outside Israel that is under military occupation.

Let's say you lived in Safed. Let's say Syria occupied Safed and began settling Alawites in and around the city. Let's say you decided to stab some soldiers at a checkpoint. That is not the actions of a terrorist.

None of this is anti-Israel. I must empathize that I would likely be sympathetic to your perspective if this incident had taken place inside Israel instead of in the occupied territories.


I actually agree with INCE, I'd classify the offender as a terrorist. They committed a political act by attacking the soldier. INCE also relayed incidents where random attackers hit Israelites with cars or attacked with knives. The incident with the truck hitting the group of soldiers also strikes me as political action.

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Jeff_36
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:54 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Let me ask you a question.

Let's take the same incident but instead of this being a Palestinian and an Israeli soldier let's make it a black gang member from Compton, California and a white police officer.
Same thing. The gang member is lying on the ground and the police officer cocks his rifle (or pistol) and shoots the gang member in the head.

Do you feel the same way?


This sounds awful but I would be more sympathetic to the cop in this case. I cannot tell you why, just a gut feeling I have. (If it was an innocent bystander then it would be murder though).


It's still murder and a violation of US law.

I go back to what I said before, I have no sympathy for terrorists. I include in that definition those ass hats that are ambushing police officers. They are terrorists. If they resist arrest and are endangering lives then shooting them is the correct procedure.
But once they are neutralized then a different set of rules kicks in. They are now prisoners and need to be treated as such. I value discipline in soldiers and police officers, if they can't control themselves, if it becomes about revenge and not rule of law, then they are a danger to themselves, their fellow officers/soldiers and the public at large.


I make a distinction between a police officer protecting his city and a soldier enforcing an occupation. They are different concepts. One is a guardian, the other an aggressor.

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:55 pm

We are seriously spinning the dial today...:lol:

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Jeff_36
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Re: IDF soldier executes unconscious Palestinian

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:56 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Off course that the arab terrorist wasn't able to do anything at that moment. But I genually don't care. He was a racist piece of scum who wanted to murder Jews because they were Jews, thus he deserved death no matter if he was able to hurt anyone at that exact moment.


I do not classify the stabber here as a terrorist, sorry. If this had taken place in Haifa, Tel Aviv, Ashdod or Netanya then he absolutely would have been a {!#%@} terrorist and I would understand your point of view. However this was in Hebron, an area outside Israel that is under military occupation.

Let's say you lived in Safed. Let's say Syria occupied Safed and began settling Alawites in and around the city. Let's say you decided to stab some soldiers at a checkpoint. That is not the actions of a terrorist.

None of this is anti-Israel. I must empathize that I would likely be sympathetic to your perspective if this incident had taken place inside Israel instead of in the occupied territories.


I actually agree with INCE, I'd classify the offender as a terrorist. They committed a political act by attacking the soldier. INCE also relayed incidents where random attackers hit Israelites with cars or attacked with knives. The incident with the truck hitting the group of soldiers also strikes me as political action.


The truck ramming incident, as well as the stabbing in Bersheeba, were clear acts of terrorism in that they occurred inside Israel and were not a reaction against the occupation but an act of aggression against Israeli society. I make a distinction between the two types of actions.


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