General Books/Reading Discussion

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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NathanC
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Mon May 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Denying-History may have mentioned this before, but "The Years of Hunger - Soviet Agriculture 1931-1933" provides a nice, detailed look into the causes of the Soviet Famine of the early to mid 30s. I'm currently reading it right now and it's very informative. It's by R. Davies and Stephen Wheatcroft.

It's interesting to note that, much like how Holocaust Scholars don't waste time by giving denial a platform and thereby "legitimizing" them, Researchers of the USSR and Holodomor like Wheatcroft, Kulchytsky or Roman Serbyn don't waste time by mentioning the "Jewish Bolshevism" nonsense. The only mention as far as I know is a one off mention by Kulchytsky to dismiss it (and the whining about Molotov, Kosior or Stalin's nationalities) as stupid nonsense that misses the point. These fine people have gone through the Soviet Archives in detail when preparing their studies, and know better than to extrapolate or generalize based on the few of these records that involved Jewish people.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:38 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’m getting ready to start Van Pelt’s “The Case for Auschwitz.”


Started this yesterday.

This is really good, it goes into Faurisson’s philosphical underpinnings that led him into becoming a denier.

I’m reading through Irving’s “conversion” into becoming a denier.


It’s been some time since I read Van Pelt’s Report for the Irving/Lipstadt Trial so I don’t have a frame of reference for it and “The Case for Auschwitz” so I don’t how they differ.

I can say that “The Case for Auschwitz” is an excellent book because it helps bring together the bits of information that I’ve collected over the years and bring them into focus. When I am done I will re-read his report, I think a re-read of Pressac is also in order.

This sparked my interest in Auschwitz so I’m hoping to track down additional works on the subject. I’ll glance through this list and see what else is there.


Almost finished with this.....
I decided to re-read Pressac and Van Pelt’s Report.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 21, 2018 7:45 pm

NathanC wrote:Denying-History may have mentioned this before, but "The Years of Hunger - Soviet Agriculture 1931-1933" provides a nice, detailed look into the causes of the Soviet Famine of the early to mid 30s. I'm currently reading it right now and it's very informative. It's by R. Davies and Stephen Wheatcroft.

It's interesting to note that, much like how Holocaust Scholars don't waste time by giving denial a platform and thereby "legitimizing" them, Researchers of the USSR and Holodomor like Wheatcroft, Kulchytsky or Roman Serbyn don't waste time by mentioning the "Jewish Bolshevism" nonsense. The only mention as far as I know is a one off mention by Kulchytsky to dismiss it (and the whining about Molotov, Kosior or Stalin's nationalities) as stupid nonsense that misses the point. These fine people have gone through the Soviet Archives in detail when preparing their studies, and know better than to extrapolate or generalize based on the few of these records that involved Jewish people.


Wheatcrofts study is essential, don't think I ever mentioned it. It's a nessesary read to understand the roots of the famine, while for example this is essential for understanding the famine meets the catagorization of genocide.

Interestingly Serbyn has engaged with denialsit in the past actually, see his article « The Last Stand for Famine Genocide Deniers ».

http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/serbyn/
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 21, 2018 9:35 pm

Another book ordered form the Majdanek Museum:

- Letters from Majdanek. KL Lublin in the Light of Secret Messages (58 pages)
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 23, 2018 3:44 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’m getting ready to start Van Pelt’s “The Case for Auschwitz.”


Started this yesterday.

This is really good, it goes into Faurisson’s philosphical underpinnings that led him into becoming a denier.

I’m reading through Irving’s “conversion” into becoming a denier.


It’s been some time since I read Van Pelt’s Report for the Irving/Lipstadt Trial so I don’t have a frame of reference for it and “The Case for Auschwitz” so I don’t how they differ.

I can say that “The Case for Auschwitz” is an excellent book because it helps bring together the bits of information that I’ve collected over the years and bring them into focus. When I am done I will re-read his report, I think a re-read of Pressac is also in order.

This sparked my interest in Auschwitz so I’m hoping to track down additional works on the subject. I’ll glance through this list and see what else is there.


Almost finished with this.....
I decided to re-read Pressac and Van Pelt’s Report.


Finished this today.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 23, 2018 3:46 am

“The Case for Auschwitz” is an excellent book. If you haven’t read it I consider an important addition to any library.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 24, 2018 3:52 pm

As a switch, I just started a history of the USSR. I think I needed to read something a little different.

I do intend to get “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp” sometime next month.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Fri May 25, 2018 8:27 am

Two orders on the Purge.

- Inventing the Enemy: Denunciation and Terror in Stalin's Russia by Wendy Goldman

(Will be ordering Goldmans other book from 2007 "Terror and Democracy" it is a popular citation for Marxist apologist)

- Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives edited by J Arch Getty

(Have the PDF which is online for free but prints always better)
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 25, 2018 10:49 pm

If the sudden, inexplicable urge to lionize Churchill should ever take hold of you, I suggest reading Mazower's history of the Greek occupation and aftermath; Churchill's machinations - which I'd read of in depth in college (where I had the good fortune to host Andreas Papandreou, before he was PM) - made me want to puke.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm

continuing, I suppose, with the theme of occupation, but moving west, whilst it appears others here are heading east, I plan next to read:

Gildea, Marianne in Chains: Daily Life in the Heart of France during the German Occupation
Burrin, France under the Germans: Collaboration and Compromise
Ousby, Occupation: The Ordeal of France
Rousso, The Vichy Syndrome: History and Memory in France since 1944
Drake, Paris at War, 1939-1944
Mitchell, Nazi Paris: The History of an Occupation, 1940-1944

as I am working somewhat diligently on other stuff (a photo project), this reading list will take some time to complete - it pulls in a number of books that I've had on my must-read list for some time
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 27, 2018 10:56 pm

So far Gildea's book is weird; he keeps arguing (reasonably enough) that "the relations between French and Germans under the occupation cannot be reduced to German oppression confronted by French patriotism," that more than "brutal oppression" needs to be examined in the German occupation of France, and that how things looked in the heroic resistance narrative of 1944 differed to how things were experienced during the occupation.

Sadly, however, Gildea neglects analysis of the framework in which these "other" interactions occurred; he devotes almost no attention to German oppression and the relation of oppressor/oppressed, instead offering up random examples of how German soldiers "came as sexual and gastronomic tourists" as much as an army of occupation and instances of German victimization (on the black market, of local rumor-mongers, at the hands of operators and hustlers - he says of the French and Germans that the continuing war "in one sense made them both its victims").

For example, Gildea explains how German requisition of French assets was to work, formally, without examining how requisitions worked in practice and where coercive power lay and how it was used. In economics, he sees France as the beneficiary of German largesse in war production contracts, "lifting" the country's economy, and argues that the Germans largely respected traditional French practices whilst engaging in modernization efforts such as concentrating production and "eliminating pests and vermins." The worst passage I've read dealt with sexual relations in which Gildea never discusses the power framework imposed by the Germans and arising from the facts of occupation in which French women became involved in various ways with men in the occupying army, some French women turning to prostitution either overtly or covertly. Gildea says that one salutary impact of the occupation was "that the Germans did their bit to tackle France's demographic deficit by fathering between 50,000 and 70,000 children." In fact, he writes, "local girls taken on formally as maids . . . were willing to provide more generous services." With such glib formulas, Gildea fails to establish the context in which diverse kinds of agency, and even probing for breaks, among the occupied population took shape. For Gildea, German men procuring sexual services from women in the defeated population and otherwise taking advantage of the spoils of victory were actually engaging in "amorous pursuits."
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Mon May 28, 2018 2:14 am

I got Logenrich’s Himmler bio based on JeffK and StatMech’s recommendation. I’m liking it so far, but it feels rather dry. I guess it’s because unlike other Biographies (Stagneth, Volker Ullrich and Kotkin), he focuses purely on Himmler’s life story and not the surrounding political environment that shaped it. I guess Logenrich is the exception to my previous observation that German authors like Aly and Stagneth generally have better prose.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 28, 2018 2:36 am

NathanC wrote:I got Logenrich’s Himmler bio based on JeffK and StatMech’s recommendation. I’m liking it so far, but it feels rather dry. I guess it’s because unlike other Biographies (Stagneth, Volker Ullrich and Kotkin), he focuses purely on Himmler’s life story and not the surrounding political environment that shaped it. I guess Logenrich is the exception to my previous observation that German authors like Aly and Stagneth generally have better prose.

Longerich is dry indeed! I have liked all the books of his I've read a great deal (The Unwritten Order, Holocaust, Gobbels bio, Himmler bio which recycles material from Holocaust IIRC - actually, I think that's what he's published!), but they are not lively, to say the least.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon May 28, 2018 2:59 am

NathanC wrote:I got Logenrich’s Himmler bio based on JeffK and StatMech’s recommendation. I’m liking it so far, but it feels rather dry. I guess it’s because unlike other Biographies (Stagneth, Volker Ullrich and Kotkin), he focuses purely on Himmler’s life story and not the surrounding political environment that shaped it. I guess Logenrich is the exception to my previous observation that German authors like Aly and Stagneth generally have better prose.



Oops, sorry, Nathan. I think I gave you the wrong impression, I haven’t read it yet. I intend on getting it. I know Stat Mech recommended it.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 28, 2018 4:13 am

Currently reading:

- The White Generals: An Account of the White Movement and the Russian Civil War

- Stalin: The First In-depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives

- Essays on Revolutionary Culture and Stalinism: Selected Papers from the Third World Congress for Soviet and East European Studies (Has an essay from a prominent Trotskyite historian talking about the Moscow trials in reflection to the evidence from the Trotsky Harvard Archice, well worth the read to anyone interested in the subject.)

Finished recently:

- Majdanek. The Concentration Camp of Lublin
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby BRoI » Tue May 29, 2018 1:11 am

Thanks to SM, I noticed footnote numbering discrepancies between the versions of HC's WP on archive.org and on their blog.

The following is quoted from the archive.org version [p.12]. The highlighted text has been deleted, without any note of amendment, from the edition of the WP on their blog.

The newer works by MGK do not even appear to be read by their fellow deniers, with their works very seldom referred to in discussion forums and in other Revisionist articles. Thomas Kues' own blog partner recently admitted of the Sobibor book, which has been freely available online for more than a year, "I've not read what Messrs. Mattogno, Graf and Kues have written." [21]Internet traffic counters also support the simple fact that only a very small number of people are actually reading MGK's work.

21. See post #10 by Wilfried Heink (aka 'neugierig') of 27.12.2011 in the RODOH discussion thread "Our Holiday Gift to Mattogno, Graf and Kues: The AR Critique," available at
http://rodohforum.vuku.com/sreplv/27582 ... R-Critique.


NOTE: the definitive version of this Critique is in the PDF format. It can be downloaded from the following sources:
Google Docs
Rapidshare
Archive.org
The blog version should be considered as an earlier version.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue May 29, 2018 3:14 am

BRoI wrote:Thanks to SM, I noticed footnote numbering discrepancies between the versions of HC's WP on archive.org and on their blog.

The following is quoted from the archive.org version [p.12]. The highlighted text has been deleted, without any note of amendment, from the edition of the WP on their blog.

The newer works by MGK do not even appear to be read by their fellow deniers, with their works very seldom referred to in discussion forums and in other Revisionist articles. Thomas Kues' own blog partner recently admitted of the Sobibor book, which has been freely available online for more than a year, "I've not read what Messrs. Mattogno, Graf and Kues have written." [21]Internet traffic counters also support the simple fact that only a very small number of people are actually reading MGK's work.

21. See post #10 by Wilfried Heink (aka 'neugierig') of 27.12.2011 in the RODOH discussion thread "Our Holiday Gift to Mattogno, Graf and Kues: The AR Critique," available at
http://rodohforum.vuku.com/sreplv/27582 ... R-Critique.


NOTE: the definitive version of this Critique is in the PDF format. It can be downloaded from the following sources:
Google Docs
Rapidshare
Archive.org
The blog version should be considered as an earlier version.


Try getting a real job.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 29, 2018 11:12 am

"Thanks to SM"?

Anyway, how is material that appears first in the subsequent PDF edition of the White Paper "deleted" from the "earlier version," the version that appeared at HC without that material? It seems that any material that is not in the earlier version would have been added to the later version . . . And what's the fuss about the authors of the White Paper using a general note at the blog, rather than specific callouts to each change, to alert readers to changes made in the "definitive" PDF version vs the blog version?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 30, 2018 2:04 am

ordered tonight:

* Erno Munkácsi, How It Happened: Documenting the Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry 3rd Edition (2018 / 1st Ed. 1944)
* Eva Noack-Mosse, Last Days of Theresienstadt (prisoner diary) (2018)
* Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
* Gabriel Finder & Alexander Prusin, Justice Behind the Iron Curtain: Nazis on Trial in Communist Poland (2018) - actually this is the 2nd time I've ordered this book, I canceled the earlier order when I figured this out . . .

I still have on order Mary Fulbrook's book on postwar justice, Arad's update, and Alex Kay's Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe

I did not order a title written by my graduate school advisor :) (but this omission is balanced out by the fact that over the winter I read a book edited by a graduate school classmate of mine, which was quite good)
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 30, 2018 2:14 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:ordered tonight:

* Erno Munkácsi, How It Happened: Documenting the Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry 3rd Edition (2018 / 1st Ed. 1944)
* Eva Noack-Mosse, Last Days of Theresienstadt (prisoner diary) (2018)
* Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
* Gabriel Finder & Alexander Prusin, Justice Behind the Iron Curtain: Nazis on Trial in Communist Poland (2018) - actually this is the 2nd time I've ordered this book, I canceled the earlier order when I figured this out . . .

I still have on order Mary Fulbrook's book on postwar justice, Arad's update, and Alex Kay's Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe

I did not order a title written by my graduate school advisor :)


Huh. Those look interesting....damnit.

:D

Next up on my list is "Anatomy of An Auschwitz Death Camp," followed by Arad's update. I've got the books from the library, the book on Soviet history and the book on the Einsatzgruppen trials.

Sorry, wabbit, no time for Mattogno.

:lol:
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 30, 2018 3:13 am

Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
Not a bad price......29.99
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Wed May 30, 2018 3:18 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:ordered tonight:

* Erno Munkácsi, How It Happened: Documenting the Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry 3rd Edition (2018 / 1st Ed. 1944)
* Eva Noack-Mosse, Last Days of Theresienstadt (prisoner diary) (2018)
* Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
* Gabriel Finder & Alexander Prusin, Justice Behind the Iron Curtain: Nazis on Trial in Communist Poland (2018) - actually this is the 2nd time I've ordered this book, I canceled the earlier order when I figured this out . . .

I still have on order Mary Fulbrook's book on postwar justice, Arad's update, and Alex Kay's Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe

I did not order a title written by my graduate school advisor :)


Huh. Those look interesting....damnit.

:D

Next up on my list is "Anatomy of An Auschwitz Death Camp," followed by Arad's update. I've got the books from the library, the book on Soviet history and the book on the Einsatzgruppen trials.

Sorry, wabbit, no time for Mattogno.

:lol:


Anatomy is probably better to own then borrow.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Wed May 30, 2018 3:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:ordered tonight:

* Erno Munkácsi, How It Happened: Documenting the Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry 3rd Edition (2018 / 1st Ed. 1944)
* Eva Noack-Mosse, Last Days of Theresienstadt (prisoner diary) (2018)
* Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
* Gabriel Finder & Alexander Prusin, Justice Behind the Iron Curtain: Nazis on Trial in Communist Poland (2018) - actually this is the 2nd time I've ordered this book, I canceled the earlier order when I figured this out . . .

I still have on order Mary Fulbrook's book on postwar justice, Arad's update, and Alex Kay's Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe

I did not order a title written by my graduate school advisor :) (but this omission is balanced out by the fact that over the winter I read a book edited by a graduate school classmate of mine, which was quite good)


Was looking at "How it happened". Will have to get on my next pay check.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 30, 2018 3:23 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:ordered tonight:

* Erno Munkácsi, How It Happened: Documenting the Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry 3rd Edition (2018 / 1st Ed. 1944)
* Eva Noack-Mosse, Last Days of Theresienstadt (prisoner diary) (2018)
* Paul Hanebrink, A Specter Haunting Europe: The Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism (2018)
* Gabriel Finder & Alexander Prusin, Justice Behind the Iron Curtain: Nazis on Trial in Communist Poland (2018) - actually this is the 2nd time I've ordered this book, I canceled the earlier order when I figured this out . . .

I still have on order Mary Fulbrook's book on postwar justice, Arad's update, and Alex Kay's Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe

I did not order a title written by my graduate school advisor :)


Huh. Those look interesting....damnit.

:D

Next up on my list is "Anatomy of An Auschwitz Death Camp," followed by Arad's update. I've got the books from the library, the book on Soviet history and the book on the Einsatzgruppen trials.

Sorry, wabbit, no time for Mattogno.

:lol:


Anatomy is probably better to own then borrow.


Anatomy’s on my purchase list. I’ve got some other books on hold at the library.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 30, 2018 3:28 am

These are the books I have on hold:


Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, got these books on hold at the library:
The History of the Black Hunters by Christian Ingrao
Weimar and Nazi Germany by Robert Carr
The Rising Sun by John Toland



I tossed in the book on Japan but I may dump it if I run out of time.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 30, 2018 10:52 am

I liked Ingrao's book.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 30, 2018 11:27 am

Happy two year anniversary to me!!!!
Wow, joined two years ago. Ah, the innocence of 2016, when all I worried about were Holocaust deniers on the internet.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 31, 2018 1:38 am

Re-reading Pressac and continuing with the history of the USSR.

I told my wife I will order my Father's Day gift, "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp."
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:31 am

When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby mark_gr » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:10 am

What's a good book on Auschwitz

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:These are the books I have on hold:


Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, got these books on hold at the library:
The History of the Black Hunters by Christian Ingrao
Weimar and Nazi Germany by Robert Carr
The Rising Sun by John Toland



I tossed in the book on Japan but I may dump it if I run out of time.


Put this on hold, it's called "The Liberators" by Michael Hirsh. I dumped Toland. It's about U.S. servicemen who liberated the concentration camps.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:57 am

Yesterday I ordered the book referenced (From Empathy to Denial: Arab Responses to the Holocaust) in the Berman piece on Faurisson and Chomsky, which Jeffk linked to . . . I plan to keep reading the occupation of France stuff I listed out but am really eager to get back to the Holocaust . . . with recent orders, I should have a decent list of new titles to read over the next several months . . .
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:35 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
I told my wife I will order my Father's Day gift, "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp."


Ordered, coming in on Thursday.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:06 am

I picked up Oleg Khlevniuk's biography of Stalin. I read most of it while I was on a long flight. It's a good book, and Khlevniuk really makes the most of his position as the head researcher at the Russian Archives. His biography is straight and to the point. Not as detailed or deep as Kotkin or Montefiore, but easier to digest and easier on the back*

*Seriously, Kotkin's Stalin Biography is also a great read. But the hardcover version isn't good for your back. It's almost as thick as Ullrich's very great Hitler Biography, but is heavier and more painful to carry around. I'm beginning to appreciate the benefits of PDFs.

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AP coverage of the Einsatzgruppen prosecutions

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:56 am

This topic came across my news feed this morning (no mention of D-Day in that news feed, by the way---maybe next year, on the 75th anniversary).

But if one German historian is right, AP is the organization best equipped to cover the story. (Probably, most of you were already aware of this. I missed it when the book came out.)
The Internet has democratized the old threat our teachers used to hold over us: "That goes on your permanent record." We knew that was a bluff. The only people whose misdeeds were recorded in indelible ink, back then, were husbands.

But now, thanks to Google, everybody really does have a permanent record. Thanks, Mark Zuckerberg!

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:41 am

I missed that. An uplifting, inspiring little story for a Wednesday morning. But thanks!
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:10 pm

Utopia in Power is good, if a bit old.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:10 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Utopia in Power is good, if a bit old.

Where's Jeff_36? {!#%@} Canadians burned the White House down. He needs to answer for this shite.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:49 pm

Two orders from the Majdanek museum arrived:

"Majdanek in documents" (literal translation)

And "letters from Majdanek" (which was supposed to be ordered in English, museums mistake I guess)

https://twitter.com/denying_history/sta ... 3631866880
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Utopia in Power is good, if a bit old.

Where's Jeff_36? {!#%@} Canadians burned the White House down. He needs to answer for this shite.


LOL, I was just getting to post that:

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.


:rotfl:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
Edith Baneth
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