General Books/Reading Discussion

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:47 pm

I finally finished Weinberg; it was like reading 4 boring books. But very informative so I'm glad I stuck with it, even to the detriment of other reading and the enjoyment of life itself. The final sections covered the campaigns and battles in which my father fought, and where his views of war and American power were formed, giving me a broader perspective on his thoughts than I've previously had.

Now to Auschwitz, which we don't like discussing apparently . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:51 pm

I don't know why, been struggling to get through Hitler: The Ascent. It's good, I'm maybe not in the mood for it.

I will say this, I've learned a lot of different things I wasn't aware of. Ullrich is using a lot of new sources.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:53 pm

Arrived today:

Barbara Engelking, Such a Beautiful Sunny Day: Jews Seeking Refuge in the Polish Countryside, 1942-1945
Randolph L. Braham, The Politics of Genocide: The Holocaust in Hungary, volumes 1 and 2 (over 1800 pages)

Given the ongoing and deep interest in Auschwitz evinced by blake121616161262661 and Monstrous, I will most likely go on to Braham when I am done with what I'm reading now.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:33 am

I think I'll take Braham with me when I go to that country in northern Europe that suffers under Sharia law - begins with an S - favorite foods are semlor, surströmming, and kanelbullar; overrun by ISIL terror squads and crime.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:48 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think I'll take Braham with me when I go to that country in northern Europe that suffers under Sharia law - begins with an S - favorite foods are semlor, surströmming, and kanelbullar; overrun by ISIL terror squads and crime.



Make sure to take Frederick Douglas with you.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:58 am

Douglass is incredibly busy. He's an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice, but he's too busy to come with me. I will, on the other hand, be placing a candle at the Monument to the Heroes of Bowling Green and Sweden Last Night.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:03 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Douglass is incredibly busy. He's an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice, but he's too busy to come with me. I will, on the other hand, be placing a candle at the Monument to the Heroes of Bowling Green and Sweden Last Night.



Take this with you, it will protect you:


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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:06 am

LOL

In Sweden it will probably bring out their fearsome military to take me down :)

She's been quiet lately, eh?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:16 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL

In Sweden it will probably bring out their fearsome military to take me down :)

She's been quiet lately, eh?


Yeah, I think she's on a tight leash.

Too bad, to me she's the best thing to come out of this administration.

:lol:

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:23 am

Her and Melissa McCarthy. :)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:22 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:...overrun by ISILS terror squads and crime.

Sorry, had to ftfy. We're no longer allowed using the 'L' (true, Pendragon sez so!) Probably 'cause Isis is a friend of these guys. And therefore a sworn enema of T. Rump. :paper:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:31 am

I knew. That's why I used ISIL. To mess with them. I almost said "Daesh."
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:16 pm

I finally finished with Hitler: The Ascent.

:shock:

This is not an indictment of the book itself, it is excellent.

I've read many books about the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler. My main criteria when reading something new is did it provide new information/sources or did it use new information from available sources. This book did both.

It took me so long to finish because I was distracted by another book I got from the library that I needed to read, another issue I had is that I don't think I was really in the mood for it.

That being said I enjoyed it and I do recommend it.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:23 pm

Starting Hilberg.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:43 pm

Now that is long! I seem to find myself dipping into Hilberg every week. It is still indispensable. Eager to hear what you think and what gems you dig up ...
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:46 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Now that is long! I seem to find myself dipping into Hilberg every week. It is still indispensable. Eager to hear what you think and what gems you dig up ...


My plan is to read Hilberg, then Cesarani, then Gerlach again to get a comparison.

That should keep me busy for a bit..... :D

Plus I have some other things I want to read.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:00 am

I am definitely going on to Braham. That way I will have a deeper background of the Hungarian Action when we don't discuss Auschwitz. :)

Full disclosure: I read the condensed edition - 328 pp - versus the full version which I will be reading, clocking in at more than 1800 pp. That's even longer than Hilberg - but just on Hungary.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:07 am

I should have posted this here. Mea culpa, I didn't think of it til now:

Here's the digital form of a 2014 book, a publication of the Jewish Museum of Greece, the autobiography of a woman survivor, Lisa Pinhas (1916-1980). The book was published both in Greek and in English, and you can download it for free here.

Lisa Pinhas, A Narrative of Evil, Lisa Pinhas Confronts the Holocaust, published by Jewish Museum of Greece, 2014, English version
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Y87- ... sp=sharing

No need for the forum to worry about copyright issues, they are all solved for this specific digital version of the book.


viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27893

Also:

Appendix to How reliable and authentic is the Broad report - Appendix S Testimonies on Sonderkommando uprising Leon Cohen from the book 'Gideon Greif, We Wept Without Tears, pp 358-359

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Y87- ... sp=sharing
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:05 pm

I'd read a condensed version of Braham's master work on Hungary. Only about 100pp into the completed, updated edition, I already can say that the condensed version pales by comparison. So far, this book is seriously good, with extremely interesting material on the Kun dictatorship, Jews in Hungarian society and the economy, early anti-Semitic legislation in the country, structure-leadership-outlook of Jewish community, background of the Hungarian far right, Hungary's key political issues during the interwar period, and much more.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:30 am

Pursuant to this post, and follow-ups from Ivanesca and me, Nick Terry has posted this updated list of works relevant to our discussion and the number of references in each:
That list more than doubled in size. It's not a comprehensive bibliography, there are many more titles that are not included, I just add to the list because it amuses me to see how many footnotes and endnotes accumulate when one counts them up.

The assumptions are
1) many sources are repeated across the 348 books and their 449,375 footnotes and endnotes, but if they are repeated, then they're more important
2) the literature is so specialised and focused on different camps and regions that the overlap between a book on Lithuania and a book on Auschwitz is marginal, therefore despite repeated citations of some sources like the Wannsee protocol, the 448,375 footnotes and endnotes cite a huge range of evidence, running into 100s of 1000s of sources, covering all aspects of the persecution and mass murder of the Jews from 1933 to 1945.

  1. Poliakov, Harvest of Hate 1951 481 notes
  2. Reitlinger, The Final Solution 1953 1660 notes
  3. Hilberg, Destruction (1961 1st edition) 1961 3413 notes
  4. Levin, The Holocaust 1970 693 notes
  5. Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 1975 598 notes
  6. Hilberg, Destruction (1985 2nd edition) 1985 4329 notes
  7. Gilbert, The Holocaust 1986 2097 notes
  8. Yahil, The Holocaust 1990 1784 notes
  9. Friedlander, Years of Persecution 1997 1147 notes
  10. Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition) 2003 4711 notes
  11. Friedlander, Years of Extermination 2006/7 2431 notes
  12. Bloxham, The Final Solution 2009 557 notes
  13. Longerich, Holocaust 2010 2263 notes
  14. Goda, The Holocaust: Europe, the Jews and the World 2013 1440 notes
  15. Cesarani, Final Solution 2016 1604 notes
  16. Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016 2404 notes
  17. Rees,The Holocaust: A New History 2017 1176 notes
  18. Black, Kaltenbrunner 1984 717 notes
  19. Reuth, Goebbels 1990 (2013) 3157 notes
  20. Breitman, The Architect of Genocide 1991 936 notes
  21. Herbert, Best 2001 1426 notes
  22. Barth, Goebbels und die Juden 2003 1347 notes
  23. Longerich, Himmler 2008 (2012) 3509 notes
  24. Husson, Heydrich et la solution finale 2008/2012 1331 notes
  25. Zelle, Hitlers zweifelnde Elite 2010 1192 notes
  26. Gerwarth, Hitler’s Hangman 2011 1208 notes
  27. Longerich, Goebbels: A Biography 2012 (2015) 4235 notes
  28. Roos, Julius Streicher und Der Stürmer 2014 2465 notes
  29. Longerich, Hitler: Biographie 2015 4800 notes
  30. Kaplan, Between Dignity and Despair 1998 539 notes
  31. Wildt, Hitler’s Volksgemeinschaft 2007 (2011) 858 notes
  32. Steinweis, Kristallnacht 2009 411 notes
  33. Trunk, Judenrat (English) 1972 2029 notes
  34. Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos 2002 2162 notes
  35. Michman, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust 2011 392 notes
  36. Kogon et al, Nazi Mass Murder with Poison Gas 1983 551 notes
  37. Schneppen, Walter Rauff 2011 411 notes
  38. Morsch/Perz (eds), Neue Studien 2011 1249 notes
  39. Adam, Judenpolitik im Dritten Reich 1972 1834 notes
  40. Friedman, Roads to Extinction 1980 1174 notes
  41. L’Allemagne nazie et le genocide juif 1985 1408 notes
  42. Jäckel/Rohwehr (eds), Der Mord an den europäischen Juden 1985 321 notes
  43. Benz (ed), Dimension des Völkermordes 1991 2703 notes
  44. Aly/Heim, Architects of Annihilation 1991 (2002) 987 notes
  45. Cesarani (ed) The Final Solution 1994 850 notes
  46. Aly, Final Solution 1995 982 notes
  47. Manoschek, “Serbien ist judenfrei” 1995 791 notes
  48. Jansen, Der Madagaskar Plan 1997 833 notes
  49. Brechtken, “Madagaskar für die Juden” 1998 1316 notes
  50. Berenbaum/Peck (eds), The Holocaust and History 1998 2036 notes
  51. Herbert (ed), National Socialist Extermination Policies 1998/2000 817 notes
  52. Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers 2000 586 notes
  53. Longerich, The Unwritten Order 2001 456 notes
  54. Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation 2002 2389 notes
  55. Essner, Nürnberger Gesetze 2002 1749 notes
  56. Bankier/Gutman (eds), Nazi Europe and the Final Solution 2003 1205 notes
  57. Roseman, The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting 2003 357 notes
  58. Browning, Origins of the Final Solution 2004 1853 notes
  59. Brayard, La “solution finale de la question juive” 2004 2434 notes
  60. Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries 2005 997 notes
  61. Cüppers, Wegbereiter des Shoahs 2005 1719 notes
  62. Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions 2005 1166 notes
  63. Klemp, Nicht ermittelt 2005/2011 1497 notes
  64. Welzer, Täter 2005 569 notes
  65. Zimmermann (ed), On Germans and Jews under the Nazi Regime 2006 886 notes
  66. Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis 2006 1290 notes
  67. Tooze, Wages of Destruction 2006 2088 notes
  68. Berkowitz, The Crime of My Very Existence 2007 820 notes
  69. Dean, Robbing the Jews 2008 1429 notes
  70. Hoffmann, ‘Das kann man nicht erzählen’ (1005) 2008 1135 notes
  71. Gigliotti, The Train Journey 2009 634 notes
  72. Ingrao, Believe and Destroy 2010 (2013) 1179 notes
  73. Brayard, Auschwitz, enquête sur un complot nazi 2012 1198 notes
  74. Kampe/Klein (eds), Die Wannsee-Konferenz 2013 1150 notes
  75. Confino, A World Without Jews 2014 418 notes
  76. Longerich, Wannseekonferenz 2016 389 notes
  77. Taft, From Victim to Survivor 2013 714 notes
  78. Michman, Holocaust Historiography 2003 1177 notes
  79. Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust 2004 1822 notes
  80. Bankier/Michman (eds), Holocaust Historiography in Context 2008 1284 notes
  81. Engel, Historians of the Jews and the Holocaust 2009 916 notes
  82. Lawson, Debates on the Holocaust 2010 953 notes
  83. Stone, Histories of the Holocaust 2010 926 notes
  84. Stone (ed), The Holocaust and Historical Methodology 2013 865 notes
  85. Feingold, The Politics of Rescue 1970 966 notes
  86. Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe 1979 1135 notes
  87. Laqueur, The Terrible Secret 1980 280 notes
  88. Ross, So It Was True 1980 752 notes
  89. Bauer, American Jewry and the Holocaust 1981 739 notes
  90. Penkower, The Jews Were Expendable 1983 770 notes
  91. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews 1984 1281 notes
  92. Lookstein, Were We Our Brothers’ Keepers? 1985 623 notes
  93. Lipstadt, Beyond Belief 1986 879 notes
  94. Porat, The Blue and Yellow Stars of David 1986 (1990) 538 notes
  95. Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz 1987 911 notes
  96. Koblik, The Stones Cry Out 1988 306 notes
  97. Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust 1988 (1999) 565 notes
  98. Ofer, Escaping the Holocaust 1988 (1990) 868 notes
  99. Kushner, The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination 1990 750 notes
  100. Bankier, The Germans and the Final Solution 1992 609 notes
  101. Bolchover, British Jewry and the Holocaust 1993 (2003) 635 notes
  102. Engel, Facing a Holocaust 1993 903 notes
  103. Haas, Wenn mann gewusst hätte 1994 (1997) 593 notes
  104. Feingold, Bearing Witness to the Holocaust 1995 482 notes
  105. Stola, Nadzieja i zaglada 1995 1140 notes
  106. Levine, From Indifference to Activism 1996 (1998) 859 notes
  107. Rubinstein, The Myth of Rescue 1997 (2000) 626 notes
  108. Friling, Arrows in the Dark 1998 (2005) 2047 notes
  109. Breitman, Official Secrets 1998 752 notes
  110. Sompolinsky, Britain and the Holocaust 1999 988 notes
  111. Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust 2000 969 notes
  112. London, Whitehall and the Jews 2000 925 notes
  113. Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred 2002 620 notes
  114. Zuccotti, Under His Very Windows 2002 1061 notes
  115. Leff, Buried By The Times 2005 876 notes
  116. Mächler, Hilfe und Ohnmacht 2005 608 notes
  117. Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006 842 notes
  118. Bankier (ed), Secret Intelligence and the Holocaust 2006 789 notes
  119. Longerich, ‘Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!’ 2006 1233 notes
  120. Bajohr/Pohl, Massenmord und schlechtes Gewissen 2006 306 notes
  121. Dörner, Die Deutschen und der Holocaust 2007 2265 notes
  122. Hamerow, Why We Watched 2008 442 notes
  123. Puławski, W obliczu Zagłady 2009 2386 notes
  124. Caestecker/Moore (eds), Refugees from Nazi Germany 2010 995 notes
  125. Cohen, Rescue the Perishing 2010 1029 notes
  126. Plesch, America, Hitler and the UN 2011 383 notes
  127. Hurwitz, Jews Without Power 2011 (2015) 1053 notes
  128. Berkhoff, Motherland in Danger 2012 955 notes
  129. Wallance, America’s Soul in the Balance 2012 482 notes
  130. Gorny, The Jewish Press and the Holocaust 2012 624 notes
  131. Lanicek, Czechs, Slovaks and the Jews 2013 1145 notes
  132. Lanicek/Jordan (eds), Governments-in-Exile and the Jews 2013 650 notes
  133. Breitman/Lichtman, FDR and the Jews 2013 868 notes
  134. Medoff, FDR and the Holocaust 2013 314 notes
  135. Segev, World Jewish Congress and Holocaust 2014 474 notes
  136. Medoff, The Anguish of a Jewish Leader 2015 336 notes
  137. Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015 2067 notes
  138. Bloxham, Genocide on Trial 2001 989 notes
  139. Douglas, The Memory of Judgment 2001 465 notes
  140. Weinke, Die Verfolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland 2002 1499 notes
  141. Weindling, Nazi Medicine and the Nuremberg Trials 2004 2189 notes
  142. Hasian, Rhetorical Vectors of Memory 2006 986 notes
  143. Heberer/Matthäus (eds), Atrocities on Trial 2008 886 notes
  144. Weinke, Eine Gesellschaft ermittelt gegen sich selbst 2008 728 notes
  145. Hebert, Hitler’s Generals on Trial 2010 870 notes
  146. Segev, Simon Wiesenthal 2010 1026 notes
  147. Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011 2400 notes
  148. Eichmüller, Keine Generalamnestie 2012 1352 notes
  149. Raim, Justiz zwischen Diktatur und Demokratie 2013 5422 notes
  150. Tisseron, La France et le process de Nuremberg 2014 749 notes
  151. Jockusch/Finder (eds), Jewish Honor Courts 2015 1107 notes
  152. Klee, “Euthanasie” im NS-Staat 1983 1606 notes
  153. Burleigh, Death and Deliverance 1994 972 notes
  154. Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide 1995 1745 notes
  155. Schmidt, Karl Brandt: The Nazi Doctor 2007 1955 notes
  156. Aly, Die Belasteten 2013 454 notes
  157. Streit, Keine Kameraden 1978/1991 1780 notes
  158. Cholawsky, The Jews of Bielorussia during World War II 1982 (1998) 576 notes
  159. Krausnick/Wilhelm, Truppen des Weltanschauungskrieges 1981 2107 notes
  160. Heer/Naumann (eds), Vernichtungskrieg 1995 1482 notes
  161. Manoschek (ed), Die Wehrmacht im Rassenkrieg 1996 412 notes
  162. Ogorreck, Die Einsatzgruppen und die ‘Genesis der Endlösung’ 1996 780 notes
  163. Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde 1999 6309 notes
  164. Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust 2000 1019 notes
  165. Angrick, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord 2003 1933 notes
  166. Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair 2004 1620 notes
  167. Shepherd, War in the Wild East 2004 704 notes
  168. Oldenburg, Ideologie und militärische Kalkül 2004 1299 notes
  169. Kugler, Scherwitz 2004 908 notes
  170. Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews 2005 1508 notes
  171. Lower, Nazi Empire-Building 2005 756 notes
  172. Curilla, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust 2006 8270 notes
  173. Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006 1282 notes
  174. Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006 953 notes
  175. Wrochem, von, Erich von Manstein: Vernichtungskrieg… 2006 (2009) 1795 notes
  176. Huerter, Hitlers Heerfuehrer 2007 2594 notes
  177. Pohl, Die Herrschaft der Wehrmacht 2008 1404 notes
  178. Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine 2008 1105 notes
  179. Epstein, The Minsk Ghetto 2008 389 notes
  180. Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union 2009 1747 notes
  181. Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred 2009 1339 notes
  182. Schneppen, Ghettokommandant in Riga 2009 836 notes
  183. Bauer, The Death of the Shtetl 2009 328 notes
  184. Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial 2009 1352 notes
  185. Hartmann, Wehrmacht im Ostkrieg 2009 4871 notes
  186. Brakel, Unter Rotem Stern und Hakenkreuz 2009 2020 notes
  187. Quinkert, Propaganda und Terror 2009 1920 notes
  188. Hasenclever, Wehrmacht und Besatzungspolitik 2010 3107 notes
  189. Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 2011 6712 notes
  190. Reichelt, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944 2011 1270 notes
  191. Rentrop, Tatorte der ‘Endloesung’ 2011 969 notes
  192. Rein, The Kings and the Pawns 2011 1472 notes
  193. Wette, Karl Jäger 2011 586 notes
  194. Christ, Die Dynamik des Tötens 2011 616 notes
  195. Kilian, Wehrmacht und Besatzungsherrschaft im Nordwesten 2012 2854 notes
  196. Plath, Zwischen Schonung und Menschenjagd 2012 1786 notes
  197. Kay/Rutherford/Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941 2012 1053 notes
  198. Burds, The Holocaust in Rovno 2013 222 notes
  199. Pieper, Fegelein’s Horsemen 2014 811 notes
  200. Tauber, Arbeit als Hoffnung: Jüdische Ghettos in Litauen 1941-1944 2015 3020 notes
  201. Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016 896 notes
  202. Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania 2000 1378 notes
  203. Solonari, Purifying the Nation 2010 1268 notes
  204. Baum, Varianten des Terrors 2011 2595 notes
  205. Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania 2011 1909 notes
  206. Steinhart, The Holocaust and the Germanization of Ukraine 2015 933 notes
  207. Dumitru, The state, antisemitism and collaboration in the Holocaust 2016 1019 notes
  208. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
  209. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
  210. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
  211. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
  212. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
  213. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
  214. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
  215. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
  216. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes
  217. Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw 1982 698 notes
  218. Paulsson, Secret City 2002 547 notes
  219. Levin, Walls Around 2003 (2004) 411 notes
  220. Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007 1193 notes
  221. Engelking/Leociak (eds), Prowincja noc 2007 1986 notes
  222. Libionka/Weinbaum, Bohaterowie, hochsztaplerzy, opisywacze 2011 1512 notes
  223. Klemp, Vernichtung 2013 590 notes
  224. Roth/Schmidt, Judenmord in Ostrów Mazowiecka 2013 332 notes
  225. Seidel, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Polen 2006 2032 notes
  226. Mlynarczyk, Judenmord in Zentralpolen 2007 1338 notes
  227. Browning, Remembering Survival 2010 1449 notes
  228. Crowe, Oskar Schindler 2004 1836 notes
  229. Grabowski, Hunt for the Jews 2011 (2013) 505 notes
  230. Hembera, Die Shoah im Distrikt Krakau (Tarnow) 2016 1548 notes
  231. Browning, Ordinary Men 1992 511 notes
  232. Pohl, Von der “Judenpolitik” zum Judenmord 1993 863 notes
  233. Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung 1999 1384 notes
  234. Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013 748 notes
  235. Pohl, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1996 2153 notes
  236. Sandkühler, “Endlösung” in Galizien 1996 1050 notes
  237. Redlich, Together and Apart in Brzezany 2002 371 notes
  238. Bartov, Erased 2007 190 notes
  239. Struve, Deutsche Herrschaft 2015
  240. Bender, The Jews of Bialystok 1997 (2008) 1018 notes
  241. Gross, Neighbors 2000 (2001) 169 notes
  242. Zbikowski, U genezy Jedwabnego 2006 940 notes
  243. Schwindt, Majdanek 2005 1475 notes
  244. Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2009 (2015) 1408 notes
  245. Lenarcyzk/Libionka (eds), Erntefest 2009 1518 notes
  246. Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland 2003 1100 notes
  247. Böhler, Auftakt zum Vernichtungskrieg 2006 1110 notes
  248. Wardzyńska, Był rok 1939 2009 277 notes
  249. Majer, “Non-Germans” Under the Third Reich 1981 (2013) 3935 notes
  250. Krakowski, The War of the Doomed 1984 565 notes
  251. Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka 1987 688 notes
  252. Tomaszewski/Werbowski, Code Name: Zegota 1994 (2010) 74 notes
  253. Schelvis, Sobibor 1998/2003 662 notes
  254. Housden, Hans Frank and Lebensraum 2003 1411 notes
  255. Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik 2004 463 notes
  256. Musial (ed), Aktion Reinhard 2004 1296 notes
  257. Jockheck, Propaganda im Generalgouvernement 2006 1116 notes
  258. Schenk, Hans Frank 2006 1442 notes
  259. Loose, Kredite für NS-Verbrechen 2007 2023 notes
  260. Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution 2007 744 notes
  261. Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps 2007 551 notes
  262. Roth, Herrenmenschen 2009 1233 notes
  263. Kuwalek, Das Vernichtungslager Belzec 2011/2013 713 notes
  264. Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen 2011 8405 notes
  265. Gross, Golden Harvest 2011 (2012) 180 notes
  266. Żbikowski, Karski 2011 375 notes
  267. Medykowski, W cieniu gigantow 2012 686 notes
  268. Berger, Experten der Vernichtung 2013 1698 notes
  269. Rashke, Useful Enemies 2013 542 notes
  270. Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014 667 notes
  271. Benz, Handlager der SS 2015 1185 notes
  272. Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office 1978 811 notes
  273. Adler, The Jews of Paris and the Final Solution 1985 (1987) 924 notes
  274. Döscher, Das Auswärtige Amt im Dritten Reich 1987 1085 notes
  275. Steinberg, All or Nothing 1990 799 notes
  276. Mazower, Inside Hitler’s Greece 1993 807 notes
  277. Safrian, Eichmann’s Men 1993 (2010) 1109 notes
  278. Moore, Victims and Survivors 1997 914 notes
  279. Poznanski, Jews in France during World War II 1997 (2001) 2446 notes
  280. Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2000 (2002) 787 notes
  281. Rabinovici, Eichmann’s Jews 2000 (2011) 735 notes
  282. Yablonka, The State of Israel vs Adolf Eichmann 2001 (2004) 843 notes
  283. Lafitte, Un engrenage fatal 2003 913 notes
  284. Cesarani, Eichmann 2004 1024 notes
  285. Brunner, Die Frankreich-Komplex 2004 1257 notes
  286. Meyer, Täter im Verhör 2005 1,599 notes
  287. Rothkirchen, The Jews of Bohemia & Moravia 2005 1440 notes
  288. Weitkamp, Braune Diplomaten 2008 2112 notes
  289. Bowman, The Agony of Greek Jewry 2009 760 notes
  290. Moore, Survivors 2010 1508 notes
  291. Meyer, Das Wissen um Auschwitz 2010 556 notes
  292. Seibel, Persecution and Rescue 2010 (2016) 944 notes
  293. Meyer, A Fatal Balancing Act 2011 (2013) 1513 notes
  294. Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2011 (2014) 1406 notes
  295. Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz 2012 873 notes
  296. Wieviorka/Lafitte, A l’intérieur du camp de Drancy 2012 490 notes
  297. Ritz, Schreibtischtäter vor Gericht 2012 743 notes
  298. Meinen, Die Shoah in Belgien 2012 552 notes
  299. Meinen/Meyer, Verfolgt von Land zu Land 2013 660 notes
  300. Gruner, Die Judenverfolgung im Protektorat 2016 1823 notes
  301. Ben-Tov, Facing the Holocaust in Budapest 1988 690 notes
  302. Kranzler, The Man Who Stopped The Trains to Auschwitz 2000 864 notes
  303. Gerlach/Aly, Das letzte Kapitel 2002 1870 notes
  304. Cole, Holocaust City 2003 788 notes
  305. Levine, Raul Wallenberg in Budapest 2010 951 notes
  306. Bogdanor, Kasztner’s Crime 2016 790 notes
  307. Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz 1994 318 notes
  308. Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz 1994 1160 notes
  309. Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 1995/2000 3286 notes
  310. Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz 1996 679 notes
  311. Wagner, IG Auschwitz 2000 1308 notes
  312. Steinbacher, ‘Musterstadt’ Auschwitz 2000 1632 notes
  313. Pelt, van, The Case for Auschwitz 2002 931 notes
  314. Friedler/Siebert/Kilian, Zeugen aus der Todeszone 2002 895 notes
  315. Zürcher, Wir machten die schwarzen Arbeit des Holocaust 2004 839 notes
  316. Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial 2006 1227 notes
  317. Dirks, “Die Verbrechen der anderen” 2006 1275 notes
  318. Knopp, Wir lebten mitten im Tod 2009 380 notes
  319. Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust 2010 1301 notes
  320. Lang, Die Frauen von Block 10 2011 713 notes
  321. Stengel, Hermann Langbein 2012 2219 notes
  322. Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014 847 notes
  323. Greif/Levin, Aufstand in Auschwitz 2015 446 notes
  324. Dobosiewicz, Vernichtungslager Gusen 1977 (2007) 347 notes
  325. Pingel, Häftlinge unter SS-Herrschaft 1978 578 notes
  326. Orth, Das System der nationalsozialistischen KL 1999 1234 notes
  327. Wenck, Zwischen Menschenhandel und “Endlösung” 2000 1461 notes
  328. Schulte, Zwangsarbeit und Vernichtung 2001 1778 notes
  329. Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002 726 notes
  330. Strebel, Das KZ Ravensbrück 2003 2625 notes
  331. Kaienburg, Die Wirtschaft der SS 2003 3688 notes
  332. Steegman, Natzweiler 2005 (2010) 1985 notes
  333. Kaienburg, Der Militär- und Wirtschaftskomplex Oranienburg 2006 1208 notes
  334. Gutternan, A Narrow Bridge to Life 2008 725 notes
  335. Buggeln, Arbeit & Gewalt (translated as Slave Labor) 2009 1976 notes
  336. Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany 2010 675 notes
  337. Blatman, The Death Marches 2011 1836 notes
  338. Weigelt, Judenmord im Reichsgebiet 2011 2388 notes
  339. Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012 616 notes
  340. Adam, Die Arbeiterfrage soll mot Hilfe von KZ-Häftlingen gelöst w.. 2013 1890 notes
  341. Rudorff, Frauen in den Aussenlagern des KL Gross-Rosen 2014 1640 notes
  342. Scheck, Zwangsarbeit und Massensterben 2014 942 notes
  343. Weindling, Victims and Survivors of Nazi Human Expts 2015 1042 notes
  344. Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015 510 notes
  345. Wachsmann, KL 2015 3423 notes
  346. Wünschmann, Before Auschwitz 2015 1069 notes
  347. Stone, The Liberation of the Camps 2015 739 notes
  348. Hördler, Ordnung und Inferno 2015 2086 notes
  349. Dillon, Dachau and the SS 2015 1439 notes

(349 listed, 348 books and collections counted for notes; 215 in English) - 449,375 notes
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:17 pm

Btw, with EtienneSC making the following generally dismissive characterization of scholarship on the extermination of the Jews, I asked him, to start with, to state the rough % of books on Nick Terry's list that he's read and analyzed. Here's EtienneSC's assessment of Holocaust historiography:
Holocaust narratives are more like: "These people were so bad you wouldn't believe it and deserved what they got. Don't be like them! This is the best documented genocide ever." "OK, about these footnotes, where are the documents?" "The Germans destroyed them. That's how cunning they were." "That's not what you said at first...(turns to Germar Rudolf)"

When EtienneSC replies, the obvious follow-ups will be for him (1) to give some examples of works from Nick Terry's compilation that follow the pattern he's claimed, (2) to assess the references in works like Hilberg or Angrick/Klein against his claim, (3) to show how the claimed narrative approach plays out across many works, and (4) to look at other works - ones not on the list (I've already suggested Marek Bem's Sobibór archaeology study or Holocaust Geographies project publications and visualizations) - to prove the claimed pattern (it will be interesting to see what works EtienneSC has in mind as exemplifying his grade-school level characterization).
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:14 pm

Ordered ofr $1tn (936,899,820,000 euros) Ludivine Broch, Ordinary Workers, Vichy and the Holocaust: French Railwaymen and the Second World War; my wife has suggested that I be committed.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby nickterry » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ordered ofr $1tn (936,899,820,000 euros) Ludivine Broch, Ordinary Workers, Vichy and the Holocaust: French Railwaymen and the Second World War; my wife has suggested that I be committed.


I drew the line at that one, then it turned up as an ebook on my university library catalogue.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:23 pm

Ugh. Well, even though supposedly a gloating court historian and academic, I don't have a university to turn to and haven't for decades, sorry Fish :) It's kind of an interest of mine, France and railways and . . . so . . . how about Wouters, Mayoral Collaboration under Nazi Occupation in Belgium, the Netherlands and France, 1938-46, going for about $10bn more, have you looked at that one? - and Zalc on micro histories of the Holocaust (even more expensive ugh)?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby nickterry » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ugh. Well, even though supposedly a gloating court historian and academic, I don't have a university to turn to and haven't for decades, sorry Fish :) It's kind of an interest of mine, France and railways and . . . so . . . how about Wouters, Mayoral Collaboration under Nazi Occupation in Belgium, the Netherlands and France, 1938-46, going for about $10bn more, have you looked at that one? - and Zalc on micro histories of the Holocaust (even more expensive ugh)?


Both are on my wish list, as in I wish they were less expensive.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:51 pm

LOL so does my wife! I think I will spring for them. I think both would provide interesting perspective . . . maybe I will ask EtienneSC his verdict on the pair of books :)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby nickterry » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:16 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL so does my wife! I think I will spring for them. I think both would provide interesting perspective . . . maybe I will ask EtienneSC his verdict on the pair of books :)


:lol:

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Balsamo » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:20 am

nickterry wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ugh. Well, even though supposedly a gloating court historian and academic, I don't have a university to turn to and haven't for decades, sorry Fish :) It's kind of an interest of mine, France and railways and . . . so . . . how about Wouters, Mayoral Collaboration under Nazi Occupation in Belgium, the Netherlands and France, 1938-46, going for about $10bn more, have you looked at that one? - and Zalc on micro histories of the Holocaust (even more expensive ugh)?


Both are on my wish list, as in I wish they were less expensive.


Any idea on how just published history books can be so expensive...It is certainly not because of the subject, who in California cares about the Mayoral collaboration in Belgium, really...?
If you want to learn that indeed some Belgian municipalities decided to name one of their street, "AdolfHitlerstraat" (at least in Flanders), i can tell you which one for free

But seriously, why this inflation?

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:47 am

Prices of scholarly books are astronomical - mostly in the 100USD range these days.

I am guessing that these high prices are due in part to the extremely low sales/print runs of academic titles. Direct costs (editing, design, production, marketing, acquisitions, etc) and fixed costs (G&A and other overhead) are spread over few copies, and printing costs (UMCs) increase per unit with the decreasing size of print runs. The result is that costs per unit of such books are a lot higher than books that sell a large number of copies and which benefit from spreading direct and fixed costs over many copies and have long print runs with lower UMCs. Further, the smaller the house, the worse the picture will be for economies of scale. Btw, royalties are likely not part of this price problem - publishers have whacked at royalties (in a perfect world created by publishers authors wouldn't exist) and in any event royalties are usually a % of revenue, based on units. One other thought, there's a bit of a captive audience that will support high prices, possibly to some extent (libraries) making prices sticky. So academic books should be expected to be pricey - and they meet expectations.

That said, the prices of history books that I purchase seem impressionistically to have skyrocketed - not totally sure why but it might could be smaller and smaller print runs. Print runs dropping from few or even several 1000s to the 100s would have dramatic impact on prices. (In the US, inflation in textbooksbooks and higher education tuition has outpaced even childcare and medical care. But with textbooks, as opposed to academic books and monographs, that is clearly price gouging and profit taking.)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:02 pm

Speaking of prices, I guess it's well known, but just in case someone doesn't, this is a very helpful tool:

http://www.isbns.com.ag/isbn/9781107039568/
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Prices of scholarly books are astronomical - mostly in the 100USD range these days.



:shock: :shock: :shock:

I must've been lucky, then. I bought my copies of KL and EBJ while I was in Canada. They cost me about 20-28 CAD each. Quite hefty, to be sure, but not even close to the 100usd range you mentioned.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:07 pm

NathanC wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Prices of scholarly books are astronomical - mostly in the 100USD range these days.



:shock: :shock: :shock:

I must've been lucky, then. I bought my copies of KL and EBJ while I was in Canada. They cost me about 20-28 CAD each. Quite hefty, to be sure, but not even close to the 100usd range you mentioned.

Ah KL is published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux, a major publisher, not a scholarly press with the kind of limited distribution I mentioned in my post. On Amazon - perhaps as part of their yuuuuge "HD Books Are No More" promotion - it has been reduced from $40.00 to $8.82. Monographs published by academic presses won't sell as many copies as histories like KL or Cesarani's Final Solution (looks to be out of stock at Amazon, with only 3rd party seller copies available) and thus have the high prices mentioned.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:50 am

I've noticed some relatively recent publications from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) which are of possible interest. They are collections of essays on issues we discuss frequently here in SSF

For example, this one, 'Killing Sites, Research and Remembrance', 236 pages, from March 2015.
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/si ... _web_1.pdf

Includes topics as:
- Lea Prais, On Yad Vashem’s Project of Registration and Mapping of Murder Sites of Jews in Nazi-Occupied Territories of the Former Soviet Union
- Michael Schudrich, Jewish Law and Exhumation
- Patrick Desbois, Yahad In Unum’s Research of Mass Grave Sites of Holocaust Victims
- Agnieszka Nieradko, Rabbinical Commission for Jewish Cemeteries in Poland


Another interesting topic: 'Bystanders, Rescuers or Perpetrators The Neutral Countries and the Shoah', from 2015.
I see it discusses all neutral countries, even Argentina (the essay is entitled 'Argentina's Rescue Myth'!)

And 'The Genocide and Persecution of Roma and Sinti, Bibliography and Historiographical Review' by Ilsen About & Anna Abakunova, 150 pages, with over 1400 titles, from 2016.
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/si ... review.pdf

They are all (and may more) free and available online as pdfs or as ebooks:
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/re ... blications
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:03 am

Thanks! That stuff looks fantastic. I'd seen only one of their PDFs previously. Great stuff.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:47 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks! That stuff looks fantastic. I'd seen only one of their PDFs previously. Great stuff.


Statmech, I've browsed them a little, and I saw they are nice serious academic publications from respectable scholars and writers, just like it would be, for example, publications with minutes of important historical conventions or collective volumes on a subject etc. I was surprised by the fact that even if IHRA give them for free, they are of such a quality, isn't it? And they are saying in a commemorative brochure for their 15 years that they plan more like these. Great news (and free of charge, for everyone to have access!)
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Potential new Holocaust denier joins forum.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:34 pm

Howdy everyone.

We have had a new member join the forum, "trustyoursources" claiming a secret space race between Nazi, Russian, Western allies etc etc.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=27936&p=566004#p565837

I'm suspicious he is a holocaust denier as his arguments include "only winners write history"

He has asked us to watch a crank film. I haven't watched it yet.

Enjoy yourselves and do your skeptic duty, ladies and gentlemen.
:D

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:36 am

Has anyone read "The devil's diary" by Robert Wittman and David Kinney? It's about the Rosenberg diaries that HC wrote about some time ago. Can anyone recommend it?
https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Diary-Alf ... 0062319019

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Balsamo » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:45 am

Not this version...
But i did read Rosenberg's diary online...interesting, but frankly not an exiting read. Should be used as a primary source, but it won't reveal anything new to you.
But i am tempted to give this edition a try...and here surprise it is the kindle edition that is the most expensive...go figure.
I guess i will make the sacrifice anyway, so i will be able to give your an advice.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:54 am

NathanC wrote:Has anyone read "The devil's diary" by Robert Wittman and David Kinney? It's about the Rosenberg diaries that HC wrote about some time ago. Can anyone recommend it?
https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Diary-Alf ... 0062319019

I haven't read this book. The edition of Rosenberg's diary published a year or so ago is excellent and has a very strong concluding essay by Jürgen Matthäus and Frank Bajohr, also a section with relevant documents. Evans gave The Devil's Diary a negative review in The Guardian so I decided against it.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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NathanC
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby NathanC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:08 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Evans gave The Devil's Diary a negative review in The Guardian so I decided against it.


good enough for me. I'll pass as well. Thanks.


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