General Books/Reading Discussion

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Jeffk 1970
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:15 pm

Hoping to add more or open a new thread when I finish "Darkness."

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:59 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Yeah, I can't make myself read Irving. I found some PDF's of his books on-line, I just couldn't do it.

I'm with ya. Drips and drabs, a lot of the trial transcripts. His website from time to time.



Me, too. I can take bits and pieces. Reading "Lying about Hitler" told me everything I needed to know.


You should read The Hitler of History by Luckas - a devastating takedown of Irving. Luckas is likely my favorite historian, with Martin Gilbert as a close second. Both have had a massive impact on my historical and political outlook, Luckas more so.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:46 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Yeah, I can't make myself read Irving. I found some PDF's of his books on-line, I just couldn't do it.

I'm with ya. Drips and drabs, a lot of the trial transcripts. His website from time to time.



Me, too. I can take bits and pieces. Reading "Lying about Hitler" told me everything I needed to know.


You should read The Hitler of History by Luckas - a devastating takedown of Irving. Luckas is likely my favorite historian, with Martin Gilbert as a close second. Both have had a massive impact on my historical and political outlook, Luckas more so.


I have Martin Gilbert's Holocaust book.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:50 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Yeah, I can't make myself read Irving. I found some PDF's of his books on-line, I just couldn't do it.

I'm with ya. Drips and drabs, a lot of the trial transcripts. His website from time to time.



Me, too. I can take bits and pieces. Reading "Lying about Hitler" told me everything I needed to know.


You should read The Hitler of History by Luckas - a devastating takedown of Irving. Luckas is likely my favorite historian, with Martin Gilbert as a close second. Both have had a massive impact on my historical and political outlook, Luckas more so.


I have Martin Gilbert's Holocaust book.


I love his Churchill book. I view Gilbert and Luckas as being bastions of historical truth against revisionism and relativism. I was devastated when Gilbert passed away.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:38 pm

About a book, next spring:

- Secret deal? Author hopes Vatican archives shed light on efforts to end Holocaust
https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/ ... holocaust/

Based on evidence gleaned from archives and recorded testimonies, historian Max Wallace claims secret deals, bribes and false promises were used to manipulate Heinrich Himmler over the course of several months in order to get him to shut down Nazi death camps months before the end of World War II, "exploiting his desperate desire for a separate peace with the Western Allies."

ROME - Secret negotiations between Heinrich Himmler - the “architect” of the Holocaust - and a Swiss Catholic politician, hired by a Jewish woman and helped by an Italian papal nuncio, may have contributed to ending the mass extermination of the Jewish people, according to a Canadian researcher.

The general view of most historians is that the Nazis destroyed the death camps to hide the evidence of the millions of people they slaughtered.

But Max Wallace, a Canadian historian, author and filmmaker, believes there is more to the story.

The author also hopes that the full opening of the Vatican archives from that period could shed more light on all the reasons Himmler gave orders to end the systematic slaughter of the Jews in the fall of 1944, many months before the Nazis surrendered to the Allies in May 1945. More specifically, eyewitnesses reported Himmler gave orders to blow up the gas chambers and crematoria of Auschwitz-Birkenau two months before Joseph Stalin’s Red Army stormed the camp gates in January 1945.

The reasons for Himmler’s directives “may very well rewrite the history of the Holocaust,” Wallace wrote in a new book, “In the Name of Humanity. The Secret Deal to End the Holocaust.” The author gave Catholic News Service an advance copy of the book, which is being released by Penguin/Random House Canada August 22 and worldwide in the spring of 2018.

The book is based on the insights of other Holocaust historians and more than 15 years of Wallace’s own research - sifting through thousands of documents in archives around the world, he told Catholic News Service in an interview in July.

Much of the book focuses on the work of Recha and Isaac Sternbuch, the Switzerland-based representatives of Vaad ha-Hatzalah, a rescue committee formed by the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada in 1939 to promote and actively take part in the rescue of Europe’s Jews.

Recha Sternbuch arranged for the rescue of thousands of Jews and she sent important information around the world about their plight using her connections with the Polish and Vatican embassies in Switzerland and the access they gave her to their couriers.

She worked closely with the Vatican nuncio in Bern, Archbishop Filippo Bernardini, who “was very involved with rescue efforts and support,” Wallace said.

It was the archbishop, he said, who introduced Sternbuch to Jean-Marie Musy, a Fascist and fiercely anti-Bolshevik, devout Catholic and former president of Switzerland, whose father-in-law had been a Swiss Guard and a “papal count,” giving him a close connection to the Vatican.

Because Musy knew Himmler and could have great influence over him, Wallace said, Sternbuch quickly enlisted Musy’s help negotiating with the Nazis on the group’s behalf to save the Jews.

Based on evidence gleaned from archives and recorded testimonies, Wallace details the secret deals, bribes and false promises Musy and others used to manipulate Himmler over the course of several months, “exploiting his desperate desire for a separate peace with the Western Allies.”

“Musy and the Sternbuchs exploited this delusion by convincing him that such an alliance (with the Allies) was only possible if he ended the extermination of the Jews,” Wallace said.

The “first significant deal” with the Germans involved freeing Jews in exchange for tractors, a deal that started taking concrete shape in November 1944, he said.

The Germans promised that once the deliveries of tractors began seriously, they would “blow up the facilities at Auschwitz,” Wallace said, citing archival evidence.

A cable dated November 20, 1944, from Sternbuch to the Vaad in New York, says, Musy, “our delegate,” had returned from Berlin with a proposal “for a gradual evacuation of Jews from Germany.”

“In interim secured promise to cease extermination in concentration camps,” the cable reads. “On basis of intervention by nunciature in Bern the German government confirmed this promise to the Vatican.”

Another cable from Sternbuch to the Vaad dated November 22, confirmed that the papal nuncio in Bern “received promise slaughters will cease.”

Three days later, Himmler issued orders to stop the further mass killings of Jews and to destroy the gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz; for Wallace, that may not be a coincidence, but may be linked to the negotiations.

The Nazis destroyed death camps to hide the evidence of their heinous crimes, but that usually was done right before Allied forces closed in, Wallace said; the Soviets were still at least another two months away when the extermination apparatus at Auschwitz was dynamited, and the Nazis left behind there more than 7,000 detainees, who would be crucial eyewitnesses.

While the Holocaust claimed as many as 11 million lives, “the Nazis could have killed all the remaining Jews,” especially as they were losing the war, but negotiators tricked Himmler into preventing the continued slaughter, Wallace said.

“That’s why there are survivors,” he said, estimating that as many as 300,000 Jews may have been saved in efforts linked to the secret negotiations.

While Wallace said there has “never been smoking gun evidence definitely proving Himmler’s motive,” he believes more details or insight might be found in the Vatican Secret Archives.

Documents of Pope Pius XII’s pontificate from 1939 to 1958 have not been opened to scholars, although the Vatican has said for years that it was making the necessary preparations to open them.

A source told CNS in July the preparations have been completed and the archives likely will be opened in 2018. However, Pope Francis must approve the opening and set the date.

Even though Wallace’s book does not focus on the Vatican’s work during the war, he said that with his extensive research, “I saw the efforts of the church behind the scenes and how they were incredibly influential,” especially in saving the remaining Jews in Hungary. “I gained a lot of respect for the Vatican and the church,” said Wallace, who was raised Jewish.

Jesuit Father Gerald Fogarty, an expert in Vatican-American relations, who is completing a book on the United States and the Vatican during World War II, said the nuncio Bernardini is an important figure in history, but there is little documentation about the role he played during the war.

The U.S. priest said he scoured archives wherever the archbishop lived: in Switzerland; Australia; and Washington, D.C., where he taught canon law at The Catholic University of America and was adviser to the apostolic delegation in Washington for 25 years.

Being posted in a neutral country meant Bernardini had regular contact with representatives of the Axis powers and Allied nations, giving him not only access to important information, but also the possibility of relaying messages between the two powers, according to archival research Fogarty sent to CNS.

The Vatican’s policy was and continues to be “impartiality, not neutrality,” which means “working both sides” in world affairs, the Jesuit said.

The eventual opening of the Vatican’s archives for the World War II period, he added, will be extremely helpful for researchers.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:50 am

This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:06 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


I ordered a copy a long time ago. I have some doubts about the book though, as I have reason to suspect that she may cite the monstrocity of Kaganovich's "first biography" (the wolf of the kremlin). It's not good evidence but it's evidence enough to make me worry.

More recently though I have been looking at Furrs interpretation about a quote from Molotov remembers:

Original:

- В писатель ской среде говорят о том, что голод 1933 года был специально организован Сталиным и всем вашим руководством.

- (Molotov) Это говорит враги коммунизма! Это враги коммунизма. Не вполне сознательные люди. Не ВПОЛНе сознательные ...

Нет, тут уж руки не должны, поджилки не должны дрожать, а кого кого задрожат — берегись! Зашибем! Вот дело в чем. Вот в этом дело. А у вас все — давай готовенькое! Вы как дети. Подавляющее большинство теперешних коммунистов пришли на готовое, и только давай все, чтоб у нас хорошо было в вот это главное. А это не главное.

Найдутся люди, которые займутся этим найдутся такие люди. Борьба с мещанским наследием должна быть беспощадной. Не улучшается жизнь — Это не социализм, но даже если жизнь улучшится из года в год в течение определенного периода, но не укрепляешь основы социализма, неизбежно придем к краху

- Но ведь чуть ли не 12 миллионов погибло от голода в 1933-м ...

- Я считаю, эти факты не доказаны утверждает Молотов.

- Не доказаны? ...

- Нет, нет, ни в коем случае. Мне приходилось в эти годы ездить на хлебозаготовки. Так что я не мог пройти мимо таких вещей. Не мог. Я тогда побывал на Украине два раза на хлебозаготовках, в Сычево, на Урале был, в Сибири — как же, я ничего не видел, что ли? Абсурд! Нет, это абсурд. На Волге мне не пришлось быть. Там, возможно, было хуже. Конечно, посылали меня туда, где можно хлеб заготовить.

Нет, это преувеличение, но такие факты, конечно, в некоторых местах были. Тяжкий был ГОД.

English Edition:

- Among writers, some say the famine of 1933 was deliberately organized by Stalin and the whole of your leadership.

- Enemies of communism say that! [..]

- But nearly twelve million perished of hunger in 1933 ....

- The figures have not been substantiated.

- Not substantiated?

- No, no, not at all. In those years I was out in the country on grain procurement trips. Those things couldn’t have just escaped me. They simply couldn’t. I twice traveled to the Ukraine. I visited Sychevo in the Urals and some places in Siberia. Of course I saw nothing of the kind there. Those allegations are absurd! Absurd! True, I did not have occasion to visit the Volga region. It is possible that people were worse off there. Of course I was sent where it was possible to procure grain.

No, these figures are an exaggeration, though such deaths had been reported of course in some places. It was a year of terrible hardships.


Hope the quotes not too extensive for the Rules, it's less then two pages.

But simply Furr has attacked Shapoval to marking the following analysis:

Original: Das ist tatsächlich absurd, denn auf der Sitzung des Politbüros des ZK der VKP(B) am 3. August 1932 sagte niemand anderes als Molotov: „Wir stehen tatsächlich vor dem Gespenst einer Hungersnot, und zwar in den reichen Getreiderayons.“

Die Jahre sind dahingegangen, und einer der „Stalinschen Adler“ glaubte so sehr an die offizielle Unwahrheit, in die über lange Jahrzehnte die Ereignisse vom Beginn der 1930er Jahre gehüllt waren, daß er mit sich selbst in Widerspruch geriet. Die offizielle Propaganda und Statistik in der UdSSR nämlich verschwieg nicht nur das Ausmaß des Hungers zu Beginn der 1930er Jahre, sondern bemühte sich, selbst das Wort „Hunger“ nicht zu benutzen und statt dessen von „Nichterfassung von Todesfällen“ zu sprechen...

Translated: This is indeed absurd, because at the meeting of the Political Bureau of the CCP (B) on 3 August 1932, no one else except Molotov said: "We are indeed facing the spector of a famine, and particularly in the rich grain regions."

The years had passed, one of the "Stalinian eagles" believed so much in the official untruth, to which the events of the early 1930s had been veiled for a long time. The official propaganda and statistics in the USSR not only ignored the extent of hunger at the beginning of the 1930s, but tried not to use even the word "hunger" and instead to speak of "no case of death"...
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:29 am

Denying-History wrote:I ordered a copy a long time ago. I have some doubts about the book though, as I have reason to suspect that she may cite the monstrocity of Kaganovich's "first biography" (the wolf of the kremlin). It's not good evidence but it's evidence enough to make me worry.


"The Wolf in the Kremlin" was {!#%@}. A blatant fabrication. The author stated that he and Kaganovich had conversed in Yiddish, but every source anywhere indicates that Kaganovich had lost most of his Yiddish by 1917 and had basically forgotten how to speak the language by 1945.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:30 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:About a book, next spring:

- Secret deal? Author hopes Vatican archives shed light on efforts to end Holocaust
https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/ ... holocaust/

Based on evidence gleaned from archives and recorded testimonies, historian Max Wallace claims secret deals, bribes and false promises were used to manipulate Heinrich Himmler over the course of several months in order to get him to shut down Nazi death camps months before the end of World War II, "exploiting his desperate desire for a separate peace with the Western Allies."

ROME - Secret negotiations between Heinrich Himmler - the “architect” of the Holocaust - and a Swiss Catholic politician, hired by a Jewish woman and helped by an Italian papal nuncio, may have contributed to ending the mass extermination of the Jewish people, according to a Canadian researcher.

The general view of most historians is that the Nazis destroyed the death camps to hide the evidence of the millions of people they slaughtered.

But Max Wallace, a Canadian historian, author and filmmaker, believes there is more to the story.

The author also hopes that the full opening of the Vatican archives from that period could shed more light on all the reasons Himmler gave orders to end the systematic slaughter of the Jews in the fall of 1944, many months before the Nazis surrendered to the Allies in May 1945. More specifically, eyewitnesses reported Himmler gave orders to blow up the gas chambers and crematoria of Auschwitz-Birkenau two months before Joseph Stalin’s Red Army stormed the camp gates in January 1945.

The reasons for Himmler’s directives “may very well rewrite the history of the Holocaust,” Wallace wrote in a new book, “In the Name of Humanity. The Secret Deal to End the Holocaust.” The author gave Catholic News Service an advance copy of the book, which is being released by Penguin/Random House Canada August 22 and worldwide in the spring of 2018.

The book is based on the insights of other Holocaust historians and more than 15 years of Wallace’s own research - sifting through thousands of documents in archives around the world, he told Catholic News Service in an interview in July.

Much of the book focuses on the work of Recha and Isaac Sternbuch, the Switzerland-based representatives of Vaad ha-Hatzalah, a rescue committee formed by the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada in 1939 to promote and actively take part in the rescue of Europe’s Jews.

Recha Sternbuch arranged for the rescue of thousands of Jews and she sent important information around the world about their plight using her connections with the Polish and Vatican embassies in Switzerland and the access they gave her to their couriers.

She worked closely with the Vatican nuncio in Bern, Archbishop Filippo Bernardini, who “was very involved with rescue efforts and support,” Wallace said.

It was the archbishop, he said, who introduced Sternbuch to Jean-Marie Musy, a Fascist and fiercely anti-Bolshevik, devout Catholic and former president of Switzerland, whose father-in-law had been a Swiss Guard and a “papal count,” giving him a close connection to the Vatican.

Because Musy knew Himmler and could have great influence over him, Wallace said, Sternbuch quickly enlisted Musy’s help negotiating with the Nazis on the group’s behalf to save the Jews.

Based on evidence gleaned from archives and recorded testimonies, Wallace details the secret deals, bribes and false promises Musy and others used to manipulate Himmler over the course of several months, “exploiting his desperate desire for a separate peace with the Western Allies.”

“Musy and the Sternbuchs exploited this delusion by convincing him that such an alliance (with the Allies) was only possible if he ended the extermination of the Jews,” Wallace said.

The “first significant deal” with the Germans involved freeing Jews in exchange for tractors, a deal that started taking concrete shape in November 1944, he said.

The Germans promised that once the deliveries of tractors began seriously, they would “blow up the facilities at Auschwitz,” Wallace said, citing archival evidence.

A cable dated November 20, 1944, from Sternbuch to the Vaad in New York, says, Musy, “our delegate,” had returned from Berlin with a proposal “for a gradual evacuation of Jews from Germany.”

“In interim secured promise to cease extermination in concentration camps,” the cable reads. “On basis of intervention by nunciature in Bern the German government confirmed this promise to the Vatican.”

Another cable from Sternbuch to the Vaad dated November 22, confirmed that the papal nuncio in Bern “received promise slaughters will cease.”

Three days later, Himmler issued orders to stop the further mass killings of Jews and to destroy the gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz; for Wallace, that may not be a coincidence, but may be linked to the negotiations.

The Nazis destroyed death camps to hide the evidence of their heinous crimes, but that usually was done right before Allied forces closed in, Wallace said; the Soviets were still at least another two months away when the extermination apparatus at Auschwitz was dynamited, and the Nazis left behind there more than 7,000 detainees, who would be crucial eyewitnesses.

While the Holocaust claimed as many as 11 million lives, “the Nazis could have killed all the remaining Jews,” especially as they were losing the war, but negotiators tricked Himmler into preventing the continued slaughter, Wallace said.

“That’s why there are survivors,” he said, estimating that as many as 300,000 Jews may have been saved in efforts linked to the secret negotiations.

While Wallace said there has “never been smoking gun evidence definitely proving Himmler’s motive,” he believes more details or insight might be found in the Vatican Secret Archives.

Documents of Pope Pius XII’s pontificate from 1939 to 1958 have not been opened to scholars, although the Vatican has said for years that it was making the necessary preparations to open them.

A source told CNS in July the preparations have been completed and the archives likely will be opened in 2018. However, Pope Francis must approve the opening and set the date.

Even though Wallace’s book does not focus on the Vatican’s work during the war, he said that with his extensive research, “I saw the efforts of the church behind the scenes and how they were incredibly influential,” especially in saving the remaining Jews in Hungary. “I gained a lot of respect for the Vatican and the church,” said Wallace, who was raised Jewish.

Jesuit Father Gerald Fogarty, an expert in Vatican-American relations, who is completing a book on the United States and the Vatican during World War II, said the nuncio Bernardini is an important figure in history, but there is little documentation about the role he played during the war.

The U.S. priest said he scoured archives wherever the archbishop lived: in Switzerland; Australia; and Washington, D.C., where he taught canon law at The Catholic University of America and was adviser to the apostolic delegation in Washington for 25 years.

Being posted in a neutral country meant Bernardini had regular contact with representatives of the Axis powers and Allied nations, giving him not only access to important information, but also the possibility of relaying messages between the two powers, according to archival research Fogarty sent to CNS.

The Vatican’s policy was and continues to be “impartiality, not neutrality,” which means “working both sides” in world affairs, the Jesuit said.

The eventual opening of the Vatican’s archives for the World War II period, he added, will be extremely helpful for researchers.


These cables are massive evidence for the Holocaust (the Hungarian phase and the gassings afterwords anyway) and they warrant a post in the main forum.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:32 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:I ordered a copy a long time ago. I have some doubts about the book though, as I have reason to suspect that she may cite the monstrocity of Kaganovich's "first biography" (the wolf of the kremlin). It's not good evidence but it's evidence enough to make me worry.


"The Wolf in the Kremlin" was {!#%@}. A blatant fabrication. The author stated that he and Kaganovich had conversed in Yiddish, but every source anywhere indicates that Kaganovich had lost most of his Yiddish by 1917 and had basically forgotten how to speak the language by 1945.


I'm more then aware, the book also claims that Kaganovich committed Pogroms. It's filled with a bunch of absurd folly, but of course some people cannot even look at even the Wiki page to find out that the book is BS.

Side note, I believe it was his grandfather or maybe father who was the person who spoke with Kaganovich, not the actual author.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:34 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:I ordered a copy a long time ago. I have some doubts about the book though, as I have reason to suspect that she may cite the monstrocity of Kaganovich's "first biography" (the wolf of the kremlin). It's not good evidence but it's evidence enough to make me worry.


"The Wolf in the Kremlin" was {!#%@}. A blatant fabrication. The author stated that he and Kaganovich had conversed in Yiddish, but every source anywhere indicates that Kaganovich had lost most of his Yiddish by 1917 and had basically forgotten how to speak the language by 1945.


I'm more then aware, the book also claims that Kaganovich committed Pogroms. It's filled with a bunch of absurd folly, but of course some people cannot even look at even the Wiki page to find out that the book is BS.


He did sign off on Stalin's antisemitic measures in 1952 or 53. And he did enact quotas on Jewish admission to Universities in the Ukraine. But no pogroms. That was Budenyy.......

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:36 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:I ordered a copy a long time ago. I have some doubts about the book though, as I have reason to suspect that she may cite the monstrocity of Kaganovich's "first biography" (the wolf of the kremlin). It's not good evidence but it's evidence enough to make me worry.


"The Wolf in the Kremlin" was {!#%@}. A blatant fabrication. The author stated that he and Kaganovich had conversed in Yiddish, but every source anywhere indicates that Kaganovich had lost most of his Yiddish by 1917 and had basically forgotten how to speak the language by 1945.


I'm more then aware, the book also claims that Kaganovich committed Pogroms. It's filled with a bunch of absurd folly, but of course some people cannot even look at even the Wiki page to find out that the book is BS.


He did sign off on Stalin's antisemitic measures in 1952 or 53. And he did enact quotas on Jewish admission to Universities in the Ukraine. But no pogroms. That was Budenyy.......


Most writings from more serious authors maybe with the exception of Robert Conquest point the 1953 plot being Anti-Zionist in nature.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:55 am

Jeff_36 wrote:These cables are massive evidence for the Holocaust (the Hungarian phase and the gassings afterwords anyway) and they warrant a post in the main forum.


I made it as a separate thread, thank you!

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Denying-History » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:12 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:26 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review


I'll probably still get it, along with another book on the Russian Revolution:

"The house of government a saga of the Russian Revolution"

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:46 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Picked up two books, Commandment of Auschwitz.


Started this today.

I read it at the University, it's probably been about 20 years. It's short, I'm thankful for that.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:00 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review


I'll probably still get it, along with another book on the Russian Revolution:

"The house of government a saga of the Russian Revolution"

If you are on a USSR binge, I highly recommend Court of the Red Czar by Montifore. It's highly informative and would make one hell on an HBO series.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:15 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review


I'll probably still get it, along with another book on the Russian Revolution:

"The house of government a saga of the Russian Revolution"

If you are on a USSR binge, I highly recommend Court of the Red Czar by Montifore. It's highly informative and would make one hell on an HBO series.


I read that one a couple of years ago, you are right, it's great.

I'm sort of swapping back and forth between subjects right now. I'm finishing up with Commandant, it's relatively short. I've got that one for the treadmill. I'm reading Bullock's book on Hitler and Stalin while on lunch at work.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:09 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review


I'll probably still get it, along with another book on the Russian Revolution:

"The house of government a saga of the Russian Revolution"

If you are on a USSR binge, I highly recommend Court of the Red Czar by Montifore. It's highly informative and would make one hell on an HBO series.


I read that one a couple of years ago, you are right, it's great.

I'm sort of swapping back and forth between subjects right now. I'm finishing up with Commandant, it's relatively short. I've got that one for the treadmill. I'm reading Bullock's book on Hitler and Stalin while on lunch at work.


OY VEY, not much of a treadmill book eh!?!?!??!? I mean, I'm not judging, but my treadmill books tend to be about subjects that I am cheerfully uninformed about (like the Spanish Civil War) or topics that interest me deeply but don't get me emotionally involved (like Trump/US politics in general). Books on the Holocaust or anything to do with revisionism are hard, serious reads for me. I admire your ability to consume such info so easily.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:26 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:This will be of interest to Denying-History:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Famine-Stalins-War-Ukraine/dp/0385538855


Probably ask for this for Christmas.


Looks like my fears have gotten worse:

The book has one odd quirk, namely its citation practice. As far as I can see, Applebaum has not worked in archives for this book (although she did for Gulag). Her footnotes are bulging with archival citations, however, because every time she quotes something from a secondary source that has an archival reference, she gives that as well – and then lists all these archives among the primary sources in her bibliography. This is not normal scholarly practice, though graduate students sometimes do it for effect before they learn better. But given that she was writing a popular history on a topic on which there is an abundance of recently published documents, memoirs and scholarly studies, there was no need for her to do original archival work in order to produce, as she has done, a vivid and informative account of the Ukrainian famine.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/red-famine-stalins-war-on-ukraine-anne-applebaum-review


I'll probably still get it, along with another book on the Russian Revolution:

"The house of government a saga of the Russian Revolution"

If you are on a USSR binge, I highly recommend Court of the Red Czar by Montifore. It's highly informative and would make one hell on an HBO series.


I read that one a couple of years ago, you are right, it's great.

I'm sort of swapping back and forth between subjects right now. I'm finishing up with Commandant, it's relatively short. I've got that one for the treadmill. I'm reading Bullock's book on Hitler and Stalin while on lunch at work.


OY VEY, not much of a treadmill book eh!?!?!??!? I mean, I'm not judging, but my treadmill books tend to be about subjects that I am cheerfully uninformed about (like the Spanish Civil War) or topics that interest me deeply but don't get me emotionally involved (like Trump/US politics in general). Books on the Holocaust or anything to do with revisionism are hard, serious reads for me. I admire your ability to consume such info so easily.



It's because I'm a cold-hearted believer.... :lol:

For some reason I do fine with books like that while on the treadmill. It also helps when it really focuses my attention on something besides the treadmill. I honestly prefer weights but it's hard to do that and read.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:23 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Of possible interest,

- Remember Malmedy: The truth, and untruth, of a German atrocity.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/remember- ... le/2008381

Thanks again, I read Remy's book whilst in Sweden. Well worth reading. Two simplest takeaways (there are many good takeaways): ask deniers and Nazi sympathizers who get all hot and bothered about Van Roden's ravings 1) whether they're discussing Van Roden's personal views or the Simpson report and 2) what they have to say about the Baldwin subcommittee report.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:12 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:Sara Berger's book


I've checked, there is no English translation of this book yet, at least on Amazon.


Checked this again, no translation or date of translation available..... :x

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:06 pm

- Translator Elena Rzhevskaya helped identify the Fuhrer's charred body in 1945. Now, her memoir is being published in English for the first time
The woman who carried Hitler’s teeth on V-Day
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-woman ... -on-v-day/

'Am I holding the only thing that is left of Hitler?'

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:20 pm

How many nuts did she find in the bastard?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:22 pm

LOL

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:07 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Picked up two books, Commandment of Auschwitz.


Started this today.

I read it at the University, it's probably been about 20 years. It's short, I'm thankful for that.



Finished this morning.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:24 pm

Historical evidence demonstrating that Chamberlain outwitted Hitler?
Obviously no one could have prevented Hitler ultimately going to war but Chamberlain delayed it?

- 'Munich' by Robert Harris is published on September
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -r8z07flrq

History paints Neville Chamberlain as an appeaser. But Robert Harris, whose new novel Munich centres on the 1938 agreement, says Hitler was trapped by the deal and later saw in it the seeds of his downfall

Delaying the war allowed Britain to build an RAF capable of winning the Battle of Britain that prevented Britain being invaded, such that in 1944 there was a launching pad for the D-day invasion.


ROBERT HARRIS | BOOK EXTRACT from Munich, «The German crowds chanted ‘Cham-ber-lain! Cham-ber-lain!’»
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/robe ... -pdk9h53t2

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:08 am

I've started reading Swett, Neighbors and Enemies: The Culture of Radicalism in Berlin, 1929-1933.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:06 pm

There's a new book in Greek by a survivor sonderkommando:

Leon Cohen: From Greece to Birkenau, The insurgency of the workers in Crematoria
http://x2t.com/Leon-Cohen

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:24 pm

excellent, wish that one were on English
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:excellent, wish that one were on English


In fact, it will be. A part of it was published in English, in a small number of copies, by a small publishing house but it was out of print soon. Now it will be published in English the whole book which in its most part it was unpublished. I'll let the forum know when it'll be available.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:07 pm

Terrific, and thanks again.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:08 pm

Rajsfus on Vel d'Hiv arrived today so I am going to pause the book on Weimar radicalism and read that one.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:25 pm

Got Beevor's book on Stalingrad, will bump the Stalingrad thread.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:46 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Got Beevor's book on Stalingrad, will bump the Stalingrad thread.


I'm not sure why but Beevor spent the first part of the booktalking about Barbarossa. Could've done that in a few pages.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm going to drop this here, I ran across this a while back. Matthew compiled a list of books on another thread. There's probably duplication but it's a very extensive list:

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Re: Holocaust Denial?WTH is that?
Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:07 pm

Nessie wrote:
Can anyone recommend an up to date based on former USSR records and any other new information on numbers book I can read. One that is from a university by an author who can be considered neutral.


I reproduce the current literature and papers on the subject as compiled by Dr Nick Terry and other historians as posted on the JREF anti holocaust denial sub-forum. If you want one book please let me know and I will ask one of those gentlemen, in a PM on the JREF forum, for their advice.

Allen, Michael Thad, The Business of Genocide. The SS, Slave Labor and the Concentration Camps. Chapel Hill, NC, 2002.
Aly, Götz, Hitlers Volksstaat. Raub, Rassenkrieg und nationaler Sozialismus. Frankfurt am Main, 2005

Angrick, Andrej and Witte, Peter, Die ‘Endlösung’ in Riga. Ausbeutung und Vernichtung 1941-1944. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft: Darmstadt, 2006

Arad, Yitzhak, The Holocaust in the Soviet Union. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2009

Bankier, David (ed), Probing the depths of German antisemitism: German society and the persecution of the Jews, 1933-1941. New York: Berghahn, 2000

Bauer, Yehuda, The Death of the Shtetl. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009

Baxter, Ian, The SS of Treblinka, Stroud: The History Press, 2010.
Bender, Sara, The Jews of Bialystok during World War II and the Holocaust. London, 2008

Blatman, Daniel, The Death Marches: The Final Phase of Nazi Genocide. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2011

Blood, Philip, Hitler’s Bandit Hunters. The SS and the Nazi Occupation of Europe. Dulles, VA, 2006

Bloxham, Donald, Genocide on Trial. War Crimes Trials and the Formation of Holocaust History and Memory. Oxford, 2001

Brandon, Ray and Lower, Wendy (eds) The Shoah in Ukraine, Indianapolis: Indiana University Press, 2008

Browning, Christopher R., Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers. Cambridge, 2000

Browning, Christopher R., Remembering Survival: Inside a Nazi Slave-Labor Camp. New York: Norton, 2010

Cesarani, David, Eichmann. His Life and Crimes. London, 2004

Cole, Tim, Holocaust City. The Making of a Jewish Ghetto. London, 2003

Corni, Gustavo, Hitler’s Ghettos: Voices from a Beleaguered Society, 1939-1944. London: Bloomsbury, 2002

Dean, Martin, Robbing the Jews. The Confiscation of Jewish Property in the Holocaust, 1933-1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2008

Desbois, Patrick, The Holocaust by Bullets, New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2008

Diner, Dan, Beyond the Conceivable: Studies on Germany, Nazism, and the Holocaust (Berkeley, 2000)

Dwork, Deborah and Van Pelt, Robert, Holocaust: A History. New York, 2002

Earl, Hilary, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial, 1945-1958: atrocity, law and history. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2009

Ehrenreich, Eric, The Nazi Ancestral Proof: Genealogy, Racial Science, and the Final Solution. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 2007

Engelking-Boni, Barbara and Leociak, Jacek, The Warsaw ghetto: a guide to the perished city. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009

Epstein, Catherine, Model Nazi: Arthur Greiser and the Occupation of Western Poland. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2010

Evans, Richard, The Coming of the Third Reich, London, 2003

Friedländer, Saul, The Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945. New York: HarperCollins, 2007

Fritz, Stephen G., Ostkrieg: Hitler’s War of Extermination in the East. University Press of Kentucky, 2011

Fritzsche, Peter, Life and death in the Third Reich. Cambridge, MA, 2008

Gellately, Robert and Nathan Stolzfus (eds), Social Outsiders in Nazi Germany. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2001

Gellately, Robert, Backing Hitler: Consent and Coercion in Nazi Germany. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001

Gigliotti, Simone, The Train Journey: Transit, Captivity, and Witnessing in the Holocaust. Oxford: Berghahn, 2009

Gilbert, Martin, Kristallnacht: Prelude to Destruction. London: HarperCollins, 2006

Gross, Jan, Neighbors. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2001

Hebert, Valerie, Hitler’s Generals on Trial: The Last War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg. Lawrence: University of Kansas Press, 2010

Herf, Jeffrey, The Jewish Enemy: Nazi Propaganda during World War II and the Holocaust. Cambridge, MA, 2006

Horwitz, Gordon, Ghettostadt: Lodz and the making of a Nazi city. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2008

Jews in France during World War II / Renée Poznanski. Hanover, N.H. : University Press of New England in Association with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum ; Waltham, Mass. : Brandeis University Press, 2001

Kassow, Samuel, Who Will Write Our History? Rediscovering a Hidden Archive from the Warsaw Ghetto. London, 2007

Kay, Alex, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder: Political and Economic Planning for German Occupation Policy in the Soviet Union, 1940-1941, Oxford: Berghahn, 2006.

Kola, Andrzej. Bełżec: the Nazi Camp for Jews in Light of Archaeological Sources: Excavations 1997-1999. Warsaw and Washington: The Council for the Protection of Memory of Combat and Martyrdom and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, 2000.

Koonz, Claudia, The Nazi Conscience. Cambridge, MA: Belknap Press of Harvard University, 2003

Krakowski, Shmuel, Chelmno: a small village in Europe: the first Nazi extermination camp. Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 2009

Kruk, Herman, The last days of the Jerusalem of Lithuania. Chronicles from the Vilna Ghetto and the camps 1939-1944, Yale University Press, New Haven/London 2002

Kühne, Thomas, Belonging and Genocide: Hitler’s Community, 1918-1945. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2010

Kulka, Otto Dov and Jäckel, Eberhard (eds), Die Juden in den geheimen NS-Stimmungsberichten 1933-1945. Düsseldorf: Droste Verlag, 2004

Levin, Itamar, Walls Around: The Plunder of Warsaw Jewry During World War II and its Aftermath., New York: Greenwood, 2004.

Longerich, Peter, Holocaust. The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford, 2010

Longerich, Peter, The Unwritten Order: Hitler’s Role in the Final Solution. Stroud: Tempus, 2001

Lower, Wendy, Nazi Empire-Building and the Holocaust in the Ukraine. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 2005

Marcuse, Harold, Legacies of Dachau. The Uses and Abuses of a Concentration Camp, 1933-2001. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2001

Margolis, Rachel and Tobias, Jim G. (eds), Die geheimen Notizen des K. Sakowicz. Dokumente zur Judenvernichtung in Ponary. Nürnberg, 2003, in English as Sakowicz, Kazimierz, Ponary Diary, 1941-1943. A Bystander’s Account of a Mass Murder. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2005

Mazower, Mark, Hitler’s Empire: How the Nazis Ruled Europe (New York, 2008),

Michman, Dan, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2011

Miron, Guy (ed), The Yad Vashem Encyclopedia of Ghettos During the Holocaust, Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 2010, 2 volumes.

Mommsen, Hans (ed), The Third Reich Between Vision and Reality: New Perspectives on German History, 1918-1945. Oxford: Berg, 2001

Overy, Richard J., Interrogations: The Nazi Elite in Allied Hands, 1945. Harmondsworth, 2001

Paulsson, Gunnar S., Secret city : the hidden Jews of Warsaw, 1940-1945. New Haven : Yale University Press, c2002.

Pegelow, Thomas, The language of Nazi genocide: linguistic violence and the struggle of Germans of Jewish ancestry. Cambridge, 2009

Pelt, Robert Jan van, The Case for Auschwitz. Evidence from the Irving Trial. Bloomington, IN, 2002

Poprzeczny, Joseph, Odilo Globocnik, Hitler’s Man in the East. London: McFarland & Company, 2004

Porat, Dina, The Fall of a Sparrow: The Life and Times of Abba Kovner (Stanford, California: Stanford University Press, 2010)

Rieger, Berndt, Creator of Nazi Death Camps. The Life of Odilo Globocnik. London: Vallentine Mitchell, 2007

Snyder, Timothy, Bloodlands: Europe between Hitler and Stalin. London: The Bodley Head, 2010

Steinweis, Alan E., Studying the Jew: scholarly antisemitism in Nazi Germany. Cambridge, MA, 2006

Steinweis, Alan, Kristallnacht 1938, Cambridge, MA: Belknap Press, 2009.

Tooze, Adam, The Wages of Destruction. The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy. London, 2006

Trunk, Isaiah, Lodz Ghetto. A History. Bloomington, 2006

Westermann, Edward B., Hitler’s Police Battalions. Enforcing Racial War in the East. Kansas, 2005

Wildt, Michael, Generation des Unbedingten. Das Führungskorps des Reichssicherheitshauptamtes. Hamburg, 2002

Wittmann, Rebecca, Beyond Justice: The Auschwitz Trial. Cambridge, MA, 2005

Words to outlive us : eyewitness accounts from the Warsaw ghetto / edited by Michal Grynberg ; translated and with an introduction by Philip Boehm. London : Granta, 2003. xii, 493 p : ill,maps ; 24 cm. D810.J4 W92


Zimmerman, Joshua D. (ed.), Contested Memories: Poles and Jews during the Holocaust and Its Aftermath (New Brunswick, NJ, 2003)



Balberyskski, Mendel, Stronger Than Iron: The Destruction of Vilna Jewry, 1941-1945: An Eyewitness Account. Gefen, 2010
Cesarani, David, Becoming Eichmann: Rethinking the Life, Crimes, and Trial of a “Desk Murderer.” Da Capo, 2004
Cymlich, Israel, and Oskar Strawczynski, Escaping Hell in Treblinka. Yad Vashem, 2007.
Hilberg, Raul, The Destruction of the European Jews, 3 volumes. 2003 edition.
Greif, Gideon, We Wept Without Tears: Testimonies of the Jewish Sonderkommando from Auschwitz. Yale, 2005.
Kershaw, Ian, The End: The Defiance and Desturction of Hitler’s Germnay, 1944-1955. Penguin, 2011.
Margolis, Rachel, A Partisan from Vilna. Academic Studies Press, 2010
Megargee, Geoffrey P., War of Annihilation: Combat and Genocide on the Eastern Front, 1941. Bowman & Littlefield, 2006
Schelvis, Jules, Sobibor: A History of a Nazi Death Camp. Berg in association with the USHMM, 2007 (English)
Schneiderman, S.L., ed., & Susan Lee Pentlin, The Diary of Mary Berg: Growing Up in the Warsaw Ghetto. OneWorld Oxford, 2007.
Schmidt, Ulf, Karl Brandt, The Nazi Doctor: Medicine and Power in the Third Reich. Hambledon Continuum, 2007.
Schumann, Dirk, Political Violence in the Weimar Republic, 1918-1933: The First for the Streets and Civil War, Berghahn, 2009.
Shneer, David, Through Soviet Jewish Eyes: Photography, War, and the Holocaust. Rutgers University Press, 2011.
Struk, Janina, Photographying the Holocaust: Interpretations of the Evidence. I.B. Tauris, 2004.
Sutton, Karen, The Massacre of the Jews of Lithuania. Gefen, 2008.
Thacker, Toby, Joseph Goebbels: Life and Death. Palgrave, 2009.
Van Voren, Robert, Undigested Past: The Holocaust in Lithuania. Editions Rodopi, 2011.
Venezia, Shlomo, Inside the Gas Chambers: Eight Months in the Sonderkommando of Auschwitz. Polity, in association with the USHMM, 2009 (French edition 2007)

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:01 pm

Nessie needs to drop the "neutral" crap.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:22 pm

Nessie - in 2011 - presented as a fence-sitter.

Nick Terry has updated the list since. It was posted (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st11946394) at ISF. EtienneSC had read just 3 titles on Nick's list of nearly 350 recent works.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:00 pm

Working towards the Führer, Hilberg's Nazi mind meld: in January 1929 a Nazi propaganda activist in Berlin was already writing to Himmler about the party's need, as a specific aim, to train and lead new members so that the party faithful would become "able to follow the smallest hand gesture of the Führer."

quoted in Swett, Neighbors & Enemies: The Culture of Radicalism in Berlin, 1929-1933, p 179
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:09 pm

an interesting, if troubling, Depression-era practice in Germany, which Swett (above) touches on, in passing, was the auctioning off of the possessions of evictees or others who had reached financial limits; bank officials or court authorities would put the dispossessed family's belongings up for auction right on the sidewalks in front of their apartments, where neighbors or passersby could bid on the goods (furnishing, silver, dishes, etc) . . . this made me wonder if the later dispossession of the Jews and sales of their property to ordinary Germans wasn't eased by the earlier Depression practice, making this ritual familiar enough in the cities to seem like a natural thing to do (pp 90, 204)
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817


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