General Books/Reading Discussion

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:03 pm

I finished the Friedlander 39-45 book. I won't bore you with the new things I picked up along the way. It was great. Thanks.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:15 am

Xcalibur wrote:Let's all be thankful.... landed a REALLY dumb one this time. I kinda feel sorry for it... reminds me of a perch flailing in the bottom of a canoe.... poor thing can't decide whether or not to jump back in the water or hang around... waiting for someone to club it.

LOL, our laughs however come at the cost of the hope of any sustained discussion of a topic. Then again, who cares? Sustained discussion with chimps acting like dead perches is not the most important thing in the world - nor even of any significance at all for the study of the Holocaust.

In that vein, I highly recommend Nicholas Stagardt's new book, which offers a very nice integrated history of WWII, from (the) German perspective(s), built around Germans' experiences during the war and how they processed the war and which gives insights into institutions and contexts (Heimat and regional identities, church, family, military, theater and cinema, music and literature, gardening!, personal codes of morality, private spheres) which contrasted with NS but which were pressured by the propaganda machines and tracked by the SD, Gestapo and so forth. Stargardt is very good on describing and accounting for complex attitudes toward Führer and party and grounding these in the outlook and evolution of "traditional" milieus. The book makes use of a number of diaries and letters - sustained through the war years - but is much broader than simply a study of diaries and letters (these diaries and letters come from a well-chosen selection of Germans, from different backgrounds and holding a variety of viewpoints, and include Marianne Strauss, Victor Klemperer, Wilm Hosenfeld (conveying a much fuller sense of this man than I've read previously), journalists Ursula von Kardoff and Lisa de Boor, Willy Reese, a photojournalist Liselotte Purper, the previously mentioned August Töpperwien, ordinary soldiers, and others). The material on the Holocaust is situated in this larger context - and what emerges are both a surprising degree of awareness on some level coupled with a combination of a) guilt expressed in different ways and b) a pragmatic, protective acceptance of the hard measures. The rationale of the NS - a necessary war against the Jews - seems to have penetrated people's thinking to a disturbing extent. In a complex way Stargardt shows how Germans accepted the Hitler regime even when they themselves were not necessarily NS and had their own, differing reasons for their acceptance/support. Discussion of rumors and their implications is good. The material on Allied bombings of German cities is really informative and interesting. There could have been more on the KLs and foreign workers imported into Germany, also on Jews in Germany during 1943 and after - what's there is good. OTOH, discussion of civil defense, NSV, and the Volkssturm, e.g., is excellent, and the book is, with cursory discussion of such topics as the KLs and foreign labor, over 600 pages, so mine is at most a minor "complaint." In a way, Stargardt's book forms a companion piece, explaining the German side, to Reese's Why Stalin's Soldiers Fought - although its scope is much broader and the book is more subtle; there is not a simple, uniform answer, of course, and Stargardt shows how people's very different motivations (and experiences) converged into tenacious holding out, despite ebbs and flows in popular opinion. The narrative is really strong and well written - the author uses not only a variety of primary sources but summarizes the recent literature on many pertinent topics (from military history to social history to the history of the Holocaust and so on) - pulling in the best conclusions of historians effortlessly and making sense of many disparate studies and texts. Highly recommended.

We should probably have a "must reading" stickie thread of some sort . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:02 am

Longerich's new Hitler biography out Monday

recent books by Peter Longerich . . .

Holocaust (672 pp)
Deutsch - 1998 (Die Politik der Vernichtung)
English - 2010

Himmler (1,031 pp)
Deutsch - 2008
English - 2011

Goebbels (992 pp)
Deutsch - 2010
English - 2015

Hitler (1,295 pp)
Deutsch - 2015 (Monday, 9 November)
English - ??? (2018-2020?)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:24 am

speaking of publishing dates, do any of you know if there will be an English edition at any point of the new T4/AR book?

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:02 am

what book is that?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:41 am

Sara Berger's book

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:54 am

Ah, published in 2013, this is the one that got tLB all agog as she cited the HC White Paper a few times. That said, I do not know.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:59 am

IIRC she covers some new ground.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Goebbels / Longerich Biography / General Chat

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:07 am

Berger TOC

I recall reading somewhere that Robert Kuwalek's book on Bełzec is to be published in English at some point. Scholarly books in this field are slow in getting translated into English - and many are never translated (e.g., Dieckmann, Curilla, Gerlach . . . )
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 10209
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am
Contact:

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:25 am

At Statistical Mechanic's request, I've merged several posts from disparate threads into this one for book discussions. Also have made it a "Sticky."
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:48 am

Thanks Pyrrho, much appreciated!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:08 am

Will be hunting down that Kuwalek book when I get the chance.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:01 am

Stargardt is excellent, the real deal - highly recommended.

Two "page turners" I recently read are . . .

Sybille Steinbacher on Auschwitz, which is a brief synthesis of the latest scholarship designed to be easily read - no footnotes for example - nothing new but a succinct statement of how things stand - a nice refresher course sort of, you can read it in an afternoon. (Her essay in East Upper Silesia in the Gruner & Osterloh collection on the FS in the Greater German Reich, OTOH, is copiously footnoted and very important to understanding an important area and time in the development and implementation of the Final Solution - I recommend this book, whilst it is technical and a bit plodding, for its comprehensive coverage of events and areas that often get superficial attention in surveys.)

Timothy Rayback's Hitler's First Victims focuses on the 1933 Bavarian judicial investigations of the first murders in Dachau - very journalistic but, again, a good narrative account - different to Steinbacher's book, for sure, but similarly a fast and lively read.

Also, I have picked up and started reading a book due out Nov 24th (given the release date, I was surprised as hell to receive it this week!) on which I'll update you all as I go - a new biography of Speer . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:16 am

Speer would not have liked this book, which is by Martin Kitchen; it begins with harsh critique of Trevor-Roper, Sereny (IMO mightily warranted; I found her Speer book wretched), and Fest. The intent of the book, I am inferring, is to show how Speer constructed an image of himself and re-wrote his life history in a way that appealed to his postwar audience and took them in.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:21 am

You must remember that Sereny's Speer book was based on her interviews with him, she basically repeated what he said. I insist that her Stangl book was outstanding, one of the best I have ever read in any genre.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:13 am

Believe it or not, I've only read bits and pieces of the Stangl book, never cover to cover. Kitchen is similarly merciless with regard to that book, btw.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:32 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Believe it or not, I've only read bits and pieces of the Stangl book, never cover to cover. Kitchen is similarly merciless with regard to that book, btw.

How? Has dickwad even read it?

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:47 am

I presume so, of course. I am not sure he's a dickwad. He's a professor emeritus from Simon Fraser University, former history professor and author of books on 20th century German history, including Rommel. His viewpoint, insofar as I understand it, is that Sereny bonds with her subjects and winds up "show[ing] considerably more sympathy for the perpetrators than for their victims," portraying all three of her subjects as mainly victims of "early environment and upbringing." The third subject mentioned is Mary Bell, a child-murderer. The Speer book is really awful - it made me angry reading it, it was so gullible and stupidly ponderous. Kitchen, of course, given his own focus, says most about the Speer book. He gives the Stangl and Bell books swift swipes and nothing more.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:43 am

:rotfl: Ok, so he's not disputing the depth of the investigation. Nevermind lol

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:52 am

Jeff_36 wrote: I insist that her Stangl book was outstanding, one of the best I have ever read in any genre.

Fair enough. I just bought it. I'll let you know what I think.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:14 pm

I so much detested her Speer book - he didn't battle with truth so much as conduct a war against it - that I've never felt desire to read properly Into That Darkness. I do know that Kitchen's viewpoint is not unique - others have criticized Sereny for her salvation mission with regard to these guys, her focus on their supposed psychic turmoil and moral inner wrestling match, on her notion that the perpetrators were blocking psychologically their awareness of horrible guilt. In such a vein, I once read that Sereny had judged Waldheim a basically "decent man" or some such. Time's limited . . . interested to read your take . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . interested to read your take . . .
I'm still learning and getting experience with different historical writing styles. I welcome your opinions, as to what I should be wary of, concerning different books...before I read them. :D

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:07 am

LOL since I haven't read Into That Darkness cover to cover, I will only encourage you to do so - and ignore the bias I accumulated reading her Speer biography!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:41 am

Jeff, the Kitchen book is interesting, with a lot of information that if I have come across before (which I doubt) I've forgotten - the approach is a bit didactic - Kitchen repeatedly uses documents to show how Speer's self-justifications (both how he and Hitler packaged their plans during the Third Reich and how Speer tried postwar to re-tell his role as that of an apolitical technocrat) were outright dishonest - that he knew things he denied, that facts were different to how he stated them. I am in the '30s - Kitchen jumps around a lot - but will post telling examples when I get to Final Solution related issues.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
NathanC
Poster
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:19 am

Mother Night

Postby NathanC » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:18 pm

I remember that Matthew Ellard once recommended, in jest, a book by Kurt Vonnegut. Mother Night, which among other things, makes fun of Neo Nazis and Holocaust Deniers.

I saw this book recently and picked it up. I have to say, it was an enjoyable read. I know it wasn't intended to be a Historical work, but even so, it really managed to provide a lot of great insight into the time it portrayed. It does make fun of Holocaust deniers and Anti-semites - Jones really isn't too different from David from this forum.I found it interesting that Campbell sort of acknowledged that he - a propagandist - was as much of a murderer as Heydrich, Eichmann or Himmler. He only made words, but the problem was that a lot of people were all too eager to believe him and commit murder. Sort of an answer to why Streicher was executed.

The Deniers must really hate Vonnegut. He lived through the bombing of Dresden and said he hated it, but in this book, he treats the Holocaust and Holocaust survivors with respect. He depicts them as people, instead of the disgusting Denier stereotype of Survivors allegedly exploiting their "victimhood" for some imagined privileges. He makes Howard Campbell sympathetic, but the narrative makes it clear that everything he did was absolutely wrong. A Far cry from the Deniers who invoke Dresden and other Allied crimes in order to minimize the Holocaust and their heroes' other crimes.

Thanks, Matthew, for mentioning this book.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:15 am

NathanC wrote: I know it wasn't intended to be a Historical work, but even so, it really managed to provide a lot of great insight into the time it portrayed. It does make fun of Holocaust deniers and Anti-semites


Cognitive dissonance
In Vonegutt's novels and popular films, like Something about Mary, occasionally characters are introduced, who are so awful and repulsive, that the audience automatically knows to laugh at them. I imagine that most of the holocaust deniers on this forum have seen these sorts of films and laugh at these awful characters like everyone else. Yet, the deniers then turn around and do exactly the same, as these repulsive characters, in real life and firstly, can't see how ridiculous they are, but secondly, that public are trained to see them as ridiculous. The expression cognitive dissonance does seem to apply in this case.


General Idiots / France / "Vicsims"
More annoying is the damage coming from the David Icke hordes of idiotic followers. That forum is promoting the concept of "Vicsims" (professional actors, pretending to be victims in media at numerous atrocities, to promote gun control or something). David Icke makes a profit selling books, where he invents the new "woo theme". We have an idiot called Gorgeous promoting French "Vicsims" here. She is claiming false flags yet it is her very post making this claim, using faked footage, that is the deceptive internet misinformation. I think she should be banned.


Forum member "Gorgeous" / VicSims Propaganda / Post on Forum
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=25976&start=40#p491602

"Just plain Crazy"
We have a very insane person on the forum at the moment, who has a "report" that proves the January French attacks were a false flag. I can't point to any particular insane part because it is entirely insane. I link below the post that Pyrrho, the moderator set up to allow forum members to read the report. The thread itself is self explanatory. I will make a $100 donation to the Skeptic Society if anyone can deduce the insane posters nationality. I'm stumped.


Insane Report into French False Flags & the ongoing thread.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=26143&start=40#p488359

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:We have a very insane person on the forum at the moment, who has a "report" that proves the January French attacks were a false flag. I can't point to any particular insane part because it is entirely insane. I link below the post that Pyrrho, the moderator set up to allow forum members to read the report. The thread itself is self explanatory. I will make a $100 donation to the Skeptic Society if anyone can deduce the insane posters nationality. I'm stumped.


Russian. That's where my money is.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:General Idiots / France / "Vicsims"
More annoying is the damage coming from the David Icke hordes of idiotic followers. That forum is promoting the concept of "Vicsims" (professional actors, pretending to be victims in media at numerous atrocities, to promote gun control or something). David Icke makes a profit selling books, where he invents the new "woo theme". We have an idiot called Gorgeous promoting French "Vicsims" here. She is claiming false flags yet it is her very post making this claim, using faked footage, that is the deceptive internet misinformation. I think she should be banned.

Definitely not just Icke - this stuff was rampant after the Boston Marathon bombing and Sandy Hook across the web. Werd at RODOH is into it big time.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:"Just plain Crazy"
We have a very insane person on the forum at the moment, who has a "report" that proves the January French attacks were a false flag. I can't point to any particular insane part because it is entirely insane.

You could have pointed to . . . the very beginning:
Here you find a research about what could Extra-Terrestrial entities think about the Paris 2015 attack.

The research is based on open online available resources.

Authors do not claim anything in the text is true.

“We” in the text refer to Extra-Terrestrial entities.

I do think maybe we’ve found the source of Monstrous’s confusion over the Holocaust - he too may be talking to “Extra-Terrestrial entities.” D’ya think?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:43 am

Jeff_36 wrote: Russian. That's where my money is.
The electronic communications definitely go through Russia, but I'm not 100% sure the insane person, them-self, is Russian. The "into" English translation errors in the report are different to the "into" English translation errors in the insane person's posts. That's why I don't think he/she wrote it. Additionally the photos in the report of "audio analysis" are international software in the "English language" option and not French. He/She can't speak French.

What I can't work out is motive. I have absolutely no idea why this insane person is posting on this science forum and not elsewhere? Generally people with bees in their bonnets tell the world on many forums. This one doesn't. My problem is that I'm good at predicting what a rational person would do. Some of these people are simply not rational. :D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:51 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Definitely not just Icke - this stuff was rampant after the Boston Marathon bombing and Sandy Hook across the web. Werd at RODOH is into it big time.
You are correct. It's not just Icke. However, from Icke's point of view, he cannot make a monopoly profit by jumping on existing woo topics. He's better off controlling his own invented "woo" like Alien Lizard creatures control the Earth" and so on. David Icke probably has very interesting conversations with his "commissioning publisher".
images (14).jpg


As For "Vic sims", I first see that theme "pop up" around 2009. I do not know the exact origin.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:58 am

Statistical Mechanic quoted and wrote:"Here you find a research about what could Extra-Terrestrial entities think about the Paris 2015 attack."

“We” in the text refer to Extra-Terrestrial entities".

The insane person claimed to have applied to the International Criminal court, to investigate the claims using this insane report. As Dr Colls worked on the Yugoslavian ICC investigations, perhaps we could get her on the case..... :D

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:00 am

LOL, we do get the wackadoos . . . I am not holding my breath for Monstrous finally to discuss evidence instead of the voices in his little head . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:05 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL, we do get the wackadoos . . . I am not holding my breath for Monstrous finally to discuss evidence instead of the voices in his little head . . .
From my point of view, Monsterous is holding up discussions as everyone has to keep showing him basic stuff, over and over again. He should be moved back a couple a school years, the poor dimwitted boy. :D

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:16 am

Well put, he confuses his ignorance about the basics with an actual argument . . .
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4162
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: France & Bizarre behaviour on our forum

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote: Russian. That's where my money is.
The electronic communications definitely go through Russia, but I'm not 100% sure the insane person, them-self, is Russian. The "into" English translation errors in the report are different to the "into" English translation errors in the insane person's posts. That's why I don't think he/she wrote it. Additionally the photos in the report of "audio analysis" are international software in the "English language" option and not French. He/She can't speak French.

What I can't work out is motive. I have absolutely no idea why this insane person is posting on this science forum and not elsewhere? Generally people with bees in their bonnets tell the world on many forums. This one doesn't. My problem is that I'm good at predicting what a rational person would do. Some of these people are simply not rational. :D


Germany perhaps? or somewhere in eastern Europe (not Poland, most poles I know are not particularly imaginative)? Ukraine?

Just a crazy person in the end. Basement dwelling neck-bearded no-lifer. Like Monstrous. They both probably weigh 300 pounds (and not an NFL 300 pounds either).

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:55 pm

Speer & Posen here.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:09 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:You should pick up Kitchen - his basic argument is that there was no miracle; rather, the economy being one more of Speer's self-promoting myths.
OK. That is exactly what I was wondering. I will order, then read the book and come back later if I don't understand something.

We can help each other out! Have you read Tooze? That book is brilliant. It is the single best book to read on the economy of the Third Reich.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25948
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:39 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: We can help each other out! Have you read Tooze?
No I see the paperback is only $20. I have ordered it from Amazon and will read it before the Speer book by Kitchen.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 14888
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:46 am

Hey, has anyone seen episodes of The Man in the High Castle? Worth watching?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jeffk 1970, Upton_O_Goode and 2 guests