Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:55 pm

Monstrous wrote:Has anyone considered interpreting the text as that the SUSPECTS who "slipped through the cracks" ended up being roasted alive in cremation ovens?

No. Do you have evidence for that - specifically for EG commanders burned alive? Name the commanders and cough up the evidence.

Remember Ferencz's comment was about something he observed in a DP camp, not the Einsatzgruppen.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Do you have evidence for

anything you claim?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: The EG: Monstrous Strikes Back

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:11 pm

Monstrous wrote:A combination of threat of torture/death if not cooperating and promise of lenient punishments if cooperating would likely have been quite effective...

While we're at it - any evidence for this or for your pig-ignorant but firm belief that the EG defendants were witnesses for the prosecution in the EG trial?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:19 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The jäger report ended up being a Soviet forgery in the eyes of Monsterous.

Monstrous has a complex mind capable of complex thoughts.

:rotfl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOVr9083QxM

Monstrous wrote:The EG trial reports may have been fabricated by the Brits, the later Jaeger report by the Soviets.
Wow Monstrous! Your really onto the allies. Maybe when you are not using speculation as evidence you can prove such.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:29 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The jäger report ended up being a Soviet forgery in the eyes of Monsterous.

Monstrous has a complex mind capable of complex thoughts.

:rotfl:
< snip >

No, seriously, Monstrous once solved The Pellet Problem:

Image
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:33 pm

I understand he is a whiz at mazes.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Denying-History » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The jäger report ended up being a Soviet forgery in the eyes of Monsterous.

Monstrous has a complex mind capable of complex thoughts.

:rotfl:
< snip >

No, seriously, Monstrous once solved The Pellet Problem:

Image


Didn't realize that Monsterous learned his argument style from the Kerplunk experiment. Codoh and metapedia must be breeding the well.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NathanC » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:43 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Has anyone considered interpreting the text as that the SUSPECTS who "slipped through the cracks" ended up being roasted alive in cremation ovens?


:award:

You still deserve the above, Monstrous.
Were they roasted in the German Gulags?


since in this interview, Ferencz explicitly said that the rest were never tried, and that the interviewer notes that most Einsatzgruppen defendants escaped Justice, no.

The only thing we can consider from this is that a) Monstrous doesn't know English because a common English idiom slips right by his dumb head and b)Monstrous hasn't read the interview that he's quoting, because it doesn't help his case.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:44 am

From Giving Hitler Hell:
Ferencz prosecuted members of the Einsatzgruppen. "There were 3,000 members of these killing squads who did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years," he says. "These 3,000 men alone were responsible for almost 1 million murders. Do you know how many I brought indictments against? Twenty-two. The rest were never tried.

"I remember talking to Soviet officers," he adds. "And they were baffled. 'You know they're guilty,' they'd say. 'Why don't you just shoot them?' There was a lot of that kind of feeling in postwar Germany."

Strictly speaking, Ferencz was wrong in 2005 when he told a reporter that
1) the EGs "alone were responsible" for the 1 million murders in the East he cites
2) the commanders "did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years"
3) just 22 commanders were indicted in the NMT case (24 were indicted)
4) no one beyond the men tried by the NMT trial ever faced trial (e.g, 10 members of the Tilsit EK were tried in 1958 in the so-called Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial; we've discussed in this thread the trial of EK-9 commander Filbert, these later trials, and these)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NathanC » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:52 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:From Giving Hitler Hell:
Ferencz prosecuted members of the Einsatzgruppen. "There were 3,000 members of these killing squads who did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years," he says. "These 3,000 men alone were responsible for almost 1 million murders. Do you know how many I brought indictments against? Twenty-two. The rest were never tried.

"I remember talking to Soviet officers," he adds. "And they were baffled. 'You know they're guilty,' they'd say. 'Why don't you just shoot them?' There was a lot of that kind of feeling in postwar Germany."

Strictly speaking, Ferencz was wrong in 2005 when he told a reporter that
1) the EGs "alone were responsible" for the 1 million murders in the East he cites
2) the commanders "did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years"
3) just 22 commanders were indicted in the NMT case (24 were indicted)
4) no one beyond the men tried by the NMT trial ever faced trial (e.g, 10 members of the Tilsit EK were tried in 1958 in the so-called Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial; we've discussed in this thread the trial of EK-9 commander Filbert, these later trials, and these)



Re: the bit about the EG men never being tried, I think Ferencz meant to say were not tried by him or the USA. He's sort of right though. There was about a 10-11 year delay between the NMT and the Ulm trial. That can be attributed to the established policy of leniency towards Former Nazis by the West German government and there being no Hoax. Roberto mentioned elsewhere that the Ulm trial started purely by accident

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/jrgen-graf-on-criminal-justice-and.html?m=0

Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:The investigations leading to the Ulm Einsatzgruppen Trial, according to this page, started because a former SS-Oberführer, who in 1941 had been director of police in the Memel region and after the war had under false name conducted a refugee camp near Ulm until being dismissed when his identity became known, had brought in an action claiming his reinstatement into public service. When the press reported about this lawsuit, one reader recognized him and remembered that this man had played a major part in shootings of Jews at the beginning of the attack on the Soviet Union. One wonders if the Federal German justice system would ever have got moving had it not been for this coincidence.


That such a mass murderer was able to try and request his reinstatement into public service and avoid prosecution for 13 years speaks volume. Ferencz was right.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:05 am

Monstrous wrote:Where are the mass graves?

The Believers do not want to talk about that...

Why are there some alleged documents on mass killings but no detailed descriptions of where the bodies are buried....

Been trying to discuss this, you don't seem to want to. You keep changing the subject.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:07 am

NathanC wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:From Giving Hitler Hell:
Ferencz prosecuted members of the Einsatzgruppen. "There were 3,000 members of these killing squads who did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years," he says. "These 3,000 men alone were responsible for almost 1 million murders. Do you know how many I brought indictments against? Twenty-two. The rest were never tried.

"I remember talking to Soviet officers," he adds. "And they were baffled. 'You know they're guilty,' they'd say. 'Why don't you just shoot them?' There was a lot of that kind of feeling in postwar Germany."

Strictly speaking, Ferencz was wrong in 2005 when he told a reporter that
1) the EGs "alone were responsible" for the 1 million murders in the East he cites
2) the commanders "did nothing but kill women and children for three straight years"
3) just 22 commanders were indicted in the NMT case (24 were indicted)
4) no one beyond the men tried by the NMT trial ever faced trial (e.g, 10 members of the Tilsit EK were tried in 1958 in the so-called Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial; we've discussed in this thread the trial of EK-9 commander Filbert, these later trials, and these)


Re: the bit about the EG men never being tried, I think Ferencz meant to say were not tried by him or the USA. He's sort of right though. There was about a 10-11 year delay between the NMT and the Ulm trial. That can be attributed to the established policy of leniency towards Former Nazis by the West German government and there being no Hoax. Roberto mentioned elsewhere that the Ulm trial started purely by accident

Except Ferencz said "never," not "after a 10-year delay." Strictly speaking. Although the Ulm trial had a quirky start, it led to a determined effort (below) to go after Nazi perpetrators who'd escaped justice.

NathanC wrote:holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/jrgen-graf-on-criminal-justice-and.html?m=0

Here is Alex Kay's rendition of impact of the Ulm trial, which is pretty standard fare.

NathanC wrote:
Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:The investigations leading to the Ulm Einsatzgruppen Trial, according to this page, started because a former SS-Oberführer, who in 1941 had been director of police in the Memel region and after the war had under false name conducted a refugee camp near Ulm until being dismissed when his identity became known, had brought in an action claiming his reinstatement into public service. When the press reported about this lawsuit, one reader recognized him and remembered that this man had played a major part in shootings of Jews at the beginning of the attack on the Soviet Union. One wonders if the Federal German justice system would ever have got moving had it not been for this coincidence.

There are other cases IIRC of people being recognized and winding up in the criminal justice system. Filbert was identified by a whistle blower type.

NathanC wrote:That such a mass murderer was able to try and request his reinstatement into public service and avoid prosecution for 13 years speaks volume. Ferencz was right.

But Ferencz said "never" and "indicted." To be factual, a number of Einsatzgruppen leaders and members were tried in West German courts, which isn't the impression left by Ferencz.

Here is an interview with Dieter Pohl on the Ulm trial.

Filbert's life sentence in the EK-9 "Filbert" trial.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:16 pm

Monstrous wrote:So much written about little Monstrous! It is clear that Monstrous is seen as a big, big threat!

Monstrous has been doing research and found this!
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sefton_Delmer

So the UK was also involved! This has made Monstrous see things more clearly.

The EG trial forgers may not have worked with the Soviets. But with the UK!

So, with one fell stroke Monstrous has invalidated the argument of cooperation with the Soviets being unlikely!

It was the Western Allies who may have created the forged EG reports!

Occam's razor says it was Ferencz, not Delmer or the Brits, who done it. Means (custody of the "documents") + motive (Jew) + character (problematic).

So, Monstrous, who is it today?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NathanC » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:So much written about little Monstrous! It is clear that Monstrous is seen as a big, big threat!

Monstrous has been doing research and found this!
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sefton_Delmer

So the UK was also involved! This has made Monstrous see things more clearly.

The EG trial forgers may not have worked with the Soviets. But with the UK!

So, with one fell stroke Monstrous has invalidated the argument of cooperation with the Soviets being unlikely!

It was the Western Allies who may have created the forged EG reports!

Occam's razor says it was Ferencz, not Delmer or the Brits, who done it. Means (custody of the "documents") + motive (Jew) + character (problematic).

So, Monstrous, who is it today?


It definitely wasn't the Brits, that's for sure. British intelligence was chock full of Antisemites like Victor Cavendish Bentick, who acknowledged that mass murders against the jews were occurring, but accused Jews of trying to "Stoke them up" and cast doubt on the veracity of sources for no reason other than that they were "Jewish in origin". Cavendish like most of British intelligence was clearly no "Friend of the Jews". Their wartime and postwar policies sure don't suggest that they could've forged anything: They severely restricted the immigration of Jews into the British mandate of Palestine, for example, for the sake of placating the Arabs. They did this to the extent of firing on refugee ships, and sending them back knowing full well it meant their deaths. They (And the Americans) also sabotaged an attempt by the Jewish agency to rescue Hungarian Jews, because the British didn't want these Rescued Jews to go to Palestine, and because it violated the Americans' policy of "Unconditional surrender".

Finally, some idiot on another thread pointed out the following reason why the British would not have "fabricated" evidence on behalf of Jews.

Dumbass wrote:You neglect to mention that Jewish groups like the Irgun and Stern gang were firing on the British at the time.


So, no. It was not the British. British intelligence was staffed by Antisemites, British Policy especially with regards to Mandate Palestine acted against Jewish interests and was intended to placate and win the support of the Arabs. They did not fake anything, as their policies and agendas show, and the attacks by Jewish terrorists would give them even less incentive to fake anything. Nope. Britain was not on the Jews' side, and there was no British hoax. Not even a nice try.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:01 pm

OK, so not the Brits. {!#%@} all. This sucks. 'Cuz I know the documents were fabricated. That's the key, it's the starting point for the whole thing. So who did it? Ferencz? Was it Ferencz? It could have been Ferencz, right, he was a Jew, you know? Rosie the Riveter? Charlie McCarthy or Mortimer Snerd? Ernie Pyle? ENIAC itself? The Jew Morgenthau?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:23 pm

NathanC wrote:They (And the Americans) also sabotaged an attempt by the Jewish agency to rescue Hungarian Jews, because the British didn't want these Rescued Jews to go to Palestine, and because it violated the Americans' policy of "Unconditional surrender".


This would make an interesting topic on its own.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:42 pm

The Ungarn-Aktion itself would be a very good topic. Also rescue/negotiations, for sure.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NathanC » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:21 am

Paul Bogdanor has recently published a new book about Kasztner, who was a pivotal player in the "Trucks for Blood" deal.

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/inte ... 016/11/02/

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Monstrous » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:43 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:So much written about little Monstrous! It is clear that Monstrous is seen as a big, big threat!

Monstrous has been doing research and found this!
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sefton_Delmer

So the UK was also involved! This has made Monstrous see things more clearly.

The EG trial forgers may not have worked with the Soviets. But with the UK!

So, with one fell stroke Monstrous has invalidated the argument of cooperation with the Soviets being unlikely!

It was the Western Allies who may have created the forged EG reports!

Occam's razor says it was Ferencz, not Delmer or the Brits, who done it. Means (custody of the "documents") + motive (Jew) + character (problematic).

So, Monstrous, who is it today?

Is there anyone who did not fake Nuremberg documents?

Monstrous discovered this!
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10878

So, yet another forgery producer!

Monstrous has not even mentioned the obvious culprits like the KGB!

There may also be some that have evaded detection by Monstrous.

The point is that trying to discredit any particular forger, like the Soviet gambit here, is doomed to fail!

There is always a fallback!

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:13 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Monstrous wrote:So much written about little Monstrous! It is clear that Monstrous is seen as a big, big threat!

Monstrous has been doing research and found this!
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sefton_Delmer

So the UK was also involved! This has made Monstrous see things more clearly.

The EG trial forgers may not have worked with the Soviets. But with the UK!

So, with one fell stroke Monstrous has invalidated the argument of cooperation with the Soviets being unlikely!

It was the Western Allies who may have created the forged EG reports!

Occam's razor says it was Ferencz, not Delmer or the Brits, who done it. Means (custody of the "documents") + motive (Jew) + character (problematic).

So, Monstrous, who is it today?

Is there anyone who did not fake Nuremberg documents?
lol
Monstrous discovered this!
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10878

I think you mean "finally learned of" instead of "discovered." But there is no fabrication of documents in the episode. In fact, the key sentence reads, "The materials Szajkowski sent from Germany became YIVO’s RG 215, the 'Berlin Collection,' whose twenty-five linear feet contain fragmentary materials from a number of former Nazi ministries . . ."

Also, where does the thread say that the snitched documents were EG reports entered into evidence at NMT trial 9, your ostensible purpose in this discussion?

Monstrous wrote:So, yet another forgery producer!

Another dud.

Monstrous wrote:Monstrous has not even mentioned the obvious culprits like the KGB!

Pray tell. Include dates for the KGB, like when it was founded.

Monstrous wrote:There may also be some that have evaded detection by Monstrous.

You've not identified and provided evidence for a single forged report yet. Not one.

Monstrous wrote:The point is that trying to discredit any particular forger, like the Soviet gambit here, is doomed to fail!

There is always a fallback!

Indeed. You keep falling back, don't you? And the list of names of people who didn't fabricate EG reports is endless as is your willingness to lie and misrepresent. Which absurd name will you toss out next?
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:30 pm

Monstrous,

Here's the deal. You've been shopping now for about a year and a half for evidence to support the claim you made in the OP. Without luck.

You call this shopping trip "research": let me break this to you gently - you have to do research before coming up with a claim.

What you've accomplished is to prove that you made a claim without suppport for it and that you will keep trying to find any shred of something that you might call support for your original lie. That's it.

You're like a blindfolded drunk throwing darts in a bar. Hoping that maybe one or two will hit the board. Only you're worse - you have yet to hit the board. It has to happen sometime, eh.

Look, I know - apparently you don't because you haven't hit this with an errant dart yet - that one EG defendant was struck by an Allied interrogator during pre-trial questioning. That's out there for you to find. Anything like this you finally do stumble on will be no use to you because of the massive volume of evidence for what the rest of us have told you. That evidence enables us to explain the real significance of instances like mistreatment of one prisoner.

Keep going, little fellow. The longer you go, the more new names and unrelated examples and misunderstood links you come up with, the longer you go dodging questions and ignoring evidence presented - the more comprehensively you prove you've been talking out your ass since writing the OP.

best, SM
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Are we about done here?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:05 pm

I think so. Monstrous took a powder to do more "research" on CODOH and Metapedia, Mary is busy trying to communicate with aliens and David is organizing a bake sale to come up with the 60.00 for Anglin to have his rally in Montana.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:07 pm

LOL
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Denying-History » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:38 pm

David and bake sales? Last time I checked he was trying to find holocaust related license plates.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:52 pm

Or trying to find offensive ice skating routines.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:59 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . 15 August 1941: Himmler visit to Minsk, discussion of widening victims to include Jewish women and children (Himmler diary entry on this is “partisans and Jews”) . . .

The inimitable Hans replies at HC to a Mattogno claim of a postwar forgery concerning Himmler's Minsk visit:

On Mattogno's Hallucination That von dem Bach-Zelewski's Extended Testimony on the Minsk Shooting Is a Jewish Forgery

supporting material: "On 15 August 1941, the Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler had the following appointment in the morning according to his diary . . ."

Monstrous's forgery claims are not even 1/10 as clever as Mattogno's.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Monstrous's forgery claims are not even 1/10 as clever as Mattogno's.
Well he's not even 1/10 as clever as David... So of course his forgery claim haven't been that smart. Next is probably going to announce a Bazillion connection to those awful forgeries and cite Rizoli as a source.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:21 pm

They've been collectively unable to sustain any forgery claims that I'm aware of concerning important documents - and they use the worse than dubious tactic of pulling forgery claims out of their asses when "needed." Recall that in a truly cynical and disqualifying performance Monstrous wrote that there were but very few forgeries - then refused to identify the "suspect" documents.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NathanC » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:23 am

I've decided to help with Monstrous's attempts to identify exactly who forged the Einsatzgruppen reports. To do that, I prepared a very simple venn diagram showing the claims of Deniers in General and Monstrous in particular, and the actual Wartime and Postwar Aims of the World War II victors and also West Germany. By showing how the agendas and policies of the victors interacted and intersected, the diagram should help Monstrous identify who had the motive and the most to gain by fabricating these documents. ;) ;) ;)

Nah, I'm just pulling his leg. The Hoax never happened, and no one fabricated anything, as my very simple venn diagram shows. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:28 am

this works better with a Zen Diagram (@ 3:05)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuOuxRD1Bc

(check out the dude @ 1:29 . . . presidential material?)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:40 am

The red tie affair?
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:42 am

NathanC wrote:I've decided to help with Monstrous's attempts to identify exactly who forged the Einsatzgruppen reports. To do that, I prepared a very simple venn diagram showing the claims of Deniers in General and Monstrous in particular, and the actual Wartime and Postwar Aims of the World War II victors and also West Germany. By showing how the agendas and policies of the victors interacted and intersected, the diagram should help Monstrous identify who had the motive and the most to gain by fabricating these documents. ;) ;) ;)

Nah, I'm just pulling his leg. The Hoax never happened, and no one fabricated anything, as my very simple venn diagram shows. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image


:lol:

Can't forget Stalin's own anti-Semitic attitudes, culminating in the repudiation of Israel and gearing up for one ginormous pogrom before he did the universe a favor and croaked.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:59 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:this works better with a Zen Diagram (@ 3:05)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuOuxRD1Bc

(check out the dude @ 1:29 . . . presidential material?)
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:05 am

that's a fake quotation btw . . . :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:26 am

Oops

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:29 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:this works better with a Zen Diagram (@ 3:05)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuOuxRD1Bc

(check out the dude @ 1:29 . . . presidential material?)


Edited to correct
Naturally I owe his orange majesty an apology.

Sorry about that, you orange ass hat.

:lol:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:38 pm

LOL

That quote is odd in that he has actually said far worse things . . . :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:18 am

Monstrous wrote:Has anyone considered interpreting the text as that the SUSPECTS who "slipped through the cracks" ended up being roasted alive in cremation ovens?


Stupidest thing you have ever said.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:59 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:Has anyone considered interpreting the text as that the SUSPECTS who "slipped through the cracks" ended up being roasted alive in cremation ovens?


Stupidest thing you have ever said.


Monstrous: Is there a white place (with green accents) elsewhere than the internet where nice people pat you on the head a lot and call you,"Sweet thing" before tucking you in for the night.


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