Oscar Groening liar?

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: . . . I don't think Statistical Mechanic and Ryu238 and scrumbbums and Jeff appreciate you calling them obsessive neo-nazi himmler sniffing freaks because they address the topic of this thread.

And Jeff? Mary was replying to Jeff! LOL
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon May 18, 2015 2:56 am

:lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon May 18, 2015 2:59 pm

I have made my statements known and will not repeat them.

If one watches the entire documentary or reads the Book by Rees, he/she will see that Groening made numerous references to gas chambers and his knowledge of them outside of the statement in question.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:01 pm

When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:21 pm

thanks, he never went to prison, this whole situation is just sad, from very dimension, without good answers
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Denying-History » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:20 am

Shame he died. He produced some useful information in his BBC interviews.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:thanks, he never went to prison, this whole situation is just sad, from very dimension, without good answers


I never expected him to do any prison time, I always thought his age prevented that possibility. I agree this whole thing left me with mixed feelings. I don’t think justice could ever be served in his case.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:27 am

Strangely enough, Mr Groening may have backed into the best of all the bad alternatives: speaking about what he saw and knew, taking deniers to task.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:34 am

It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby iwh » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:13 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


Yep...mixed feelings here. He could have kept his mouth shut and said nothing. He didn't.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:26 am

ryu238 wrote:
A.S. Marques of Portugal has spotted, Saturday, April 16, 2005, how BBC producer Laurence Rees faked what a German “eye-witness of gas chambers” actually said.

What Gröning actually said

I HAVE just read the article “The fight against Holocaust denial” by Raffi Berg, quoted by your site from BBC News. In that article, we read the following:

“The fear that deniers could gain the upper hand led an SS camp guard, Oskar Gröning, to break a lifetime of silence earlier this year in a BBC documentary, Auschwitz: The Nazis and the Final Solution. ‘I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections [for the gas chambers] took place,’ said Mr Gröning, now in his 80s. ‘I would like you to believe these atrocities happened— because I was there.'”

Mr. Berg’s quote is intriguing. I happen to have not only watched, but also tape-recorded, the BBC documentary he mentions, when it was broadcast last March 8 [2005] on the Portuguese channel RTP-2, in its original English version subtitled in Portuguese, and I was struck by the contradiction between the subtitles and the actual words one can hear in the film.

They differ in one important detail from what one can distinctly hear, both in the German words spoken by Gröning and their superposed English translation.

The Portuguese subtitles, like Mr. Berg’s quote, follow what I gather to be the BBC-distributed text that one can find here (Groening speaking):

“I see it as my task, now at my age, to face up to these things that I experienced and to oppose the Holocaust deniers who claim that Auschwitz never happened. And that’s why I am here today. Because I want to tell those deniers: I have seen the gas chambers, I have seen the crematoria, I have seen the burning pits—and I want you to believe me that these atrocities happened. I was there.”

Now here are the actual words one gets in the English superposed commentary, which is a faithful translation of the German words one is also able to hear beneath the English:

“I see it as my task, now at my age, to face up to these things that I experienced and to oppose the Holocaust deniers who claim that Auschwitz never happened. And that’s why I am here today. Because I want to tell those deniers: I have seen the crematoria, I have seen the burning pits—and I want you to believe me that these atrocities happened. I was there.”

Spot the difference.

Tough luck. Back to Höss’s “confessions” (never mind Richard Baer or Arthur Liebehenschel) and, of course, the Germans that also confessed to have seen the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth: Hans Stark (10 years for gassing Jews, under juvenile law due to his age, in the Frankfurt 1963-65 “Auschwitz Trial”) and Pery Broad (5 years, same trial)…

A. S. Marques

Lisbon, Portugal

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/Auschwitz/ ... 50405.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thoughts on this?
Never mind, found the answer: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -seen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Marques does bring up something?
Calm down, read carefully, think a little, and you'll get the nuance that escaped you. You see, the passage implies that Groening was hiding from view. This is a classic tale. Apparently every SS man needed to be in hiding to have a peak at what was supposedly everyday's business in clear view of everybody in the proverbial "factory of death" of Auschwitz. It's the same with the two only witnesses of the Frankfurt trial and both got away with very light condemnations. How come? Think about it and then draw your own conclusions on the value of this so-called "testimony"...

Thoughts?
I'm of the opinion that Rees' explanation should be treated as BS until proven otherwise.
It makes zero sense to cut out the key phrase and no cut is evident at that moment IIRC.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 pm

What a terrible tragedy

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Nessie » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:24 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


Agreed. The last chance to get testimony from those involved, especially any who saw mass gassing, shooting or cremations has been ruined. Those who are still alive, will keep quiet rather than risk spending their last days in court or prison.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:31 pm

Nessie wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


Agreed. The last chance to get testimony from those involved, especially any who saw mass gassing, shooting or cremations has been ruined. Those who are still alive, will keep quiet rather than risk spending their last days in court or prison.


It has occurred to you that even in the most benign environment these guys just might want to let sleeping dogs lie?

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Nessie » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:12 pm

I am sure they do, but in the fight against deniers, the more admissions from those who were there that mass gassing etc took place, the better. After what happened to Groening, there will be no person who will come forward and help the fight against deniers.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:49 pm

Nessie wrote:I am sure they do, but in the fight against deniers, the more admissions from those who were there that mass gassing etc took place, the better. After what happened to Groening, there will be no person who will come forward and help the fight against deniers.


Honestly, so what? Actuarially speaking one is only talking about a handful of people whose number shrinks every year. Besides, what exactly are they supposed to contribute to the body of facts already in evidence and why is any denier going to believe them?

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:55 pm

Nessie wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


Agreed. The last chance to get testimony from those involved, especially any who saw mass gassing, shooting or cremations has been ruined. Those who are still alive, will keep quiet rather than risk spending their last days in court or prison.

There are enough testimonies in the archives, we don't somehow desperately need more.

Besides if there are new testimonies, they could simply come from the people previously sentenced and thus already immune.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:59 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


What happened might not have been optimal, but I fail to feel sorry for him.

He entered the SS. He knowingly served in a literal slaughterhouse for people, no matter in what capacity. One could discuss legal fairness etc., but the poor man would have to stand a long time in the line of people whom I would dispense my limited reserves of pity.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:01 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


Agreed. The last chance to get testimony from those involved, especially any who saw mass gassing, shooting or cremations has been ruined. Those who are still alive, will keep quiet rather than risk spending their last days in court or prison.

There are enough testimonies in the archives, we don't somehow desperately need more.

Besides if there are new testimonies, they could simply come from the people previously sentenced and thus already immune.

Exactly. Not to mention the value of testimonies coming over half a century after the fact is not exactly the best. This is a non-issue, we have volumes and volumes of good evidence.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:02 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


What happened might not have been optimal, but I fail to feel sorry for him.

He entered the SS. He knowingly served in a literal slaughterhouse for people, no matter in what capacity. One could discuss legal fairness etc., but the poor man would have to stand a long time in the line of people whom I would dispense my limited reserves of pity.

I think that this is fair. From the little I know, Gröning made an effort in his life to come to terms with what was done and his role - he showed some degree of penitence, but I do not reject these trials. In his case, I'd probably have agreed with the trial and the guilty verdict, but also preferred a suspended sentence on account of his having spoken freely and previously about the mass murder and his apparent shame and remorse.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It’s the thing I feel is the one positive, his speaking about it and his repudiation of deniers.


He redeemed himself through that. The poor man. I feel terrible for him. It's good that they never got the chance to imprison him.


What happened might not have been optimal, but I fail to feel sorry for him.

He entered the SS. He knowingly served in a literal slaughterhouse for people, no matter in what capacity. One could discuss legal fairness etc., but the poor man would have to stand a long time in the line of people whom I would dispense my limited reserves of pity.

I think that this is fair. From the little I know, Gröning made an effort in his life to come to terms with what was done and his role - he showed some degree of penitence, but I do not reject these trials. In his case, I'd probably have agreed with the trial and the guilty verdict, but also preferred a suspended sentence on account of his having spoken freely and previously about the mass murder and his apparent shame and remorse.


One thing in his favor is that when found out what was going on he attempted to transfer out and go to the front lines. His superiors refused his transfer initially but did allow it at some point.

As far as his trial and conviction, I think in his case I need to know more about what evidence existence to convict him before I can say I agree or disagree with his conviction and sentencing. But, my feelings on the matter are irrelevant, German law isn’t based on my personal preferences.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz, his superiors assigned him to that location. When he found out what was going on he tried to transfer out and was refused. AFAIK he never directly participated in the selection and murder of inmates, neither was he accused of abusing inmates. One thing I do hold against him is he profited from the money seized from the victims, he admitted to that.

I agree that he is hardly worthy of sympathy.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:17 pm

I feel far worse for those that actually suffered and died at Auschwitz while Groening had it easy.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:18 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:29 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.


All true, however, hindsight is always 20/20. He did not or could not know what waited for him or what was going to happen. A lot of Germans and others volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS, they didn’t join to commit crimes.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:46 pm

Er, I won't make a long post about the nature of the SS . . .
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:53 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.


All true, however, hindsight is always 20/20. He did not or could not know what waited for him or what was going to happen. A lot of Germans and others volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS, they didn’t join to commit crimes.

Yeah, you never know what may happen when you join an org built on extreme racial hatred...

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:46 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.


All true, however, hindsight is always 20/20. He did not or could not know what waited for him or what was going to happen. A lot of Germans and others volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS, they didn’t join to commit crimes.

Yeah, you never know what may happen when you join an org built on extreme racial hatred...


I think you are making a very blanket statement on why someone might join the SS. From memory, Groening joined the SS because he wanted to follow in the footsteps of his grandfather and join an elite military organization.

Now, to some degree Groening had the kind of background that might condition someone to accept murder. His father joined the Stahlhelm after WW I and Groening joined the Stahlhelm’s youth organization. Groening joined the Hitler Youth after Hitler became Chancellor and participated in their activities, including book burning. I’m not going to say that Groening was completely innocent, I question why it took so long for the Germans to prosecute him. From memory he went through an investigation in the 1940’s and again in the 1970’s. If new evidence exists, fine. When I get a chance I’ll read more about his trial. It’s really not an urgent matter for me, I’ve got other things I’m looking into now.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:51 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.


All true, however, hindsight is always 20/20. He did not or could not know what waited for him or what was going to happen. A lot of Germans and others volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS, they didn’t join to commit crimes.

Yeah, you never know what may happen when you join an org built on extreme racial hatred...


I think you are making a very blanket statement on why someone might join the SS. From memory, Groening joined the SS because he wanted to follow in the footsteps of his grandfather and join an elite military organization.

Poor guy, so naive he didn't notice all the bad stuff until it was too late.

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, he admitted he was there, told (at least some) of what his role was, explained what he knew of the camp's murderous role, and apologized. So . . .



The difference to me is Groening didn’t volunteer to serve at Auschwitz,

No. He did, however, volunteer for the Waffen-SS... That he ended up in Au. was not a fluke or completely independent of his choices.


All true, however, hindsight is always 20/20. He did not or could not know what waited for him or what was going to happen. A lot of Germans and others volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS, they didn’t join to commit crimes.

Yeah, you never know what may happen when you join an org built on extreme racial hatred...


I think you are making a very blanket statement on why someone might join the SS. From memory, Groening joined the SS because he wanted to follow in the footsteps of his grandfather and join an elite military organization.

Poor guy, so naive he didn't notice all the bad stuff until it was too late.


Okey-dokey. This lost whatever point it had in the beginning so {!#%@} it.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Balmoral95 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:04 am

Are we to really to try to divine what's in someone else's head?

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Nessie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:35 pm

We just need to make sure we are always on the winning side in any future war. As it stands, with the precedent set by the camp guard trials, anyone who works at a camp where there is any sort of abuse is now responsible.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:21 pm

That is not the precedent. These trials have concerned camps with major murder programs which are executed by complex organizations with a division of labor and which could not have been successfully carried out without participants in differing roles. Sobibór is a case of a camp with virtually a singular purpose, being mass murder, Auschwitz is more complex. But the standard is not that if someone commits "any sort of abuse" anywhere in a camp, everyone is liable.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:56 pm

Nessie wrote:We just need to make sure we are always on the winning side in any future war. As it stands, with the precedent set by the camp guard trials, anyone who works at a camp where there is any sort of abuse is now responsible.


The key isn’t winning or losing, Nessie. The key is making sure that soldiers and civilians follow international law. Atrocities occur in wartime, it happens but when it happens those responsible need to be punished.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Nessie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

If Groening was in part responsible for everything that took place at Auschwitz, then every soldier who worked at Guantanamo Bay is responsible for everything that happened there.

Who wins or loses, who has the power decides who gets prosecuted.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Nessie wrote:If Groening was in part responsible for everything that took place at Auschwitz, then every soldier who worked at Guantanamo Bay is responsible for everything that happened there.

Who wins or loses, who has the power decides who gets prosecuted.


Yet US soldiers were prosecuted and convicted for the crimes committed there, Nessie. Rightfully so.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Nessie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Nessie wrote:If Groening was in part responsible for everything that took place at Auschwitz, then every soldier who worked at Guantanamo Bay is responsible for everything that happened there.

Who wins or loses, who has the power decides who gets prosecuted.


Yet US soldiers were prosecuted and convicted for the crimes committed there, Nessie. Rightfully so.


Not all of them, only those directly involved in abuse. The guy responsible for prisoner property in the office was not prosecuted.
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Re: Oscar Groening liar?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:57 pm

Nessie wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Nessie wrote:If Groening was in part responsible for everything that took place at Auschwitz, then every soldier who worked at Guantanamo Bay is responsible for everything that happened there.

Who wins or loses, who has the power decides who gets prosecuted.


Yet US soldiers were prosecuted and convicted for the crimes committed there, Nessie. Rightfully so.


Not all of them, only those directly involved in abuse. The guy responsible for prisoner property in the office was not prosecuted.



Nessie, keep in mind that the German state prosecuted Groening, not someone from the outside. The US, British, French, etc. didn’t pressure them to do so (AFAIK).
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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