refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:54 pm

OK OK.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Aaron Richards » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:02 am

Not having read all pages of this thread, what exactly is the bolshevik + stalin's purge death toll in the Soviet Union? I have seen wildly differing figures:


Total in the Soviet Union - 147,027,915 (urban 26,314,114)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_All ... viet_Union

The new Soviet Census (1939) showed a population figure of 170.6 million people, manipulated so as to match exactly the numbers stated by Stalin in his report to the 18th Congress of the All-Union Communist Party.

In his book, “Unnatural Deaths in the U.S.S.R.: 1928-1954,” I.G. Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin.

In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.

Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev, a Soviet politician and historian, estimated 35 million deaths.

In his acclaimed book “The Great Terror: Stalin’s Purge of the Thirties,” Anglo-American historian Robert Conquest said: “We get a figure of 20 million dead [under Stalin], which is almost certainly too low and might require an increase of 50 percent or so.”

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people- ... ll-1111789
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:06 am

“According to evidence released from secret archives since the dissolution of the Soviet Union (which some experts consider understated), during 1937 and 1938, when the Great Terror was at its height, the security organs detained for alleged “anti-Soviet activities” 1,548,366 persons, of whom 681,692 were shot—an average of 1,000 executions a day. The majority of the survivors ended up in hard-labor camps.”

Excerpt From: Pipes, Richard. “Communism.” Modern Library, 2001-11-06. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itun.es/us/qi0ez.l

I have seen higher figures proposing a figure between 900,000 to 1.2 million. If your interested I would recommend Ellmans essay:

http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/ELM-Repression_Statistics.pdf
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:44 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:This is a canard (blood libel?) that props up time and time again in radical right wing publications. It is occasionally used to justify the Einsatzgruppen killings of 41'.

<snip>

Anyone have anything else to add? Anything at all would be good. This may not be explicitly connected to the Holocaust but many use it to trivialize The Holocaust or even justify it.



I can only add that this was an outstanding post. If there are any awards on this board, I nominate it for the current competition.

I have heard this canard over and over, and always said to myself exactly what you said: There were a lot of nominally Jewish Communists, and this is explained completely by the fact that they were secular humanists, just like most of the nominally Orthodox Russians who were really atheists. Moreover, they had grown up in an atmosphere of official Russian Orthodoxy, almost amounting to Caesaropapism, very hostile to Jews in general.

But Stalin, Vyshinskii, and others responsible for the infamous Show Trials that Orwell wrote about in "Animal Farm" and "1984" were not Jews. Stalin was by heritage Russian Orthodox, though Georgian. Vyshinskii was born into a Roman Catholic family in Odessa. The victims of the biggest show trial, primarily Zinoviev and Kamenev, were Jewish.

I am not Jewish (lapsed Catholic, secular humanist is my self-designation), but I feel sorry for the people who share my secular humanist outlook and are not allowed to escape being labeled Jews, even though they have no contact with any synagogue or temple and do not observe Jewish rites. Not that there is any shame in BEING Jewish, but those who truly don't want to be shouldn't be described that way.

I was a friend of Raul Hilberg, author of "The Destruction of European Jewry," for many decades. He stated openly many times that he was an atheist, and never, as far as I know, observed any Jewish rites. But when he died, it was inevitable that there would be a memorial for him at the local reform synagogue. The rabbi must have felt a bit uneasy about this, because he opened the ceremony by explaining to us all that Judaism is a very wide tent, and no one can say with certainty who is inside it and who is outside. For those few hours anyway, Raul was inside. And of course, the Nazis in his native Vienna would certainly have put him inside, big-league, as the new phrase goes.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:33 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:I am not Jewish (lapsed Catholic, secular humanist is my self-designation), but I feel sorry for Jews who share my secular humanist outlook and are not allowed to escape being labeled Jews, even though they have no contact with any synagogue or temple and do not observe Jewish rites. Not that there is any shame in BEING Jewish, but those who truly don't want to be shouldn't be described that way.

I was a friend of Raul Hilberg, author of "The Destruction of European Jewry," for many decades. He stated openly many times that he was an atheist, and never, as far as I know, observed any Jewish rites. But when he died, it was inevitable that there would be a memorial for him at the local reform synagogue. The rabbi must have felt a bit uneasy about this, because he opened the ceremony by explaining to us all that Judaism is a very wide tent, and no one can say with certainty who is inside it and who is outside. For those few hours anyway, Raul was inside. And of course, the Nazis in his native Vienna would certainly have put him inside, big-league, as the new phrase goes.


I'm also a lapsed Catholic. My poor mother wanted a priest in the family, needless to say that didn't work out for her.

As for Raul Hilberg, that's interesting that you knew him. I've never read his book but I've read several articles written by him. I'm torn over his book(s), I can find the student version but I hate abridged works and the three volume set is pricey. Also, there have been several good books written after it that cover the same area with new information. There are no ebook versions that I know of.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:40 pm

I edited this, realizing that I had been guilty of what I was complaining about. I shouldn't have referred to "Jews" who share my outlook, given that it was precisely the labeling of them as jews that formed my main point.

Yeah, it's tough on the mothers when the boys don't stay in the faith. I know what that means. Fathers, not so much, although my Dad did go to St. Anthony's hospice to die; otherwise, I could see the disillusionment and lukewarm faith in him very clearly in the last few years of his life.
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:48 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:I edited this, realizing that I had been guilty of what I was complaining about. I shouldn't have referred to "Jews" who share my outlook, given that it was precisely the labeling of them as jews that formed my main point.

Yeah, it's tough on the mothers when the boys don't stay in the faith. I know what that means. Fathers, not so much, although my Dad did go to St. Anthony's hospice to die; otherwise, I could see the disillusionment and lukewarm faith in him very clearly in the last few years of his life.


My mother and I don't talk about it anymore and I go to church with her when she visits or I go see her.

My father was more understanding, he always encouraged me to read about things on my own and make up my own mind. My brother and younger sister are very strong with their faith but they are no longer Catholics, my older sister remained in the church.

Needless to say I'm a bit of a black sheep..... :D
I'm the only real liberal out of the bunch, my older sister is wildly intolerant, my brother and sister are more understanding.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:07 pm

Jeffk, Hilberg's three volumes are still required reading IMO. ;)

My grandfather was an evangelical Baptist preacher - Calvinist Baptist, hellfire and brimstone - and my grandmother was a missionary. My father has had it with religion by age 15, and left his father's church, gutsy move which my grandfather surprisingly seems to respect. Less tolerable was when my father married a Catholic neighbor.

My parents never once took us to a church. I never saw my grandfather preach but he used to send me carbon copies of his sermons. He was so conservative that he felt William Jennings Bryan was a dangerous modernizer. My father became a leftie LOL; he was pulled left mostly on civil rights at first. I was raised kind of do anything but learn from whatever you do. I wasn't told what to think but rather shown how to learn.

Btw when Rizoli says someone thinks like a Jew he means that the person, unlike him, thinks.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Jeffk, Hilberg's three volumes are still required reading IMO. ;)


The problem is finding copies that aren't so expensive as to make the Accountant (aka my wife) threaten to take me off the bank account.

:D

As as Jim goes, I tell him every chance I get that his level of understanding on this subject matches my youngest son....who is nine and couldn't spell "Holocaust" if I spotted him the h o l o c.

:lol:

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:48 pm

Lol

The price is daunting so I will be sending you a pm about that.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Less tolerable was when my father married a Catholic neighbor.


My grandfather comes from a Scottish Presbyterian family and my Grandmother was a French-Canadian Catholic. They met in the 1950's and suffice to say the situation with both of their families was at best messy and at worst nasty.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:34 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Less tolerable was when my father married a Catholic neighbor.


My grandfather comes from a Scottish Presbyterian family and my Grandmother was a French-Canadian Catholic. They met in the 1950's and suffice to say the situation with both of their families was at best messy and at worst nasty.


I had something similar, one of my mother's uncles married a Jewish woman. This uncle was Roman Catholic. After essentially getting cast out of the church he became an atheist. My mother told me that when they used to visit him they had to sneak out to go to the local church because he hated the local priest so much for what happened (keep in mind, this was the late 1940's/early 1950's). What made it worse is the woman's family essentially disowned her over what happened. They never had any children, which is sad but perhaps was a blessing.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:43 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Less tolerable was when my father married a Catholic neighbor.


My grandfather comes from a Scottish Presbyterian family and my Grandmother was a French-Canadian Catholic. They met in the 1950's and suffice to say the situation with both of their families was at best messy and at worst nasty.


I had something similar, one of my mother's uncles married a Jewish woman. This uncle was Roman Catholic. After essentially getting cast out of the church he became an atheist. My mother told me that when they used to visit him they had to sneak out to go to the local church because he hated the local priest so much for what happened (keep in mind, this was the late 1940's/early 1950's). What made it worse is the woman's family essentially disowned her over what happened. They never had any children, which is sad but perhaps was a blessing.


A sad tale. Marrying outside of your denomination is one thing but to do so outside your religion is another. I can't fathom how people do it today even.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Xcalibur » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:51 am

Je suis Juif...

Mary (the racial genius) could have probably figured that out if my screen name here had a "g" at the end. As in "iceburg", "goldburg" ,"ginsburg", "xcaliburg"....because she's smart that way. Kinda makes me wonder about RSHA hiring practices, did they always hire the halt?

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:56 am

Xcalibur wrote:Je suis Juif...


Reform, Orthodox, Masorti, Reconstructionalist, or Other?

Mary (the racial genius) could have probably figured that out if my screen name here had a "g" at the end. As in "iceburg", "goldburg" ,"ginsburg", "xcaliburg"....because she's smart that way. Kinda makes me wonder about RSHA hiring practices, did they always hire the halt?


Strange that both Jeffs get accused and you managed to fly under the radar lol. :lol:

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:00 am

ROTFL

I've also been called a Hasbara operative. I had no idea what that was, I had to go look it up.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:01 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:ROTFL

I've also been called a Hasbara operative. I had no idea what that was, I had to go look it up.


Hargis also called Nessie a "Zionist Jew". Berg seems to pull it out in everyone lol.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:03 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:ROTFL

I've also been called a Hasbara operative. I had no idea what that was, I had to go look it up.


Hargis also called Nessie a "Zionist Jew". Berg seems to pull it out in everyone lol.


Aryan Scolar...God, that always cracks me...has taken to calling everyone a Jew butt kisser.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:06 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:ROTFL

I've also been called a Hasbara operative. I had no idea what that was, I had to go look it up.


Hargis also called Nessie a "Zionist Jew". Berg seems to pull it out in everyone lol.


Aryan Scolar...God, that always cracks me...has taken to calling everyone a Jew butt kisser.


AS is about as dumb as monstrous but horribly unimaginative and limited in her/his vocabulary. I may add him/her to my list soon. :lol:

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:08 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:ROTFL

I've also been called a Hasbara operative. I had no idea what that was, I had to go look it up.


Hargis also called Nessie a "Zionist Jew". Berg seems to pull it out in everyone lol.


Aryan Scolar...God, that always cracks me...has taken to calling everyone a Jew butt kisser.


AS is about as dumb as monstrous but horribly unimaginative and limited in her/his vocabulary. I may add him/her to my list soon. :lol:


I think my list is stable for now....but, we'll see.

:D
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Xcalibur » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:18 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:Je suis Juif...


Reform, Orthodox, Masorti, Reconstructionalist, or Other?

Mary (the racial genius) could have probably figured that out if my screen name here had a "g" at the end. As in "iceburg", "goldburg" ,"ginsburg", "xcaliburg"....because she's smart that way. Kinda makes me wonder about RSHA hiring practices, did they always hire the halt?


Strange that both Jeffs get accused and you managed to fly under the radar lol. :lol:


i do weddings and funerals... which actually sounds RC somehow...

yeah and my wife hails from an old Southern protestant family... of Jew haters. It's been an adventure :lol:

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:26 am

Xcalibur wrote:
i do weddings and funerals... which actually sounds RC somehow...


One of my best friends is reform. I asked him what that meant and he told me "It means I stop to get a baconater from Burger King on my way back from the Synagogue the three times a year I go" LOL.

yeah and my wife hails from an old Southern protestant family... of Jew haters. It's been an adventure :lol:


Oh my.......

This seems to be a theme tonight from everyone lol.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:38 am

A good explination I once heard about the four types of Judaism:

If Judaism was a TV series...

Orthodox Jews were the obssesed fandoms who watched each episode countless times.

Secular-Orthodox (otherwise known as "traditionalism", exists almost somey in Israel) are those who watched it once and remember it and love but are not that crazy about it.

Conservatives are those who watched half the series and then quit.

A reformists are those who only watch the theme song
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:23 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Less tolerable was when my father married a Catholic neighbor.


My grandfather comes from a Scottish Presbyterian family and my Grandmother was a French-Canadian Catholic. They met in the 1950's and suffice to say the situation with both of their families was at best messy and at worst nasty.


I had something similar, one of my mother's uncles married a Jewish woman. This uncle was Roman Catholic. After essentially getting cast out of the church he became an atheist. My mother told me that when they used to visit him they had to sneak out to go to the local church because he hated the local priest so much for what happened (keep in mind, this was the late 1940's/early 1950's). What made it worse is the woman's family essentially disowned her over what happened. They never had any children, which is sad but perhaps was a blessing.

True story: when my evangelical Baptist grandmother was in her late 80s, she told my father and me about a very nice new neighbor, who, she told us, had been Catholic but then had converted to Christianity!
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:27 pm

Xcalibur wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:Je suis Juif...


Reform, Orthodox, Masorti, Reconstructionalist, or Other?

Mary (the racial genius) could have probably figured that out if my screen name here had a "g" at the end. As in "iceburg", "goldburg" ,"ginsburg", "xcaliburg"....because she's smart that way. Kinda makes me wonder about RSHA hiring practices, did they always hire the halt?


Strange that both Jeffs get accused and you managed to fly under the radar lol. :lol:


i do weddings and funerals... which actually sounds RC somehow...

yeah and my wife hails from an old Southern protestant family... of Jew haters. It's been an adventure :lol:

LOL
I had you pegged as a Mossad operative trying to use the cover of an Italian ID - Luigi or Carmine I believe - from the get-go.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:29 pm

Poosh used the Stürmer guide to Jew-spotting to out FP Berg as a Brooklyn Jew, not on INCE's list. FP Berg reacted to Pooshoodog's incessant taunting him about this in a way that was, shall we say, curious.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:20 pm

Xcalibur wrote:i do weddings and funerals.


You and the late George Jessel! No bar mitzvahs?

Bob Alper, a very funny rabbi/stand-up comedian who lives here in Vermont, tells of a Roman Catholic groom-to-be who went through the whole conversion process to marry his Jewish fiancée. After the guy was formally introduced to the congregation as a new-made Jew, Rabbi Alper said, "Congratulations!" and the man replied, "Thank you, Father."

Absolutely true story: a (now deceased) professor I knew at the University of Vermont, a native of Brooklyn, was vacationing in Oregon, where he fell into conversation with another tourist. After a few minutes, the other tourist said to him, "You're from Vermont, aren't you?" Rather surprised, my friend said, "Yes, but how did you know that?" The man replied, "You have the same accent as Bernie Sanders."
"A general conversion among the boys was once effected by the late excellent Mr. Fletcher: one poor boy only excepted, who unfortunately resisted the influence of the Holy Spirit, for which he was severely flogged; which did not fail of the desired effect, and impressed proper notions of religion on his mind."

James Lackington, Memoirs of the First Forty-five Years of the Life of James Lackington, the Present Bookseller

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby nickterry » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:37 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Absolutely true story: a (now deceased) professor I knew at the University of Vermont, a native of Brooklyn, was vacationing in Oregon, where he fell into conversation with another tourist. After a few minutes, the other tourist said to him, "You're from Vermont, aren't you?" Rather surprised, my friend said, "Yes, but how did you know that?" The man replied, "You have the same accent as Bernie Sanders."


LOL.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:37 pm

X2
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 12:53 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:This is a canard (blood libel?) that props up time and time again in radical right wing publications. It is occasionally used to justify the Einsatzgruppen killings of 41'.

Some points on this fallacy.

1. All of the leading Jewish members of the Russian Revolution were hardcore antitheist atheists. Without exception. And unlike most atheist Jews (like Milton Freidman or Geddy Lee) they utterly rejected the Jewish culture and the Jewish identity as well. So in essence they were former Jews who did not think of themselves as Jewish anymore. Trotsky even stated "I am not a Jew, I am an internationalist." Communism was their religion and they should be viewed through that lenses. In essence they were about as Jewish as Hitler, Himmler, Globocnik, and Eichmann were Catholic.

2. Jews suffered terribly under the Romanovs and it is only logical that radicalism be prominent in secular Jewish culture at the time. And this radicalism mostly took the form of Zionism or more moderate forms of communism. The Bolshevik Party was the choice for a minority who were willing to reject their religion and culture and embrace borderless international proletarianisim.

3. Yes the Bolsheviks did enforce a ban on anti-Semitism, but it was in the context of general discouragement on ethnic divisions in light of their new ideology. This was not a pro-Jewish measure so much as it was a reversal of one of the defining attributes of the overthrown government for it's own sake.

4. They also worked to combat Zionism and Judaism, seeking the assimilation of Jews into the masses. The Jewish wing of the party (the Yevsektstra) was tasked with anhilating Judaism and combating Zionist groups, the members of whom either jumped ship or emigrated. Tell me Moonbats, what kind of "ewvil joosish dicktatership" bans Zionism and the Jewish religion?

5. No one can deny the suffering caused by socialism, or the role played by the deplorable Genrikh Yogoda. However these were not crimes carried out by Jews against Christians motivated by religious hatred (as David Duke will have you believe), but crimes carried out by atheists (like Yogoda, who was emphatically atheist) against perceived enemies of their creed. And even then, Yogoda and his minions were operating under the orders of Lenin and later Stalin (both gentiles). The responsibility for the Holodomar lies solely with Stalin. Anyway, Yogoda was purged by Stalin a few years later and replaced by Yhezov, and later Beria (both gentiles)

6. The average victim of the holocaust was not communist. A huge proportion of them were poor, rural religious Jews from Poland who would have detested communism.

7. And all of this is a moot point because by the time the war started the Old Bolsheviks (a significant percentage of which were ex-Jews) had been entirely killed off by Stalin and the Communist party was essentially purged of Jews with few exceptions (one of them being Lazar Kagovich, a fanatical Stalinist who was spared for his slavish loyalty). The NKDV by that point was only 4% Jewish, and all of those were not "Jews" in any traditional sense of the word.
All those Nazi rantings about "Judeo-Bolshevisim" in the lead up to Operation Barbarossa were pure horseshit. It would have been horseshit twenty years before when there actually HAD been ethnic Jews in the Communist leadership, but in 1941 it was especially absurd.

8. Karl Marx was baptized Lutheran and made disparaging remarks about "bourgeois Jewish Capitalism" at least once.

Anyone have anything else to add? Anything at all would be good. This may not be explicitly connected to the Holocaust but many use it to trivialize The Holocaust or even justify it.


I've posted the OP in the comment section of this video. As you can tell by the mere title of the video, the comment are filled with alt-right memelord doucheboyz. This will be interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUGkKKAogDs
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 08, 2017 2:15 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:This is a canard (blood libel?) that props up time and time again in radical right wing publications. It is occasionally used to justify the Einsatzgruppen killings of 41'.

Some points on this fallacy.

1. All of the leading Jewish members of the Russian Revolution were hardcore antitheist atheists. Without exception. And unlike most atheist Jews (like Milton Freidman or Geddy Lee) they utterly rejected the Jewish culture and the Jewish identity as well. So in essence they were former Jews who did not think of themselves as Jewish anymore. Trotsky even stated "I am not a Jew, I am an internationalist." Communism was their religion and they should be viewed through that lenses. In essence they were about as Jewish as Hitler, Himmler, Globocnik, and Eichmann were Catholic.

2. Jews suffered terribly under the Romanovs and it is only logical that radicalism be prominent in secular Jewish culture at the time. And this radicalism mostly took the form of Zionism or more moderate forms of communism. The Bolshevik Party was the choice for a minority who were willing to reject their religion and culture and embrace borderless international proletarianisim.

3. Yes the Bolsheviks did enforce a ban on anti-Semitism, but it was in the context of general discouragement on ethnic divisions in light of their new ideology. This was not a pro-Jewish measure so much as it was a reversal of one of the defining attributes of the overthrown government for it's own sake.

4. They also worked to combat Zionism and Judaism, seeking the assimilation of Jews into the masses. The Jewish wing of the party (the Yevsektstra) was tasked with anhilating Judaism and combating Zionist groups, the members of whom either jumped ship or emigrated. Tell me Moonbats, what kind of "ewvil joosish dicktatership" bans Zionism and the Jewish religion?

5. No one can deny the suffering caused by socialism, or the role played by the deplorable Genrikh Yogoda. However these were not crimes carried out by Jews against Christians motivated by religious hatred (as David Duke will have you believe), but crimes carried out by atheists (like Yogoda, who was emphatically atheist) against perceived enemies of their creed. And even then, Yogoda and his minions were operating under the orders of Lenin and later Stalin (both gentiles). The responsibility for the Holodomar lies solely with Stalin. Anyway, Yogoda was purged by Stalin a few years later and replaced by Yhezov, and later Beria (both gentiles)

6. The average victim of the holocaust was not communist. A huge proportion of them were poor, rural religious Jews from Poland who would have detested communism.

7. And all of this is a moot point because by the time the war started the Old Bolsheviks (a significant percentage of which were ex-Jews) had been entirely killed off by Stalin and the Communist party was essentially purged of Jews with few exceptions (one of them being Lazar Kagovich, a fanatical Stalinist who was spared for his slavish loyalty). The NKDV by that point was only 4% Jewish, and all of those were not "Jews" in any traditional sense of the word.
All those Nazi rantings about "Judeo-Bolshevisim" in the lead up to Operation Barbarossa were pure horseshit. It would have been horseshit twenty years before when there actually HAD been ethnic Jews in the Communist leadership, but in 1941 it was especially absurd.

8. Karl Marx was baptized Lutheran and made disparaging remarks about "bourgeois Jewish Capitalism" at least once.

Anyone have anything else to add? Anything at all would be good. This may not be explicitly connected to the Holocaust but many use it to trivialize The Holocaust or even justify it.


I've posted the OP in the comment section of this video. As you can tell by the mere title of the video, the comment are filled with alt-right memelord doucheboyz. This will be interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUGkKKAogDs


HITLER’S INCONSISTENCIES

Hitler accuses the Jews of Machiavellian intentions upon the life of the world, but these intentions seem to differ according to the page of Hitler's book which one reads. On one page the Jews are accused of the nefarious purpose of desiring the triumph of Parliamentarism. A few pages further on they have suddenly changed their purpose to that of dominating the world by spreading Bolshevism.

Indeed, Hitler looks upon the Bolshevik Revolution as a Jewish scheme to conquer the world, blissfully unaware of the fact that Lenin was no Jew, that Stalin is no Jew, that the most powerful Jews in the world are allied to capitalism, and that the Jewish shopkeeper is the greatest sufferer in a proletarian revolution. But these little inconsistencies do not matter in the eyes of Nazis, for Nazis are quite capable of believing that Jewish lie! Bolsheviks are working for the triumph of Jewish High Finance and that Jewish High Finance is subsidising a world revolution

Even Jewish jokes are regarded by many Nazis as part of the subtle scheme of world domination by the Jews. Hitler suggests that the Jews try to depict themselves in comic newspapers as a harmless, humorous people in order to mislead public opinion into thinking that they are no danger.


http://www.garethjones.org/german_articles/under_hitler_3.htm
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon May 08, 2017 3:14 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:I've posted the OP in the comment section of this video. As you can tell by the mere title of the video, the comment are filled with alt-right memelord doucheboyz. This will be interesting.


Make sure to add that communism was horrible and awful.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 3:19 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:I've posted the OP in the comment section of this video. As you can tell by the mere title of the video, the comment are filled with alt-right memelord doucheboyz. This will be interesting.


Make sure to add that communism was horrible and awful.

You've already mentioned it in the OP.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon May 08, 2017 4:58 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:This is a canard (blood libel?) that props up time and time again in radical right wing publications. It is occasionally used to justify the Einsatzgruppen killings of 41'.

Some points on this fallacy.

1. All of the leading Jewish members of the Russian Revolution were hardcore antitheist atheists. Without exception. And unlike most atheist Jews (like Milton Freidman or Geddy Lee) they utterly rejected the Jewish culture and the Jewish identity as well. So in essence they were former Jews who did not think of themselves as Jewish anymore. Trotsky even stated "I am not a Jew, I am an internationalist." Communism was their religion and they should be viewed through that lenses. In essence they were about as Jewish as Hitler, Himmler, Globocnik, and Eichmann were Catholic.

2. Jews suffered terribly under the Romanovs and it is only logical that radicalism be prominent in secular Jewish culture at the time. And this radicalism mostly took the form of Zionism or more moderate forms of communism. The Bolshevik Party was the choice for a minority who were willing to reject their religion and culture and embrace borderless international proletarianisim.

3. Yes the Bolsheviks did enforce a ban on anti-Semitism, but it was in the context of general discouragement on ethnic divisions in light of their new ideology. This was not a pro-Jewish measure so much as it was a reversal of one of the defining attributes of the overthrown government for it's own sake.

4. They also worked to combat Zionism and Judaism, seeking the assimilation of Jews into the masses. The Jewish wing of the party (the Yevsektstra) was tasked with anhilating Judaism and combating Zionist groups, the members of whom either jumped ship or emigrated. Tell me Moonbats, what kind of "ewvil joosish dicktatership" bans Zionism and the Jewish religion?

5. No one can deny the suffering caused by socialism, or the role played by the deplorable Genrikh Yogoda. However these were not crimes carried out by Jews against Christians motivated by religious hatred (as David Duke will have you believe), but crimes carried out by atheists (like Yogoda, who was emphatically atheist) against perceived enemies of their creed. And even then, Yogoda and his minions were operating under the orders of Lenin and later Stalin (both gentiles). The responsibility for the Holodomar lies solely with Stalin. Anyway, Yogoda was purged by Stalin a few years later and replaced by Yhezov, and later Beria (both gentiles)

6. The average victim of the holocaust was not communist. A huge proportion of them were poor, rural religious Jews from Poland who would have detested communism.

7. And all of this is a moot point because by the time the war started the Old Bolsheviks (a significant percentage of which were ex-Jews) had been entirely killed off by Stalin and the Communist party was essentially purged of Jews with few exceptions (one of them being Lazar Kagovich, a fanatical Stalinist who was spared for his slavish loyalty). The NKDV by that point was only 4% Jewish, and all of those were not "Jews" in any traditional sense of the word.
All those Nazi rantings about "Judeo-Bolshevisim" in the lead up to Operation Barbarossa were pure horseshit. It would have been horseshit twenty years before when there actually HAD been ethnic Jews in the Communist leadership, but in 1941 it was especially absurd.

8. Karl Marx was baptized Lutheran and made disparaging remarks about "bourgeois Jewish Capitalism" at least once.

Anyone have anything else to add? Anything at all would be good. This may not be explicitly connected to the Holocaust but many use it to trivialize The Holocaust or even justify it.


I've posted the OP in the comment section of this video. As you can tell by the mere title of the video, the comment are filled with alt-right memelord doucheboyz. This will be interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUGkKKAogDs


Also, where do these idiots get the idea that "Communism isn't as hated as Nazism"? Lol, several Western countries spent the last 60+ years fighting and demonizing communism. NATO was founded because of communism, and a lot of the (well founded) distrust of Modern Russia is because of the legacy of communism. Idiots.

It's also worth mentioning that the US, the Vatican and a lot of people hired ex Nazis precisely because they wanted to use them against the communists, whom they hated more than the Nazis. Hitler's chief of staff actually served as the head of NATO. I guess admitting that the US And others hired and protected the killers of Jews from Jewish Nazi hunters who wanted to bring them to justice would mean admitting that the Jews don't control the world, in addition to admitting that the claim (Nazism is hated more than communism) is fundamentally false.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 6:20 pm

GOT MY FIRST REPLY!
  No they didn't, they hated gentiles just the same and ended up killing millions of them. They were even bankrolled by American capitalist jews like Warburg and Schiff. Don't forget that it was also jewish communists who tried to do a similar revolution in Germany after WW I, but luckily failed. Communism is jewish to the core, just a way to implement a system for jews to rule of gentiles under the guise of equality for everyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Re ... E2%80%9319

"The communist soul is the soul of judaism. Hence it follows that , just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of communism was the triumph of judaism."
- Rabbi Harry Waton, A Program For The Jews And Humanity (1939)  


All this comes from a commenter who calls himserlf Jeb Bush. Hmmmm....
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 08, 2017 6:31 pm

I love the "Biblebelievers" quotations these guys use, like Jabotinsky's barn-burner from Natscha Retsch, Mascha Rjetsch, or Tatscha Retsch, depending on who is spouting off. I tried for months, well, maybe weeks, to get someone at Rodoh to give me a source for Jabotinsky's horrific admission. Nada. IIRC Waton's book at least existed. But still, a rather low bar.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 6:40 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I love the "Biblebelievers" quotations these guys use, like Jabotinsky's barn-burner from Natscha Retsch, Mascha Rjetsch, or Tatscha Retsch, depending on who is spouting off. I tried for months, well, maybe weeks, to get someone at Rodoh to give me a source for Jabotinsky's horrific admission. Nada. IIRC Waton's book at least existed. But still, a rather low bar.


I googled Harry Watton and literally all the results are right wing/nazi/christian fundementalist sites. The guy doesn't have a Wikipedia page. Even if he and his book exist, he is obviously an extremley obsucre Rabbi, probably more known to anti-semites than Jews. And if he is is indeed a pro-communist religous Jew, than he is part of an extremley tiny minority. As I mentioned, Judaism is, in general, a very capitalist religion and has many examples of liberal economy and social structues in it, which means that this Waton guy's opinion is very far from the mainstream.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 08, 2017 6:48 pm

I think there's a PDF of his book somewhere on the Web. IIRC it's a diatribe against Nazism and Stalinism in which he reinvents the word "communism" to mean more or less "public service" or "the general welfare." As you say, I recall it as not exactly a masterwork and as totally obscure. The oft-used Jabotinsky quotation on the other hand seems spurious as opposed to cherrypicked.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 8:42 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:GOT MY FIRST REPLY!
  No they didn't, they hated gentiles just the same and ended up killing millions of them. They were even bankrolled by American capitalist jews like Warburg and Schiff. Don't forget that it was also jewish communists who tried to do a similar revolution in Germany after WW I, but luckily failed. Communism is jewish to the core, just a way to implement a system for jews to rule of gentiles under the guise of equality for everyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Re ... E2%80%9319

"The communist soul is the soul of judaism. Hence it follows that , just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of communism was the triumph of judaism."
- Rabbi Harry Waton, A Program For The Jews And Humanity (1939)  


All this comes from a commenter who calls himserlf Jeb Bush. Hmmmm....


Georege Bush's brother has struck again!

  You can't deny blood, that is just utter BS. And i'm not a christian i don't care about what's in the bible. I care about what jews have been doing to other peoples since the moment they set foot on this earth. Texts about jews being hated for their practices go back thousands of years. There's a reason they were universally loathed and banished from over 100 places all over history. And no it's not because of some inherent antisemitism every gentile has, or because jews were so 'successful', if that's what you want to call leeching off a society while producing nothing of value.

Every single jew should be moved to some far off Island in the middle of the ocean and be forbidden to ever set foot in another country again on penalty of death. That's the only solution.  


Oh boy where do I begin.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 08, 2017 8:50 pm

Suggest Madagascar and be done with the {!#%@}.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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