refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

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Im_Not_Creative_Enough
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Mon May 08, 2017 8:57 pm

I just did.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon May 08, 2017 9:00 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote: Don't forget that it was also jewish communists who tried to do a similar revolution in Germany after WW I


The KPD had very few Jewish members. Most German Jews supported the DDP party.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon May 08, 2017 9:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think there's a PDF of his book somewhere on the Web. IIRC it's a diatribe against Nazism and Stalinism


Stalinisim can be argued to be the logical conclusion of the Russian revolution. The toitarian structures that Stalin used had been put in place by Lenin in the decade beforehand.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 08, 2017 9:11 pm

IIRC Waton's book, written in 1939, is more "theoretical" than historical - my recollection is that it's not very coherent - but he wrote as much against the early Bolsheviks as he did against Stalin. He was dismissive of communism in general as a movement. He saw all these efforts as requiring dictatorships. He probably didn't use the phrase Stalinism - I used it thinking of the time in which he wrote. Again, on memory, Waton identified Nazism and Stalinism, Hitler and Stalin, which is another dubious argument IMO. Please don't make me find this POS and look at it again! :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue May 09, 2017 8:41 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Suggest Madagascar and be done with the {!#%@}.


I read something similar yesterday, and kind of shocked me. Leaving this neonazi's lies about the alleged new Israeli law aside, is it legally OK to say such things? Is it a permitted discourse? I know, first amendment etc, but isn't this incitement to violence?
In Europe, words like these are too hard to swallow, I think.

Two last paragraphs, we can see what these scumbags are dreaming and what they are up to:

- This stupid double standard needs to end. Once we remove Jews from our nations this will no longer be a problem. It is time that we look at a way to make this a reality.
DNA tests could be used to filter racial Jews from non-Jews. Once that’s done, we could easily begin banning these horrible creatures and enforce these bans with science and technology. All that we need from our people is the political will to do these things.

https://archive.is/cTuUl#selection-829.0-841.260

Same with this. Is it OK to address little kids with such a language?
https://archive.is/hd0gb
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sphinx » Tue May 09, 2017 9:30 am

• Trotsky was hunted down and brutally assassinated in Mexico on Stalin’s orders during the Great Purge; a bad way to reward „the Jews”, who were allegedly behind communism. Stalin would certainly have spared the Jews if he „was paid” by them.

• Lenin died being 53 years old, which left Stalin alone in power.

• Stalin, the man responsible for the majority of atrocities attributed to Communism, was not a Jew, not at all. Stalin studied at a Georgian Orthodox seminary in Tiflis to become a priest (he did not finish though).

Many Jews fell victim to the Great Purges, and there is evidence that Jews were specifically targeted by Stalin, who harbored antisemitic sentiments all his life (main article:Antisemitism and Joseph Stalin). A number of the most prominent victims of the Purges—Trotsky, Zinoviev, and Kamenev, to name a few—were Jewish, and in 1939 Stalin gave Molotov an explicit order to fully purge the ministry of Foreign Affairs of Jews, in anticipation of rapprochement with Nazi Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... _campaigns


• the Soviet Union for most of its years was per its own doctrine strongly opposed to Zionism (so called „Jewish nationalism” or „bourgeois nationalism”), especially during the cold war when it called Israel a terrorist and racist state and even spread classic antisemitic conspiracy theories; it only shortly adopted a pro-Zionist policy as it hoped Israel would become an allied communist state – NOT a Jewish one. Not what one would expect from allegedly Jewish-controlled communism.

"In late July 1967, Moscow launched an unprecedented propaganda campaign against Zionism as a "world threat." Defeat [in the Six-Day War] was attributed not to tiny Israel alone, but to an "all-powerful international force."

[…]

the mass media "all over the Soviet Union portrayed the Zionists (i.e. Jews) and Israeli leaders as engaged in a world-wide conspiracy along the lines of the old Protocols of Zion.

[…]

The Israeli government was also referred to as a "terrorist regime" which "has raised terror to the level of state politics."

[…]

"It is in the teachings of Judaism, in the Old Testament, and in the Talmud, that the Israeli militarists find inspiration for their inhuman deeds, racist theories, and expansionist designs..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Anti-Zionism


• the Soviet Union was a major driving force behind the most infamous UN resolution 3379 which condemned „Zionism as a form of racism” in 1975

• in his late years Stalin openly persecuted Jews and started some purges (see for example the Night of the Murdered Poets and the Doctor’s Plot); it looks like Stalin only supported Jewish factions like the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee and saw a need to camouflage his Antisemitism as long as it was absolutely necessary, i.e. during the war against Nazi Germany. It’s disputed among historians, but some believe there’s enough evidence to show that Stalin already planned the mass deportation of Jews. Stalin would have certainly not have done all this if he „was paid by the Jews”.

• even the so called „Jewish Utopia” in South Siberia – not a very inviting piece of land BTW – which is often named as an example for the alleged Jewishness of the Soviet Union by Antisemites was NOT meant to support genuine Jewish culture:

According to Joseph Stalin's national policy, each [i.e. not exclusively Jews] of the national groups that formed the Soviet Union would receive a territory in which to pursue cultural autonomy in a socialist framework. In that sense, it also responded to two supposed threats to the Soviet state:

- Judaism, which ran counter to official state policy of atheism
- Zionism — the advocacy of a Jewish national state in Palestine — which countered Soviet views of nationalism.

The Soviets envisaged setting up a new "Soviet Zion", where a proletarian Jewish culture could be developed. Yiddish, rather than Hebrew, would be the national language, and a new socialist literature and arts would replace religion as the primary expression of culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Au ... the_region


• a truly genuine Jewish culture was strongly discouraged in the Soviet Union; the anti-religious stance of communism did not stop in front of Judaism. Antisemitism thrived after the war. Jewish life actually crippled in the USSR. Today there’s only a very small percentage of mostly secular Jews remaining in Russia (0.16%). Not what one would expect from a „Jewish-Communist conspiracy“.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_antisemitism_on_the_part_of_Joseph_Stalin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot#Alleged_planned_deportation_of_Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Anti-Zionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Tue May 09, 2017 12:03 pm

Great post and welcome to the forum.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Tue May 09, 2017 12:11 pm

Sphinx wrote:
• a truly genuine Jewish culture was strongly discouraged in the Soviet Union; the anti-religious stance of communism did not stop in front of Judaism. Antisemitism thrived after the war. Jewish life actually crippled in the USSR. Today there’s only a very small percentage of mostly secular Jews remaining in Russia (0.16%). Not what one would expect from a „Jewish-Communist conspiracy“.


Not only that - even the ethnic Jews who escaped the USSR in the 1990s never got over the Soviet- Anti-jewish brainwash. Most of them are still Atheists and at least half of them never really got involved in the Israeli culture, but rather stay in a self-structured Russian cultural ghetto. My family is from Russia, and the fact the both my parents are Jewish is quite a small miracle.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 09, 2017 12:13 pm

Welcome, Sphinx. Very nice summary.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 09, 2017 12:22 pm

Another development (described for example by Braham and Stark in their works on Hungary) I've not seen deniers grapple with is that large numbers of Jews fled the eastern and southern European workers' paradises for, mostly, the US and Israel in the late '40s and when they were able to get out after that. (This connects to Sphinx's last bullet point.) Why were so many Jews fleeing the countries they supposedly controlled and which supposedly reflected their Bolshevik values?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 09, 2017 3:35 pm

Welcome to the forum, Sphinx.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 pm

Sphinx wrote: It’s disputed among historians, but some believe there’s enough evidence to show that Stalin already planned the mass deportation of Jews. Stalin would have certainly not have done all this if he „was paid by the Jews”.

Honestly, the "evidence" for such deportation plans is on par with the "evidence" for the Nazi Jewish soap. About as quirky and rare as it is unreliable.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Tue May 09, 2017 7:18 pm

Sphinx wrote: It’s disputed among historians, but some believe there’s enough evidence to show that Stalin already planned the mass deportation of Jews. Stalin would have certainly not have done all this if he „was paid by the Jews”.
Not a tone of evidence exists, the best evidence that was produced is in the book "Stalins last crime". It published a document talking about the construction of four new concentration camps. Other then this the best we have is Khrushchevs claim that Stalin was planning to, and the insinuation that a written order isn't demanded of.

This aside welcome to the forum.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue May 09, 2017 7:33 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Sphinx wrote: It’s disputed among historians, but some believe there’s enough evidence to show that Stalin already planned the mass deportation of Jews. Stalin would have certainly not have done all this if he „was paid by the Jews”.
Not a tone of evidence exists, the best evidence that was produced is in the book "Stalins last crime". It published a document talking about the construction of four new concentration camps. Other then this the best we have is Khrushchevs claim that Stalin was planning to, and the insinuation that a written order isn't demanded of.

This aside welcome to the forum.

It's a tad more complicated than that, and involves some lies and forgeries and fake testimonies and rumors likely morphing into false memories, but yes, in the end there is no credible evidence for this, individually or cumulatively.


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