refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:28 am

I remembered the following. Sergey Romanov once quoted some dumbass denier as follows:

http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/1 ... ments.html

Herbert Tiedemann wrote:
After the end of the war the Soviets turned the ravine of Babi Yar into a municipal garbage dump, and later into a garbage incineration site.[116]

That the Soviets intended to build a sports facility over the site of indescribable crimes is no less incomprehensible…[117],[118]

To the best of this author's knowledge, Khrushchev's reprimand to Yevtushenko was never made public in the western world. Did this terse rebuke perhaps reflect the plain and simple truth?

Just what is self-evident about Babi Yar?


The answer should be obvious, to normal people. It's that, contrary to Moronstrous's pretensions, the role of Jewish communists isn't remarkable. Moronstrous lied to us when he said that "some Soviet or Jew" in Switzerland faked an intelligence report. The Soviets didn't fake anything, and they wouldn't because they were not controlled by Jews.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:24 am

^Monstrous implied that the Swiss Military Intelligence Service was controlled by "Communist Jews". At that point I knew he had lost the argument.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:39 am

NathanC wrote:I remembered the following. Sergey Romanov once quoted some dumbass denier as follows:

http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/1 ... ments.html

Herbert Tiedemann wrote:
After the end of the war the Soviets turned the ravine of Babi Yar into a municipal garbage dump, and later into a garbage incineration site.[116]

That the Soviets intended to build a sports facility over the site of indescribable crimes is no less incomprehensible…[117],[118]

To the best of this author's knowledge, Khrushchev's reprimand to Yevtushenko was never made public in the western world. Did this terse rebuke perhaps reflect the plain and simple truth?

Just what is self-evident about Babi Yar?


The answer should be obvious, to normal people. It's that, contrary to Moronstrous's pretensions, the role of Jewish communists isn't remarkable. Moronstrous lied to us when he said that "some Soviet or Jew" in Switzerland faked an intelligence report. The Soviets didn't fake anything, and they wouldn't because they were not controlled by Jews.

Paper by Karel Berkhoff discussing history of the Babi Yar site. I heard Berhoff present a version of this paper in 2012 and have half-decent notes from his talk, which was excellent.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:34 pm

I have been reviewing membership lists of Soviet Troikas during the repressions of 1936-1938. Troikas were three person bodies that oversaw executions and imprisonments of many innocents during Stalin's regime. I have not made calculations as of yet (it is a gigantic list) but persons of Jewish extraction appear to make up approximately 14% of the members. The compositions vary tremendously on a regional basis. For example Jews were absent in the Armenian and Karelean SSR as well as the Gorky Region and the Chelyabinsk Oblast. They made up about 20% of the members in the Belaroussian SSR and in West Siberia for some reason. The Percentage of Jewish members of Troikas in the Crimean SSR and in the Kiev region were lower than I anticipated. Overall Latvians were very over represented and formed a majority in some areas. Ethnic Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians were the most commonly represented nationalities, and the Kazakh and Georgian Troikas were comprised totally of members of Kazakh and Georgian nationalities.

While the persons of Jewish nationality were represented in numbers greater than their portion of the population, the percentage was far from sufficient to state that they dominated the Troikas.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:07 am

The problem is that in 1919 official reports were blaming jews left and right as seen here: https://archive.org/details/RussiaNo.11 ... Russia1.ed.
WTF?

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:47 pm

Its cause the Russian whites were anti-semetic and were releasing Jewish communist propaganda.

Image

Image
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:26 am

So they based their reports on propaganda?...while I want to believe that this video goes into deeper details with examples: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeRDqiSA7Q

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:27 am

ryu wrote:So they based their reports on propaganda?...while I want to believe that this video goes into deeper details with examples: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeRDqiSA7Q


First off why deal with this? It's quite simple... Where were the Americans generally most likely getting information about the Russian reds? Easy the Russian whites! Who was feeding out antisemitic rhetoric? The Russian whites! Who ate up the antisemitic rhetoric? Apparently Americans.

Or maybe you could just listen as Its the origin of the paper... Also, guess what! These documents are not from the USSR Russians themselves. The rise of such rumors was fueled by a mass spreading of the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" by the Russian government... You have heard of the 1900's pogroms? Right? Anyway the Russian secret police took the work of some priest who stole the writings of an early critic of napoleon the III.

And If the posters didn't help you enough to understand the American reports were based off influence from Anti-semetic Russian whites, then do I need to explain that in 1919 the Russian whites had started the 2nd Kiev pogrom?

As well, an average argument deniers make is that the Jews were disproportionate in power early on.

Image

Aka making up around 5% of the party, but the Jews are not the only one. This is the numbers for 1924.

Gerrits attempts to separate the myth from the reality. He considers the lack of reliable empirical data on Jewish Communism, and raises four key observations. Firstly, Jews were not the only ethnic minority over-represented in European Communist parties between the two world wars. So too were Georgians, Armenians and Latvians.


http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=19150#.V3egFjXoTfZ

Based off a population representation the 3 groups above hardly should have even passed 1%.

The Russian whites also created a pamphlet in 1917 called "The Jewish Bolshevism". In every conspiracy there is always a bit of truth... But they always blow that truth out of proportion. So far I have only seen outside evidence and pushing past the fact that the American forces were working hand in hand with the Russian whites just makes it all the more obvious.

Also why in the hell would you even take this video seriously.... It claims the following:

Image

Which is complete BS.

During the February Revolution the Party had 23,000 members 364 of them were Jewish. Hardly any Jews in the very start of the party.

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/english/39.html

For the very first official government that would be December 30, 1922. And according to the 1924 census it was only 5%. Its just Stormfront Propaganda claiming the 90%.

And just to add in 1929 there were only 55 Jews left... They had hardly any control at all in the first established government and their numbers only dropped as time went on.

If your truely interested in this subject, then I would ask you to buy this book.

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Jewish-Communism-Historical-Interpretation/dp/9052014655
Last edited by Denying-History on Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:45 am


Agree, this book is worth reading. Gerrits studies the social and political reasons for this conspiracy theory to have originated and survived; the book isn't a refutation of the theory per se, but information and explanation in the narrative do so.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:07 pm

Oh and "The Slaughter of the Jews in the Ukraine in 1919" is a great book on the pogroms if you can get your hands on it.

If you want to read it but don't want to spend money, I do know of an archive.org upload.

https://archive.org/details/slaughterofjewsi00heifuoft

I hope this helps Ryu.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:17 pm

Denying-History wrote:Oh and "The Slaughter of the Jews in the Ukraine in 1919" is a great book on the pogroms if you can get your hands on it.

If you want to read it but don't want to spend money, I do know of an archive.org upload.

https://archive.org/details/slaughterofjewsi00heifuoft

I hope this helps Ryu.


Thanks for the book.

Stack keeps growing.......I found a copy of Michael Shermer's book on Holocaust Denial on line, I've been reading it. Oddly, I think k0nsl is the one who posted it:

https://pdf.k0nsl.org/D/Denying%20Histo ... robman.pdf

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:27 pm

Of course K0nsl put it up... I guess that Antisemite doesn't know what copyrights laws are... I believe last time I checked copyright lasts for 70 years... And I don't think posting the entire book falls under fair use.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:50 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:

Agree, this book is worth reading. Gerrits studies the social and political reasons for this conspiracy theory to have originated and survived; the book isn't a refutation of the theory per se, but information and explanation in the narrative do so.


There are numerical figures that refute any allegation of Jewish domination. For example, although Jews were overrepresented on the first politburo, the first Bolshevik cabinets had only one Jewish minister. In the 30's there was only one Jew on the politburo.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:53 pm

At the first party congress in 1917 or 18, IIRC Jews made up about 18% of attendees. Disproportionate but hardly dominate.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:01 pm

I believe it was lower then 18% Jeff. Especially with only 364 Jews being official members of the party.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:25 pm

Not only which, "the Jews" is such a CT concept in the way anti-Semites use it here: Jews supported a welter of parties, had different religious and political perspectives, diverged in terms of economic interest, and so on.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:27 pm

Denying-History wrote:I believe it was lower then 18% Jeff. Especially with only 364 Jews being official members of the party.


This was in 1918 IIRC, after they had snagged some defections from the LSR's and the Menshiviks. Not 90% by any means lol. And by the late twenties the numbers were under ten % for the top leadership.

Latvians seemed to be hugely overrepresented for some reason, especially in the early Cheka. Indeed the architects of the Red Terror were mainly Latvian, as was the NKVD officer who oversaw the Ukrainian famine, and yet no one blames the Latvians for communism. In fact, as far as I can recall, Latvians seem to be aggressively anticommunist.

The only historical instance of "Jewish Bolshivisim" that I can find is in Bela Kun's 35 second epic failure of an attempted dictatorship in Hungary. The numbers there were around 80%, take note moonbats, that is what dominance looks like. And even there, Kun's people were not shy about attacking their fellow Jews. Hungarian Jews were known for being assimilated and middle class, by all accounts Kun's people were the riff raff.

he numbers were far lower in Russia,

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:55 pm

Thanks guys :) I feel much better. Still it does sound like all non jews outside russia couldn't do math....and jews at at time outside russia wanted to be part of this big new thing they heard of...

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:10 pm

ryu wrote:Thanks guys :) I feel much better. Still it does sound like all non jews outside russia couldn't do math....and jews at at time outside russia wanted to be part of this big new thing they heard of...


Its not that they couldn't do math, its that the Russian whites were telling them that majority of the leadership of the communist were Jews. The Americans didn't have their hands on any form of Political statistics. As well who was really in control of Russia was questionable.

But you are welcome.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:53 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Oh and "The Slaughter of the Jews in the Ukraine in 1919" is a great book on the pogroms if you can get your hands on it.

If you want to read it but don't want to spend money, I do know of an archive.org upload.

https://archive.org/details/slaughterofjewsi00heifuoft

I hope this helps Ryu.


Thanks for the book.

Stack keeps growing.......I found a copy of Michael Shermer's book on Holocaust Denial on line, I've been reading it. Oddly, I think k0nsl is the one who posted it:

https://pdf.k0nsl.org/D/Denying%20Histo ... robman.pdf


I like how K0nsl's PDF website has an entire folder dedicated to 911.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:11 pm

Well, once a conspiraloon, always a conspiraloon

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:22 pm

I just received news that Elie Wiesel passed away.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:46 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I just received news that Elie Wiesel passed away.


Thats awful news... but I'm sure its also going to lead to a Denier Uproar, and it will most likely be focused around his tattoo.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:46 pm

thanks Jeffk, I just now saw that on the Guardian after you posted this
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:14 pm

They like to blame jews for the Holodormor genocide: http://takimag.com/article/another_word ... z2kSwXc7EN
Ignoring that jews were barley involved when theirs {!#%@} went down but helped break the story outside the USSR, there is evidence that bad weather and peasants revolting added to the issues at hand, not that Stalin's response made things better: https://web.archive.org/web/20110809014 ... t_articles

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:25 pm

Deniers also gloss over the fact that Stalin himself was an anti-Semite. Before Stalin died he was reving up another purge, this time against Soviet Jews. He also became an enemy of Isreal.
Which, naturally, begs the question:
Why, if the Holocaust was a hoax, would the Soviets continue to support it?
Why not blow the whole thing open, claiming they were duped by Jews?

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:30 pm

That too.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:44 pm

ryu wrote:They like to blame jews for the Holodormor genocide: http://takimag.com/article/another_word ... z2kSwXc7EN
Ignoring that jews were barley involved when theirs {!#%@} went down but helped break the story outside the USSR, there is evidence that bad weather and peasants revolting added to the issues at hand, not that Stalin's response made things better: https://web.archive.org/web/20110809014 ... t_articles


Genrihk Yagoda and Lazar Kaganovich had large roles, but the direct overseer of the genocide was Stanislaus Redens, a Latvian, and most of the resposable officials were Russian (Molotov, Potshyev) Polish (Koisior) or even Ukranian (Chubar).

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:32 am

ryu wrote:They like to blame jews for the Holodormor genocide: http://takimag.com/article/another_word ... z2kSwXc7EN
Ignoring that jews were barley involved when theirs {!#%@} went down but helped break the story outside the USSR, there is evidence that bad weather and peasants revolting added to the issues at hand, not that Stalin's response made things better: https://web.archive.org/web/20110809014 ... t_articles



Yeah, we have been over this plenty of times.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:27 am

Really? Where?

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:43 pm

ryu wrote:Really? Where?


You have read THHP's "The Bolshevik Canard"? Right? That pretty much settles the issue of the 1920's famine....

The only real argument deniers have against it is kaganovich, but they hardly even know a thing about the Holodomor... Cause someone can easily deny it just as they deny the holocaust. No written order, awful eyewitnesses, ect.

Regardless if Lazar Kaganovich took part in the making of the Holodomor, the major blame rests on Stalin for his "Fortress" letter

And Jeff_36 has a page here on it I don't really know what page its on. its between 1 and 3.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:53 pm

Denying-History wrote:
ryu wrote:Really? Where?


You have read THHP's "The Bolshevik Canard"? Right? That pretty much settles the issue of the 1920's famine....

The only real argument deniers have against it is kaganovich, but they hardly even know a thing about the Holodomor... Cause someone can easily deny it just as they deny the holocaust. No written order, awful eyewitnesses, ect.

Regardless if Lazar Kaganovich took part in the making of the Holodomor, the major blame rests on Stalin for his "Fortress" letter

And Jeff_36 has a page here on it I don't really know what page its on. its between 1 and 3.


Kaganovich and Yagoda large roles in the famine, but so did Stalin, Molotov, Potshyev, Chubar, Koisior, Redens, Pavel Bulanov, Kubyshev and many others. All were scumbag communists. But Deniers don't talk about the ones that weren't Jewish because it doesn't fit their agenda.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:21 am

True, they might have but its quite clear that Stalin was the mastermind for the entire holodomor to start.

As just a quick thing though, sometimes they do also claim "Stalin, Molotov, Potshyev, Chubar, Koisior, Redens, Pavel Bulanov, Kubyshev and many others." to be Jews without evidence.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:54 am

Denying-History wrote:As just a quick thing though, sometimes they do also claim "Stalin, Molotov, Potshyev, Chubar, Koisior, Redens, Pavel Bulanov, Kubyshev and many others." to be Jews without evidence.


If they make that claim than they are infantile retards. The nationalities of those men are evident. Party membership cards stated the nationality of the carrier IIRC. Note their patronyms too, Jewish CPSU members almost always changed their names to Russian ones but the for the most part did not alter their patronyms (Yagoda was an exception to this rule, he changed his surname, given name, and patronym).

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Xcalibur » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:42 am

Who cares what they "claim"? {!#%@} them. Proof?

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:47 am

Molotov had a Jewish wife he divorced when Stalin tossed her out of the party and exiled her.
Molotov abstained when the vote came to strip her of her party membership. Molotov later wrote a groveling letter to Stalin, stating he regretted abstaining.

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Denying-History
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:01 am

Xcalibur wrote:Who cares what they "claim"? {!#%@} them. Proof?


Hmmm I wonder...

Denying-History wrote:True, they might have but its quite clear that Stalin was the mastermind for the entire holodomor to start.

As just a quick thing though, sometimes they do also claim "Stalin, Molotov, Potshyev, Chubar, Koisior, Redens, Pavel Bulanov, Kubyshev and many others." to be Jews without evidence.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
- James Mace

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Jeff_36
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:35 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Molotov had a Jewish wife he divorced when Stalin tossed her out of the party and exiled her.
Molotov abstained when the vote came to strip her of her party membership. Molotov later wrote a groveling letter to Stalin, stating he regretted abstaining.


For a guy with a Jewish wife Molotov was quite antisemitic. He made numerous antisemitic remarks about Lev Kamenev and generally played Stalins faction off as one of "True Russians". He was on record for a number of antisemitic comments. Kruschiev too.

Beria, despite his close ties with the JAFC during the war, comes off as a garden variety antisemite as well.

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NathanC
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:52 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Molotov had a Jewish wife he divorced when Stalin tossed her out of the party and exiled her.
Molotov abstained when the vote came to strip her of her party membership. Molotov later wrote a groveling letter to Stalin, stating he regretted abstaining.


For a guy with a Jewish wife Molotov was quite antisemitic. He made numerous antisemitic remarks about Lev Kamenev and generally played Stalins faction off as one of "True Russians". He was on record for a number of antisemitic comments. Kruschiev too.

Beria, despite his close ties with the JAFC during the war, comes off as a garden variety antisemite as well.


Montefiore's book also talks about how Kruschev's Ukraine responded to the Holocaust. When Jewish Survivors returned to the Ukraine, Kruschev "refused to return their homes". Also, Saul Friedlander talked about how the resurrected Ukrainian communist party was staffed by antisemites.

If I'm not mistaken, Kruschev was also responsible for the policies about Babi Yar Stat Mech and I talked about some time ago.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby ryu » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:23 am

This reminds me of how putin lovers think he is anti-semitic...when that is so far from the case: http://lorddreadnought.livejournal.com/5716.html
http://martinezperspective.com/2016/03/ ... delusions/
For the record I find this to be more of a smokescreen for putins corruption.


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