refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:33 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:I was basing my estimate on Glazar's (I think) recollection of the deportees from Thrace. I suppose they were a national exception.

Shoot, I don't recall Glazer's being so precise - what I remember is his writing impressionistically about the transports from Bulgaria and, in his word, "Greece" of late winter 1943. Anyway, his perception of great riches and abundance, in the context of the Treblinka camp and after the dead winter months, is probably not a good gauge of the socio-economic structure of the countries deported Jews were coming from . . .
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:45 am

I believe most members here know, but just in case: Bulgaria occupied (Greek) Thrace and parts of (Greek) Western Macedonia, and today's FYROM (Yugoslavian Macedonia) in 1941. Bulgaria sent all Jews from all these territories to their death to Treblinka, where virtually all were killed, but didn't harm her own Jews. It was a day like today, March of 1943.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby blastikus » Sun May 06, 2018 3:04 am

@BRoI had a lot of information on Jewish Bolshevism in his old blog. Does he retract this also? If not, I'd like to see him post it here.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 06, 2018 3:30 am

that's incredibly interesting, wow, no need to say anything more, that blows my mind

did he happen to have information on Miedzyrzec ghetto, too?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Sun May 13, 2018 3:13 pm

A lot of the "Jewish Bolshevism" nonsense rests on two people: Genrikh Yagoda and Lazar Kaganovich. Stephen Kotkin was able to go into detail about their role in Stalin's dictatorship and their relationship with him, so I'll talk about these and how they really don't support the notion that these individuals "dominated" the USSR under Stalin.

Genrikh Yagoda

Yagoda was really a nobody. He got his leadership position at the OGPU/NKVD because his predecessor Mezysnsky would get ill and later die. Stalin didn't trust him because of this; he would go around Yagoda's back and install one of "his" men in the OGPU. This was Efim Yevdokimov, a Non Jewish true believer and a Stalin loyalist who had actually actually helped Stalin arrange a show trial for one of his enemies in 1928 (Strange how no one talks about that), which earned him Stalin's favor and several orders of the Red Banner. Yevdokimov would serve as a counterweight to Yagoda and would be Stalin's "real" representative and insurance in the OGPU. Anything Yagoda did would also involve Yevdokimov by necessity, and Yevdokimov would use his position to spread rumors that would eventually undermine Yagoda. This would pressure Yagoda to "prove" his usefulness and loyalty, which was no doubt a factor in his execution of Kamanev and Zinoviev. It didn't help though: Stalin would tend to work around Yagoda by ensuing that "his" men would always be there: Yevdokimov, Redens, Balytsky and later Yezhov. Yagoda would later be purged, and it would come out that Yagoda didn't have a pre-revolutionary background, which really didn't help his case. In his "confession", he would admit that he was never "a real Bolshevik" and always walked around wearing masks.

Conclusion
Yagoda was without any doubt an awful, awful person. Painting him as the "power behind the throne" doesn't hold water though. Stalin never liked him and gave the really important stuff to those he could really count on and "liked": Mezynsnsky, Yevdokimov, Redens, Balytsky, etc. Yagoda was a nobody who got his position through sheer luck and had to work extra hard to prove to Stalin et al that he could be counted on. Claiming that Jews "dominated" the USSR because Yagoda was in a high ranking position that he didn't earn or get because of his "Jewishness", and one that was slowly subverted from under him by Stalin's real (non Jewish) loyalists, is idiotic. Yagoda was a bad man and totally deserved what he got, but his role is exaggerated and doesn't prove anything about either Jewish people or the USSR.

Lazar Kaganovich

Kaganovich was the head of the Orgburo, which was essentially the human resources or internal affairs of the Bolshevik party. He certainly got it because he was on good terms with Stalin, but there was never any doubt that Stalin was the one calling the shots and took every opportunity to put Kaganovich and his place and remind him who was boss. During the Ukrainian Famine, Kaganovich tried to "protect" the Ukrainian Bolshevik leadership from Stalin's wrath, since the latter was blaming their "softness" for the failure to meet the procurement quotas. For example, in the well known "Fortress" letter of August 11, 1932, Stalin ordered Kaganovich to re assume the post of First Secretary in Ukraine and replace Stanislav Kosior, who was being accused of doing a shitty job enforcing collectivization and would've probably gotten an earlier death instead of the one he got in the late 30s. Idiots often cite this to "prove" that Kaganovich "ran" the Ukraine and was responsible for most of the deaths, but what they don't mention is Kaganovich's Reply dated August 16, an example of how he tried to protect the Ukrainian leadership. He whined about his poor health and how difficult it would be to take over, and instead suggested that Kosior be given another chance after some "disciplining" (the term apparently used was "taking him [Kosior] by the Ass and breaking some of his ribs". Kosior would apparently take the hint and develop the "black list" system of withholding supplies to non compliant villages, a key decision that led to mass death by starvation). Stalin would never trust him again after this, and later in the leadup to the great terror, Stalin would send a not so subtle threat to Kaganovich not to toe the line. He sent him some draft (forced) "confessions" and asked for his feedback, an obvious signal that Kaganovich would suffer the same fate if he questioned Stalin again. Kaganovich was also on very good terms with Sergo Orjonikidze, another high ranking Bolsheviks and one of the very few people who could pose a threat and oppose Stalin's rule over the USSR. Stalin may have psychologically manipulated Orjonikidze's suicide, and the side effect of that was that Kaganovich would be essentially broken and would slowly fade into the background, to be replaced by Molotov and Stalin's new favorites like Zhdanov and Krushchev.

Conclusion
Kaganovich was also an awful, awful person. He did have a high ranking position in the USSR, but claiming that he "ruled" it or had some nefarious influence or pulled Stalin's strings - as some Neo Nazis and Neo Stalinists claim. Is retarded. He may have been Stalin's "friend", but was ultimately just another tool and a pawn, and Stalin never forgot or stopped reminding him who really was in charge. His role or actions don't prove anything about either Jewish people or the USSR.

the myth of "Jewish Bolshevism" is really just based on confirmation bias and guilt by association. High Ranking ethnic Jews like Kaganovich or Yagoda did not get their position because the USSR "favored" or was run by Jewish people, and Kaganovich's Jewishness was apparently also a factor behind Stalin's mistrust and suspicion towards him. They got their positions because of luck and were constantly treated with suspicion because of it. There's no correlation between either ethnic or Religious Jewishness with Bolshevik ideology.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Sun May 13, 2018 3:17 pm

Also worth mentioning.

Kamanev and Zinoviev voted against the October Revolution, saying it was too soon. This decision would apparently be used as the justification to remove and purge them later on. Without a doubt, they were important members of the early Bolshevik movement, but blaming the entire Revolution on them (and all Jews by Association/Proxy) is obviously idiotic and doesn't take into account their actions and the reality.

This info and that in my previous posting is from the 2nd and 1st Volumes of Stephen Kotkin's Stalin Biography.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun May 13, 2018 4:12 pm

Thanks, Nathan.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 14, 2018 9:02 pm

NathanC wrote:Also worth mentioning.

Kamanev and Zinoviev voted against the October Revolution, saying it was too soon. This decision would apparently be used as the justification to remove and purge them later on. Without a doubt, they were important members of the early Bolshevik movement, but blaming the entire Revolution on them (and all Jews by Association/Proxy) is obviously idiotic and doesn't take into account their actions and the reality.

This info and that in my previous posting is from the 2nd and 1st Volumes of Stephen Kotkin's Stalin Biography.


Pretty sure we don't really know why Stalin purged those of the right and left oppositions. There is evidence to suggest Stalin and his clan actually believed the charges against the opposition to be true.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Mon May 14, 2018 10:00 pm

NathanC wrote:Yagoda was really a nobody.

Kotkin says Yagoda's and Yakov Sverdlov's fathers were cousins.

Numerous sources mention that Yagdoa was married Sverdlov's niece (daughter of his sister Sofia). Simon Sebag Montefiore described Yagoda as being "married to revolutionary royalty".
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Tue May 15, 2018 5:13 am

BRoI wrote:
NathanC wrote:Yagoda was really a nobody.

Kotkin says Yagoda's and Yakov Sverdlov's fathers were cousins.

Numerous sources mention that Yagdoa was married Sverdlov's niece (daughter of his sister Sofia). Simon Sebag Montefiore described Yagoda as being "married to revolutionary royalty".


This doesn’t address my point though. Yagoda was not the “power behind the throne” or Stalin’s BFF (the way Kaganovich was). Stalin worked with him, to be sure. But he wasn’t his “favorite” or “most loyal follower”. Others had that distinction.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 2:13 pm

NathanC wrote:This doesn’t address my point though. Yagoda was not the “power behind the throne” or Stalin’s BFF (the way Kaganovich was). Stalin worked with him, to be sure. But he wasn’t his “favorite” or “most loyal follower”. Others had that distinction.

It addressed your misinformation.

Who has claimed Yagoda was *the power behind Stalin's throne*? Links needed.

Trotsky wrote:Stalin had to maneuver the Political Bureau for a long time before he succeeded in making the hated Yagoda, his most trusted henchman, head of the GPU. The struggle against all factions of the Opposition had been concentrated in Yagoda’s hands since 1923. He was not only the privy executor of all the falsifications and frame-ups, but also the organizer of the first executions of the Oppositionists back in 1929: Blumkin, Silov, and Rabinovich.


Stalin only dispensed of his "most trusted henchman" when it was advantageous, and perhaps even necessary [from a murderous dictator's pov] to do so.

Trotsky's theory on Stalin's chess-master move to rid himself of his witch-finder general along with the witches is fascinating, and very plausible. Had Yagoda successfully arranged the assassination of Trotsky prior to March 1935, Stalin may never have had cause to sacrifice his "most trusted henceman".

https://archive.org/stream/leon-trotski ... 7/mode/2up
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsk ... ustria.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Ki ... _aftermath
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Tue May 15, 2018 5:46 pm

BRoI wrote:It addressed your misinformation.


Not really. I was talking more about Yagoda's role and his relationship with Stalin. His origins and family history, while interesting, have little bearing on that.

BRoI wrote:Stalin only dispensed of his "most trusted henchman" when it was advantageous, and perhaps even necessary [from a murderous dictator's pov] to do so.

Trotsky's theory on Stalin's chess-master move to rid himself of his witch-finder general along with the witches is fascinating, and very plausible. Had Yagoda successfully arranged the assassination of Trotsky prior to March 1935, Stalin may never have had cause to sacrifice his "most trusted henceman".


So because Trotsky (who happens to be ethnically Jewish) said it, it must be true.

Sure, Yagoda helped fabricate false confessions like everyone else. He wasn't the only one or the first, though. That would be Yevdokimov, who I mentioned earlier. Yagoda might've helped with the late 20s Shakhty case, but it was ultimately Yevdokimov who got the ball rolling: he was the one who invented stories of "sabotage" by coal workers and party bosses, which gave Stalin the ammo he needed to stage the show trial. Even before that, he had fabricated accusations about former whites working in the North Caucasus, and Stalin even advised him to report his findings directly to him instead of going through Yagoda and the OGPU. He won his third order of the Red Banner for this, and as already explained, Stalin would reward his innovativeness and creativity by installing him as the head of several departments in the OGPU, to keep Yagoda in check and ultimately play a role in his downfall. Way to prove my point for me: he was every bit if not more essential to Stalin's rule, but since he wasn't Jewish like Yagoda was, he may as well have never existed.

Yagoda was a bad, bad man. But his role in all things is seriously exaggerated, as shown by his ultimate purging. The ONE book he helped write was pulped, and the only THREE places with his name were replaced. Nothing but a tool and a nobody,outlived by Stalin's real "most trusted henchmen" like Yezhov and Yevdokimov.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Tue May 15, 2018 7:28 pm

So because Trotsky (who happens to be ethnically Jewish) said it, it must be true.


No, you silly {!#%@}, not because he's a Jew but because of the evidence presented in the two articles you never looked at, and the evidence which emerged after his death that entirely supports his contention—collated on the wiki page I posted.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Tue May 15, 2018 10:27 pm

Yagoda was primarily liquidated with the reason of his poor reputation. This is why Ezhov for example took control of the Kirov investigation considering he had good relations with a number of party members and didn't have police background. Bukharin as an example trusted that Ezhov would not fabricate information as he did during the 1930's purges. (Getty, "Iron Fist" p.1-2) Yagoda used blackmail in his post as well as threats that made him unliked and this was true for all of Stalin's subordinates in this position as his right hand of the NKVD, as Jörg Baberowski pointed out no one missed Yagoda when he was executed, no one missed Ezhov, and no one missed Beria when he was executed by Khrushchev. (See Scorched Earth.)
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Wed May 16, 2018 4:58 am

BRoI wrote:https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html


D6B74248-FB7F-4D0F-A60B-BEC331937414.jpeg


Fake News wrote:but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags


The declassified Archives actually establish an upper limit of 10M dead under Stalin. This is based on the top secret Gulag stats, the top secret 1937 census that was hushed up because it showed large deaths from the Soviet Famine, the Politburo’s summary reports about the great terror, and The Secret Police’s kill lists. Lies right in the first paragraphs.

Fake News wrote:-Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people.-


Actually, the only thing Yagoda implemented regarding Stalin’s collectivisation was the decree of January 22 1932, which was Stalin and Molotov’s order to seal the borders of Ukraine, the North Caucasus and other regions. Others did the actual killing, namely Stanislav Redens (Stalin’s brother in law) and Vsevolod Byalytsky (Head of Ukraine’s GPU), the chiefs of Ukraine’s OGPU branch that answered directly to Stalin, not Yagoda’s “main” OGPU. At most, Yagoda was probably responsible for <100,000 people that he prevented from escaping. His summary report for January says that he caught some 20,000+.
As already mentioned, Stalin’s death toll was 10M maximum. Only a complete idiot would claim that Mean old Yagoda was responsible for all of it, which is probably why the author chose to exaggerate Stalin’s toll instead of mentioning the real death toll derived from the archives he moans about.

Fake News wrote:His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.


Maybe some of his deputies were Jewish, but not all. The largest and worst Gulag Complex at Kolyma, for example, was managed by the Dalstroi trust which never had a Jewish head. One of the non Jews who ran the camp (Ivan Nikishov) even lied to the visiting US vice president about how well treated the inmates were, which helped convince them about the validity and need for “lend lease”. His predecessor Pavlov (another non Jew) was also responsible for most of the deaths in Kolyma. Most Gulag deaths would happen under Beria, after Yagoda and any alleged “Jewish” presence in the NKVD was long gone.

Fake News wrote:Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich


I already wrote about Kaganovich above. Despite The author’s whining, Kaganovich actually tried to push for famine relief to Ukraine. In August of 1932, for example, Stalin authorised granting 30-40 million poods of Famine relief and left it to Kaganovich (agriculture secretary) to decide how much. Kaganovich actually picked 40M. This was before late 1932, when the non Jews Balytsky and Redens leaked some of the Ukrainian Communist government’s complaints and protests to Stalin, which fed his paranoia and convinced him to instead use the famine as a weapon to “break” Ukraine.

Despite the author’s BS, it was not Yagoda who “implemented Stalin’s Collectivization” but rather Molotov, Kosior, and Postyshev. Molotov was the head of the Politburo and the Government, and was the one who set the impossible procurement quotas and denied seed loans to Ukraine. The Politburo’s October 22 decree would later send him as the special commissar for Grain collection in Ukraine, and he organised the Brigades that seized the Ukrainian peasants’ foodstuffs. He also implemented the death penalty as a punishment for anyone “resisting”, and would be the one to cosign the decree that prevented people from escaping the famine. If you want to talk about “not being moved”, Molotov visited Ukraine and saw the warning signs of famine, but decided along with the Politburo that his impossible quotas would still have to be met, and denied Ukraine additional seed grains for good measure. I already talked about Kosior: he designed the Black board system and withheld supplies to villages that didn’t meet the quotas, and also had them surrounded to prevent the peasants from escaping. He also headed the death sentence commission in Ukraine, along with the aforementioned Stanislav Redens. He would later be replaced by Pavel Postyshev in 1933, the worst year of the famine, who was also handpicked by Stalin to reverse Ukrainization by purging the Ukrainian communists who complained, and by purging Ukraine’s culture.

Kaganovich did all these things as well, but on a smaller scale in the smaller North Caucasus region, resulting in a smaller death toll (1/10th of the 3.9M dead under Molotov, Kosior and Postyshev in Ukraine proper). The latter weren’t Jewish though, so they never existed.

The article is fake news. The death toll is exaggerated, and most of it was due to Molotov, Kosior, Postyshev, Redens, Balytsky, Yezhov, etc. Not Yagoda or Kaganovich or any “Jewish Bolshevik” as the author claims. If any of us here had cited a solid piece with solid arguments, but made the mistake of saying that 4M jews died in Auschwitz or something, the Rabbit would be whining nonstop. He apparently has no problem citing a smear piece with an exaggerated death toll so long as it feeds his belief.

http://history.org.ua/LiberUA/PyrihHolo ... r_2008.pdf

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03 ... lled-more/
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat May 19, 2018 2:15 am

So we are 11 pages and 415 posts into this promising thread title and still a forum search yields 0 results for the following man's name: Robert Wilton.

Lads, I am disappointed. If you want to tear the beating heart out of revisionist copy-pasta, you will have to attack their central article, and it goes something like this:

Robert Wilton was based in Moscow as a Journalist for the Times of London throughout the period of the Bolshevik revolution. In 1919, the Soviet Press provided a list of 556 of the top figures of the Soviet Government, identifying their ethnicity. Wilton obtained this list and included it as an "appendix' in his book, "The Last Days of the Romanovs," 1920.

The list included 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts (Latvians), 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Czech, 1 Karaim (Jewish sect) and 457(!) Jews. This list is provided below. Jews, in fact, totally dominated the government of the Soviet Union.

Central Committee

62 Members 42 Jews 20 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:

Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (secretary) Armenian
Bruno Lett(Latvian)
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Czech (Probably Jew)
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Latisis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounstcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotskyu) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian (Jew)
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Schlichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Prafdine) Jew


Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:-

36 Members 24 Jews 12 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Dzerjinski (president) Pole (Jew)
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Beisenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Daylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Bogel German
Zakiss Lett

The Council of the Peoples Commissars:-

22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Ministry, Name and Nationality:-

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instructions Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Voldarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew


Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:-

12 Members: 10 Jews 2 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Voldarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
(part Jew) Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian


Central Committees:-

Mensheviks: 11 members, all Jews
Communists of the People: 6 members, 5 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Right Wing): 15 members, 13 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Left Wing): 12 members, 10 Jews
Committee of the Anarchists: 5 members, 4 Jews
Polish Communist Party: 12 members, all Jews
Ministry of the Commissariat: 22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Central Executive Committee:-

61 Members 41 Jews 20 Gentiles



Sorry to have spewed that long list but I felt the need to, because this EXACT list in this exact excruciating length gets ctrl+v'ed in many revisionist posts.

Now for me, the first red sign is that in most instances only the family name is given, making it hard for a non-scholar to fact check whether that person really existed, who he or she was, and to verify their Jewish origin.

I think the list is made up. For example, take one of the more exotic sounding names like Schillenkuss. Type it into google. What do you get? ONLY the same copy-pasted list on various far right sites.

Now of course the counter-argument is, that since most of these people were active in Russia, and pretty much nobodies outside Russia, you'd have to try typing their names in cyrilic and see if that might lead to some bios. Still it is quite a shocker that their anglicized names arent found among english literature.

Then there's also this little piece on Wiki about Robert Wilton:

Wilton was accused of being a right-wing antisemite. He was a proponent of blood libel, claiming in his 1920 book The Last Days of the Romanovs that the execution of the Romanovs was a ritual murder by the Jews. He was criticized by several liberal British journalists for supporting the attempted military coup by Lavr Kornilov. In 1919 he published "Russia's Agony", which claimed (p. ix) that "Bolshevism is not Russian - it is essentially non-national, its leaders being almost entirely in the race [Jews] that lost its country and its nationhood long ago". According to Semyon Reznik, Wilton also assisted Russian antisemites in fabrication of photographic evidence of ritual crimes by Jews


Unfortunately that wiki article is very short and while it lays many accusations, with source, on Wilton, it doesnt go into further detail by itself.

Personally, I have seen several articles that refute Jewish Bolshevism by e.g. saying:

1) Baltic peoples were more over-represented than Jews
2) The enemies of the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks, had far more Jews among them. (so much for the revisionist notion of some kind of jewish tribal unity, lol)
3) Various lists have been provided that show most of the members are not Jews, and that Jews were only 16% or so or less.

I have summarized my findings here: imgur.com/uGvCmjs

...but I would appreciate any input you have on the person of Robert Wilton and his infamous list that gets copy-pasted a zillion times.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat May 19, 2018 2:26 am

Aaron Richards wrote:So we are 11 pages and 415 posts into this promising thread title and still a forum search yields 0 results for the following man's name: Robert Wilton.

Lads, I am disappointed. If you want to tear the beating heart out of revisionist copy-pasta, you will have to attack their central article, and it goes something like this:

Robert Wilton was based in Moscow as a Journalist for the Times of London throughout the period of the Bolshevik revolution. In 1919, the Soviet Press provided a list of 556 of the top figures of the Soviet Government, identifying their ethnicity. Wilton obtained this list and included it as an "appendix' in his book, "The Last Days of the Romanovs," 1920.

The list included 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts (Latvians), 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Czech, 1 Karaim (Jewish sect) and 457(!) Jews. This list is provided below. Jews, in fact, totally dominated the government of the Soviet Union.

Central Committee

62 Members 42 Jews 20 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:

Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (secretary) Armenian
Bruno Lett(Latvian)
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Czech (Probably Jew)
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Latisis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounstcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotskyu) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian (Jew)
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Schlichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Prafdine) Jew


Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:-

36 Members 24 Jews 12 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Dzerjinski (president) Pole (Jew)
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Beisenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Daylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Bogel German
Zakiss Lett

The Council of the Peoples Commissars:-

22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Ministry, Name and Nationality:-

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instructions Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Voldarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew


Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:-

12 Members: 10 Jews 2 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Voldarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
(part Jew) Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian


Central Committees:-

Mensheviks: 11 members, all Jews
Communists of the People: 6 members, 5 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Right Wing): 15 members, 13 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Left Wing): 12 members, 10 Jews
Committee of the Anarchists: 5 members, 4 Jews
Polish Communist Party: 12 members, all Jews
Ministry of the Commissariat: 22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Central Executive Committee:-

61 Members 41 Jews 20 Gentiles



Sorry to have spewed that long list but I felt the need to, because this EXACT list in this exact excruciating length gets ctrl+v'ed in many revisionist posts.

Now for me, the first red sign is that in most instances only the family name is given, making it hard for a non-scholar to fact check whether that person really existed, who he or she was, and to verify their Jewish origin.

I think the list is made up. For example, take one of the more exotic sounding names like Schillenkuss. Type it into google. What do you get? ONLY the same copy-pasted list on various far right sites.

Now of course the counter-argument is, that since most of these people were active in Russia, and pretty much nobodies outside Russia, you'd have to try typing their names in cyrilic and see if that might lead to some bios. Still it is quite a shocker that their anglicized names arent found among english literature.

Then there's also this little piece on Wiki about Robert Wilton:

Wilton was accused of being a right-wing antisemite. He was a proponent of blood libel, claiming in his 1920 book The Last Days of the Romanovs that the execution of the Romanovs was a ritual murder by the Jews. He was criticized by several liberal British journalists for supporting the attempted military coup by Lavr Kornilov. In 1919 he published "Russia's Agony", which claimed (p. ix) that "Bolshevism is not Russian - it is essentially non-national, its leaders being almost entirely in the race [Jews] that lost its country and its nationhood long ago". According to Semyon Reznik, Wilton also assisted Russian antisemites in fabrication of photographic evidence of ritual crimes by Jews


Unfortunately that wiki article is very short and while it lays many accusations, with source, on Wilton, it doesnt go into further detail by itself.

Personally, I have seen several articles that refute Jewish Bolshevism by e.g. saying:

1) Baltic peoples were more over-represented than Jews
2) The enemies of the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks, had far more Jews among them. (so much for the revisionist notion of some kind of jewish tribal unity, lol)
3) Various lists have been provided that show most of the members are not Jews, and that Jews were only 16% or so or less.

I have summarized my findings here: imgur.com/uGvCmjs

...but I would like your input you have on the person of Robert Wilton and his infamous list that gets copy-pasted a zillion times.


Thanks, Aaron.

I keep meaning to get back to this but I keep getting pulled into more areas that are specific to the Holocaust.

I have a book on the history of the USSR, when I get chance to read it I will see what it says.

My issue is that Google is unsatisfactory in this matter, I’ve found links to things but they didn’t quite have what I was looking for.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat May 19, 2018 2:27 am

Much of what I do find is from denier or right-wing sites.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat May 19, 2018 3:08 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Much of what I do find is from denier or right-wing sites.


maybe our deniers would like to explain how all the Kremlin Judeo-Bolshies made a deal with Weimar gov't and von Seekt to share Reichswehr military tech, doctrine, and cetera in the '20's...

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Sat May 19, 2018 4:43 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
...but I would like your input you have on the person of Robert Wilton and his infamous list that gets copy-pasted a zillion times.


People have been C&Ping it since 1921. A 1921 C&P, I consulted in the Houses of Parliament archive [you may recognise it from the movies].
Image

The then-president of the Assembly of the League of Nations said the information was reliable, according to the British Minister at the Hague, Sir Ronald William Graham.

http://www.portcullis.parliament.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=LG%2FF%2F203%2F2%2F8&pos=1
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Sun May 20, 2018 3:36 am

Aaron Richards wrote:So we are 11 pages and 415 posts into this promising thread title and still a forum search yields 0 results for the following man's name: Robert Wilton.

Lads, I am disappointed. If you want to tear the beating heart out of revisionist copy-pasta, you will have to attack their central article, and it goes something like this:

Robert Wilton was based in Moscow as a Journalist for the Times of London throughout the period of the Bolshevik revolution. In 1919, the Soviet Press provided a list of 556 of the top figures of the Soviet Government, identifying their ethnicity. Wilton obtained this list and included it as an "appendix' in his book, "The Last Days of the Romanovs," 1920.

The list included 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts (Latvians), 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Czech, 1 Karaim (Jewish sect) and 457(!) Jews. This list is provided below. Jews, in fact, totally dominated the government of the Soviet Union.

Central Committee

62 Members 42 Jews 20 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:

Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (secretary) Armenian
Bruno Lett(Latvian)
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Czech (Probably Jew)
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Latisis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounstcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotskyu) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian (Jew)
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Schlichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Prafdine) Jew


Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:-

36 Members 24 Jews 12 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Dzerjinski (president) Pole (Jew)
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Beisenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Daylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Bogel German
Zakiss Lett

The Council of the Peoples Commissars:-

22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Ministry, Name and Nationality:-

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instructions Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Voldarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew


Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:-

12 Members: 10 Jews 2 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Voldarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
(part Jew) Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian


Central Committees:-

Mensheviks: 11 members, all Jews
Communists of the People: 6 members, 5 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Right Wing): 15 members, 13 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Left Wing): 12 members, 10 Jews
Committee of the Anarchists: 5 members, 4 Jews
Polish Communist Party: 12 members, all Jews
Ministry of the Commissariat: 22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Central Executive Committee:-

61 Members 41 Jews 20 Gentiles



Sorry to have spewed that long list but I felt the need to, because this EXACT list in this exact excruciating length gets ctrl+v'ed in many revisionist posts.

Now for me, the first red sign is that in most instances only the family name is given, making it hard for a non-scholar to fact check whether that person really existed, who he or she was, and to verify their Jewish origin.

I think the list is made up. For example, take one of the more exotic sounding names like Schillenkuss. Type it into google. What do you get? ONLY the same copy-pasted list on various far right sites.

Now of course the counter-argument is, that since most of these people were active in Russia, and pretty much nobodies outside Russia, you'd have to try typing their names in cyrilic and see if that might lead to some bios. Still it is quite a shocker that their anglicized names arent found among english literature.

Then there's also this little piece on Wiki about Robert Wilton:

Wilton was accused of being a right-wing antisemite. He was a proponent of blood libel, claiming in his 1920 book The Last Days of the Romanovs that the execution of the Romanovs was a ritual murder by the Jews. He was criticized by several liberal British journalists for supporting the attempted military coup by Lavr Kornilov. In 1919 he published "Russia's Agony", which claimed (p. ix) that "Bolshevism is not Russian - it is essentially non-national, its leaders being almost entirely in the race [Jews] that lost its country and its nationhood long ago". According to Semyon Reznik, Wilton also assisted Russian antisemites in fabrication of photographic evidence of ritual crimes by Jews


Unfortunately that wiki article is very short and while it lays many accusations, with source, on Wilton, it doesnt go into further detail by itself.

Personally, I have seen several articles that refute Jewish Bolshevism by e.g. saying:

1) Baltic peoples were more over-represented than Jews
2) The enemies of the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks, had far more Jews among them. (so much for the revisionist notion of some kind of jewish tribal unity, lol)
3) Various lists have been provided that show most of the members are not Jews, and that Jews were only 16% or so or less.

I have summarized my findings here: imgur.com/uGvCmjs

...but I would appreciate any input you have on the person of Robert Wilton and his infamous list that gets copy-pasted a zillion times.


We're discussing this because?

http://holocaust.skeptik.net/misc/party.htm
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 am

BRoI wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:
...but I would like your input you have on the person of Robert Wilton and his infamous list that gets copy-pasted a zillion times.


People have been C&Ping it since 1921. A 1921 C&P, I consulted in the Houses of Parliament archive [you may recognise it from the movies].
Image

The then-president of the Assembly of the League of Nations said the information was reliable, according to the British Minister at the Hague, Sir Ronald William Graham.

http://www.portcullis.parliament.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=LG%2FF%2F203%2F2%2F8&pos=1


And since the list is nothing but a hoax, we see how much such assurances are worth.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Sun May 20, 2018 1:08 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:

Central Committee

62 Members 42 Jews 20 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:

Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (secretary) Armenian
Bruno Lett(Latvian)
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Czech (Probably Jew)
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Latisis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounstcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotskyu) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian (Jew)
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Schlichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Prafdine) Jew


Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:-

36 Members 24 Jews 12 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Dzerjinski (president) Pole (Jew)
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Beisenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Daylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Bogel German
Zakiss Lett

The Council of the Peoples Commissars:-

22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Ministry, Name and Nationality:-

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian (part Jew)
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands KauffmanJew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E.Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instructions Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg[/b] Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
[b]Hygiene Anvelt
Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Voldarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I.Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
[b]Refugees[/b] (assist.) Zaslovski Jew


Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:-

12 Members: 10 Jews 2 Gentiles


Name and Nationality:-

Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Voldarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
(part Jew) Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian


Central Committees:-

Mensheviks: 11 members, all Jews
Communists of the People: 6 members, 5 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Right Wing): 15 members, 13 Jews
Socialist Rev. Party (Left Wing): 12 members, 10 Jews
Committee of the Anarchists: 5 members, 4 Jews
Polish Communist Party: 12 members, all Jews
Ministry of the Commissariat: 22 Members 17 Jews 5 Gentiles


Central Executive Committee:-

61 Members 41 Jews 20 Gentiles



As Sergey and Denying-History have pointed out, the list is a complete hoax. The real list is the one that DH was kind enough to link to. "Spitzberg", "Kaufman" and "Lelina" were never commissars and were in all likelihood made up people and never existed. There were no "Hygiene" and "Refugee" commissariats either: Wilton made them up as well.

For specific examples, Karl Lander was a Latvian, not Jewish. Jan Anvelt was an Estonian. He was not the head of the nonexistent "Hygiene" Commission, but rather the commissar of a Military academy. Alexander Schlichter and Vasily Schmidt were not Jewish, but of ethnic German Descent.

The "list" is a complete fake, just like The Fake News article from Ynet News. Wilton gives no source in his book, because he made it all up. That's what "Jewish Bolshevism" is. Made up nonsense

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 20, 2018 3:51 pm

Wilton was of course one of the main proponents of "Jews ritualistically killed the Tsar and his family" blood libel.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Sun May 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Then there's also this little piece on Wiki about Robert Wilton:
Wilton was accused of being a right-wing antisemite. He was a proponent of blood libel, claiming in his 1920 book The Last Days of the Romanovs that the execution of the Romanovs was a ritual murder by the Jews. He was criticized by several liberal British journalists for supporting the attempted military coup by Lavr Kornilov. In 1919 he published "Russia's Agony", which claimed (p. ix) that "Bolshevism is not Russian - it is essentially non-national, its leaders being almost entirely in the race [Jews] that lost its country and its nationhood long ago". According to Semyon Reznik, Wilton also assisted Russian antisemites in fabrication of photographic evidence of ritual crimes by Jews

Unfortunately that wiki article is very short and while it lays many accusations, with source, on Wilton, it doesnt go into further detail by itself.


As a wise man once said:
Information is the communication of facts and opinions in an effort to enlighten.
Propaganda is the communication of facts (or non facts) and opinions in an effort to influence.


I call BS on the claims in the quoted wiki paragraph, except for the supposedly damning, but actually rather mild, "Bolshevism is not Russian" quote. Numerous British diplomats and politicians were saying precisely the same thing at that time. Here are two examples:

Bolshevism is in no sense a Russian party or a section of the Russian public. It is the extreme doctrine of an entirely international and anti-national movement which aims at the abolition of all national distinctions and the substitution of distinctions of class and an envenomed class war, with the establishment of a dictatorship of the former working class, not to be exercised by that class but by self-appointed leaders, most of whom are not of Russian but of Jewish origin.

- "Memorandum on the Position of Russia", by Professor Sir Bernard Pares, Vladivostok, March 2nd, 1919. UK NA: FO 608/196, p.254.

Winston Churchill, letter 25 January 1920, to his friend Herbert Fisher wrote:
I am afraid the facts established only too clearly the predominance of Jews in the Bolshevik movement ... it is my firm belief that the Jews in this country would be well to admit the facts more openly than they do and to rally to the support of those forces in Russia which give some prospect of setting up a strong and impartial government.

- cf. H. Defries, Conservative Party Attitudes to Jews, 1900-1950. Southgate UK: Frank Cass Publishers, 2001, p.82.


Here's Wilton's book. Those claiming Wilton alleged "ritual murder" can put-up or shut-up. What pages nos. feature the "ritual murder" claims?
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 20, 2018 6:33 pm

From Wilton's 1922 Post scriptum as found in the Russian edition (Berlin, 1923):

http://ricolor.org/history/mn/nv/end/vilton/

Дальнейшее известно: в это именно время евреи Московского Совета, следуя известным указаниям, сумели перехватить Романовых в Екатеринбурге и, в конце концов, устроить избиение всей Семьи. Но в наши дни можно считать установленным и не подлежащим никакому сомнению, что Ленин, который был вполне осведомлен о еврейском плане уничтожить всех Романовых, на него не соглашался и что германцы, участвуя в похищении Государя, тем самым взяли на себя тяжелую ответственность также и в том, чем это похищение завершилось.
[...]

Надпись, сделанная каббалистическими письменами на стене комнаты убийства в доме Ипатьева, была воспроизведена в английском издании моей книги (в 1920 г.); по этому поводу и получил несколько писем от лиц, сведущих в криптографии. Установлено, что секретные “коды” некоторых обществ, которые имеют свои главные управления в Германии и в которых заведомо участвуют евреи, заключают в себе письмена, подобные екатеринбургской надписи. Не имеем ли мы здесь дело с тайным сношением между соучастниками? [29]

29 Вот несколько выдержек из письма, полученного мною, от лица весьма осведомленного, от г-жи Места Уэбстер (Nesta Webster) — автора замечательной книги о французской революции, в которой она воскрешает данные того времени, доказывающие, какую деятельную роль играли евреи в подготовке и взрыве революции 1789 года: "Проследив роль немецких иллюминаторов во всех революционных движениях прошлого века, я убеждена, что нынешняя большевицкая власть получает указания от тайного общества, имеющего свое управление, вероятно, в Германии... Весьма примечательно, что из 4-х воспроизведенных Вами знаков, три похожи на знаки, которыми пользовались иллюминаты и которые напечатаны графом Ле Кутле да Кантеле (Le Coutleux de Casteleu) в его книге “Les Seetes et les Socletes secretes” (1863 г.)".
Дальнейшие расследования дали более положительные результаты. Три знака, употребляемые еврейскими тайными обществами в Германии, оказываются взятыми из староеврейского, самаритянского и греческого алфавитов и обозначают "сердце" или в переносном смысле "главу" — духовную (еврейский знак) народную (самаритянский) и политическую или государственную (греческий). Этим точно обозначается такое лицо, как Русский Царь. Снимок стены с надписью показывает цифры на подоконнике, написанные "такими же чернилами и такими же толстыми линиями" лицом, стоящим у стены. По-видимому, в таком же положении сделана надпись на стене, следовательно, нужно читать сбоку. Тогда ясно отмечается греческая "ламбда". Вероятно, точное значение и надписи, и таинственных цифр на подоконнике станет со временем известно, но из сказанного достаточно ясно, что надписи сделаны с преднамеренной целью и сделаны лицом близко знакомым с каббалистикой, и также — судя по почерку — лицом, обладающим сильным, даже жестоким характером.

> Numerous British diplomats and politicians were saying precisely the same thing at that time.

It doesn't matter in the slightest who was saying what. Wilton is a hoaxer.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Sun May 20, 2018 11:05 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:From Wilton's 1922 Post scriptum as found in the Russian edition (Berlin, 1923):

http://ricolor.org/history/mn/nv/end/vilton/


Below is Google translation of the entire Post scriptum. Highlighted in red are the bits referring to Jews, and the footnote on *possible* meanings of symbol scrawled on the cellar wall, i.e. the bits SR cherry-picked and posted above as "proof" Wilton claimed this was a case of JRM.

That's BS, Wilton claimed no such thing.

Interestingly, the woman mention by Wilton in this 1922 text is the same woman cited in this famous 1920 article!

Image

Churchill wrote:This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution.


Post scriptum

The author considers it useful to add some details that have a fairly close relation to the issues raised by him; on the first place the issue of collusion between the Bolsheviks and the Germans concerning the export of the Emperor from the Tobolsk confinement.

Dr. Ritzler, former assistant to the late Count von Mirbach, General Hoffmann, the creator of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, who played the first role in German affairs in Bolshevik Russia, and other people felt that they had to justify themselves before their "friends" of former Russia. This circumstance has caused some statements - to admit, rather awkward; impartiality for the sake of, I will state the essence of them with full accuracy.

These gentlemen say that my version of the German conspiracy for the erection of Nicholas II on the throne can not stand criticism. Germany, they say, has never thought of such an enterprise, and not only because it has lost all credibility with the Sovereign's personality: did not the restoration of the monarchy run counter to German politics? The dismemberment of Russia facilitates its economic use, and the first concern of the Emperor would be the re-creation of national unity. (Here we hear the echo of the policy that Lloyd George imposed on England, apparently taking it from the Germans).

These plausible arguments suffer from one big drawback: wanting to prove too much, they only betray the intricacies of the German position; they do not explain why the Russians believed in the existence of a plan for German restoration. In order to withdraw this objection, the above-named persons, former gentlemen and accomplices of the Lenin and Sverdlov, affirm that the Russian monarchists who were in Petrograd in the spring of 1918 themselves "invented" this plan for the restoration of Nicholas II on the throne with the support of Germany. But the truth is striking: the Germans are simply trying to renounce the failed enterprise [28].

I will give some details that give an opportunity to make a proper assessment of the denials of the gentlemen of the Ritzliers, the Hoffmanns and other "friends" of Russia.

Boris Soloviev, Anna Vyrubova and their companions are considered (correctly or not - we do not touch this) by the real agents of Germany in all this dark plan. The monarchists mentioned above sincerely believed the German promises to support the Romanovs and liberate them; through a reliable supporter they managed to deliver a letter to Tobolsk, which promised favorable treatment and patronage from Germany. The answer to these German assurances was given as negative, for the Emperor, as is evident from the above, did not want to hear about this; On the part of the Empress, the answer was a striking demand to abstain from any independent relations in the future and to submit to the instructions of the circle of Vyrubova. The unhappy Empress still blindly believed in their sincere devotion. We have seen that Solov'ev, equipped with money of doubtful origin, went to Tyumen and Tobolsk, where he acted together with another German agent, Vakhter, mainly to prevent anyone from entering into relations with the Tobolsk prisoners. He went so far as to be imprisoned with real monarchists, just to earn the trust and obtain from them the disclosure of secret information that he hurried to transmit in red; This way he eliminated all relations with Tobolsk, which could complicate the German plans. Two weeks before the transfer of the Emperor and Empress to the west, he, thanks to his secret relations with Moscow, already knows about this intention. The watchman hurries to Kiev and Berlin, but Solovyov, forgetting to take out of the bank money put in the name of his friend, is forced to stay.

Ritzler's version, confirming the Emperor's refusal to agree to an agreement with the opponents, casts a rather dubious light on the convening in Moscow in the spring of 1918 of a congress of all political parties, including monarchists. There, before the eyes of all of Russia, including before the eyes of the Bolsheviks, the official representatives of Germany made proposals already known to us to restore Nicholas II; then, after his second abdication (since the strength of the first is undermined by his coercive nature!), he can be elevated to the throne of the Heir. On this occasion, there was even a split between the moderate parties who wanted the Great Tsarevich Alexei. If we believe the then German leaders, this congress and everything that came out of it was just a comedy. Apparently, their refutation is in contradiction with their actions.

There is another statement from the same source; it leaves the question of restoring the monarchy to the side and tries to prove that Lenin and Sverdlov - in agreement with Mirbach, arranging the transfer of the Sovereign from Tobolsk, could very reasonably be guided by other motives.

According to Ritzler, the Germans and the Bolsheviks were equally interested in preventing the restoration of the Russian front; fearing that the people's armies from the Volga, Ural and Siberia will join their former Sovereign and thereby acquire a greater moral strength; they agreed to seize a special Sovereign through the unconscious mediation of Commissar Yakovlev. Further it is known: at this very time the Jews of the Moscow Soviet, following certain instructions, managed to intercept the Romanovs in Yekaterinburg and, in the end, to arrange beating of the whole Family. But today it can be considered established and not subject to any doubt that Lenin, who was fully aware of the Jewish plan to destroy all the Romanovs, did not agree to it and that the Germans, taking part in the abduction of the Emperor, thereby took on a heavy responsibility also in The fact that this abduction ended.

Thus, Emperor Nicholas II was not only a victim of his loyalty to the Allies of Russia; moreover, by the confession of His executioners, He died as a soldier, waiting at his post to resume the fight against a common enemy. Allied armies already now have the right and duty to consider Nicholas II as their heroic and main comrade. Allies won the battlefield German materialism. Let them also win over Bolshevism, born of the same spirit: only then will they render the King-Martyr, his comrade-in-arms, honorable.

Boris Soloviev was with the influential Berlin circles in the best possible way. The person is dark, suggesting more than suspicion, he has always been in close contact with Anna Vyrubova and the mystical charlatans surrounding Rasputin; he persistently spread the legend that the Emperor was saved by flying to Tibet to the Dalai Lama. The phenomenon is astonishing: he apparently managed to inspire confidence in this fiction among the eminent persons of Russian society and among the German conservatives; the latter, however, on hand to assure that the Emperor did not die, since the moral responsibility for the terrible end of Nicholas II and His Family lies on the government of Emperor Wilhelm.

Recently I received some information concerning how Rasputin reached his position at the Russian Court, and also about the past of his son-in-law Solovyov; they should be noted here: with some uncertainty, they can still serve as a starting point for future research. I have no doubt that the issue of the murder of the Romanovs for many years will remain the most famous legal case in the world.

According to these data it turns out that during his pilgrimage Rasputin after visiting Athos went to Bulgaria, where he met Ferdinand of Coburg. The Machiavellian soul of the latter immediately calculated the benefits that can be extracted from the pilgrim ... This exalted peasant of crude concepts, but not devoid of natural eloquence, could be used as a valuable tool. He pointed it at his Berlin friends and through them arranged for him to meet in Petrograd. Grishka was brought to the very steps of the throne, which had to be shaken. The insidious Bulgarian Tsar hoped to appropriate himself with the support of Germany the right to a Byzantine crown; But he could not have mastered him otherwise than by stepping on the wreckage of Russia. It is not difficult to understand why he became interested in Rasputin.

The story of Soloviev is connected with Rasputin. We know what benefits the Germans have gained from the influence that the "old man" had had long before the war and how valuable it was to them during the latter. However, Rasputin's life was hanging by a thread, and it was necessary to have a deputy in place, just in case. This role was entrusted to Boris Soloviev, apparently before the outbreak of the war, since traces of him were seen in the Berlin suburb of Charlottenburg; from here he supposedly went to the theosophical school in Adyar (India) in India to perfect in the occult sciences. In Berlin, no means were disdained to achieve the goal. Soloviev, in any case, is sufficiently advanced in the occult to successfully use it for his craft - espionage.

The inscription made by Kabbalistic writings on the wall of the murder room in the house of Ipatiev was reproduced in the English edition of my book (in 1920); on this occasion and received several letters from individuals who are versed in cryptography. It is established that the secret "codes" of some societies that have their main administrations in Germany and in which Jews are obviously involved, include letters similar to the Yekaterinburg inscription. Do we not here deal with secret intercourse between accomplices? [29]

It seems that secret forces are involved in the Romanov tragedy, as in some other phenomena observed during the war, but left unexplained or bypassed. This is understandable, since black magic in Germany is very common. But they say that out of all this came a consequence, similar to those that occurred from other secret and countless techniques used by magicians. An excess of evil causes a reaction. The science of the Allies responded to the poisonous gases of the Germans with even more terrible gases; The sorcery of the black magicians was answered by the forces of Goodness: they allegedly exerted powerful influence in favor of the allied armies in Mons and elsewhere. We have already seen that Bolshevism has turned against those who gave birth to it; sooner or later they will pay for the devastated Rus, and for the innocent blood shed in Yekaterinburg and throughout the face of Russia.

Paris, October 1922.

29. Here are a few excerpts from a letter I received on behalf of a very knowledgeable one, from Ms. Mesta Webster (Nesta Webster), the author of a remarkable book on the French Revolution, in which she resurrects the data of that time proving the active role Jews played in training and the explosion of the revolution of 1789: "Having followed the role of the German portholes in all the revolutionary movements of the last century, I am convinced that the current Bolshevik government receives instructions from a secret society that has its administration, probably in Germany ... Very noteworthy that of the four characters you reproduced, three are similar to the signs used by the Illuminati and which were printed by the Count Le Coutleux de Casteleu in his book "Les Seetes et les Socletes secretes" (1863) " .
Further investigations have yielded more positive results. The three signs used by the Jewish secret societies in Germany turn out to be taken from the Old Hebrew, Samaritan and Greek alphabets and denote the "heart" or figuratively "head" - the spiritual (Jewish sign) of the people (Samaritan) and political or state (Greek). This is precisely what a person stands for, like the Russian Tsar. A snapshot of the wall with the inscription shows the numbers on the windowsill, written with "the same ink and the same thick lines" face facing the wall. Apparently, in the same position the inscription on the wall is made, hence, it is necessary to read from the side. Then the Greek "lambda" is clearly marked. Probably, the exact meaning of both the inscription and the mysterious figures on the windowsill will eventually become known.
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon May 21, 2018 1:52 am

Well this has turned rich: a thread in which a former (allegedly) anti-Semite and Big H denier attempts to support the notion of "Jewish Bolshevism" by using the historical utterings of British anti-semites.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Mon May 21, 2018 2:36 am

So according to the BRoI, when the proven antisemitic hoaxer Wilton invented the "kabbalistic" symbols used by secret Jewish societies to which the murderers belonged (the symbols, of course, having nothing to do with kabbalah in real life) and claimed that Jews murdered the Tsar and his family according to a plan as Jews, not as Bolsheviks (since he invents the fact of the "Russian" Lenin being against it) it doesn't mean ritual murder.

It is to laugh.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon May 21, 2018 2:43 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Well this has turned rich: a thread in which a former (allegedly) anti-Semite and Big H denier attempts to support the notion of "Jewish Bolshevism" by using the historical utterings of British anti-semites.


Just because you’re not a denier anymore doesn’t mean you stop being a Jew hating freak. See Eric Hunt for example. Looks like Rabbit has gone from “Holocaust didn’t happen” to “Holocaust happened but Jews brought it on themselves because Some people claimed they were communists”.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon May 21, 2018 2:44 am

Probably the only thing Wilton got right was his NOT identifying Lenin as a Jew.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 21, 2018 3:17 am

So here we have Rabbit trying to entertain the idea of Jewish Bolshevism. . . And the day goes on, still wondering how the invented cork wall account from Broad is going.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon May 21, 2018 3:36 am

NathanC wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Well this has turned rich: a thread in which a former (allegedly) anti-Semite and Big H denier attempts to support the notion of "Jewish Bolshevism" by using the historical utterings of British anti-semites.


Just because you’re not a denier anymore doesn’t mean you stop being a Jew hating freak. See Eric Hunt for example. Looks like Rabbit has gone from “Holocaust didn’t happen” to “Holocaust happened but Jews brought it on themselves because Some people claimed they were communists”.


Poor Eric, is he still one foot in this shite?

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby iwh » Mon May 21, 2018 6:36 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:So according to the BRoI, when the proven antisemitic hoaxer Wilton invented the "kabbalistic" symbols used by secret Jewish societies to which the murderers belonged (the symbols, of course, having nothing to do with kabbalah in real life) and claimed that Jews murdered the Tsar and his family according to a plan as Jews, not as Bolsheviks (since he invents the fact of the "Russian" Lenin being against it) it doesn't mean ritual murder.

It is to laugh.


Also mentioned in the French edition.
For a debunking of new boy on the block John Wear see:

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon May 21, 2018 11:16 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
NathanC wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Well this has turned rich: a thread in which a former (allegedly) anti-Semite and Big H denier attempts to support the notion of "Jewish Bolshevism" by using the historical utterings of British anti-semites.


Just because you’re not a denier anymore doesn’t mean you stop being a Jew hating freak. See Eric Hunt for example. Looks like Rabbit has gone from “Holocaust didn’t happen” to “Holocaust happened but Jews brought it on themselves because Some people claimed they were communists”.


Poor Eric, is he still one foot in this shite?


In his defection statement quoted at HC, he still complains about how “Jews promote white genocide”. So yes.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Denying-History » Mon May 21, 2018 9:34 pm

NathanC wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
NathanC wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Well this has turned rich: a thread in which a former (allegedly) anti-Semite and Big H denier attempts to support the notion of "Jewish Bolshevism" by using the historical utterings of British anti-semites.


Just because you’re not a denier anymore doesn’t mean you stop being a Jew hating freak. See Eric Hunt for example. Looks like Rabbit has gone from “Holocaust didn’t happen” to “Holocaust happened but Jews brought it on themselves because Some people claimed they were communists”.


Poor Eric, is he still one foot in this shite?


In his defection statement quoted at HC, he still complains about how “Jews promote white genocide”. So yes.


Was well over a year ago. Don't think he's been active since his debate with Burg.
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby NathanC » Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 pm

For a relevant quote from someone whose statements and actions are actually relevant regarding the USSR and the Bolshevik movement, i.e.an insider, and not from irrelevant people like the Rabbit's fellow British antisemites going off on second hand information...

Stephen Wheatcroft and R Davies, and also Robert Conquest, mentioned an interesting and relevant exchange between Mendel Khateyevich (Jewish, but rarely mentioned by antisemites as will be apparent in a moment) and Molotov in the lead up to the Ukrainian famine. Khateyevich was another nobody; a random official from the Central Volga who was transferred and became another random official in Ukraine- the second secretary of the communist party, who took over when the first Secretary (The non Jewish Stanislav Kosior) was unavailable. Khateyevich did bring into effect some of the measures that contributed to famine and repressions, but his involvement was utterly insignificant compared to that of Kosior, Molotov, Postyshev or even Kaganovich. That being said, there was a time in 1932 when he tried to protest and slow down the impossible grain requisitions being demanded by the main USSR politburo. In an official pamphlet/guide for Communist party members, he wrote that only "commodity grain" or that meant for sales/profit should be available for collections, and not grain in general. Molotov protested against this, which resulted in Khateyevich doubling down on his statement. He still did insist, however, that some of the grain should be left to the farmers to ensure that they would be able to maintain and bring in the next harvest. Molotov's reply is telling.

Molotov wrote:Your position is fundamentally incorrect and Non Bolshevik.


Molotov would go on to state that the needs of the USSR- the state- outweigh those of the collective farmers and the few private farmers. Khateyevich would cave in and formally recant his initial statement before the Ukrainian Politburo. Later on, Khateyevich would complain to Stalin that the initial plan of 425 million poods was impossible and discouraged the farmers from performing as expected, since they believed it couldn't have been done. An initially lower target would've been better and wouldn't have discouraged the farmers. Stalin, not liking any complaints, would keep this in mind. Molotov, still mindful of his argument with Khateyevich, didn't help either and would help bury him.

It's very relevant that a high ranking official like Molotov (Head of the Council of People's commissars) told his Jewish subordinate (Khateyevich the nobody) that he was not a "real" bolshevik because of his views. Molotov was a known antisemite (his wife not withstanding) who often made antisemitic statements even in the presence of fellow Politburo Member Kaganovich, and would later go on to sign this document that the Rabbit really doesn't like. Molotov's official statement, quoted in a written order to his subordinate, accurately reflects the role and position of Jewish people like Khateyevich and others in the USSR, as well as the views of most of their contemporaries. As Jews, they were suspicious "foreigners" and not to be trusted unlike "real" Bolsheviks like Molotov, not the wire-pullers or Masters of the USSR. The Rabbit's invocation of Churchill etc. is nothing but an irrelevant appeal to authority. The actual actions and directives of the people running the USSR outweigh the opinions of British officials based on second hand info.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 21, 2018 9:58 pm

Sadly, I last studied Russian and Soviet history during my college years, in the 1970s. This was many decades before the latest academic breakthrough which has made "Jew counting" central to understanding Russian and European history.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby BRoI » Mon May 21, 2018 10:38 pm

iwh wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:So according to the BRoI, when the proven antisemitic hoaxer Wilton invented the "kabbalistic" symbols used by secret Jewish societies to which the murderers belonged (the symbols, of course, having nothing to do with kabbalah in real life) and claimed that Jews murdered the Tsar and his family according to a plan as Jews, not as Bolsheviks (since he invents the fact of the "Russian" Lenin being against it) it doesn't mean ritual murder.

It is to laugh.

Also mentioned in the French edition.


Would you please quote the entire paragraph and related footnote [two paragraphs presumably].

What year is your French edition?

Does it feature *the list*?
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: refuting the notion of "Jewish Bolshevisim"

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Mon May 21, 2018 11:52 pm

Funny fact: that claim by Putin about 80+% of the 1st SovGov being Jewish almost certainly originated with the hoax list by Wilton. Not directly though - rather, the list was repeated by Andrey Dikiy, whose books were quite popular in certain circles, and the claims therefrom were repeated in the yellow press that Putin, not being any kind of an intellectual, probably read.


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