Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:48 pm

I think two things have happened:
1) You've worn David down.
2) The Rabbit scared him off.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:49 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Reporting for duty. What are the orders? :-P


(And has David finally recognized Hunt's featured strawman called "LIES" - the inmates walking through the northern fumigation room adjoining the showers in barrack 41 - and then what? Turning into ghosts that seeped out through the western wall? Is that why he fell silent?)

I think he's still trying the find the western entry route by studying the March 1942 provisional plan more closely. :)
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:47 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think two things have happened:
1) You've worn David down.
2) The Rabbit scared him off.

BRoI's YouTube video, defending Hunt's claims about the bathhouses, remains posted, the points made and questions raised in this thread remain unanswered. That's basically what I know about deniers on this topic.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:16 pm

I wonder if BRoI will defend his videos issues.
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:BRoI's YouTube video, defending Hunt's claims about the bathhouses, remains posted, the points made and questions raised in this thread remain unanswered.


Here's my position on that video now:

1. It accurately shows how numerous historians and publication issued by the Majdanek museum lied about the post-war modification that connected Barrack 41 with the gassing bunker.

2. I wouldn't now argue that prisoners went through Barracks 41+42 in north-to-south direction. This is because of further bits of documentary evidence that show this was unlikely to have been the case following the erection of Barrack 41, the gassing bunker, and the canopy; along with the various pieces of testimony SM found that showed that prisoners had to hand over their luggage and valuables at Barrack 43 [I think it was 43, i can't find SM posts on it right now].

3. The evidence for gassings with CO at Majdanek is strong, but I remain unconvinced that there were ever homicidal gassings with Zyklon B at this particular camp.

4. Barracks 41+42 were purely bath delousing houses, I don't believe they played any function in a charade to trick prisoners about to be gassed.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:59 am

BRoI wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:BRoI's YouTube video, defending Hunt's claims about the bathhouses, remains posted, the points made and questions raised in this thread remain unanswered.


Here's my position on that video now:

1. It accurately shows how numerous historians and publication issued by the Majdanek museum lied about the post-war modification that connected Barrack 41 with the gassing bunker.

My argument was that the modification was not to conceal a northern entry, as Hunt claimed it was.

BRoI wrote:2. I wouldn't now argue that prisoners went through Barracks 41+42 in north-to-south direction. This is because of further bits of documentary evidence that show this was unlikely to have been the case following the erection of Barrack 41, the gassing bunker, and the canopy; along with the various pieces of testimony SM found that showed that prisoners had to hand over their luggage and valuables at Barrack 43 [I think it was 43, i can't find SM posts on it right now].

The Effektenkammer is described in various camp publications as barracks 43-44 and it isn't clear from testimonies which one is being mentioned by arriving prisoners, probably no. 43.

BRoI wrote:3. The evidence for gassings with CO at Majdanek is strong, but I remain unconvinced that there were ever homicidal gassings with Zyklon B at this particular camp.

That is Pressac's view. My estimate, and it is really loose (one of the interesting questions about Majdanek only touched on in this thread is that historians of the camp do not estimate the number of deaths in the gas chamber there) and comes from extrapolation, is that, based on Kranz's transports-in and transports-out figures, no more than 17,000 or so prisoners were murdered in the gas chambers. You have another YouTube video repeating what I believe is an error Graf made about Kranz's estimate. From what I can tell, Kranz gave a figure of 12,000 gassing victims during fall 1942 and the Warsaw liquidations in spring 1943 - not giving an estimate for the number of those gassed in the first part of 1943 or summer-fall 1943. These actions were mostly "culling" of prisoners from the Gammelblocks (invalids, those at Auschwitz known as Musselmanner) and smaller transports. Solid data on these actions is lacking. (I can dig up a post on this I made in this thread - earlier for the sake of argument, using the USHMM upper numbers, I'd told Nessie that the theoretical upper limit of Majdanek gassing victims has to be 25,000 - but using Kranz's data and scrubbing through what material I do have, I don't think the theoretical upper limit was approached.)

BRoI wrote:4. Barracks 41+42 were purely bath delousing houses, I don't believe they played any function in a charade to trick prisoners about to be gassed.

Nor do I.

I appreciate this reply, but IMO you really should take the video down as it is mostly incorrect - on questions 2-5, which made up the main grounds on which you said I was lying in this thread.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:06 pm

That said, over to David - western entry route, Hunt's northern entry claims, etc. What say you?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:28 pm

Just to provide a few things for Rabbit.

On the evening of October 21, 1943, Camp Doctor SS Untersturmfuehrer Rindfleisch told me that on that very day 300 children of three to 10 years of age had been asphyxiated with the “cyclone" preparation in a gas cell.

(SS Oberscharfuehrer Ternes, Pelt report fr Irving trial)

When people refused, ss members hit them with truncheons and forced them into the bath or the gas chamber. The gas chamber ceiling had a hatch in it, which was used to gas people. An as member used a ladder to climb to the roof, open the hatch, and threw the gas [Zyklon-B] through the hatch and into the gas chamber.

(Ernst Fischer, Female SS guards.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FnzvF3y8jWI
« Oral history is a complex field. After all, memory can be a distorting mirror, as anyone who has ever worked with memoir literature knows very well...They may be imperfect, and, at times, inaccurate as the narrator tries to cast himself in the most favorable light, but all sources are imperfect. Even an archival document reflects how the person who drafted it understood something and remains something less than the unvarnished truth. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:36 pm

With the usual caution regarding witness testimony in mind, I can list the following testimonies about method of gassing at Majdanek (ignore the "see above" notes, these come from a file on other issues):

by CO
Friedrich Wilhelm Ruppert – see above Bunker general
Heinz M. – see above July-October 1943
Heinz Müller – see above; also see below on trial
Kardaszewski – see above July-October 1943
Otto Rehder – see above Polish-Soviet Commission Chamber II
Stanisław Olszański – Polish prisoner – dismantling of CO tanks used in gas chamber Kranz p 56
Third Majdanek trial judgment ? (Düsseldorf, 1975-81) gives at least the following: witnesses to CO: Heinz Müller, Novak (Nowak), Fischer and Muhsfeldt; also possibly Morawski (Murawska?)
OPUS report 11 July 1943

using Zyklon B
Ernst Fischer – see above Bunker general
Rudolf Ettrich – see above Bunker general
Ludwig Benden – see above May-June 1943
Thernes – see above, Polish-Soviet Commission
Terner - ? as above – "In the evening of October 21, 1943, camp doctor Untersturmfuehrer SS Rindfleisch told me that that day three hundred children of ages ranging from three to ten were asphyxiated in the gas chamber with the substance 'Zyklon'." [would be last gassing?] – from Polish-Soviet Commission summary report
Delegatura reports – see above G&M pp 171-172: “the gas chamber stories already began circulating on May 7, 1943.
Wolski – see above, Polish-Soviet Commission
Gerstenmeier – see above, Polish-Soviet Commission
Third Majdanek trial judgment ? (Düsseldorf, 1975-81) gives at least the following: witnesses to Zyklon B : Cezarsky, Stanislawski, Skibinska, Ostrowska

We should at some point in this thread go back through physical evidence, including Pressac's argument, regarding the fixed gas chambers and also the testimonies/evidence about a gas van(s).
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:46 pm

SM wrote:My argument was that the modification was not to conceal a northern entry, as Hunt claimed it was.

Are you ready to admit that it was deceptively passed off by the museum as being an original feature to countless visitors, readers of their publications, and possibly even the Düsseldorf-Majdanek trial, as being an integral part of the "bathing" deception?


The Effektenkammer is described in various camp publications as barracks 43-44 and it isn't clear from testimonies which one is being mentioned by arriving prisoners, probably no. 43.

Okay, thanks.


That is Pressac's view. My estimate, and it is really loose (one of the interesting questions about Majdanek only touched on in this thread is that historians of the camp do not estimate the number of deaths in the gas chamber there) and comes from extrapolation, is that, based on Kranz's transports-in and transports-out figures, no more than 17,000 or so prisoners were murdered in the gas chambers. You have another YouTube video repeating what I believe is an error Graf made about Kranz's estimate. From what I can tell, Kranz gave a figure of 12,000 gassing victims during fall 1942 and the Warsaw liquidations in spring 1943 - not giving an estimate for the number of those gassed in the first part of 1943 or summer-fall 1943. These actions were mostly "culling" of prisoners from the Gammelblocks (invalids, those at Auschwitz known as Musselmanner) and smaller transports. Solid data on these actions is lacking. (I can dig up a post on this I made in this thread - earlier for the sake of argument, using the USHMM upper numbers, I'd told Nessie that the theoretical upper limit of Majdanek gassing victims has to be 25,000 - but using Kranz's data and scrubbing through what material I do have, I don't think the theoretical upper limit was approached.)

Yeah, I just borrowed Graf's calculation, but I won't argue with yours for the time being.


I appreciate this reply, but IMO you really should take the video down as it is mostly incorrect - on questions 2-5, which made up the main grounds on which you said I was lying in this thread.

I'm not sure what you mean by "questions 2-5" but I'd already typed out the following, before I typed this paragraph, on the assumption you meant the 4 bits of "evidence" I listed at the end of the video; now I'm not sure you did. Oh well.....

2.
I posted this contradiction in the PS report on rodoh before you picked up on it. But, as you know, I've already admitted I goofed by not noticing it in the first place.


3.
Regardless of the bath's position, I'm still convinced that the routine was not: get smothered with delousing fluid and immediately shower it off. And I recall you admitting in some post that you said you'd checked 120-ish testimonies [really!?], that there were many contradictions about the order in which the showering and delousing happened.

Days after you posted your response to my video I went to the library to read the book on the Central Sauna of Birkenau because I'd been baffled and amused by the testimony and photo from Pressac you'd presented as *proof* the prisoners were smothered with delousing fluid from the foot disinfection bath at the entry to the showers! 'Did they have to refill it every 5 minutes' I thought.

I've not been able to locate the notes and the photocopies I made from the book, but I seem to remember there were either 10 or 12 separate testimonies which mentioned the delousing/showering procedure and an exact split over the order in which they happened; half said delousing first, the rest said showering first.

I was most convinced by one that said they were smothered with delousing fluid from barrels as they left the showers and then had to stand in drying room, and another that claimed they had to dip their shoes in the foot bath when entering the showers. These claims are corroborated by this photo of prisoners holding their shoes and queuing for something [delousing?] on exiting the shower for the 'Trockenraum' [plan of CS].

But I think we should let this particular matter drop. I really don't see the point in arguing over contradicting testimonies, not when there's probably original documents somewhere that prove how the procedure happened. And it's kinda irrelevant when I've conceded to the south-to-north route.

4.
The Miedzyrzec Podlaski photo. Well, I put the annotations on the video within an hour of learning that Dunin was mistaken about it.

I just re-watched the video; I used the word "lying" twice and "lies" twice [@ 2:00 & @ 4:15] when referring to the six books and one article that all falsely claimed B&D1 was joined to the gassing bunker. Nowhere in the video did I claim you were "lying". Although you weren't so conscientious about me having taken a picture and caption in a Majdanek museum publication at face value.

I don't think I've really misrepresented what you had posted up until then on the March 1942 plan for B&D2. You didn't accept it as proof of a N-S route [for reasons I admittedly didn't spend 5 minutes detailing], and I was correct in stating that Kranz doesn't mention the document [although, yes, you didn't mean that only B&D2 was altered]. I think you're over-quibbling about me not having laid out your position in minute detail; I went with what would be your one-word answer to the question: 'Is this plan proof of a N-S route?'.

I really don't think I should delete the video, but I will add further annotations about the PS report being contradictory about the location of the undressing room and provided some links to this thread. It's not right to bury your older work because further evidence has since convinced you that your previous position was wrong, nor if your opponent isn't entirely happy about how their argument was presented in a basic form.

I hope you can agree with me about this.


We should at some point in this thread go back through physical evidence, including Pressac's argument, regarding the fixed gas chambers and also the testimonies/evidence about a gas van(s).

Definitely. It was all physical evidence [documents and layout] that convinced me the north-south route wouldn't have worked. I'll have to make a list of it all after I've re-checked Mattogno's book.

Thanks for posting the list of testimonies.

[edit: added hyperlink]
Last edited by BRoI on Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:57 pm

BRoI wrote:I really don't think I should delete the video, but I will add further annotations...


Are you gonna change/add something to the description underneath the video?

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:42 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Are you gonna change/add something to the description underneath the video?

I'll post details of the documentary and physical evidence that convinced me the N-S route wouldn't have worked on here shortly and then post a link to it with a brief explanation in the video description.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:05 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Are you gonna change/add something to the description underneath the video?

I'll post details of the documentary and physical evidence that convinced me the N-S route wouldn't have worked on here shortly and then post a link to it with a brief explanation in the video description.

I guess if the changes and corrections are clear enough on YouTube and not turn into a scavenger hunt, thanks for the editing. :-P

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:28 pm

I don't want to go through all this in detail. Just want to hit a couple points that we've not hammered into the ground yet.

BRoI wrote:
SM wrote:My argument was that the modification was not to conceal a northern entry, as Hunt claimed it was.

Are you ready to admit that it was deceptively passed off by the museum as being an original feature to countless visitors, readers of their publications, and possibly even the Düsseldorf-Majdanek trial, as being an integral part of the "bathing" deception?

I haven't studied how the museum presented this through the years in any detail at all. I'm not able to lay all this out but I think that what I've read about the shower-deception, etc through the years is flat-out wrong. (It fooled me for sure as I tried sorting out testimonies . . . ) Until the museum corrected what it said about the extension, yes, that was deceptive. I don't know enough about it to know why (motive, etc). I am about as enthused as Balsamo about memorialization, which is to say, jaundiced - but at the same time I've not studied it for any part of the Holocaust. So that's probably a 65-70% agreement?

BRoI wrote:
That is Pressac's view. My estimate, and it is really loose (one of the interesting questions about Majdanek only touched on in this thread is that historians of the camp do not estimate the number of deaths in the gas chamber there) and comes from extrapolation, is that, based on Kranz's transports-in and transports-out figures, no more than 17,000 or so prisoners were murdered in the gas chambers. You have another YouTube video repeating what I believe is an error Graf made about Kranz's estimate. From what I can tell, Kranz gave a figure of 12,000 gassing victims during fall 1942 and the Warsaw liquidations in spring 1943 - not giving an estimate for the number of those gassed in the first part of 1943 or summer-fall 1943. These actions were mostly "culling" of prisoners from the Gammelblocks (invalids, those at Auschwitz known as Musselmanner) and smaller transports. Solid data on these actions is lacking. (I can dig up a post on this I made in this thread - earlier for the sake of argument, using the USHMM upper numbers, I'd told Nessie that the theoretical upper limit of Majdanek gassing victims has to be 25,000 - but using Kranz's data and scrubbing through what material I do have, I don't think the theoretical upper limit was approached.)

Yeah, I just borrowed Graf's calculation, but I won't argue with yours for the time being.

Just in case David reads this and tries distorting the discussion, this is an area in which I am making a rough estimate based on various (probably inadequate) sources. I also wish that the museum and the USHMM addressed this issue directly. Even to say the number can't be reconstructed, if that's their view.

BRoI wrote:
I appreciate this reply, but IMO you really should take the video down as it is mostly incorrect - on questions 2-5, which made up the main grounds on which you said I was lying in this thread.

I'm not sure what you mean by "questions 2-5" but I'd already typed out the following, before I typed this paragraph, on the assumption you meant the 4 bits of "evidence" I listed at the end of the video; now I'm not sure you did. Oh well.....

Your 4 major arguments in support of northern entry, stating where you thought I could be proven wrong: the March 1942 blueprint, the northerly location of an undressing room in one barrack, the layout of the shower room, and the awning. I'm not going to go through the details of my position on each as I think we've both stated what we think, we seem to agree more than disagree at this point.

BRoI wrote:3.
Regardless of the bath's position, I'm still convinced that the routine was not: get smothered with delousing fluid and immediately shower it off. And I recall you admitting in a post that you said you'd checked 120-ish testimonies [really!?], that they were many contradictions about the order in which the showering and delousing happened.

To be clear, yes, more than that with some caveats: 1) full testimonies, excerpts, snippets, glosses; 2) nowhere near that number focus on the process used in the bathhouses, and most that do are almost impossible to decipher on precise questions like these. I've posted earlier in the thread about the handful that I found I could follow on this issue. (If I implied otherwise, that was sloppiness on my part; I didn't mean to.)

BRoI wrote:But I think we should let this particular matter drop. I really don't see the point in arguing over contradicting testimonies, not when there's probably original documents somewhere that prove how the procedure happened. And it's kinda irrelevant when I've concede to the south-to-north route.

On this one I do want to underscore one point I made earlier, that bathing could be in either sequence given the room layout:
North is toward the top. I’ve outlined the shower room in red and indicated the narrow passage to the shower room with a green dot, the entry to the shower room with a blue dot, and the disinfectant tubs with a yellow dot. Prisoners can easily walk in either end of this room, shower in the area north of the tubs and then bathe in the tubs, or bathe in the tubs and then shower in the shower area. What on earth is stopping them – either way?

So my feeling on the bath/shower sequence is, as with the other key arguments, the video is still misleading to anyone coming across it.

BRoI wrote:I just re-watched the video; I used the word "lying" twice and "lies" twice [@ 2:00 & @ 4:15] when referring to the six books and one article that all falsely claimed B&D1 was joined to the gassing bunker. Nowhere in the video did I claim you were "lying". Although you weren't so conscientious about me having taken a picture and caption in a Majdanek museum publication at face value.

You may have missed the title of the video. :)

My first reaction to the Miedzyrzec photo was that you knew where it was from. I don't believe that now. I still think that the video, overall, is misleading, but I don't think you lied about that photo. That said, despite our history of verbal fisticuffs, I hope that we can focus on other stuff in this forum.

BRoI wrote:I don't think I've really misrepresented what you had posted up until then on the March 1942 plan for B&D2. You didn't accept it as proof of a N-S route [for reasons I admittedly didn't spend 5 minutes detailing], and I was correct in stating that Kranz doesn't mention the document [although, yes, you didn't mean that only B&D2 was altered]. I think you're over-quibbling about me not having laid out your position in minute detail; I went with what would be your one-word answer to the question: 'Is this plan proof of a N-S route?'.

Which would have been, just to keep this straight, almost certainly, in no. 42. With the caveats that that type of barracks could be used differently to plan and that no. 41, while having the same basic design, had a different interior plan.

I now know more about bathhouse usage than I did over a year ago - and about prisoner arrival processes and the use of gas chambers than. But nowhere along the way do I feel that there was evidence to support Hunt's claim ("Truth") about northern entry.

BRoI wrote:I really don't think I should delete the video, but I will add further annotations about the PS report being contradictory about the location of the undressing room and provided some links to this thread. It's not right to bury your older work because further evidence has since convinced you that your previous position was wrong, nor if your opponent isn't entirely happy about how their argument was presented in a basic form.

I hope you can agree with me about this.

I was actually flattered that you made the effort :) It definitely prompted me to shift from showing that the north-south case wasn't proven to working out in detail and supporting, best I could, what I think was the case.

I have mixed feelings, actually. The main reason is the framing for the video.

One problem with the video as posted is that in my opinion, even with the one edit, it remains misleading and supportive overall of Hunt's Truth/Lies, which I think we agree now is not supportable. So, if you make edits that explain that the basic argument about northern entry is mistaken (I would put it more strongly when it comes to Hunt :)), and which somehow point out the evidence against Hunt's "Truth" route, my concern about the video's being misleading disappears. In this sense, I guess it depends . . . e.g., references to role of Effektenkammer and Rosengarten?

But there's another problem: I haven't watched the video in a long time, IIRC it is framed at the outset as dealing with the north-south point in Hunt's video and my insistence that evidence hasn't been shown to support that route. Something like that. Which is really the heart of what I take issue with.

So if you were to detail your reasons for changing your mind, which I am quite interested in hearing aside from the video, that might be a way to make me stop bitching.

You will find this difficult to believe, perhaps, but I do recognize your knowledge of Majdanek and so I hope we can keep the discussion here going, leaving behind the northern-entry "problem," because I think that problem's dealt with but I also believe that open questions about the camp remain.

BRoI wrote:
We should at some point in this thread go back through physical evidence, including Pressac's argument, regarding the fixed gas chambers and also the testimonies/evidence about a gas van(s).

Definitely. It was all physical evidence [documents and layout] that convinced me the north-south route wouldn't have worked. I'll have to make a list of it all after I've re-checked Mattogno's book.

Curious to see that.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:20 pm

Here's the documentary evidence that convinced me the N-S route is wrong.

1.
On the Pol-Sov report's schematic of B&D1, room 12 on the southern end of the barrack is denoted as "rozbieranie" [undressing]. This obviously supports the S-N route and is further evidence that the Pol-Sov report was correct when it stated that the undressing room was on the southern end of B&D2 and its contradictory claim about it being on the northern end was just a simple mistake.
Image


2.
Kranz [2010:43] cites a German document that appears to be titled "Umbau der Entwesungsanlage" [Conversion of the disinfestation plant]
On a plan for the rebuilding of gas chambers, this room [Chamber 4 - BRoI] was marked as a changing room (Ankleideraum) ['dressing room' is more accurate - BRoI]. This is certainly not a camouflage term since chambers in the bunkers (known to be used for murderous purposes) shown in this document are signed as 'existing gas chambers'.[11]

11. APMM, Photocopies, XIX-42, KL Lublin. Umbau der Entwesungsanlage.

If this document is as described it's the 'smoking gun' document to prove homicidal gassing by the nazis [if you ignore evidence presented by Mattogno that prove the bunker was being used for delousing linen from the start]. As Kranz didn't date the document, never mind publishing a facsimile, I'm suspicious that there's something we're not being told.

However, for the purposes of proving if the prisoners went through B&D1&2 in a N-S or S-N direction; this document does prove that the 'dressing room' was at the northern-end of the building and is further proof of the S-N route.


3.
This argument shouldn't be relevant to the extremists who insist that the gassing bunker wasn't used for delousing linen until after homicidal gassings had ceased.

SS-Untersturmführer Birkigt's 20 March 1943 report contains the following recommendation:
The disinfection facility must be enlarged to reflect the future size of the camp, and must be equipped properly. It must be large enough so that [...] b) clean people do not come into contact with dirty laundry,

[M&G 2012:62-63]

I think it's fairly obvious that the opposite would have been true: they didn't want dirty people coming into contact with clean laundry, something that would have been inevitable with the N-S route.

Another document discovered and published by Mattogno shows that the Fur and Clothing Works of Lublin delousing operation under the canopy was divided into a 'clean' and 'dirty' side.
Image
The obvious deduction is that unclean linen was taken into the bunker's Chamber 3 through its northern door, deloused with Zyklon B, and removed through its southern door.

It's implausible that the Germans would have had the unclean male prisoners [and new arrivals] entering B&D1 on the 'clean side' of the delousing facility—especially as the door to B&D1 was just a few feet from where freshly deloused linen was being removed from the southern door of Chamber 3—nor unclean female prisoners [and new arrivals] entering B&D2 on the facility's clean side.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:59 pm

Thanks, interesting. On point no. 2, Kranz (pp 47-48) cites Reinartz's interrogation by NKVD investigators (1946, not the Polish-Soviet Commission in 1944) in which Reinartz says:
People were mass murdered only in one gas chamber which was located in a brick building near the bathhouses. Other chambers were used only for disinfection.

Reinartz gave what Mailänder describes as "an extremely detailed description of the gassing process." (p 173; she dates his NKVD testimony to fall 1945) The importance of Reinartz's testimony on this point is that it runs counter to the conclusions of the Polish-Soviet Commission and later the Soviets and Poles about the number of gas chambers at Majdanek. Reinartz's testimony seems to partially align with point 2 in BRoI's post concerning so-called chamber IV. It shows that the 1940s investigators had direct testimony against their inflated count of homicidal gas chambers. (Reinartz may have meant the bunker as a gas chamber building or may have been specific about the large chamber to the west in the bunker, outfitted for CO only. Unfortunately, neither Kranz nor Mailänder included details on this interrogation saying whether Reinartz referred to CO - or Zyklon B.)

Reinartz was an SS medical orderly posted to Majdanek after being wounded on the eastern front and serving for a bit at Oranienburg. Along with SS man Perschon he was assigned duty in the bathhouses/gas chambers. Prisoners later testified that Reinartz was reluctant to participate in selections and spoke about camp incidents with prisoners in a way most SS men would never talk.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:03 pm

BRoI wrote:3. This argument shouldn't be relevant to the extremists who insist that the gassing bunker wasn't used for delousing linen until after homicidal gassings had ceased.


Not sure if that's really an "extreme" view, as they did have the dressing room at the end of B&D 1 to use for disinfecting, and I have really only found testimony that chamber 3 was used after the gassing program.

B&D 2 also had internal disinfection chambers.

Though rationally speaking it would make sense that the Germans did use it for disinfecting clothing during the gassing program.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks, interesting. On point no. 2, Kranz (pp 47-48) cites Reinartz's interrogation by NKVD investigators (1946, not the Polish-Soviet Commission in 1944) in which Reinartz says:
People were mass murdered only in one gas chamber which was located in a brick building near the bathhouses. Other chambers were used only for disinfection.

Reinartz gave what Mailänder describes as "an extremely detailed description of the gassing process." (p 173; she dates his NKVD testimony to fall 1945) The importance of Reinartz's testimony on this point is that it runs counter to the conclusions of the Polish-Soviet Commission and later the Soviets and Poles about the number of gas chambers at Majdanek. Reinartz's testimony seems to partially align with point 2 in BRoI's post concerning so-called chamber IV. It shows that the 1940s investigators had direct testimony against their inflated count of homicidal gas chambers. (Reinartz may have meant the bunker as a gas chamber building or may have been specific about the large chamber to the west in the bunker, outfitted for CO only. Unfortunately, neither Kranz nor Mailänder included details on this interrogation saying whether Reinartz referred to CO - or Zyklon B.)

Reinartz was an SS medical orderly posted to Majdanek after being wounded on the eastern front and serving for a bit at Oranienburg. Along with SS man Perschon he was assigned duty in the bathhouses/gas chambers. Prisoners later testified that Reinartz was reluctant to participate in selections and spoke about camp incidents with prisoners in a way most SS men would never talk.

David?


The argument that Chamber 1 was the main room used as a homicidal gas chamber is supported by:

1. There is only a viewing window into that chamber.
2. This post-war drawing of the gassing bunker published by Kranz which shows an exhaust stack on the roof of Chamber 1. Kranz claims it was for dropping in the Zyklon B, but I suspect it was for venting CO.
Image
Of course it's possible that Chamber 3 could also have been used for CO gassing as it was fitted with a pipe through which the gas could have been fed into the chamber.

I realise none of that will be news to you of course.



Not sure if that's really an "extreme" view, as they did have the dressing room at the end of B&D 1 to use for disinfecting, and I have really only found testimony that chamber 3 was used after the gassing program.

B&D 2 also had internal disinfection chambers.


I think it's an extreme view because the dressing room of B&D1 wasn't converted into a delousing chamber until early January 1943 and I understand that it was only used for delousing overnight; during the day it was still used as a dressing room.

We don't know a lot about the delousing chambers in B&D2 because the building is off limits to visitors and they have lined the interior of the windows with black plastic so you can't even look in through them. Simonov provided some description of them and the photo taken and published by Mattogno back in the 1990s shows that the Germans never constructed the small delousing chambers as per the March 1942 plan, instead creating one or more larger chambers.

Image
Perhaps [sufficient emphasis?] these are venting chimneys for the chamber[s] on the left.
Image

I find it difficult to accept that the SS-Lublin Fur & Clothing Works would have been forced to make do with the delousing chamber[s] in B&D2 [eventually supplemented with the larger *night hours only* one in B&D1] after their long-planned and built-to-precise-Testa-specification chambers were commandeered by Globocnick to become *exclusively* homicidal gas chambers [one of which was split into 2 separate GCs and one of the resulting smaller two was never even used]. And they would've struggled with maintaing "clean" and "dirty" sides under the canopy if they were just lugging the linen in and out of the delousing chambers in the barracks through the same doors.

Mattogno cites documents that prove in early Nov 1942 the SS-Lublin Fur & Clothing Works were getting estimates for the construction of four additional delousing chambers [pp.133-4]. They were never built, perhaps because it was realised that they had sufficient delousing space already even after the bunker was adapted to kill people with CO, as they could continue to use chamber 3 as a delousing chamber due to its infrequent/rare use as a homicidal gas chamber.

The details of the [surprisingly few] deliveries of Zyklon B is discussed by various authors but Mattogno covers them in Chapter 8 of his study. He argues that the shortage of the stuff during 1943 meant that what little the camp could obtain was used to delouse the prisoner barracks during the severe typhus epidemics. As a result both Chambers 3 & 4 were converted to hot-air delousing chambers [p.150]. If this argument has merit it would mean that the extensive prussian-blue staining in both rooms must have been created earlier. In other words; the staining in chamber 3 could not have occurred from Oct/Nov 1943 - July 1944 as the *extremists* would have it, because by that stage only hot-air delousing took place in the room.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:38 pm

BRoI wrote:...the dressing room of B&D1 wasn't converted into a delousing chamber until early January 1943 and I understand that it was only used for delousing overnight; during the day it was still used as a dressing room.


I might have missed an earlier posting about this^, but could you tell me where information on that is to be found?

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:57 pm

For the conversion:

Kranz, 2010, 43-45.

Mattogno & Graf, 2012, 147-151.

For the night-time only use, I'm basing that on the memoirs of Czeslaw Skoraczynski, a former inmate who worked in the delousing chamber in B&D1.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:03 pm

Denying-History wrote:
BRoI wrote:3. This argument shouldn't be relevant to the extremists who insist that the gassing bunker wasn't used for delousing linen until after homicidal gassings had ceased.


Not sure if that's really an "extreme" view, as they did have the dressing room at the end of B&D 1 to use for disinfecting, and I have really only found testimony that chamber 3 was used after the gassing program.

B&D 2 also had internal disinfection chambers.

Though rationally speaking it would make sense that the Germans did use it for disinfecting clothing during the gassing program.


I thought it was SM who made this point when I posted the response above.

Something I just spotted on the delousing chambers in B&D2:

Barrack no. 42
The Women's Bathhouse

[...]

Four cabins for disinfecting clothes with steam were installed next to the boilers.

- Maria Wisnioch, Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings, 2010, p.15
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:19 pm

Thanks, that is interesting to know.

Mattognos argument for the heater may have merit. This would be an interesting theory to look further into. I don't know if the stoves made by Maschinen und Apparatenbau were able to act as a disinfection heater though. I remember something off FG's website saying the stove/furnaces were able to reach 120*F. I have looked around for the model, but I haven't had much luck. My order of Kranz 2010 is still shipping, so not really sure if he mentions anything about the model.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:33 pm

BRoI wrote:For the conversion:

Kranz, 2010, 43-45.

Mattogno & Graf, 2012, 147-151.

For the night-time only use, I'm basing that on the memoirs of Czeslaw Skoraczynski, a former inmate who worked in the delousing chamber in B&D1.

Hey BRoI,

Looking at pp 43-45 of Kranz, I see it's where he follows Pressac in arguing that IV was not used as a makeshift or early gassing chamber, as Schwindt IIRC says may have been the case. Then Kranz raises the unresolved issue of gas vans at Majdanek, followed by discussion of the bunker. I can't find where he gives a date for conversion of IV into a disinfestation chamber. Can you point me to it so I don't become an ass about page refs again? :)

As to disinfestation capacity in the camp, which you alluded to earlier, I feel sure you know all this but for others . . . The Polish-Soviet Commission (PSC) report stated:
Chambers V and VI, located between Compounds I and II near the Laundry, were equipped with heating systems and also suited to the use of ‘Zyklon’. Accordingly, they too could have been used as chambers for poisoning human beings, but in view of their location / proximity to the Laundry, where the clothing that had belonged to the murdered people was taken to be washed, it follows that these chambers were also used for disinfestation.

In this way, the technical and sanitation-chemical examination of the hermetically sealable chambers of the Lublin concentration camp fully confirms the fact set out herewith, that all these chambers, and especially Nos. I, II, III and IV, were designed and used as sites for the systematic mass extermination of human beings by means of poisoning with poison gases such as hydrocyanic acid ( the substance Zyklon) and carbon monoxide. If Chambers V and VI were also used for disinfestation purposes, then only for the treatment of the clothing of exterminated victims.

(It's possible that Reinartz's allusion was to these facilities.) What's interesting in the PSC report is that describing V and VI this way hedges on their homicidal gas chamber count. Also, Kranz (p 42) says that the Interfield I rooms in the old crematory, near the laundry, were converted to disinfestation chambers in fall 1943. These rooms were referred to in a report of the Polish Underground as for delousing clothes and underwear by means of gas (p 43).

G&M concluded relative to V and IV as follows:
5 - Chamber V Barracks 28 Drying installation 11.75 × 6.00 70.5
6 - Chamber VI Barracks 28 Drying installation 11.75 × 6.00 70.5

I forget why G&M say that V and VI were drying facilities and not disinfestation chambers and missed finding their reasoning on a quick skim. I'll look again later.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:36 pm

That's interesting, the possibility of gas vans at Majdanek. That's the first time I've heard of that.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:46 pm

There's some material on this upthread. Here's what I have, from a file where I keep notes:
11) there are hints that early on IV may have been used (Schwindt apparently says it was); the use of a gas van, possibly in Lublin city, cannot be ruled out and there are testimonies about a gas van . . . 11 testimonies refer to a gas van . . . One Security Police officer in Lublin described a gas van in the vicinity. . . . some highlights on gas vans at Majdanek or in Lublin vicinity:

Alexander Donat - camp's first gas chamber was a covered truck in camp car pool used for murdering people with CO, whispered rumors, referred to as "soul destroyer" - in The Holocaust Kingdom, p 172 (“A couple of passenger cars, some trucks, and one covered van, which people described in a whisper as ‘the gas chamber," made up the motor pool. The van - the Russian expression for it meant ‘soul-destroyer’ - was, indeed, the first Majdanek gas chamber. Victims had been locked inside and killed with carbon monoxide.”)

Not clear whose testimony: indictment in Hackmann et al (1975-1981 trial) - 60 Jewish women selected between January and May 1943 for gassing in the truck - Kranz pp 44-45

Lothar Hoffmann (Security Police Lublin), interrogation of [?] (West-German investigators) [BArch B 162 / 5066, p. 179], on a homicidal gas van in Lublin ---> KdS Lublin (Hans)

Anna Böttcher (Jewish prisoner in Lublin), interrogation of 31 July 1959 (West-German investigators), [BArch B 162 / 5066, p. 185 ff.], on killing of Jews with a homicidal gas van in Lublin ---> KL Majdanek (Hans)

Benno Goldland (prisoner in Lublin), examination of [1949? 1950?] (München, West German trial, LG München) [BArch B 162 / 5066, p. 191], on killing of people with a homicidal gas van in Lublin ---> KdS Lublin (Hans)

Josef Müller (prisoner in Lublin), examination of [1949? 1950?] (München, West German trial, LG München) [BArch B 162 / 5066, p. 191], on killing of people with a homicidal gas van in Lublin ---> KdS (caution: Lublin It seems as if there were gas vans at the KdS Lublin that unloaded the corpses in Majdanek. There should be more on this in the BAL files on Lublin. One implication of these interrogations is that at some point the van murdered people in Lublin and unloaded the corpses at Majdanek.)

Stetdiener, an ex-soldier of the Polish army captured in 1939, and Atrokhov, a Soviet prisoner of war  - “The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission has established that in addition to the gas chambers, the Germans in Lublin utilized special automobiles known as "murder vans" for the purpose of putting people to death. The witnesses-Stetdiener, an ex-soldier of the Polish army, and Atrokhov, a Soviet prisoner of war, gave a detailed description of the machine in which the German fiends asphyxiated their victims with the aid of the exhaust gas from the engine.” The wording fits well with the interrogation reports which Hans posted. - from the Polish Soviet Commission report (1944); ‘More than once, gas vans came and brought fresh corpses. There could be no doubt that these victims had only just been asphyxiated, for the bodies were still warm... There were cases where these gas vans arrived three times daily. Externally, it was a truck with a massive metal box and metal floor; the door could be closed airtight. A hose ran from the engine under the box, connecting the engine with the box floor; there were numerous small openings in the floor, like a grid’ Polish Soviet Commission, p 189 in G&M

Atrochow – witness - ‘This gas van was a hermetically sealable bus, earthy gray in color; it could hold 60 people, who were poisoned in it with exhaust gas. The people were poisoned on the drive from the city to the crematorium, and they were always already dead on arrival at the crematorium. Obersturmführer Gotschik has provided me with detailed witness testimony about the gas van’ in Polish-Soviet Commission report, G&M p 189

(Three fraudulent testimonies on gas vans at Majdanek - Fissel, Peltz, Contract)

Rough notes. I haven't gone through this carefully.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:51 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:That's interesting, the possibility of gas vans at Majdanek. That's the first time I've heard of that.


I believe we concluded earlier in this thread that Gas Vans were used before the Bunker was set into operation. I believe that SM provided something from Kranz about some type of camp record mention gas vans.

On page 17 of the Soviet Communique they mention two witnesses whom describe "murder vans". Stetdiener and Atrokhov.

The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission has established that in addition to the gas chambers, the Germans in Lublin utilized special automobiles known as "murder vans" for the purpose of putting people to death.

The witnesses-Stetdiener, an ex-soldier of the Polish army, and Atrokhov, a Soviet prisoner of war, gave a detailed description of the machine in which the German fiends asphyxiated their victims with the aid of the exhaust gas from the engine.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:59 pm

Sorry, I haven't worked my way through all of this thread.

It makes sense, though. The SS used them in a lot of locations.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:09 pm

LOL please don't, it may cause injury to eyesight or health!
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:17 pm

Lol Jeff I will send you a PM of all the important posts of SM's. Its honestly not worth reading the entire thread, its mostly filled with Davids filth and repetitive requests.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:20 pm

:lol:
I don't want to endanger my health or eyesight!!!!

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:26 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Looking at pp 43-45 of Kranz, I see it's where he follows Pressac in arguing that IV was not used as a makeshift or early gassing chamber, as Schwindt IIRC says may have been the case.

Kranz and Scwindt both appeal to Pressac on Chamber 4 when claiming it *may* have been an experimental HGC because Pressac said it was all dependable on whether that window existed at the time. Kranz mentions an unspecified photo of B&D1 from 1942 on which this window supposedly isn't present; he implies it was a post-war creation.

I can't really disprove that as I don't know what photo he means and I never took any really good close-up photos of the window frame. I don't believe Prussian-blue staining even occurs on wood. Although this is just an assumption based on the wooden posts in chamber 4 which were definitely not post-war additions.


Then Kranz raises the unresolved issue of gas vans at Majdanek, followed by discussion of the bunker. I can't find where he gives a date for conversion of IV into a disinfestation chamber. Can you point me to it so I don't become an ass about page refs again? :)

He doesn't give a date, not even for the "smoking gun" document about its conversion that I mentioned earlier.

Mattogno quotes two documents regarding the building of the venting chimneys in January 1943 on p.133 and 150 which he insists were about Chamber 4 in B&D1.

I'll response to the remainder of your post separately.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:06 pm

BRoI wrote:Kranz and Scwindt both appeal to Pressac on Chamber 4 when claiming it *may* have been an experimental HGC because Pressac said it was all dependable on whether that window existed at the time. Kranz mentions an unspecified photo of B&D1 from 1942 on which this window supposedly isn't present; he implies it was a post-war creation.

I can't really disprove that as I don't know what photo he means and I never took any really good close-up photos of the window frame. I don't believe Prussian-blue staining even occurs on wood. Although this is just an assumption based on the wooden posts in chamber 4 which were definitely not post-war additions.


Kranz was talking about this photograph.

Image

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=515517#p515517

I also thought Pressac mentioned that the doors needed to be replace as well, but I may need to reread his essay.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:37 pm

Regarding the window in Chamber 4 which Kranz claims isn't present in a 1942 photo.

Kranz might be being cute here; perhaps there were no windows in the walls of B&D1 when that photo was taken.

B&D 1&2 are just a pre-fabricated horse-stables, the type of wooden structure that's synonymous with Birkenau which had over a hundred of them. The only windows they have as standard are those along each side of the raised part of the roof.

If—as was the case with B&D1—the nazis installed false ceilings [such as in the shower-room and the dressing room/delousing chamber] they would cut off any natural light coming through the original roof windows and it would be necessary to open new windows in the walls.

A 1 July 1942 document quoted by Mattogno

... describes Barrack 41 as “Horse Stable Barrack with Shower Facility,” [p.132]


There are six windows in the eastern wall of B&D1 [excluding the one in the brick extension which contained the heater used for Chamber 4].

Image

If none of these other windows is present in the photo then Kranz is misrepresenting its significance because it would have been taken prior to the windows being cut through.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:42 pm

Scrm already came up with the theory that wood was in place of a window. No one here claims it was used to kill people, and I believe Kranz even has his doubts from what SM has explained.
Last edited by Denying-History on Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:44 pm

Denying-History wrote:Kranz was talking about this photograph.

What makes you think that?

He said [p.44] the photo was "taken in 1942"; your photo must have been taken in 1943 because the brick structure that housed the heater for chamber 4 is present.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:50 pm

Kranz identifies the photo as summer 1942. Photo 7 in his book, showing construction of bunker with roof completed. That said, I don't know for sure that Kranz meant this photo.

IIRC the earlier discussion was that in 1942, when Schwindt and perhaps others think the room may have been used for some early gassings (in contrast to D-H's post), the window had not yet been installed in that part of the barrack. I believe some of the windows can be seen in the 1942 photo above but not the relevant window. My recollection is that the photo showed no photos north of the little annex. I will check the thread later.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby BRoI » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:47 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I can't find where he gives a date for conversion of IV into a disinfestation chamber. Can you point me to it so I don't become an ass about page refs again?


I kinda goofed when I answered this before by saying it must have been January 1943 as that's when the bill for opening the venting chimneys was dated.

Elsewhere in his study Matttongo give a earlier date for when the delousing began it in:

In late September or early October 1942 a hydrogen cyanide gas chamber was set up in Barrack 41, with an air heater joined to the east wall. Work was completed on October 22, and the locale was called “Delousing barrack with bath.” The area which had previously served as an undressing room was used as a gas chamber, without any extensive architectural modifications, which proves that it was a temporary facility. Chamber IV as it appears today has a very irregular shape, with two corners closed in on three sides (and therefore very difficult to ventilate) as well as an interior room equally difficult to air out. [...]

Probably this gas chamber was difficult to air out, since the Central Construction Office decided to install a ventilation chimney on the roof, for which purpose it turned to the Polish company Michał Ochnik which we have already encountered. The pertinent cost estimate of November 18, 1942, provided for the construction of two chimneys 0.75 m × 0.75 m × 1.70 m in size, with holes to be cut through the concrete ceiling. However, according to the invoice of January 8, 1943, only one chimney was actually built on the roof of the gas chamber; this chimney was connected “to 2 openings in the concrete ceiling via pipes on two sides.” There is no doubt that this was a ventilation system; this already follows clearly from the fact that the two openings in the gas chamber roof were installed along the extended axis of the air heater intake duct. [148-149]


So that photo may well have been taken in 1942.

It's weird that they used that room for delousing with HCN when the only way to aerate it was like this:

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:04 am

I thought there was a ceiling vent(s?) in that room? :scratch: (That square opening...)


ETA And if used at night (without bathers), they could as well have opened up the shower room and the side (and other) door(s) to help air it out...
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 am

Thanks, BRoI, that matches what I thought.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Postby Denying-History » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:23 am

scrmbldggs wrote:I thought there was a ceiling vent(s?) in that room? :scratch: (That square opening...)


ETA And if used at night (without bathers), they could as well have opened up the shower room and the side (and other) door(s) to help air it out...


1) The chamber has two ventilation chimneys.

2) that might depend if the shower room windows open up.
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