One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propaganda

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
Matthew Ellard
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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Matthew, I think I've found where the deniers get their ordinance information from:

Journalist's Guide to Firearms Identification


Yes that seems right. Holocaust Deniers like books with pictures.

Matthew Ellard
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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:18 pm

David wrote: Matthews- Why are you babbling about 30 ton presses? The Germans would have had inmates salvage captured Soviet munitions (like UXBs)


David. You cannot salvage UXBs. You can only modify them to make IEDs. ( you really are an idiot). The germans captured large Soviet 76.2 munition dumps at the start of Barbarossa. They used these 76.2mm shells in captured 76.2mm guns on the Marder 1 and the Marder 2 as the German 50mm anti tank gun could not penetrate the T-34 and KV-1 and the German 88mm anti-tank guns were in very short supply as it was primarily a FLAK gun. (The PAK-40 75mm was not developed yet) When these 76.2mm gun barrels wore out they were rechambered at Rhinemetal as 75mm so they could use the standard German panzergrenate-42. This process was administered by the Todt Org, not the SS. The Todt Organisation administered this and its records are complete. Each russian 76.2 barrel was numbered and the story is well documented
(Feel free to read the history of Marder panzerjagers anywhere on the net)

In your bizzare fabrication you believe jewish concentration camp unskilled women and children were sent scouring over the Polish countryside looking for used Russian shells that could be "fixed". After returning to Treblinka, the untrained workers, without lathes, a foundry or any tools or high explosives "reprocessed" these shells using their bare hands, inserting new fuses, driving bands and inserting the HE. Even more hilarious is that you also need a brass foundry for the diving charge as 76.2mm shells are "Quick Fire" meaning the driving charge is "connected" to the shell rather than loaded behind the shell as a separate cordite bag.

Because you are an idiot you forgot that the brass driving cartridge remaines in the Soviet gun after it shoots the shell. This would have to be rebuilt from scratch!


David got caught lying
You made up a story and got caught. You are now trying to justify you lie. Sadly you don't know anything about ordinance or how big guns work. You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Thankfully I have a rather large library on this exact subject matter as my hobby is German armour development.

Prove you did not make this up on the spot,
1) What exact soviet munitions were being reprocessed at Treblinka?
76.2mm SPrGr-42 QF for the Flak 76.2mm M38(r)?
76.2mm PzGr-42 QF for the Flak 76.2mm M38(r)?
76.2mm LgrGr QF for the Flak 76mm M38(r)?

2) Where, at Treblinka, was the brass sheet press for making the cartriges that need to be attached to the shell. ("hint" it will be the size of 1/4 of a football field and is normally connected to a foundry and heavy lifting cranes. Try looking at photos of the Krupp's brass sheet press to get a feeling for the size)

3) Where is the "slag" and "shavings" pit at Treblinka?

4) To what power grid was Treblinka connected to operate lathes, presses, melt brass, shrink diving bands on shells, etc.......

5) Link us to any ( I mean ANY) evidence that any weapons or ordinance were manufactured at Treblinka death camp.


David wrote: Try another strawman.

No David, I'm clearly stating that you made up the entire story. As it is your story you need to provide evidence. As none exists it simply confirms that you have lied again.

David wrote: Let's see if you can address the FACT...no gold ever found at Treblinka by Lukaszkiewicz or anyone else including during the extensive
excavations needed for the monuments

I don't know if Lukaszkiewicz found any gold or not. He doesn't say when he talks about human body tissue from the 713,555 executed there. However the curator of the Treblinka Trust confirms that locals were still sweeping the ground with metal detectors ten years ago. The germans took the gold from people's teeth at the time of execution and this is confirmed in SS documents about 18kg to 36kg of gold being shipped from Treblinka to Warsaw ( plus the 215,000 shoes, 347,000 overcoats etc)

David wrote: NO ONE HAS EVER PRODUCED ONE GOLD COIN despite extensive official digging and the building of a large monument at the site. The physical evidence at the site contradicts your tales.

You do not use coins in your teeth. (idiot). The SS took the gold at the time of execution and documented it.. Shall I supply this link yet again?


David wrote: Matthew- The site had bombs lying around, shrapnel and 15 foot deep craters. Tons is probably the correct amount. Unfortunately, the Soviets
and Poles destroyed the evidence. :shock: :shock:

So Lukaszkiewicz "destroyed the evidence" of bombs near craters by directly discussing the bombs near craters in a public report. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

David wrote: There is NO Trace of your oceans of bones and mountains of gold.

1) They burnt all the bodies they could to hide the evidence you complete idiot!
2) The SS took the gold at the time of execution as clearly stated in SS documents!

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: Matthews- Why are you babbling about 30 ton presses? The Germans would have had inmates salvage captured Soviet munitions (like UXBs)


David. You cannot salvage UXBs. You can only modify them to make IEDs. ( you really are an idiot).

In your bizzare fabrication you believe jewish concentration camp unskilled women and children were sent scouring over the Polish countryside looking for used Russian shells that could be "fixed".


David got caught lying
You made up a story and got caught. You are now trying to justify you lie. Sadly you don't know anything about ordinance or how big guns work. You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Thankfully I have a rather large library on this exact subject matter as my hobby is German armour development.

Prove you did not make this up on the spot,
1) What exact soviet munitions were being reprocessed at Treblinka?
[snip more diversions]

[snip insults]

David wrote: Let's see if you can address the FACT...no gold ever found at Treblinka by Lukaszkiewicz or anyone else including during the extensive
excavations needed for the monuments

I don't know if Lukaszkiewicz found any gold or not.

He didn't.

[snip diversion]

David wrote: NO ONE HAS EVER PRODUCED ONE GOLD COIN despite extensive official digging and the building of a large monument at the site. The physical evidence at the site contradicts your tales.


You do not use coins in your teeth. (idiot). The SS took the gold at the time of execution and documented it..

You tap dance so badly, Matthew or just have trouble remembering
your own "explanations." You claimed that the bombs and craters
at Treblinka II were the result of peasants exploding their collection of
bombs off to find gold. In fact, the amazing gold tales were not about
gold teeth. In fact, The vast majority of (the small amount) of victim gold came
from coins and jewelry, not teeth. You are wrong again



David wrote: Matthew- The site had bombs lying around, shrapnel and 15 foot deep craters. Tons is probably the correct amount. Unfortunately, the Soviets
and Poles destroyed the evidence. :shock: :shock:

So Lukaszkiewicz "destroyed the evidence" of bombs near craters by directly discussing the bombs near craters in a public report. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!
Why don't you think a bit, Matthew? Yes, all the evidence
of Treblinka II has been destroyed. It has been covered by the monument
and the field of marker stones.
The craters, the foundations, the
pits, the fences, and the still standing bakery building.

David wrote: There is NO Trace of your oceans of bones and mountains of gold.

1) They burnt all the bodies they could to hide the evidence you complete idiot!
2) The SS took the gold at the time of execution as clearly stated in SS documents!


|Matthews, you dance between one stupid "explanation"
to the next. Lukaszkiewicz claims to have found an "ocean of bones."
You Believers spread the tale of brutish Poles rooting up Jewish gold.
But no bones littered the landscape at Treblinka when the public started
visiting the site in the 1970's
No gold has ever been found.


-Bombs at Treblinka
Numerous bombs and large bomb craters were found at Treblinka II. Why?
Your explanation that peasants would get large bombs and
then blow them up to find gold is a bad Polish joke.
Why blow off a 100 kg. bomb to dig a 15 foot hole. Any gold coins
would be buried in the top few feet of the soil...not 14 feet down.
The explosion would scatter and destroy anything valuable.

So what could be the real reason the bombs were brought into the camp?

Either the Germans brought them in to be utilized or
the Soviets brought them in to destroy evidence.

In support of the idea the Germans bought them in...
" Many camps were forced labor camps, providing slave laborers for munitions factories, quarries and local businesses."
and
"More Jewish prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz in April 1943, November 1943, January 1944 and February 1944 to work in the munitions factories at Mauthausen and the three Gusen sub-camps."
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/mauthause ... /Jews.html

In fact, inmates were used to disarm dud bombs at Dachau.
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=22415

So it seems reasonable that inmates were used for dangerous munitions jobs
like processing unexploded ordinance.

Your idea that dud bombs can't be reprocessed for metal and explosives
doesn't seem correct. There is even a patent issued for bomb
reprocessing, and I don't think it was issued to one of your
Taliban peasants.

See: Removing an explosive substance for reprocessing
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6320092.html

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:21 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Prove you did not make this up on the spot,
1) What exact soviet munitions were being reprocessed at Treblinka?
David wrote: [snip more diversions]

So you don't know. In other words you have been caught lying again.

David wrote: Let's see if you can address the FACT...no gold ever found at Treblinka by Lukaszkiewicz or anyone else including during the extensive
excavations needed for the monuments

Matthew Ellard wrote: I don't know if Lukaszkiewicz found any gold or not.

David wrote:He didn't.

When did you ask him?

David wrote: NO ONE HAS EVER PRODUCED ONE GOLD COIN despite extensive official digging and the building of a large monument at the site. The physical evidence at the site contradicts your tales.

You do not use coins in your teeth. (idiot). The SS took the gold at the time of execution and documented it..

David wrote: You tap dance so badly, Matthew or just have trouble remembering
your own "explanations." You claimed that the bombs and craters
at Treblinka II were the result of peasants exploding their collection of
bombs off to find gold. In fact, the amazing gold tales were not about
gold teeth. In fact, The vast majority of (the small amount) of victim gold came
from coins and jewelry, not teeth. You are wrong again

1) And from what document or book have you gathered this fact?
2) Are you now agreeing that gold was taken from the 713,555 people executed at Treblinka?
3) What gold coin was minted in Poland?
(Again, you made up this fact about gold coins and will be unable to supply any supporting documents as you are a liar )


David wrote: Matthew- The site had bombs lying around, shrapnel and 15 foot deep craters. Tons is probably the correct amount. Unfortunately, the Soviets
and Poles destroyed the evidence. :shock: :shock:

So Lukaszkiewicz "destroyed the evidence" of bombs near craters by directly discussing the bombs near craters in a public report. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

David wrote: Why don't you think a bit, Matthew? Yes, all the evidence of Treblinka II has been destroyed. It has been covered by the monument and the field of marker stones. The craters, the foundations, the pits, the fences, and the still standing bakery building.

You are an idiot
1) We have photos of Treblinka during body burning
2) We have photos of body parts and human ash from 1945
3) We have SS documents stating how many were executed
4) We have SS documents concerning the 215,000 shoes and other clothes taken from the executed victims.
5) We have confessions from Treblinka's C.O.
6) We have witness statements
We have tons of evidence. You refuse to read the Hofle Telegram because you are a neo-nazi holocaust denier who makes stuff up.


David wrote: There is NO Trace of your oceans of bones and mountains of gold.

1) They burnt the bodies they could to hide the evidence you complete idiot!
2) The SS took the gold at the time of execution as clearly stated in SS documents!


David wrote: -Bombs at Treblinka Numerous bombs and large bomb craters were found at Treblinka II. Why?

Because the Red Army fought Army Group Centre in the area during operation Bagration when the Germans were retreating Not all Soviet ordinance "went off" after they fired it. Didn't you know?

David wrote: Your explanation that peasants would get large bombs and
then blow them up to find gold is a bad Polish joke. Why blow off a 100 kg. bomb to dig a 15 foot hole.

They didn't use 100kg bombs. There is no such thng as a Russian 100kg bomb. They used one or more standard 9.24kg Russian artillery shells that were duds.

David wrote: Any gold coins would be buried in the top few feet of the soil...not 14 feet down. The explosion would scatter and destroy anything valuable.

Lukaszkiewicz's photo of himself is standing in a 7.5metre mass grave. You are pretending to forget again .....silly holocaust denier.

David wrote: So what could be the real reason the bombs were brought into the camp?

To break the permafrost and make it easier to sift the soil you idiot.

David wrote: Either the Germans brought them in to be utilized or
the Soviets brought them in to destroy evidence.

Complete rubbish! Why would the Russian want to destroy evidence of a crime? The Germans dismantled Treblinka to hide their crime! The locals used dud Russian artillery shells to do this when the Russian army moved on. There is a photo of them doing this.

David wrote: In support of the idea the Germans bought them in...
" Many camps were forced labor camps, providing slave laborers for munitions factories, quarries and local businesses."

That was in industrial camps. We are talking about Treblinka in rural Poland. Stay on topic.

David wrote: "More Jewish prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz in April 1943, November 1943, January 1944 and February 1944 to work in the munitions factories at Mauthausen and the three Gusen sub-camps."

Is Auschwitz and Treblinka the same camp? Wow you really are confused!

David wrote: In fact, inmates were used to disarm dud bombs at Dachau.

Dachau is in Germany David. Is Dachau the same camp as Treblinka? Bombs are not artillery shells. No one bombed Treblinka. The Soviets shelled the retreating German army. Are you still confused?

David wrote: So it seems reasonable that inmates were used for dangerous munitions jobs like processing unexploded ordinance.

You do not reprocess dud artillery shells or dropped bombs. I have already explained this in detail but you simply deleted and ignored my explanation.

David wrote: Your idea that dud bombs can't be reprocessed for metal and explosives doesn't seem correct.

How did they replace the driving bands on the shells David?
Where did they smelter and press the sheet brass for the cartridges at Treblinka David? You made the story up and got caught lying.


David wrote: See: Removing an explosive substance for reprocessing
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6320092.html

So a 1999 Russian patent for removing liquid explosives using a large separation exchange machine is related to Treblinka in what way? Did Treblinka have a time machine or did the Germans invent the same machine but only use at Treblinka in rural Poland. (You are so stupid it's hilarious)

Lets us recap your information to date
1) You can't state the type of munitions that you claimed were being reprocessed at Treblinka.
2) You can't supply any book, paper, website or even a CODOH looney's post that even hints munitions were ever at Treblinka.
3) You believe that untrained children, women and men reprocessed Soviet munitions with their bare hands at Treblinka although the camp was run by the SS and not the Todt Organisation.
4) Your new fantasy is that victims at Treblinka sucked Russian high explosives out of Russian shells to put into German shells despite the fact the Germans used a different sort of high explosive that was put into the shell on the production line in Germany. ( You deserve a Stundie for this theory)


At least Saggy and Dogzilla think through their lies before making them. You really need to try harder when you make stuff up.

Treblinka was a death camp and your beloved Nazi executed over 800,000 victims there. Get over it. Your stupid holocaust denial neo-nazi cult and its lying propaganda is over. You are a laughing stock. Even David Irving agrees with me about Treblinka.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:50 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: David wrote: NO ONE HAS EVER PRODUCED ONE GOLD COIN despite extensive official digging and the building of a large monument at the site. The physical evidence at the site contradicts your tales.


You do not use coins in your teeth. (idiot). The SS took the gold at the time of execution and documented it..


Matthews- The sign of a Believer is that a Believer can scream two
entirely contradictory claims within seconds. Here you are "explaining"
the bombs and large bomb craters by claiming that Polish peasants
were collecting large amounts of gold.
Then you "explain" the total lack of any gold ever being found at
Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise by claiming
"the SS" took it all.

As to the vast hoards of gold that Believer propaganda has the
greedy Poles digging up, you miss the obvious, the Ugly Myth is
that the brutish Poles dug up jewels, gold, silver coins.
Guess what, Matthews? NOTHING PARTICULARLY VALUABLE
or noteworthy was found either by Lukaszkiewicz or anyone else including
during the extensive excavations needed for the monuments.
So, you vent your ugly anti-Polish hate (presumably) without considering
the real evidence of a total lack of valuables being found.

Same with your tap dancing about the bombs and bomb craters
found on the site. Now Treblinka is the site of a battle, dixit Matthews!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Realize how stupid your "explanation" of
finding hidden gold and jewels by blowing 15 foot deep holes was?

Lukaszkiewicz is specific. Bombs...not your
artillery shells. 15 foot deep craters.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Lukaszkiewicz's photo of himself is standing in a 7.5metre mass grave. You are pretending to forget again .....silly holocaust denier.


Matthews, you are tumbling over yourself again.
Lukaszkiewicz started off looking for mass graves and did not find
any even at the spot where they were reported.

So, as a fall back "explanation" he claimed that the Germans "MUST
HAVE
"cremated all the bodies.
Lukaszkiewicz's photograph is slightly more vague that the photograph
of the Loch Ness monster.
See: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/phot ... ons_photo/

Then they dragged the a few bones in and took a picture of
that. Again, you seem to miss the contradiction between the
claim that the Germans carefully cremated all the bones and
the "proof" shown of some uncremated bones.
The obvious point is all your bones have disappeared.
So, Matthew, you believe in the miracles of the ascending
bones, the evaporating bodies, the melting gold, and the
occultation of the diamonds. Let us close our eyes and kneel
in the deepest belief.

For anyone rational,
what was actually found at Treblinka was No gold, no diamonds,
a few bodies, bombs and bomb craters, garbage pits.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:38 am

David wrote: Matthews- The sign of a Believer is that a Believer can scream two
entirely contradictory claims within seconds. Here you are "explaining"
the bombs and large bomb craters by claiming that Polish peasants
were collecting large amounts of gold.
Then you "explain" the total lack of any gold ever being found at
Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise by claiming
"the SS" took it all.


That's right David. However, I never said the Polish peasants found "large amounts" of gold. Idiots use metal detectors up and down beaches even today and don't find anything. You made up my quote about Polish peasants finding "large amounts of gold" because you are a lying holocaust denier who makes things up. You can't help yourself.

In your last post you also made up the story that the peasants were looking for gold coins. When I asked you what gold coin was issued in Poland you ran away (Idiot)


David wrote: Lukaszkiewicz is specific. Bombs...not your artillery shells. 15 foot deep craters.

You idiot. Lukaszkiewicz is Polish and didn't use either english word in his Polish report. He used the word "DETONOWANIE" amd "BOMBA". Didn't you know the Polish report was in Polish? tsk tsk tsk.....not the smartest holocaust denier are you?

Matthew Ellard wrote: Lukaszkiewicz's photo of himself is standing in a 7.5metre mass grave. You are pretending to forget again .....silly holocaust denier.

David wrote: Matthews, you are tumbling over yourself again. Lukaszkiewicz started off looking for mass graves and did not find any even at the spot where they were reported

So the reason there is a photo of him standing in a 7.5 metre mass grave is because?........The reason he took photos of body parts and human ash that I keep posting for you is because?......( David is a stupid holocaust denier who makes stuff up and hand-waves any evidence he can't understand)

David wrote: So, as a fall back "explanation" he claimed that the Germans "MUST HAVE"cremated all the bodies.

Err no David, the human ribs, hip bones sticking out of the human ash are the ones the Nazis failed to dig up and burn when the Nazis were destroying the evidence of their crime before the Red Army advanced to Treblinka.

David wrote: Lukaszkiewicz's photograph is slightly more vague that the photograph of the Loch Ness monster.

To you David, but that's because you are really stupid and a holocaust denier. Human ribs are human ribs.

David wrote: Then they dragged the a few bones in and took a picture of
that.

I see. Your new theory is that Lukaszkiewicz, a Polish judge, always travels with five or six skeletons in his travel bag "for emergency trick photos". ( You are so funny!)

Well what can I say? You have now run away from every question I have asked you. I did enjoy your comical theory that Treblinka inmates were sent to scour the Polish countryside for unexploded Soviet munitions and returned to camp to use a russian explosive separation device invented in 1999. You zany revisionist you!

Shall we try again?


1) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions? (YES/NO?)

( You made this story up and got caught )


2) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say the peasants were looking for gold COINS ( YES/NO?)

(You made this up and got caught. Poland didn't issue gold coins)


3) Where did the 713,555 inmates, detailed in the internal SS Hofle telegram, that arrived in Treblinka prior to 30Dec42 go?

(You "say" there was 5,000 but won't support your guess because you made it up)

4) Why did the SS ship back 315,000 overcoats, 2700 children's aprons, 315,000 used shoes, 87,000 women's dresses etc from Treblinka after they arrived, according to SS documents?

(David guesses that the inmates not only reprocessed munitions in their bare hands but also in the nude).

5) Where did the SS obtain 18kg to 36kg of gold (not gold coins) a week to ship from Treblinka to Warsaw, according to SS documents?

( The SS document says gold, not gold coins. No Polish gold coines existed. The SS would have counted gold coins for their monetary value rather than weight them, but David isn't that perceptive). .

David wrote: For anyone rational,

Here is one photo of dead body parts sticking up from human ash at Treblinka in a series of photos taken by a Polish Judge investigating Treblinka.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... a_1945.jpg

Or you may prefer David's guess that the Polish judge faked the skeletons for reasons unknown and David's guess that Treblinka was a factory for reprocessing soviet munitions (although David can't say what munitions...) using a Russian machine invented in 1999. David also says the SS document that states 713,555 people were executed there, that gold and clothing were shipped from Treblinka were all faked by people in Poland, Russia and England (hofle telegram) in a conspiracy ( I assume jewish?)

David wrote: Matthews.....

Why am I now "plural"? ( You should not drink when responding to posts)

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:57 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
In your last post you also made up the story that the peasants were looking for gold coins. When I asked you what gold coin was issued in Poland you ran away (Idiot)


A new book by the controversial historian and sociologist Jan Tomasz Gross describes how Polish gold-diggers robbed Jewish corpses in the area of the Treblinka Nazi death camp immediately following WW II.

http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382




David wrote: Lukaszkiewicz is specific. Bombs...not your artillery shells. 15 foot deep craters.

You idiot. Lukaszkiewicz is Polish and didn't use either english word in his Polish report. He used the word "DETONOWANIE" amd "BOMBA". Didn't you know the Polish report was in Polish? tsk tsk tsk.....not the smartest holocaust denier are you?
Gee, Matthew, what do you think bomba means in English?


Matthew Ellard wrote: Lukaszkiewicz's photo of himself is standing in a 7.5metre mass grave. You are pretending to forget again .....silly holocaust denier.

David wrote: Matthews, you are tumbling over yourself again. Lukaszkiewicz started off looking for mass graves and did not find any even at the spot where they were reported

So the reason there is a photo of him standing in a 7.5 metre mass grave is because?. ?? Exactly for the reason he states,
he didn't find a mass grave


David wrote: So, as a fall back "explanation" he claimed that the Germans "MUST HAVE"cremated all the bodies.

Err no David, the human ribs, hip bones sticking out of the human ash are the ones the Nazis failed to dig up and burn when the Nazis were destroying the evidence of their crime before the Red Army advanced to Treblinka.

:roll: :roll: So you are claiming that the unburnt bones in a
cremation pit but somehow didn't burn?
Or do you admit that the evidence was tampered with.




Well what can I say? You have now run away from every question I have asked you. I did enjoy your comical theory that Treblinka inmates were sent to scour the Polish countryside for unexploded Soviet munitions and returned to camp to use a russian explosive separation device invented in 1999. You zany revisionist you!

Shall we try again?

How about trying again... at reading what I wrote. metal and
explosives were salvaged in other German camps. Inmates were cheap labor.
The UXB were obviously brought to the camp. Why?



1) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions? (YES/NO?)

( You made this story up and got caught )


2) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say the peasants were looking for gold COINS ( YES/NO?)

(You made this up and got caught. Poland didn't issue gold coins)

[/quote]
?? Matthews, you truly are a disconnected goofball.
I happen to have a few Polish Gold coins. For Polish gold coins from the
1920's See: http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/poland.html
But gold coins come from many countries.

But you even have the entire argument assbackwards.
It was Lukaszkiewicz who tried to explain the bombs and
bomb craters by the tale of brutish Poles rooting around for Jewish gold.
NOT ME.
You are wasting your hot air on your own side. :D :D
Of course people didn't blow off bombs to find a coin or diamond
hidden in a few inches of soil (theoretically) No one has ever
found any gold at Treblinka.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:24 pm

David wrote: A new book by the controversial historian and sociologist Jan Tomasz Gross describes how Polish gold-diggers robbed Jewish corpses in the area of the Treblinka Nazi death camp immediately following WW II.
http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382


Quotes from Link
“The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked"

"this haunting photograph in fact depicts a group of peasants-"diggers" atop a mountain of ashes at Treblinka, where some 800,000 Jews were gassed and cremated" ( I have already mentioned this photo David three times)

"the crops scattered in front of the group are skulls and bones".

Excellent! You now agree that the Polish peasants dug for gold, found body parts and that the article does not mention gold coins once. Therefore you acknowledge you lied about gold coins and you lied about there being no body parts.


David wrote: Lukaszkiewicz is specific. Bombs...not your artillery shells. 15 foot deep craters.

Matthew Ellard wrote: You idiot. Lukaszkiewicz is Polish and didn't use either english word in his Polish report. He used the word "DETONOWANIE" amd "BOMBA". Didn't you know the Polish report was in Polish? tsk tsk tsk.....not the smartest holocaust denier are you?

David wrote: Gee, Matthew, what do you think bomba means in English?

"Explosive device". PRZEWIEZIONY DROGĄ BOMBA is Polish for "a bomb" dropped from a plane. "Bombe" is a French Napolenic word for "loud noise" adopted by England in the 19th century. Didn't you know that?


Matthew Ellard wrote: Err no David, the human ribs, hip bones sticking out of the human ash are the ones the Nazis failed to dig up and burn when the Nazis were destroying the evidence of their crime before the Red Army advanced to Treblinka.

David wrote: :roll: :roll: So you are claiming that the unburnt bones in a
cremation pit but somehow didn't burn? Or do you admit that the evidence was tampered with.

I never said it was a "cremation pit". You made that up when attempting to tamper with my quotes. It is a dumping pit for ash and dead body parts when the Nazis ran out of time hiding the evidence when the Red Army advanced through Poland. (Nice attempt at tampering by faking my quotes David!").


Matthew Ellard wrote: Well what can I say? You have now run away from every question I have asked you. I did enjoy your comical theory that Treblinka inmates were sent to scour the Polish countryside for unexploded Soviet munitions and returned to camp to use a russian explosive separation device invented in 1999. You zany revisionist you!


Matthew Ellard wrote: Shall we try again?

David wrote: How about trying again... at reading what I wrote. metal and
explosives were salvaged in other German camps. Inmates were cheap labor.
The UXB were obviously brought to the camp. Why?

1) Treblinka, in rural Poland, had no lathes, power, smelter, pouring cranes, metal presses or slag heaps as found at industrial camps in Germany.
2) You made up a story about soviet munitions being reprocessed at Treblinka on the spot and you can't find any link, quote or back up this hilarious claim.
3) The soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.


( Why David is a complete idiot. In your fantasy invention you have the Germans forcing inmates at Treblinka to collect "Soviet munitions for reprocessing". However when the Russians come you believe the Germans destroyed the camp, the train station, sert up a farm BUT LEFT THE REPROCESSED MUNITIONS FOR THE RUSSIANS TO RECAPTURE. I mean as idiots go You are NUMBER ONE!

Shall we try yet again?

1) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions? (YES/NO?)

( So far David refuses to answer this very simple question)

2) Can you quote or link ANYONE (including looney holocaust deniers) who say the peasants were looking for gold COINS ( YES/NO?)

[color=#BF0080]( So far David refuses to answer this very simple question)



David wrote: Matthews, you truly are a disconnected goofball.
I happen to have a few Polish Gold coins. For Polish gold coins from the 1920's See: http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/poland.html

Zloty means "gold" in Polish In 1924, coins were introduced in denominations of 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50 groszy.. The lowest three denominations were first minted in brass, then in bronze. The 10, 20 and 50 groszy were in nickel, with the higher denominations in silver. ..... During the German occupation of World War II, 1, 5, 10 and 20 groszy coins were issued (dated 1923) in zinc and 50 groszy (dated 1938) in nickel plated iron or iron.

What is the date of the coin you are holding?
What is the text on the head and reverse of the coin you are holding ( di it enter circulation or was it from a treasury issue?
What is its zyloty amount?

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:56 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: A new book by the controversial historian and sociologist Jan Tomasz Gross describes how Polish gold-diggers robbed Jewish corpses in the area of the Treblinka Nazi death camp immediately following WW II.
http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382


Quotes from Link
“The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked"

"this haunting photograph in fact depicts a group of peasants-"diggers" atop a mountain of ashes at Treblinka, where some 800,000 Jews were gassed and cremated" ( I have already mentioned this photo David three times)

"the crops scattered in front of the group are skulls and bones".

Excellent! You now agree that the Polish peasants dug for gold, found body parts and that the article does not mention gold coins once. Therefore you acknowledge you lied about gold coins and you lied about there being no body parts.


David wrote: Lukaszkiewicz is specific. Bombs...not your artillery shells. 15 foot deep craters.

Matthew Ellard wrote: You idiot. Lukaszkiewicz is Polish and didn't use either english word in his Polish report. He used the word "DETONOWANIE" amd "BOMBA". Didn't you know the Polish report was in Polish? tsk tsk tsk.....not the smartest holocaust denier are you?

David wrote: Gee, Matthew, what do you think bomba means in English?

"Explosive device". PRZEWIEZIONY DROGĄ BOMBA is Polish for "a bomb" dropped from a plane. "Bombe" is a French Napolenic word for "loud noise" adopted by England in the 19th century. Didn't you know that?
Matthew, the Bombas blew 15 foot deep
craters in the earth...




Matthew Ellard wrote: Err no David, the human ribs, hip bones sticking out of the human ash are the ones the Nazis failed to dig up and burn when the Nazis were destroying the evidence of their crime before the Red Army advanced to Treblinka.

David wrote: :roll: :roll: So you are claiming that the unburnt bones in a
cremation pit but somehow didn't burn? Or do you admit that the evidence was tampered with.

I never said it was a "cremation pit". You made that up when attempting to tamper with my quotes. It is a dumping pit for ash and dead body parts when the Nazis ran out of time hiding the evidence when the Red Army advanced through Poland. (Nice attempt at tampering by faking my quotes David!").


??? What are you claiming? The ash was brought into the
camp and then bones were thrown in with it? The pictures shows the
few bones on top of what you claim is human ash.
Seems obvious that the Poles threw a few bones in the hole for
dramatic effect. Note the position of the bones lying on top of the
ground...or are you claiming the Germans left the bones on the
surface of the ground?

As to your "excuse" that the Germans ran out of time, the camp was closed down in August 1943.




Matthew Ellard wrote: Well what can I say? You have now run away from every question I have asked you. I did enjoy your comical theory that Treblinka inmates were sent to scour the Polish countryside for unexploded Soviet munitions and returned to camp to use a russian explosive separation device invented in 1999. You zany revisionist you!



Matthew Ellard wrote: Shall we try again?

David wrote: How about trying again... at reading what I wrote. metal and
explosives were salvaged in other German camps. Inmates were cheap labor.
The UXB were obviously brought to the camp. Why?

1) Treblinka, in rural Poland, had no lathes, power, smelter, pouring cranes, metal presses or slag heaps as found at industrial camps in Germany.
2) You made up a story about soviet munitions being reprocessed at Treblinka on the spot and you can't find any link, quote or back up this hilarious claim.
3) The soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.

Ahh! So your "explanation" is that
The soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.
ok, I can accept that.



( Why David is a complete idiot. In your fantasy invention you have the Germans forcing inmates at Treblinka to collect "Soviet munitions for reprocessing". However when the Russians come you believe the Germans destroyed the camp, the train station, sert up a farm BUT LEFT THE REPROCESSED MUNITIONS FOR THE RUSSIANS TO RECAPTURE. I mean as idiots go You are NUMBER ONE!
For a guy quick to accuse others of tampering with his quotes
you seem to do a fair amount of it yourself.
The Poles found bombs and bomb craters at Treblinka II. Why?
It is absurd to claim that Polish peasants had such a cache of bombs,
or looked for valuables by blowing 15 foot deep craters.
In fact, it is clear that, while the Germans destroy anything of use at the
camp, they left most common "evidence." The Soviets took pictures
of the fences, at least one building, the track, and roadway were left,
garbage pits. But, as you claim,
The soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left





Shall we try yet again?



David wrote: Matthews, you truly are a disconnected goofball.
I happen to have a few Polish Gold coins. For Polish gold coins from the 1920's See: http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/poland.html

Zloty means "gold" in Polish In 1924, coins were introduced in denominations of 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50 groszy.. The lowest three denominations were first minted in brass, then in bronze. The 10, 20 and 50 groszy were in nickel, with the higher denominations in silver. ..... During the German occupation of World War II, 1, 5, 10 and 20 groszy coins were issued (dated 1923) in zinc and 50 groszy (dated 1938) in nickel plated iron or iron.

What is the date of the coin you are holding?
What is the text on the head and reverse of the coin you are holding ( di it enter circulation or was it from a treasury issue?
What is its zyloty amount?

Why don't you look at the cite re Polish gold coins?
More to the point, why don't you admit that no one seems to have
have any gold, or valuables at Treblinka?
Then think how that effects your "explanation" of why there were
bombs found around the camp by Lukaszkiewicz.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Blacksamwell » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:00 am

David wrote:Seems obvious that the Poles threw a few bones in the hole for
dramatic effect.

What? Really?

How is it obvious that the Poles added bones to the scene?

What purpose would the Poles have to add human bones to the scene? Is it common for Poles of the period to have or acquire human remains for embellishing pictures of this sort? Is there a citation to show this is the case?

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:58 pm

Blacksamwell wrote:
David wrote:Seems obvious that the Poles threw a few bones in the hole for
dramatic effect.

What? Really?

How is it obvious that the Poles added bones to the scene?

What purpose would the Poles have to add human bones to the scene? Is it common for Poles of the period to have or acquire human remains for embellishing pictures of this sort? Is there a citation to show this is the case?



Hello Blacksamwell- Here is the picture being discussed.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... a_1945.jpg

It seems to me that the pelvis bone on the right side of the picture and
the large bones in the center are lying on top of the plants.
It also seems to me that the bones are lying ON TOP of the soil.
If they had actually been buried one would expect to see partially buried
bones and under the plants.

One also has to consider the condition of the bones. These bones all look clean.
To be a bit macbre, Where's the Beef? There is no meat on these bones.
The story is that these were the bodies of murdered people, just left.
What condition would such bodies be in if the Germans had "just forgotten"
them? (that is another annomoly).

Here is a picture of a mass grave found in Bosnia as a comparison.

http://dalje.com/en-world/croats-found- ... ave/212007

Further the human remains were found mixed with ashes. This implies the
that they were creamated or (for some reason) mixed with ashes.
It is unclear if the ashes are from burnt papers, clothes, garbage.
In any case, the bones should have shown some discoloration, staining,
or burning. None do, not even the little rib bone.

If you read the Lukaszkiewicz Report-
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html
it is clear that
No Bodies were found.

So, how to get a "Photo Op?"
The easist thing would be to create a "Symbolic Image."
As a Revisionist, I would call it a propaganda photo.

That the Poles created a series of Symbolic Images at various places
after the War is admitted.
The present Chimney at Crema I Auschwitz was re-created.
-quote-
The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened." -Quoting Van Pelt-

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitz ... tz08A.html


At Majdanek, we have the "flying saucer of Death"...a Symbolic monument
once claimed to be filled with Human Ashes.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland/ma ... nek06.html

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:06 pm

David wrote: Matthew, the Bombas blew 15 foot deep craters in the earth...

That's right David. That's what high explosive artillery shells do. What size hole did you think a 9.7kg high explosive shell would leave?

Matthew Ellard wrote: Err no David, the human ribs, hip bones sticking out of the human ash are the ones the Nazis failed to dig up and burn when the Nazis were destroying the evidence of their crime before the Red Army advanced to Treblinka.
David wrote: :roll: :roll: So you are claiming that the unburnt bones in a cremation pit but somehow didn't burn? Or do you admit that the evidence was tampered with.
Matthew Ellard wrote:I never said it was a "cremation pit". You made that up when attempting to tamper with my quotes. It is a dumping pit for ash and dead body parts when the Nazis ran out of time hiding the evidence when the Red Army advanced through Poland. (Nice attempt at tampering by faking my quotes David!").
David wrote: ??? What are you claiming? The ash was brought into the
camp and then bones were thrown in with it? The pictures shows the
few bones on top of what you claim is human ash.

The human ash was already in the camp from when the Germans burnt the bodies after digging them up to hide the evidence of mass executions. You already know this but you are pretending to forget.

David wrote: Seems obvious that the Poles threw a few bones in the hole for
dramatic effect. Note the position of the bones lying on top of the ground...or are you claiming the Germans left the bones on the surface of the ground?

Firstly there is more than one photograph of bones and human ash (which you already knew). Secondly the Germans ran out of time to recover 100% of all bodies for burning as the Red Army was heading towards Treblinka ( as you already knew). Thirdly the Polish peasants blew up burial areas looking for valuables and that is why we are looking at craters of mixed bone and human ash. ( which you already know)

David wrote: As to your "excuse" that the Germans ran out of time, the camp was closed down in August 1943.

On August 2, 1943, the prisoners in the work details rebelled. They seized small arms, sprayed kerosene on all the buildings and set them ablaze. In the confusion, a number of guards were killed but many more prisoners perished. Of 1,500 prisoners, about 600 managed to escape the camp, but only 40 are known to have survived until the end of the war. After the revolt, Treblinka ceased operation. Camp commander Kurt Franz recalled during his testimonies: "After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were undertaken. It was during that period that the original camp was levelled off and lupins were planted
Also not suprising after the Germans had just lost the battle of Kursk and 70% of their ostfront armour, with world headlines, from Moscow to London saying "The Tigers are burning". (Kursk ended the capacity of the German army to fight armoured battles on equal terms....ever heard of it?)

David wrote: The soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left............ ok, I can accept that.

I see. So you now have totally retracted your false statement that Treblinka was a camp used for ther reprocessing of soviet munitions. You now agree with the standard historical view that Poish peasants used IEDs to blow up the ground looking for valuables. Is this correct?

( Why David is a complete idiot. In your fantasy invention you have the Germans forcing inmates at Treblinka to collect "Soviet munitions for reprocessing". However when the Russians come you believe the Germans destroyed the camp, the train station, sert up a farm BUT LEFT THE REPROCESSED MUNITIONS FOR THE RUSSIANS TO RECAPTURE. I mean as idiots go You are NUMBER ONE!

David wrote: It is absurd to claim that Polish peasants had such a cache of bombs, or looked for valuables by blowing 15 foot deep craters.

I see, so no American dud shells have ever been used against them as IEDs in Afghanistan because it is "clearly absurb to David"? That Polish peasants can use dud Russian artillery shells to blow up holes in the permafrost at Treblinka is "clearly absurb to David". Yet somehow a week ago you were claiming untrained inmates in Treblinka were reprocessing soviet munitions with their bare hands. Which story are you running with today David? You seen quite "fluid" regarding your arguments

David wrote: In fact, it is clear that, while the Germans destroy anything of use at the camp, they left most common "evidence." The Soviets took pictures
of the fences, at least one building, the track, and roadway were left, garbage pits.

Yep and human bones and human ash that were also photographed. ( Are you pretending to forget this again?)

Shall we try yet again?

David. I directly acuse you of being a liar and a coward.

You are a liar because you made up a statement that Treblinka was a camp used to reprocess soviet munitions. Despite being asked 15 times you are unable to supply one quote, reference, citation or even a blog from a looney holocaust denier that supports your lie. You made it up.

You are a coward because a real person would acknowledge their lie so that the objective review of history could continue. Even a lying "revisionist" like David Irving has recanted based on further facts he has been presented. You simply make stuff up and refuse to back it up, which makes you scum in the eyes of historians.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:38 pm

David wrote:Seems obvious that the Poles threw a few bones in the hole for
dramatic effect.
Blacksamwell wrote: What? Really?
How is it obvious that the Poles added bones to the scene?

What purpose would the Poles have to add human bones to the scene? Is it common for Poles of the period to have or acquire human remains for embellishing pictures of this sort? Is there a citation to show this is the case?

David wrote: Hello Blacksamwell- Here is the picture being discussed.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... a_1945.jpg

It seems to me ........


Blacksamwell can respond to your reply as it is his question. Shall we offer him some other photos and images from Treblinka for his consideration? ( yeah....why not....)

http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/1/Treblinka8.gif
So David, can you mark with an "X" where the munitions reprocessing plant at Treblika was in your fantasy? ( You made this story up. Did you bother checking your lie first?)

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/wp-conten ... blinka.jpg
Gosh, according to David the Polish must have had a lot of bones to fake photo evidence of bones at Treblinka .

http://www.zwoje-scrolls.com/shoah/o8.jpg
Here are David's "happy workers" arriving at Treblinka ready for a good days work reprocessing soviet munitions.

http://www.melrc.com/treblinka-grave-01.jpg
A rather large pile of human ash with dead bodies. Lucky those evil Poles also had dead bodies as well as bones to fake evidence of Treblinka according to David.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/wp-conten ... blinka.jpg
Gosh, according to David the Polish must have had a lot of bones to fake photo evidence of bones at Treblinka .



http://www.melrc.com/treblinka-grave-01.jpg
[color=#0000BF]A rather large pile of human ash with dead bodies. Lucky those evil Poles also had dead bodies as well as bones to fake evidence of Treblinka according to


Thank you for the photographs. If you look at the photographs you see the
bones of few people.

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/wp-conten ... blinka.jpg
seems to one or two people. One skull and four femur.
On the assumption that the Poles took pictures of their "best"
evidence it seems Obvious that the Poles did NOT have a lot of bones.

Look at http://www.melrc.com/treblinka-grave-01.jpg.
Again, I would guess 20 - 30 bodies at most.
So, if you delete the claim that every pile of dirt is "human ash"
it is clear that neither the Poles nor the Soviets found the remains
of many people.
http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/wp-conten ... blinka.jpg

So what is the goofy Believer tale?...like all Believers it is full of contradictions.
1. The Germans hid the camp
2. The Germans left bones lying around.

3. The Germans destroyed all bodies.
4. The Germans left uncremated bodies

Add to this the question of who brought bombs to the Treblnka II site.
I now agree with Matthews that:
The Soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:33 am

David wrote:Matthew- The sign of a Believer is that a Believer can scream two entirely contradictory claims within seconds.

Let us review your track record from the last two weeks

David a week ago wrote: Then you "explain" the total lack of any gold ever being found at Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise by claiming "the SS" took it all. Realize how stupid your "explanation" of finding hidden gold and jewels by blowing 15 foot deep holes was?

David three days ago wrote: quoting from Jan Gross “The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked"

Gee gosh....changed you story yet again hey David?

David a week ago wrote: Your explanation that peasants would get large bombs and then blow them up to find gold is a bad Polish joke. Either the Germans brought them in to be utilized or the Soviets brought them in to destroy evidence.

You tap dance so badly, Matthew or just have trouble remembering your own "explanations." You claimed that the bombs and craters
at Treblinka II were the result of peasants exploding their collection of
bombs off to find gold. The tale of brutish Poles rooting around for Jewish gold is standard Holocaust fodder. Your tale does not make any sense, Matthew.
Mine does

David a day ago wrote: I now agree with Matthew that:
The Soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.

You are one very confused holocaust denier. You are not agreeing with me. You are agreeing with the historians I have been quoting for three years. You were too busy making up stories as you are a neo-nazi holocaust denier.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:57 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Matthew- The sign of a Believer is that a Believer can scream two entirely contradictory claims within seconds.

Let us review your track record from the last two weeks

David a week ago wrote: Then you "explain" the total lack of any gold ever being found at Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise by claiming "the SS" took it all. Realize how stupid your "explanation" of finding hidden gold and jewels by blowing 15 foot deep holes was?

David three days ago wrote: quoting from Jan Gross “The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked"

Gee gosh....changed you story yet again hey David?

?? The basic fact is that no gold or precious stones have
even been found at Treblinka. That fact should make us wonder about the
Tale of greedy Polish blowing off bombs to find gold.



David a week ago wrote: Your explanation that peasants would get large bombs and then blow them up to find gold is a bad Polish joke. Either the Germans brought them in to be utilized or the Soviets brought them in to destroy evidence.

You tap dance so badly, Matthew or just have trouble remembering your own "explanations." You claimed that the bombs and craters
at Treblinka II were the result of peasants exploding their collection of
bombs off to find gold. The tale of brutish Poles rooting around for Jewish gold is standard Holocaust fodder. Your tale does not make any sense, Matthew.
Mine does

David a day ago wrote: I now agree with Matthew that:
The Soviet duds were brought into the camp after the Germans had left.

You are one very confused holocaust denier. You are not agreeing with me. You are agreeing with the historians I have been quoting for three years. You were too busy making up stories as you are a neo-nazi holocaust denier.

If I am confused, it is from trying to figure out a very odd tale.
- The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters -
Lukaszkiewicz blamed the blasts on stupid greedy peasants.
That makes no sense. In fact, "In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered."
So, if peasants were looking for things of value, one would expect them
to at least take the coins.
So, who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they thought
there might be graves?
And using Soviet munitions to do it?



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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:42 am

David wrote: The basic fact is that no gold or precious stones have
even been found at Treblinka. That fact should make us wonder about the
Tale of greedy Polish blowing off bombs to find gold.

The SS documents clearly state they removed 18kg to 36kg in gold from Treblinka every week.

David wrote: If I am confused, it is from trying to figure out a very odd tale.
- The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters

Artillery HE shells fragment when they explode. What did you think they did? What size crater did you think a 9.7kg HE explosive shell would leave?

David wrote: So, who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?

You have already quoted a book that clearly said Polish peasants did exactly this. Didn't you bother reading the book you quoted? (Don't bother answering that question. I already know the answer.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:48 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: The basic fact is that no gold or precious stones have
even been found at Treblinka. That fact should make us wonder about the
Tale of greedy Polish blowing off bombs to find gold.

The SS documents clearly state they removed 18kg to 36kg in gold from Treblinka every week.
Hello Matthew- You seem to have a hard time focusing on the interesting fact I raised, what happened at Treblinka after the
Germans left.



David wrote: If I am confused, it is from trying to figure out a very odd tale.
- The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters

Artillery HE shells fragment when they explode. What did you think they did? What size crater did you think a 9.7kg HE explosive shell would leave?

Hello Matthew- You seem to have a hard time focusing. Your
dubious "explanations" about what "bomba" means in Polish or claims of how deep a
hole an artillery shell would make avoids the obvious point that the "gold"
was supposed to be hidden in the first foot or two of earth.
Blowing a huge deep hole is a stupid explanation.



David wrote: So, who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?

You have already quoted a book that clearly said Polish peasants did exactly this. Didn't you bother reading the book you quoted? (Don't bother answering that question. I already know the answer.


Hello Matthew-
I understand that greedy stupid Polish peasants equipped with their own
cache of explosives looking for gold that wasn't there is the usual
"explanation" for the explosions. Sounds unlikely.

So the question I asked was,
who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they
thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?


Come on, Mathew, think.



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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:37 pm

David wrote: Hello Matthew-
I understand that greedy stupid Polish peasants equipped with their own
cache of explosives looking for gold that wasn't there is the usual
"explanation" for the explosions. Sounds unlikely.


So the question I asked was,
[b][i]who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they
thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?[/quote]

Graverobbers working in the permafrost. .

David wrote:Come on, Mathew, think.


I read the evidence. What I think does not matter. The evidence tells the story, not my imagination. I don't make things up to promote my subjective point of view.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:permafrost.



"permafrost?"

Permafrost at the Treblinka site?

That is your honest answer?

Matthew Ellard wrote:I read the evidence. What I think does not matter. The evidence tells the story, not my imagination. I don't make things up to promote my subjective point of view.


Of course what you think matters, Matthew.
And What happened at the Treblinka site after August 1944
is interesting.
And of course you make things up to promote your subjective
point of view...like the thick layer of permafrost that grips eastern Poland!

What the evidence is and what the Story is can be quite different.


Let's look at another piece of evidence, or at least a statement
Lukaszkiewicz made.
"The Examining Judge of Siedlce, on November 13, 1945, rules in consideration of the fact that with great probability no mass graves are any longer to be found on the grounds of the former camp today,-

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

Seems Lukaszkiewicz couldn't find any mass graves because they had
all been blown up. This also explains the bits and pieces of people
spread around the surface.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:33 pm

David wrote: So the question I asked was,
who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they
thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?


This is not the question you asked. You made up a complete fabrication about soviet munitions being reprocessed at Treblinka. I destroyed your fabrication. You are now expressing personal disbelief at the real history. You then edited my quote. I have returned my quote in full.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Graverobbers working in the permafrost.

David wrote: "permafrost?" Permafrost at the Treblinka site? That is your honest answer?

OK David, Grave robbers working in "cold ground". ( The grave robbing was going on for more than six months. I don't know the exact dates they used ex-soviet IEDs. They didn't keep a diary for me.

David wrote: And of course you make things up to promote your subjective
point of view...like the thick layer of permafrost that grips eastern Poland!

Is that it? Is that all you have? You made up a string of complete fabrications from the first post...
1) Soviet munitions were being reprocessed ast Treblinka (complete crap)
2) Treblinka II was a camp of 5,000 people (complete crap)
3) Treblinka was a transit camp ( complete crap)
4) Lukaszkiewicz specifically said bombs ( wrong language. He is Polish)



David wrote: Let's look at another piece of evidence, or at least a statement
Lukaszkiewicz made.

( I have put the whole quote together for you. You edited out the part of this sentence where Lukaszkiewicz is explaining why he is closing the investigation. That was a pathetic attempt at quoting out of context David, even for you)
"The Examining Judge of Siedlce, on November 13, 1945, rules in consideration of the fact that with great probability no mass graves are any longer to be found on the grounds of the former camp today, as is to be concluded from the witness testimonies examined so far and from the results of the works carried out at the site, and in consideration of the oncoming autumn, the present rainfall and the necessity of a rapid conclusion of the judicial preliminary investigations, in view of all these facts to stop the work on the territory of the former death camp Treblinka.,-[/quote]
AND
Lukaszkiewicz summarized the investigations carried out a month earlier at that location as follows:210
"During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned, all the more so since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time. The ground of the camp was ploughed and sown. Ukrainians were settled there, who fled before the arrival of the Red Army


David wrote:Seems Lukaszkiewicz couldn't find any mass graves because they had all been blown up.

Aparty from the ones he found ( You idiot)
By means of expansion of the excavation we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit. It has sloping walls, and the bottom measures about 1.5 meters [sic!]. The pit was presumably excavated with an excavator. During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew

With the assistance of 30 workers employed for roadwork, the opening of a pit was begun – a site where refuse was deposited in the northeastern section of the camp. In this location, as the workers from the nearby hamlets explained, a very large number of documents were found up till now. Work was begun at this location where the people [of that area] had dug a three-meter-deep pit in a search for gold

its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay.

David wrote: This also explains the bits and pieces of people spread around the surface.
Yes body parts at mass execution sites do tend to spread out after explosives are used.

So David.....what is you current crap understanding about Treblinka from your neo-nazi holocaust denying point of view? Are you still fabricating that is was only a transit camp? Are you still fabricating that 5,000 people worked there? Are you still fabricating there was no mass executions took place at Treblinka? Are you still saying the British Hofle telegram, Polish Justice Lukaszkiewicz and German SS documents are a Russian lie? Just say what you current theory is.... I need a good laugh.
.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:05 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: So the question I asked was,
who would be blowing 5 meter deep holes over where they
thought there might be graves? And using Soviet munitions to do it?



Matthew Ellard wrote:Graverobbers working in the permafrost.

David wrote: "permafrost?" Permafrost at the Treblinka site? That is your honest answer?

OK David, Grave robbers working in "cold ground". ( The grave robbing was going on for more than six months. I don't know the exact dates they used ex-soviet IEDs. They didn't keep a diary for me.
.





cold ground? What is that supposed to mean?
Why do you claim that the "grave robbing" was going on for six months?
As we all know, there has never been any gold or valuables found at
Treblinka...are you claiming that it took the Poles six months of digging to figure
out that there was nothing to dig for?
And you talk of "grave robbing."
Don't you Believers claim that the there were no graves....just ashes?
Are you claiming that there is gold mixed in with the ashes?


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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:22 pm

David wrote: Treblinka...are you claiming that it took the Poles six months of digging to figure out that there was nothing to dig for?
I am not claiming that the Polish peasants were only looking for gold. ( Read the report again). Nor did I interview every peasant who went there to see what they took.

David wrote: And you talk of "grave robbing." Don't you Believers claim that the there were no graves....just ashes?.

The Nazis, who destroyed all evidence of mass executions at Treblinka did not put up a sign in Polish "Most dead bodies have been cremated to hide evidence" when they left the camp ( you idiot) and if you bothered to look at the photos of the peasants at Treblinka you would have noticed they are standing infront of skeletons which they had dug up (but you don't look at evidence do you?).

Now my ignorant little holocaust denier......tell me.....what is your current view about Treblinka? Do you agree with conventional historians and "recanting" holocaust deniers like David Irving that Treblinka was indeed a death camp and that a minimum of 713,555 people were executed there before 30Dec42.

Please supply evidence for your view if it differs from the conventional view.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: Treblinka...are you claiming that it took the Poles six months of digging to figure out that there was nothing to dig for?
I am not claiming that the Polish peasants were only looking for gold. ( Read the report again). [snip drivel]
What else do you claim they were looking for?

David wrote: And you talk of "grave robbing." Don't you Believers claim that the there were no graves....just ashes?.

The Nazis, who destroyed all evidence of mass executions at Treblinka did not put up a sign in Polish "Most dead bodies have been cremated to hide evidence" when they left the camp ( you idiot) and if you bothered to look at the photos of the peasants at Treblinka you would have noticed they are standing infront of skeletons which they had dug up (but you don't look at evidence do you?).

Matthew, it was YOU who came up with the
excuse of "grave robbing." I just happen to have remembered your
earlier claim that all the bodies had been cremated.
So, why would anyone expect to find anything of value in the ashes?

Now you come up with the picture of the bones of 1 - 20 people.
Same question, why would anyone bring explosives in and spend
six months to blow up some bones and ashes?
As I have said, you Believers are capable of absurd contradictions mouthed
within seconds...you claim that the explosions were part of a 6 month
gold hunting expedition, next you claim that all the bodies were turned to
ashes, next you claim that the Germans took all the gold.
Now you are claiming the stupid (but well armed) peasants were
really looking for bones!



Now my ignorant little holocaust denier......tell me.....what is your current view about Treblinka? Do you agree with conventional historians and "recanting" holocaust deniers like David Irving that Treblinka was indeed a death camp and that a minimum of 713,555 people were executed there before 30Dec42.

Please supply evidence for your view if it differs from the conventional view.


My current view is that you Believers have a lot of wacked out contradictory tales.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I am not claiming that the Polish peasants were only looking for gold. ( Read the report again).

David wrote: What else do you claim they were looking for?

Gosh David...didn't you read the two articles you actually linked to? That was pretty stupid of you wasn't it?
“The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked" \
http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382

a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property."
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

David wrote: Matthew, it was YOU who came up with the excuse of "grave robbing." I just happen to have remembered your earlier claim that all the bodies had been cremated. So, why would anyone expect to find anything of value in the ashes?

I have always stated that the Nazis dug up and burned the bodies when they were hiding the evidence and were not able to burn 100% of the bodies. They ran out of time. You are pretending to forget this yet again as you are a liar and a holocaust denier.


Matthew Ellard wrote:Now my ignorant little holocaust denier......tell me.....what is your current view about Treblinka? Do you agree with conventional historians and "recanting" holocaust deniers like David Irving that Treblinka was indeed a death camp and that a minimum of 713,555 people were executed there before 30Dec42.

Please supply evidence for your view if it differs from the conventional view.

David wrote: My current view is that you Believers have a lot of wacked out contradictory tales.

So...in other words, you can't even string together a holocaust deniers theory about Treblinka. Well that makes you the most pathetic holocaust denier on the planet out of the remaining 100 or so elderly holocaust deniers left. No wonder the cult died out. Nick Terry was "spot on" when he said the "juniour" holocaust deniers were incapable of maintaining the cult as they were too stupid, so the cult fell apart ....and it did!

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:45 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: I am not claiming that the Polish peasants were only looking for gold. ( Read the report again).

David wrote: What else do you claim they were looking for?

Gosh David...didn't you read the two articles you actually linked to? That was pretty stupid of you wasn't it?
“The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked" \
http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382

And why would the gold and precious stones be
in the ash pile? According to your Beliefs, the victims were stripped,
killed, searched, burnt in pyres and then the ashes dumped in
the pits. About zero chance of anything of value ending up in the
pit. And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!

The total lack of any gold ever being found at
Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise
confirms the obvious....your "explanation" is absurd.


a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property."
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

Of course...but how does a Believer "explain" all the
detritus left by the Germans?



David wrote: Matthew, it was YOU who came up with the excuse of "grave robbing." I just happen to have remembered your earlier claim that all the bodies had been cremated. So, why would anyone expect to find anything of value in the ashes?

I have always stated that the Nazis dug up and burned the bodies when they were hiding the evidence and were not able to burn 100% of the bodies. They ran out of time. You are pretending to forget this yet again as you are a liar and a holocaust denier.
"Ran out of time?" Oh I see, the Germans cremated
798,500 bodies but just didn't have time in that last year to cremate those
last 500 bodies. :roll: :roll: Of course your "explanation" makes as much sense
as all your tapdancing does , Matthew.




Matthew Ellard wrote:Now my ignorant little holocaust denier......tell me.....what is your current view about Treblinka? Do you agree with conventional historians and "recanting" holocaust deniers like David Irving that Treblinka was indeed a death camp and that a minimum of 713,555 people were executed there before 30Dec42.

Please supply evidence for your view if it differs from the conventional view.

David wrote: My current view is that you Believers have a lot of wacked out contradictory tales.

So...in other words, you can't even string together a holocaust deniers theory about Treblinka. [snip drivel]



Noticing that a tale is stupid and contradictory is one thing.
Presenting an accurate history is something else.

It is clear that the Believer tale about the state of Treblinka camp in August 1944 is wrong.
The Germans left fences, large garbage pits, "aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc." at least one building, roads, rail spur, building foundations, several hundred bodies, some partially cremated and some not, in several small pits.

As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves. the documents and artifacts
Lukaszkiewicz found have seemed to have been reburied or "forgotten."
The evidence has all been covered with lots of monuments.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:56 am

David, I have a new suggestion. Why don't you simply stop posting your holocaust denial rubbish here. You don't have anything new to say, you don't look at evidence and you make stuff up to hide your weak knowledge of history.

Try CODOH. It's full of holocaust deniers ( well... five guys.....four who can string a sentence together....three who can sort of spell) but Bradley Smith is there and although Bradley won't answer your question about Krege your'e still friends right?

Try JREF It's full of historians and they love talking to holocaust deniers like "Saggy", "9/11 Investigator", "revisionist" "Dogzilla". You can even cross swords with Dr Nick Terry again. I admit your MO of telling fibs won't work there, but it doesn't work here either. You may need to improve your skills by reading some actual history and your own links.

Even better "Give up" What's the point? Has anyone ever agreed with your comments in the entire time you have ever posted here? No....they haven't, have they? Holocaust denial is a very dead cult and really belongs in cult history books with the flat earth society, the "children of god", Lamarckism, etc.

( May I also say that you have become very boring with your "anti-Churchill" raves and the inevitable "Fakland road" comment when you lose an argument)

Balshy Spasiba!

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:32 am

David wrote: And why would the gold and precious stones be
in the ash pile? According to your Beliefs, the victims were stripped,
killed, searched, burnt in pyres and then the ashes dumped in
the pits.


WRONG. The bodies were buried. Then Germany started to lose the war. So they dug the bodies up and burnt them to hide the evidence. Don't you read basic history!

David wrote: And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!

You sift the soil using a sifter to find objects. Try watching an episode of Time Team to see this being done. I've done it.

David wrote: The total lack of any gold ever being found at Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise confirms the obvious....your "explanation" is absurd.

You moron. It is not my explanation. It is the conventional history. You even posted to a link that said the same thing but your are pretending you have forgotten. Are you going senile? Read what you posted a week ago.......
David wrote: A new book by the controversial historian and sociologist Jan Tomasz Gross describes how Polish gold-diggers robbed Jewish corpses in the area of the Treblinka Nazi death camp immediately following WW II.http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382

Jan Tomasz Gross wrote: “The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked" .......................this haunting photograph in fact depicts a group of peasants-"diggers" atop a mountain of ashes at Treblinka, where some 800,000 Jews were gassed and cremated" ...

David wrote: ] Of course...but how does a Believer "explain" all the
detritus left by the Germans?

The germans didn't clear up Treblinka in time. They didn't know the Russians were going to win until 1943. I have said this for three years. So does every other conventional historian.

David wrote: "Ran out of time?" Oh I see, the Germans cremated
798,500 bodies but just didn't have time in that last year to cremate those
last 500 bodies.
That's right David, they didn't dig up all the bodies and left late executions and other older bodies in ash pits. But where did you get that 500 bodies figure? Did you make it up?

David wrote: Noticing that a tale is stupid and contradictory is one thing. Presenting an accurate history is something else.

State what the contradictions are and your evidence that a contradiction exists. ( You can't, can you? Poor little holocaust denier)

David wrote: As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves.

No, as I informed you. Your lie was that Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions" but I destroyed your lie with great ease. I have provided you a link to a photo of the Polish peasants doing this actual task but you refused to look at the photo because you don't like evidence.

Now go away and go burn a cross somewhere else you silly neo-nazi

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:36 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: And why would the gold and precious stones be
in the ash pile? According to your Beliefs, the victims were stripped,
killed, searched, burnt in pyres and then the ashes dumped in
the pits.


WRONG. The bodies were buried. Then Germany started to lose the war. So they dug the bodies up and burnt them to hide the evidence. Don't you read basic history!
So? Based on your tale, nothing could have gotten past
the Germans (and obviously no gold ever has been found) But then you go claim dumb greedy peasants spent six months blowing off bombs trying to find something not there.


David wrote: And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!

You sift the soil using a sifter to find objects. Try watching an episode of Time Team to see this being done. I've done it.

A "soil sifter?" That would make sense, Matthew.
The trouble for you is that "soil sifters" are at the other end of the spectrum
from blowing 15 foot craters in the soil. Maybe you should make up
another "explanation?"


David wrote: The total lack of any gold ever being found at Treblinka during excavations for the monument or otherwise confirms the obvious....your "explanation" is absurd.

You moron. It is not my explanation. It is the conventional history. You even posted to a link that said the same thing but your are pretending you have forgotten. Are you going senile? Read what you posted a week ago.......
David wrote: A new book by the controversial historian and sociologist Jan Tomasz Gross describes how Polish gold-diggers robbed Jewish corpses in the area of the Treblinka Nazi death camp immediately following WW II.http://www.thenews.pl/international/?id=146382

Jan Tomasz Gross wrote: “The Polish diggers are hoping to find gold and precious stones that Nazi executioners may have overlooked" .......................this haunting photograph in fact depicts a group of peasants-"diggers" atop a mountain of ashes at Treblinka, where some 800,000 Jews were gassed and cremated" ...

Gross seems as stupid as you, Matthew.
Fun as watching you squirm around babbling about "permifrost" and
"soil sifters" is :P :P ... the issue is WHAT DID THE SOVIETS FIND WHEN
THEY ARRIVED AT TREBLINKA IN SUMMER 1944?



David wrote: ] Of course...but how does a Believer "explain" all the
detritus left by the Germans?

The germans didn't clear up Treblinka in time. They didn't know the Russians were going to win until 1943. I have said this for three years. So does every other conventional historian.

Yes, the Germans didn't clear up Treblinka in time. In fact,
the Germans left significant amounts of paper records in the pits.
Matthew, are you claiming that the paper records found by Lukaszkiewicz in November 1945 could not have been burned by the Germans?



David wrote: "Ran out of time?" Oh I see, the Germans cremated
798,500 bodies but just didn't have time in that last year to cremate those
last 500 bodies.
That's right David, they didn't dig up all the bodies and left late executions and other older bodies in ash pits. But where did you get that 500 bodies figure? Did you make it up?
Yes, it is a guess as to the number of bodies the
Soviets actually found. It is probably too high.
Which brings us back to the real issue,
How many bodies do you think the Soviets found?




David wrote: Noticing that a tale is stupid and contradictory is one thing. Presenting an accurate history is something else.

State what the contradictions are and your evidence that a contradiction exists. ( You can't, can you? Poor little holocaust denier)

How about your claim that the Germans cremated 798,000
bodies and the fact that they didn't even cremate the paper records?


David wrote: As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves.

[snip drivel]

By 1944, Treblinka was the focus of Allied propaganda.
The Soviets arrived at the camp hoping to get a story. In fact, they found
nothing more than an abandoned camp...garbage, fences, a road, some small graves, foundations, and the entire Bakery building stripped of lumber.
All of that evidence and the entire site has been destroyed and
covered with monuments.


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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:44 am

David wrote: According to your Beliefs, the victims were stripped, killed, searched, burnt in pyres and then the ashes dumped in the pits.

Matthew Ellard wrote: WRONG. The bodies were buried. Then Germany started to lose the war. So they dug the bodies up and burnt them to hide the evidence. Don't you read basic history!

David wrote: So? Based on your tale, nothing could have gotten past
the Germans (and obviously no gold ever has been found) But then you go claim dumb greedy peasants spent six months blowing off bombs trying to find something not there.

1) It's not my tale. It is conventional history. You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with conventional history.
2) I have never said "nothing could get past the germans", you moron. I have always said the opposite. The Germans failed to burn all the bodies when it came to dig them up and burn them to hide the evidence. Stop making things up!
3) Not only did the peasants do this but there is a photo of them doing this WHICH YOU LINKED TO. You are pretending to have forgotten yet again. Are you really that senile? .



David wrote: And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!
]
Matthew Ellard wrote: You sift the soil using a sifter to find objects. Try watching an episode of Time Team to see this being done. I've done it.
David wrote: A "soil sifter?" That would make sense, Matthew.
The trouble for you is that "soil sifters" are at the other end of the spectrum
from blowing 15 foot craters in the soil. Maybe you should make up
another "explanation?"

You complete moron! the Polish peasant in the photo is holding a sifter!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/grav ... wT_3_1.jpg

David wrote: In fact, the Germans left significant amounts of paper records in the pits. Matthew, are you claiming that the paper records found by Lukaszkiewicz in November 1945 could not have been burned by the Germans?

1) So you now agree there were burial pits...good boy. Have a dog biscuit.
2) The Germans left buckets of evidence because they ran out of time. They failed to burn all the bodies, so why would they not also fail to burn all the passports and travel papers? You are simply "hand waving" the evidence because you don't believe in evidence. ( Gosh David, if you claim Treblinka was only a transit camp, why were there passports and travel papers destroyed there? Obviously Treblinka wasn't a transit camp was it? )


David wrote: As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves.

Matthew Ellard wrote: No, as I informed you. Your lie was that "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions" but I destroyed your lie with great ease


David wrote: By 1944, Treblinka was the focus of Allied propaganda.
The Soviets arrived at the camp hoping to get a story.

You mean the glorious Red Army was beating back the pathetic German forces in the greatest conflict ever on earth and found evidence of a death camp where the Germans had murdered at least 713,555 human beings for no reason.
David wrote: In fact, they found nothing more than an abandoned camp...garbage, fences, a road, some small graves, foundations, and the entire Bakery building stripped of lumber. All of that evidence and the entire site has been destroyed and
covered with monuments.

1) So 7 metre deep burial pits are small graves are they?
2) You forgot to mention the Russian and Polish passports and travel papers found there, that you mentioned two paragraphs ago...( you are are not very good at lying are you?)
3) You are "denying" all the other British, Polish and German evidence because you are a holocaust denier. You are pretending that a conspiracy existed between the British, Poles, Germans and Russians, that has continued to 2001 (Hofle Telegram) to fake evidence and trick holocaust deniers. How insane are you?

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: According to your Beliefs, the victims were stripped, killed, searched, burnt in pyres and then the ashes dumped in the pits.

Matthew Ellard wrote: WRONG. The bodies were buried. Then Germany started to lose the war. So they dug the bodies up and burnt them to hide the evidence. Don't you read basic history!

David wrote: So? Based on your tale, nothing could have gotten past
the Germans (and obviously no gold ever has been found) But then you go claim dumb greedy peasants spent six months blowing off bombs trying to find something not there.

1) It's not my tale. It is conventional history. You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with conventional history.
[color=#FF0000]I am commenting on a Story riddled with anomolies


2) I have never said "nothing could get past the germans", you moron. I have always said the opposite. The Germans failed to burn all the bodies when it came to dig them up and burn them to hide the evidence. Stop making things up!
Are you the same Believer Matthews who explained the
lack of gold by writing ") "The SS took the gold at the time of execution"


3) Not only did the peasants do this but there is a photo of them doing this WHICH YOU LINKED TO. You are pretending to have forgotten yet again. Are you really that senile? .[/color]
Shifter makes sense. Bomb blasts don't
You need to deal with bomb craters, Matthew



David wrote: And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!
]
Matthew Ellard wrote: You sift the soil using a sifter to find objects. Try watching an episode of Time Team to see this being done. I've done it.
David wrote: A "soil sifter?" That would make sense, Matthew.
The trouble for you is that "soil sifters" are at the other end of the spectrum
from blowing 15 foot craters in the soil. Maybe you should make up
another "explanation?"

You complete moron! the Polish peasant in the photo is holding a sifter!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/grav ... wT_3_1.jpg

Can you please deal with the bomb craters and stop
babbling about "shifters?" Thank you.


David wrote: In fact, the Germans left significant amounts of paper records in the pits. Matthew, are you claiming that the paper records found by Lukaszkiewicz in November 1945 could not have been burned by the Germans?

1) So you now agree there were burial pits...good boy. Have a dog biscuit.
[color=#FF0000]??? The papers were found in a pit without bodies, Matthew.
Explain it within the context of your idiotic claim that the Germans burnt all
the evidence they could. Thank you.


2) The Germans left buckets of evidence because they ran out of time. They failed to burn all the bodies, so why would they not also fail to burn all the passports and travel papers? You are simply "hand waving" the evidence because you don't believe in evidence. ( Gosh David, if you claim Treblinka was only a transit camp, why were there passports and travel papers destroyed there? Obviously Treblinka wasn't a transit camp was it? ) [/color]

What are you babbling about? The important question
is the state of the Treblinka camps when the Soviets showed up.
A secondary questions is what happened to all the evidence that was
there when the Soviets showed up.
The standard Believer "explanation" is that greedy, stupid peasants
blew it up looking for gold.



David wrote: As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves.

Matthew Ellard wrote: No, as I informed you. Your lie was that "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions" but I destroyed your lie with great ease


David wrote: By 1944, Treblinka was the focus of Allied propaganda.
The Soviets arrived at the camp hoping to get a story.

You mean the glorious Red Army was beating back the pathetic German forces in the greatest conflict ever on earth and found evidence of a death camp where the Germans had murdered at least 713,555 human beings for no reason.
Your ranting, Matthew, and avoiding the point that
Treblinka was the focus of Allied propaganda.
Guess what, Matthew. Today there is nothing left of Treblinka II.
In November 1945 there was a huge amount of primary evidence visible.
In August 1944 there was a larger amount of primary evidence visible.
Tell us, Matthew, who destroyed the evidence on the site even as late
as the Polish investigation in November 1945?



David wrote: In fact, they found nothing more than an abandoned camp...garbage, fences, a road, some small graves, foundations, and the entire Bakery building stripped of lumber. All of that evidence and the entire site has been destroyed and
covered with monuments.

1) So 7 metre deep burial pits are small graves are they?
[color=#FF0000]Compared to your figure of 713,555, yes.


2) You forgot to mention the Russian and Polish passports and travel papers found there, that you mentioned two paragraphs ago...( you are are not very good at lying are you?)
No, I am not good at lying, so I don't.
So what is your point about the passports? Are you going to claim that 713,555 pastports were in the hole? The "Report" left out any actual number.
An odd ommission.


3) You are "denying" all the other British, Polish and German evidence because you are a holocaust denier. You are pretending that a conspiracy existed between the British, Poles, Germans and Russians, that has continued to 2001 (Hofle Telegram) to fake evidence and trick holocaust deniers. How insane are you? [/color]


Getting a little giddy there, Matthew.
I am commenting on the state of Treblinka when the Soviets arrived
and when the Poles did their investigation. Fortunately, some information
has leaked through which allows us insight as to what was left
by the Germans.
The Germans seemed to have left plenty of evidence, some grusome,
some normal, but none of it consistent with your Tale of 980,000 dead.
I am also commenting that whatever evidence the Germans left has
been destroyed some by Soviet explosives, some by whomever built
the Monuments.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:54 am

David wrote: I am commenting on a Story riddled with anomolies.

What anomolies? You haven't listed any yet.

Matthew Ellard wrote: 2) I have never said "nothing could get past the germans", you moron. I have always said the opposite. The Germans failed to burn all the bodies when it came to dig them up and burn them to hide the evidence. Stop making things up!

David wrote: Are you the same Believer Matthews who explained the
lack of gold by writing ") "The SS took the gold at the time of execution"

Not only did I say this but so do the SS documents you moron They shipped 18kg to 36kg of gold each week from Treblinka. Do you want the link again?

David wrote: You need to deal with bomb craters, Matthew

I already have. I destroyed your lie that Treblinka was a reprocessing camp for Soviet munitions, remember? The Polish peasants used soviet duds to dig up large amounts of soil to search for gold. Shall we actually read the link you posted together....
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html


David wrote: And blowing off explosives wouldn't be the way to recover it!
Matthew Ellard wrote: You sift the soil using a sifter to find objects. .......You complete moron! the Polish peasant in the photo is holding a sifter!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/grave%20robbers%20polish%20treblinka/cortagravatas/Treblinka/GzwT_3_1.jpg
David wrote:Can you please deal with the bomb craters and stop babbling about "shifters?"
So you don't like the hard photographic evidence of sifters being used and you don't like Łukaszkiewicz's evidence about 6 metre deep bomb craters? That's your problem understanding evidence, not mine. You can't string a sentence together saying what you believe happened since I caught you lying about Treblinka being a munitions reprocessing camp. You are crying like a little girl but unable to say what you think happened or produce any conflicting evidence. Suck eggs you stupid holocaust denier.

David wrote: In fact, the Germans left significant amounts of paper records in the pits. Matthew, are you claiming that the paper records found by Lukaszkiewicz in November 1945 could not have been burned by the Germans?

]
Matthew Ellard wrote: 1) So you now agree there were burial pits...good boy. Have a dog biscuit.
2) The Germans left buckets of evidence because they ran out of time. They failed to burn all the bodies, so why would they not also fail to burn all the passports and travel papers? You are simply "hand waving" the evidence because you don't believe in evidence. ( Gosh David, if you claim Treblinka was only a transit camp, why were there passports and travel papers destroyed there? Obviously Treblinka wasn't a transit camp was it? )

David wrote:The papers were found in a pit without bodies, Matthew.
Explain it within the context of your idiotic claim that the Germans burnt all
the evidence they could. Thank you.

That's right David. When the Polish peasants started digging they found body parts and documents where the Germans had first buried them. The Germans failed to burn all evidence as they ran out of time. How many times do I have to show you the photos and quote hard evidence? Are you confused because the Germans may have stripped the victims first ( As evidenced by the 315,000 overcoats, 26,000 children's apron, 264,000 pairs of shoes shipped from Treblinka as recorded in detail in SS documents) . Did you forget this document on purpose, like usual?

David wrote: The standard Believer "explanation" is that greedy, stupid peasants
blew it up looking for gold.
We call this conventional history backed by evidence. You, a holocaust denier made up an entire fabricated story, couldn't supply any evidence for your fabrication and look like a stupid lying holocaust denier....which you are.

David wrote: As you admit, sometime after the Germans left, someone came in and
blew Soviet bombs off over the graves.

Matthew Ellard wrote: No, as I informed you. Your lie was that "Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions" but I destroyed your lie with great ease



David wrote: In fact, they found nothing more than an abandoned camp...garbage, fences, a road, some small graves, foundations, and the entire Bakery building stripped of lumber. All of that evidence and the entire site has been destroyed and
covered with monuments.

Matthew Ellard wrote: 1) So 7 metre deep burial pits are small graves are they?

David wrote: Compared to your figure of 713,555, yes.

How many burial pits does Łukaszkiewicz investigate in his report David? Was that all the pits?

Matthew Ellard wrote: 2) You forgot to mention the Russian and Polish passports and travel papers found there, that you mentioned two paragraphs ago...( you are are not very good at lying are you?)

David wrote: No, I am not good at lying, so I don't.

You lied when you said Treblinka was a transit camp. You lied when you said Treblinka was a camp for reprocessing soviet munitions. You lie in all your posts.

David wrote: So what is your point about the passports? Are you going to claim that 713,555 pastports were in the hole? The "Report" left out any actual number.
An odd ommission.

You complete moron! In your previous lie you said Treblinka was a transit camp. Now if the Germans took travel papers, passports and clothing off people do you really think they were simply in transit. Do you think they got on the trains nude and with no documents for a happy holiday in Minsk at the Russian front? THEY WERE EXECUTED AT TREBLINKA.

Matthew Ellard wrote: 3) You are "denying" all the other British, Polish and German evidence because you are a holocaust denier. You are pretending that a conspiracy existed between the British, Poles, Germans and Russians, that has continued to 2001 (Hofle Telegram) to fake evidence and trick holocaust deniers. How insane are you?

David wrote: Getting a little giddy there, Matthew.

No David, I reminding you how stupid you are because you keep forgetting things on purpose.

David wrote: The Germans seemed to have left plenty of evidence, some grusome, some normal, but none of it consistent with your Tale of 980,000 dead.

1) What does the Hofle Telegram say David? ( David refuses to look at British evidence as it is soviet propaganda)
2) Where did the 315,000 jackets, detailed in SS documents come from David? (David refuses to look at German evidence as it is soviet propaganda)
3) Where did the 18kg to 36kg of gold from Treblinka detailed in SS documents come from David? (David refuses to look at German evidence as it is soviet propaganda)
4) What does Łukaszkiewicz say about rotting human tissue in mass burial pits?
(David refuses to look at Polish evidence as it is soviet propaganda)
5) What did the CO of Treblinka say about executions there?
(David refuses to look at German confessions as it is soviet propaganda)
(Gosh....lucky I didn't try use any Russian evidence......)


David, you are drunk again. You seem unable to state what you think happened or supply any conflicting evidence. Worse yet, you were unaware until this post that the bodies were buried before being dug up and burnt to hide the evidence. I don't think you have read any history about Treblinka at all. I think you are mking stuff up as you go to hide your ignorance.

The bodies were initially buried in large mass graves; in a later stage of the camp's operation, they were burned on open-air grids made of concrete pillars and railway tracks.................
Camp commander Kurt Franz recalled during his testimonies: "After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were undertaken. It was during that period that the original camp was levelled off and lupins were planted."[17] The camp had been badly damaged during the uprising, and the murder of the Polish Jews was also largely complete. It was decided to shoot the last of the Jewish prisoners and shut down the camp.

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Pyrrho, Is there some way of moderating this discussion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:08 am

Dear Pyrrho

David keeps going in loops, won't say what he thinks happened and ignores evidence. Would you consider moderating this sub-forum for a while so we can stop going around in loops? As an alternative, could I invite another member like Blacksamwell to become a "judge" agreed upon by myself and David? Is that within forum rules & ethics?

( David can pick the other member as "judge". Any member would be fine with me.)

Would I be better off just putting David back on "ignore" again and concentrating on the holocaust deniers at JREF?

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Re: Pyrrho, Is there some way of moderating this discussion?

Postby Blacksamwell » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:27 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:[...]As an alternative, could I invite another member like Blacksamwell to become a "judge" agreed upon by myself and David? Is that within forum rules & ethics?[...]

I'm happy to offer any assistance I can.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby HghrSymmetry » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:59 pm

I hereby present the prestigious 2011 W.F.A (Woo Fighter Award) to Mathew Ellard for his indefatigable resilience in combating various types of online nonsense*.
A warrior of uncommon valor.

A hardy congratulations!


:award:





*Including, but not limited to religious, conspiratorial, political, and pseudo scientific excrement.


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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:29 pm

Thank you Blacksamwell and HighSymmetry. Kind words and an offer to help is most welcome. Let us see what Pyrrho says and then make an offer to David for some form of moderation on the Treblinka discussion. (Or Pyrrho may suggest just using the ignore button which would also be sensible. )

What makes this matter slightly different is that better known holocaust deniers like David Irving have recanted on Treblinka and now agree it was a death camp. I'm suspicious that David makes stuff up because he simply can't find any holocaust deniers anymore to feed him answers concerning Treblinka.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby HghrSymmetry » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:43 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I'm suspicious that David makes stuff up because he simply can't find any holocaust deniers anymore to feed him answers concerning Treblinka.


Aye, when it goes to this extreme, seems the subject will go to any lengths to protect the belief. Evidence, facts, eyewitness testimony will apparently never be enough.

Surely some deniers have spoken to relatives of or even survivors of these camps. I have spoken to a survivor of Dachau. It wasn't that long ago...some survivors are still alive.

But again, this is not about facts and evidence, if it were, there would be no such thing as a holocaust denier.
This is about maintaining a pet belief system, not unlike a slobbering, foaming at the mouth, loud Sunday morning televangelist.

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:53 am

HghrSymmetry wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:I'm suspicious that David makes stuff up because he simply can't find any holocaust deniers anymore to feed him answers concerning Treblinka.


Aye, when it goes to this extreme, seems the subject will go to any lengths to protect the belief. Evidence, facts, eyewitness testimony will apparently never be enough.

Surely some deniers have spoken to relatives of or even survivors of these camps. I have spoken to a survivor of Dachau. It wasn't that long ago...some survivors are still alive.

But again, this is not about facts and evidence, if it were, there would be no such thing as a holocaust denier.
This is about maintaining a pet belief system, not unlike a slobbering, foaming at the mouth, loud Sunday morning televangelist.


Well the televangelist only believes in one disappearing body,
you guys believe in 6,000,000 disappearing bodies. :D

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby David » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:36 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I'm suspicious that David makes stuff up


Stuff like Lukaszkiewicz
statement that "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves?"

Or his statement, "since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time"
to compare with YOUR claim, "The Germans failed to burn all evidence as they ran out of time?"

Maybe HghrSymmetry will give you another award?


And of course the Soviets don't make stuff up...like claiming 1,400,000 were killed at
Majdanek! :roll: :roll:

Rather than go on with your conflicting tales of Polish peasants blasting
for gold, and Germans not being able to burn a pile of documents in a
year because of permafrost why don't we try to be constructive?

For a Revisionist, being constructive is gathering more and
better evidence.

I have usually thought that being constructive
for a Believer is passing harsher and harsher laws against
non-Belief. Let's see if I was wrong.

I would like to discuss what the Soviets found when they arrived
at Treblinka. It seems hard to even get the date of the arrival.
It seems harder to get any actual report, although I have
some photographs sent to me.


Alternatively, I would like to talk about the material evidence
Lukaszkiewicz found November 9 - 13 1945.

-In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered. At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found.-
Where are the "various kinds of containers" and coins now?
-and-
At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects

Very interesting. Where are they now?

During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American.

Documents?, a vague term. a personal identity card. Where are they?
Whose were they? What do they say?

Also-
During the course of the digging, broken pieces of all sorts of kitchen containers as well as a large number of rags were continually found. Aside from the coins discovered so far, Greek, Slovakian, and French ones were found, as well as documents in Hebrew and Polish and remnants of a Soviet passport.

More "Documents"

Then some interesting physical remains-
"The only things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the foundations of the camp’s domestic economics building and the site of the well. Here and there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains of barbed wire. There are also some sections of paved walks that remain.

A cellar?

Anyway, where is all the physical evidence now?

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Re: One of the grand myths of World War II Soviet propagand

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:05 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I'm suspicious that David makes stuff up because he simply can't find any holocaust deniers anymore to feed him answers concerning Treblinka

David wrote: Stuff like Lukaszkiewicz statement that "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves?" Or his statement, "since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time"
to compare with YOUR claim, "The Germans failed to burn all evidence as they ran out of time?"

1) Lukaszkiewicz found no mass graves as the bodies had been mostly burnt. Lukaszkiewicz found the burial pits. Quote" its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
Do I need to quote what he found in every burial pit he examined for you?

2) Kurt Franz left the camp in November 1943.
In Treblinka about thirty jews remained, among them two women, to finish the work there. They were kept during the night in two closed freight cars on the railway spur. On November the 17th the last transport carrying equipment from the camp departed. At the end of November Kurt Franz received order to destroy whatever yet remained at Treblinka and take his men to Sobibor. Before Franz and his men left the last prisoners were shot. Franz was in charge of the execution. .
(Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps by Yitzhak Arad /1999 University of Indiana Press) (You can read this book on the internet)
Kurt Franz recalled during his testimonies: "The gassings had stopped........ It was decided to shoot the last of the Jewish prisoners and shut down the camp. The Germans lost the battle of Kursk in July 1943 and were withdrawing from then on through western Russian and Poland. They destroyed the evidence of mass murders at Treblinka that mostly occured in late 1942 (Hofle Telegram) . They did not have time to locate all the bodies and thus we find hard evidence of both human ash and dead bodies.

David wrote: I have usually thought that being constructive ........... Let's see if I was wrong.

OK let us examine your current claim "Treblinka was a transit camp"
1) Please state any real evidence you may have that Treblinka was a transit camp.
2) State the destination (or destinations) of the 713,555 victims transported there in 1942 ( Hofle Telegram)
3) Explain why Treblinka was a transit camp when it had no food, no accommodation and no joining "eastern rail guage" to continue the journey
4) Explain why 315,000 mens overcoats, 146,000 pais of shoes, 36,000 childrens aprons etc and 18kg to 36kg of gold was sent back from Treblinka per SS documents if the victims were going on to Belarus.
5) Explain, Kurt Franz, the commanding officer's direct quote "Gassings had ceased (by August 1943) It was decided to shoot the last of the Jewish prisoners and shut down the camp

You will be unable to do this as you made up the statement that "Treblinka was a transit camp". Will will ignore this question as you are a coward.


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
David attempts to avoid backing up his own statement
David wrote: , I would like to talk about the material evidence. Where are the "various kinds of containers" and coins now?

Have you made an application to State Prosecutor of the District Court in Siedlce to discover this?

David wrote: Documents?, a vague term. a personal identity card. Where are they? Whose were they? What do they say?

Have you made an application to State Prosecutor of the District Court in Siedlce to discover this?

Try back up your own fundamental statement "Treblinka was a transit camp" first If you don't, it shows you are a lying holocaust denier and a coward whose words mean nothing, who knows nothing about Treblinka.


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