Have a Heart?

[Chester]

Hello All.  Have been reading here for quite some time and decided to contribute something I've never seen mentioned before.

The heat range of cremation can't destroy the human heart. The heart shrinks to the size of a small pea and turns rock-like.

A hint on verification. Find refractory/firebrick technicians who actually inspect, repair and rebuild crematories.

Thank you for reading.
Chester

[Blacksamwell]

A hint on verification. Find refractory/firebrick technicians who actually inspect, repair and rebuild crematories.

Wouldn't we want refractory/firebrick technicians who have some idea of biology and access to facilities capable of testing and identifying charred cardiac muscle?

I'd be a little suspicious if we're just talking about sweaty guys in coveralls pulling a pebble out of the ash and declaring it a heart.

What resources did you find when you searched for this topic?

[Chester]

Good points. To be more specific, we're talking about designers, various engineering fields, operators, fire science types, manufacturers of refractory materials, medical examiners and, yes, even "sweaty guys in coveralls pulling a pebble out of the ash"  asking what are these little rocks?

This topic is for the person who is able to find people in the the know and interview them. Perhaps you can locate a nearby retort undergoing repair or total cool-down inspection.

Thanks for responding.
Chester

[Blacksamwell]

Do you already know of such sources?  If so please share.

My searches only turn up sources that say all of the organs are consumed.  Only ash and bones remain.

[Gord]

My friend's family runs a funeral home.  They cremate people.  I used to hear loverly stories on occasion.

Cremations turn people to dust.  There are usually little bits of bone left, but nothing you can bank on -- it was never a case of, "this particular part never burns completely," it was more of "hey, this bit didn't burn completely this time, how weird."

However!  Back in the Olden Days, when they burnt people at the stake, they often found some of the squishier/mushier/moister organs wouldn't burn completely (or so I have heard).  There's one story that Joan of Arc's heart had to be burnt three times, for instance.

(I got interested in this exact topic from reading Norse mythology.  In the poem Voluspa, Gullveig was burnt three times, "and yet she lives."  One interpretation has it that her half-burnt heart was swallowed by Loki each time she was burnt, causing him to give birth to three monsters.  I found that fascinating, and wondered just how thorough burning at the stake could be.)

[David]

I was told that it is better to be burnt alive
than have one's head cut off.





A hot steak is better than a cold chop.

[ruben lopez]

now that's just funny right there

[Chester]

Do you already know of such sources?  If so please share.

My searches only turn up sources that say all of the organs are consumed.  Only ash and bones remain.

All of my information is from eyewitness sources. I would like to see the topic discussed in a text.  

Chester

[David]

I would like to see the topic discussed in a text.

Hello Chester-
   Thank you for the post.   What remains after cremation
is an interesting topic.
My understanding is that destruction of
bones and teeth is a factor of heat and time.
More heat and longer time causes the breakdown
of teeth and bones.
  The Topf furnaces were generally efficient but were
not operated to destroy large bones and teeth as
coal was in short supply during the War.

[Pyrrho]

Bones and teeth would not have had to be cremated completely to ash. All that would have been required would have been to expose the bone and teeth to enough heat to render them friable. After that, it wouldn't take much for bones and teeth to crumble into the soil. The Topf ovens were more than sufficient, as were the open air burnings.

[Pyrrho]

Further reading:

http://www.cremation.org/faq.html

http://www.nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/ ... .html#what

What happens during the cremation process?

The casket or container is placed in the cremation chamber, where the temperature is raised to approximately 1400 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. After approximately 2 to 2 1/2 hours, all organic matter is consumed by heat or evaporation.

[Chester]

I would like to see the topic discussed in a text.

. . .
  The Topf furnaces were generally efficient but were
not operated to destroy large bones and teeth as
coal was in short supply during the War.

Thanks for reply.  Coal was used for cremation, except at Auschwitz where coke was used. Is my understanding correct?

Bones were milled?  Were they crushed, pulverized, hammered, . . . ?  Roller mill, ball mill, hammer mill????

I saw a photo of what was said to be bone crusher at the Jewish Virtual Library site. *That*  machine was used to reduce bones?

[Chester]

Further reading:

http://www.cremation.org/faq.html

http://www.nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/ ... .html#what

What happens during the cremation process?

The casket or container is placed in the cremation chamber, where the temperature is raised to approximately 1400 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. After approximately 2 to 2 1/2 hours, all organic matter is consumed by heat or evaporation.

Thank you. Loss on ignition. So how can a human heart remain after this process?

[Pyrrho]

Further reading:

http://www.cremation.org/faq.html

http://www.nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/ ... .html#what

What happens during the cremation process?

The casket or container is placed in the cremation chamber, where the temperature is raised to approximately 1400 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. After approximately 2 to 2 1/2 hours, all organic matter is consumed by heat or evaporation.

Thank you. Loss on ignition. So how can a human heart remain after this process?

In cremation, it can't. Tissue is burned to ash. Bone is left and is crushed.

Burnings on piles of wood can be a different matter, because the inner organs are partially protected by the ribcage. Thus, occasionally, the result can be something like the funeral pyre of Percy Shelley--his heart remained, was picked up by either his wife or one of his friends, and was kept by his wife for many years.

Haphazard cremation or burning on wood pyres could conceivably result in a few muscular tissues left behind. Even so, natural decay will occur eventually.

[David]

Holocaust Believers have never produced a single mass grave of
gassing victims.  They have conflated the horrors of the camps
liberated at the War's end to cover this gap in evidence.

They explain their Belief in millions of disappearing bodies
by some pretty amazing tales, which mix reality with myth and
fantasy.    
However, It is possible to burn and crush a human body to ashes.  It takes
high temperatures, over two hours of exposure and then labor to crush the
remains.
The outdoor cremation of hundreds of thousands of bodies is more problematic
for Believers.  Cremation at 1400 - 1800 degrees effects the surrounding
soil.  Bodies against the soil are not destroyed or leave teeth and large
bones.

Except for an incomplete set of borings done in the 1960's no public
research/excavations have been done at Auschwitz.  No mass graves,
no ash piles, and only a very limited amount of evidence relating to the 1942 use
of out door cremation has been found.
It is THAT simple.  To be a Believer, you NEED to believe in millions
of disappearing bodies.

Many crazy tales of body disposal were generated by
the Soviets when they claimed that 4,000,000 people were murdered
at Auschwitz.  Since the huge drop/revision of Auschwitz death tolls,
impossible claims of stuffing 8 bodies in the cremation muffles, total
cremation in 20 minutes, running furnaces for weeks straight, and
cremation pyres which consumed 2,000 bodies in a night   have all fallen
into the Believer Memory Hole.

Many people died (at least 75,000)  at Auschwitz.  The Germans built morgues
and cremation furnaces to store and then cremate bodies.
The ashes were put into small metal containers marked with
date of death and date of cremation...usually  a period of several days
separated death and cremation...thus the need for a morgue.

The details were entered into the camp registry.  Many of these
records have been released by the Russians.

Most of the morgues/crematorium were abandoned in 1942 (Krema I)
or 1943  (Krema IV and V) as the Germans controlled typhus outbreaks and
improved living conditions.
The camp morgue/offices were moved from Krema I to Krema II sometime
in summer 1942.   Krema II allegedly contained the "gas chamber" (in reality a
Leichenkeller) also contained offices, record storage, autopsy room,
and storage.

[Pyrrho]

Slow continuous burning achieves the same result. All that would have been required would have been to keep the fires going, and not necessarily at bonfire levels, either. It's called the "Wick effect," and has been tested using pig carcasses:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/158853.stm

Mass graves of cremated victims were found at Treblinka:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

The extermination section of Auschwitz was only part of the overall complex of camps collectively called "Auschwitz."

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005189

Photographic evidence shows smoke rising from the section of Auschwitz that witnesses have separately identified as the place where open-air burning of corpses was done:

http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/images/sto ... 206_1d.jpg

http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php? ... 1&Itemid=8

[David]

[quote="Pyrrho"]
Mass graves of cremated victims were found at Treblinka:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

"There were no human remains found."

Seems a lot of holes were dug where "mass graves"
were supposed to be with nothing found.
As Matthew showed there were several small
graves discovered.

[Pyrrho]

Mass graves of cremated victims were found at Treblinka:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

"There were no human remains found."

Seems a lot of holes were dug where "mass graves"
were supposed to be with nothing found.
As Matthew showed there were several small
graves discovered.

From the article, and this is from the passages taken from the original report:

The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.

Also:

In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.

[David]

" In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition"

Oh?   So we have two opposite Believer tales
1.  The Germans destroyed all traces of the bodies.
2.  The Germans left acres of bones strewn around.

Typical "Believer" logic.  

So, Pyrrho.  I have been to Treblinka and spent
several hours looking around.  I missed all the bones.
Did not see a single one.  Several other people I know
have scoured the area for any traces of mass graves.

Which is why I have to ask,

Are you saying that these "countless human bones" are still there?



Or maybe there are not there (at least anywhere in the numbers described)
and never were, which is why there is the contradictory set of tales of amazing
bone crushing machines, digging up graves and total destruction of evidence?


Of course, the most rational view is that of the Revisionists, which
is that a few thousand people died at the Treblinka camps and were
disposed of in a normal way over the course of two 1/2 years.

[Matthew Ellard]

In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition"

Oh?   So we have two opposite Believer tales
1.  The Germans destroyed all traces of the bodies.
2.  The Germans left acres of bones strewn around.

Crap.  You are lying again Never has any of us, who read conventional history, ever said this.  In fact Pyrrho has posted the Polish report that clarifies this for you.  You simply refuse to read it because you are a holocaust denier .  

Typical "Believer" logic.  

 
No, you are incorrect.  Pyrrho is using what we call "evidence' from a Polish investigation.  As holocaust deniers don't do investigations, or like Krege FAKE investigations, you would struggle to understand the concept of evidence.  

So, Pyrrho.  I have been to Treblinka and spent several hours looking around.  I missed all the bones.  Did not see a single one.  Several other people I know
have scoured the area for any traces of mass graves.

The Polish report was in 1945 and they excavated test pits.  Where you digging there also in 1945?  Perhaps you went with Krege in which case you can inform us which university he used to analyse his raw data?  Krege doesn't know himself.  No holocaust denier knows either.....(funny about that)

Which is why I have to ask, Are you saying that these "countless human bones" are still there?

You seem to be unable to read clear english.  The Nazis cremated the bodies in an attempt to hide their crime.  As they were incompetent they failed to achieve this in full.  Because you are a lying holocaust denier you are pretending you don't know this.  

Or maybe there are not there (at least anywhere in the numbers described) and never were, which is why there is the contradictory set of tales of amazing bone crushing machines, digging up graves and total destruction of evidence?

You are pretending that you have forgotten the Hofle decrpyt, the SS internal documents concerning the volumes of clothes and teeth taken from victims, the confessions of Nazis and eye witness accounts....and the Polish report.   This is because you are a lying holocaust denier who will do anything to support the movement in its dying days.  

Of course, the most rational view is that of the Revisionists, which
is that a few thousand people died at the Treblinka camps and were
disposed of in a normal way over the course of two 1/2 years.

I note that you are ignoring the Hofle decrypt again and other evidence again.  I can only deduce that "revisionists" are ignorant fools who lie like you do.  However your few remaining holocaust denier friends at CODOH seem unable to explain the Hofle decrypt.  That's why they are leaving your silly cult in droves.  It's over.

[fromthehills]

Is there any evidence Hitler existed? The only thing I've seen is some black and white footage of a guy they claim to be Hitler. I'm skeptical, because no one has a real mustache like that, it's an obvious disguise. Then there's his greatest feat, the alleged Autobahn, which I have never seen, and I have lived in Germany. No sensible American is going to believe in a freeway with no speed limit. It's just ridiculous. Well, maybe it has no speed limit because all that they have are Volkswagon beetles that can only do 55 mph anyway, but my point is that there is no need for such a freeway when all you do is wear shorts with suspenders and celebrate October by drinking beer all year.

[David]

Is there any evidence Hitler existed? .

Gee, I just asked the acres of "countless human bones" are still there
and you go dancing off about Hitler.

Do you actually know what the "evidence" found at Treblinka
was?

[fromthehills]

Is there any evidence Hitler existed? .

Gee, I just asked the acres of "countless human bones" are still there
and you go dancing off about Hitler.

Do you actually know what the "evidence" found at Treblinka
was?

Honestly, No. I haven't educated myself much on the Holocaust, nor Holocaust denial. That's why I don't pipe in much. I won't pretend to know as much as you and Mathew do. To be honest with you, though, I find Mathew's argument and sources far more credible. I don't have a dog in the race, but to me, presenting tiny bits of "evidence", shaky at best, that denies or over looks mountains of established, verified evidence seems to be an act of futility, and seems to only serve the purpose of belittling a people's history, and likely the people themselves. I'm not pro-Jewish, either, in the fact that it's really just a religion, and I don't think they have the ultimate claim on human suffering. But denying what 99.9% of the world's educated population holds to be fact, and that all the evidence points to being fact, seems a bit off. Even if I was anti-Semitic, the facts of history would not change for me.

My previous post was obviously me poking fun at ignorance, mine included.

[David]

Is there any evidence Hitler existed? .

Gee, I just asked the acres of "countless human bones" are still there
and you go dancing off about Hitler.

Do you actually know what the "evidence" found at Treblinka
was?

Honestly, No. I haven't educated myself much on the Holocaust, .

Fair enough. You are like most people and accept what you are told.

 I have educated myself and have been to Treblinka.
There are no acres of "countless human bones" there.

That is why there are now new tales on
amazing German systems of body disposal.

Now, if you want to test the  Skeptical  side of your brain,
"The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest
to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), "

Where the hell did the bomb craters come from?

[David]

 
You are pretending that you have forgotten the Hofle decrpyt, the SS internal documents concerning the volumes of clothes and teeth taken from victims, the confessions of Nazis and eye witness accounts....and the Polish report.   This is because you are a lying holocaust denier who will do anything to support the movement in its dying days. .

Hello Matthew.   I only asked if you believed that
"the acres covered with countless human bones" are still there as in,
could  Mr. fromthehills  go to Treblinka and see countless
human bones strew over acres?    Thank you.

[fromthehills]

Fair enough. You are like most people and accept what you are told.

Hardly.

[Matthew Ellard]

You are pretending that you have forgotten the Hofle decrpyt, the SS internal documents concerning the volumes of clothes and teeth taken from victims, the confessions of Nazis and eye witness accounts....and the Polish report.   This is because you are a lying holocaust denier who will do anything to support the movement in its dying days. .

Hello Matthew.   I only asked if you believed that
"the acres covered with countless human bones" are still there as in,
could  Mr. fromthehills  go to Treblinka and see countless
human bones strew over acres?    Thank you.  

.  

Treblinka was operating during the war.  The Polish investigation was in 1945.  It is currently 2010 which is 65 years later.   Because holocaust deniers cannot count they don't understand that 65 years has passed and therefore the evidence today is not the same as 1945.   However the good news is, if FromtheHills took the mind to apply on behalf of some university for proper research purposes and the trustees of Treblinka accepted that submission there is no reason that Fromthehills would find evidence of the same nature as the Polish investigation.

Have you informed FromtheHills about the holocaust deniers "Krege Report" in which an unqualified person, without permission went to Treblinka, scanned the surface with a ground penetrating radar and announced there were no bodies? Perhaps you can explain to all of us where Krege got his raw data analysed? Why Krege cant say where he scanned? Why Krege can't print a final report?
BECAUSE KREGE FAKED THE WHOLE EVENT  
   
I note you are still imitating my use of blue letters.   I am wearing a dark grey suit today with a dark blue tie.  If you want to dress up like me as well feel free but I don't date boys.

[Matthew Ellard]

Honestly, No. I haven't educated myself much on the Holocaust, nor Holocaust denial.

Neither did I until I joined this forum.  I joined to argue against scientologists but none ever came here!  I simply started to read some of the holocaust denier's posts here and thought "Hang on that's not right" and then educated myself on the subject.  

However this sub-forum has little to do with holocaust history.  David insults Churchill, jews, promotes the good work of Nazis and his senior holocaust deniers.  David won't actually read any holocaust evidence so this forum is a bit one sided.   Another former member of our Skeptic Society forum, Gawdzilla, is doing good word destroying holocaust deniers on JREF's forum, using evidence as his main weapon.   We are pursuing holocaust deniers who left here to try spread their BS elsewhere.  It's a hobby!

[Blacksamwell]

Fair enough. You are like most people and accept what you are told.

Hardly.

I chuckled over that one too.  Couldn't really think of anything witty to say.

But I did wonder how it would work if an individual were to really and truly live in such a way that they must prove everything themselves, first hand.

Can you imagine how much work it would be just preparing to take a short flight on a commercial airline?  You'd have to recreate the work of the Wright brothers entirely before you'd even begin to trust that air travel was possible.



Reminds me of a story...

My friend was in the Peace Corps in Ghana and discovers a local version of a pub where they actually had a refrigerated keg of beer.  He walks there frequently and meets other Peace Corps volunteers for libations.

The pub sells beer per glass, but my friend drinks many glasses and wishes to reduce his trips to the bar by purchasing a pitcher of beer.  Bartender is unfamiliar with the concept, so my friend demonstrates how a large container can hold several glasses of beer, so fill it up and charge for the total.

Bartender proceeds to fill a glass of beer and pour it in the large container, counting each glass, until the large container was full.  Of course this makes the beer warmer and flatter than usual, but my friend was willing to endure this to establish the measure of the large container.  The bill was totaled and my friend returned to his table to enjoy the large container.

When my friend returned to the bar with the same container the bartender agreed to sell him another round of beer in the large container, but then proceeded to pour beer into the glass and then transfer it to the large container.  Repeating the entire process of counting each glass.  My friend protested and asked why he couldn't just pay the same price as last time for the same number of total glasses.  The bartender's response...  "But it may have changed!"

I dedicate that tale to Landrew.  May your gray basket be ever full.

[fromthehills]

I recollect a Beavis and Butthead episode with the same theme. They were into heavy metal videos, but every time a particular Janet Jackson video came on, one of them would stare, and the other would ridicule him for being into pop. The reply was " I think she's going to take it off this time"

[David]

   Matthew Ellard wrote: You are pretending that you have forgotten the Hofle decrpyt, the SS internal documents concerning the volumes of clothes and teeth taken from victims, the confessions of Nazis and eye witness accounts....and the Polish report. This is because you are a lying holocaust denier who will do anything to support the movement in its dying days. .


   David wrote: Hello Matthew. I only asked if you believed that
   "the acres covered with countless human bones" are still there as in,
   could Mr. fromthehills go to Treblinka and see countless
   human bones strew over acres? Thank you.

.

Treblinka was operating during the war. The Polish investigation was in 1945. It is currently 2010 which is 65 years later. Because holocaust deniers cannot count they don't understand that 65 years has passed and therefore the evidence today is not the same as 1945. However the good news is, if FromtheHills took the mind to apply on behalf of some university for proper research purposes and the trustees of Treblinka accepted that submission there is no reason that Fromthehills would find evidence of the same nature as the Polish investigation.

Have you informed FromtheHills about the holocaust deniers "Krege Report" in which an unqualified person, without permission went to Treblinka, scanned the surface with a ground penetrating radar and announced there were no bodies? Perhaps you can explain to all of us where Krege got his raw data analysed? Why Krege cant say where he scanned? Why Krege can't print a final report?
BECAUSE KREGE FAKED THE WHOLE EVENT

He was there.  The fields of countless human bones aren't.

You are like the Believers in Noah's Ark, claiming the
Ark is somewhere up on Mount Ararat.

[fromthehills]

Honestly, No. I haven't educated myself much on the Holocaust, nor Holocaust denial.

Neither did I until I joined this forum.  I joined to argue against scientologists but none ever came here!  I simply started to read some of the holocaust denier's posts here and thought "Hang on that's not right" and then educated myself on the subject.  

However this sub-forum has little to do with holocaust history.  David insults Churchill, jews, promotes the good work of Nazis and his senior holocaust deniers.  David won't actually read any holocaust evidence so this forum is a bit one sided.   Another former member of our Skeptic Society forum, Gawdzilla, is doing good word destroying holocaust deniers on JREF's forum, using evidence as his main weapon.   We are pursuing holocaust deniers who left here to try spread their BS elsewhere.  It's a hobby!

Good for Gawdzilla, I like that guy.

What's the appeal? To countering the deniers, I mean. I understand that trying to spread false history is wrong, and should be countered so it doesn't spread into mainstream, just as anti-vaxers have done. But I mean, what's the appeal as a hobby? I probably answered my own question, but what do you say?

[Matthew Ellard]

 BECAUSE KREGE FAKED THE WHOLE EVENT

He was there.  The fields of countless human bones aren't.

Oh really?  Can you show me on a map of Treblinka where he was?  Amazingly he doesn't know himself.  
Krege maintains that he took a team of scientists to Treblinka in October 1999. However according to British historian Alan Heath, Krege did not have permission from the authorities in Warsaw, Siedlce nor in Treblinka itself. This led this historian to assume that Krege either never visited Treblinka at all or was at the site only for a very short time for a video of the scanning to be taken. This opinion is further supported by the fact that Fredrick Töben, director of the Adelaide Institute which funded Krege's team, did not present the findings at the Iranian Holocaust Conference which he attended in December 2006.  Krege has not only failed to publish his findings but also has failed to respond to questions as to the actual dates of his alleged visits to Treblinka and Bełżec nor challenges to visit the site with qualified scientists.  To avoid arrest in the European Union, Krege used his brothers Passport to travel by air to London and then overland to the Ukraine in July 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Krege

You holocaust deniers lie to each other.  That's what makes the cult so hilarious.  

[Matthew Ellard]

 What's the appeal? To countering the deniers, I mean. I understand that trying to spread false history is wrong, and should be countered so it doesn't spread into mainstream, just as anti-vaxers have done. But I mean, what's the appeal as a hobby? I probably answered my own question, but what do you say?

I think the appeal is two fold.  Firstly, by researching to find holes in holocaust deniers arguments, I have discovered other unrelated bits of information that have been of use to me in other projects.  However, the main reason is I really hate neo-nazis.   I have a general fear that the movement may rise again under a different name.  

[David]

However this sub-forum has little to do with holocaust history. David insults Churchill, jews, promotes the good work of Nazis and his senior holocaust deniers.

Matthew, you are off on a typical Believer rant of a personal attack.

Matthew, I have been to Auschwitz and Treblinka just to see
what is there.
There are no fields of human bones at Treblinka and never were.
Get it...no fields of bones, no mountains of gassed bodies,
no amazing burning pits at Auschwitz, no pathways made from
human ashes.   All the stories you believe are not true.
It is that simple.

Instead of admitting it, you come up with the dishonest
smear that I "insult jews."  Why don't you just come up with
a current picture of the field of countless human bones?

You are as crazy as the craziest religious fanatic waving his
bible to "prove" the earth was underwater 4,000 years ago
rather than looking out the window

Believers confront the simple evidence (of no mass graves) by getting
ugly and nasty.  Why?    
I am bringing you Good News  (on a macabre subject)
It was claimed 1.4 million people were murdered and turned
into fertilizer at Majdanek.  Revisionists claimed the figure was closer to
41,000   mainly Jewish victims.  Turns out we Revisionist were right.

Instead of thanking us, you Believers go and make "Denial"
a frigg'n felony.  Imagine, trying to lift you out of your sick twisted
belief has been made a CRIME.

[David]

 BECAUSE KREGE FAKED THE WHOLE EVENT

He was there.  The fields of countless human bones aren't.

Oh really?  Can you show me on a map of Treblinka where he was?  Amazingly he doesn't know himself.  .  To avoid arrest in the European Union, Krege used his brothers Passport to travel by air to London and then overland to the Ukraine in July 2009[/i]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Krege

You holocaust deniers lie to each other.  That's what makes the cult so hilarious.  

Hello Matthew-  What about "To avoid arrest" don't you understand?
As you pointed out, there is a video of Krege at Treblinka...and you are
babbling about him not being there.    

Since Krege produced a video of him looking for your "field of countless
human bones"  why don't you stop your BS and insults and
direct us to a video of all the countless bones you claim are there?

So, I am calling your Believer crap.   Within one month post a
cite to a video which shows "countless"...well that is a Believer term...
how about 25,000 human bones in the fields of Treblinka.
There are 206 bones in the human body along with 32 teeth
times 900,000 victims. Heck Matthew with 180,000,000 bones and
27,000,000 teeth you should have no trouble confirming the
amazing tale of the polish commission.

[David]

 However, the main reason is I really hate neo-nazis.   I have a general fear that the movement may rise again under a different name.  

Obviously you have an agenda, Matthew.
You go for any stupid tale from human soap to shrunken head collections
to tales of fields of human bones, hook-line and sinker and
then accuse me of being a "neo-Nazi."  

Conversely you ignore the errors and faults of your "icons."
In short, you are a Believer, Matthew, living in a
world of devils and devil fighters.
People like you are dangerous to normal people, Matthew.

Anyway, this is all pretty simple now.
Just show us a contemporary video of
a tiny fraction of the field of human bones (just a mere 25,000)
that your Commission says were/are there at Treblinka
and you win.
Or admit that the Polish report was exaggerated.
Simple.

[Matthew Ellard]

However this sub-forum has little to do with holocaust history. David insults Churchill, jews, promotes the good work of Nazis and his senior holocaust deniers.

Matthew, you are off on a typical Believer rant of a personal attack.
Matthew, I have been to Auschwitz and Treblinka just to see
what is there.

Would that be at the same time as Krege?  What exact days were those "david"?

There are no fields of human bones at Treblinka and never were.
Get it...no fields of bones, no mountains of gassed bodies, no amazing burning pits at Auschwitz, no pathways made from human ashes.   All the stories you believe are not true. It is that simple.

You lied 18 times on the last thread.  You haven't read the Polish report from 1945 so you don't have a clue what you thought you were looking at.   In other words you haven't got a clue what the evidence was in 1945 anyway.  I have posted actual photos of a mass burial pit at Treblinka and you didn't see these 65 years after the Polish report.  Funny that.  Did you look at the exact same areas as defined in the Polish report?  Well if you haven't read it you obviously didn't.  Go away you stupid holocaust denier.

Instead of admitting it, you come up with the dishonest smear that I "insult jews."  Why don't you just come up with a current picture of the field of countless human bones?

You directly lied two posts ago and said that soviet munitions were produced at Treblinka by 5,000 people.   That was a complete lie that you made up on the spot.  You are now pretending that you are too stupid to understand that 65 years has past since the Polish report and you have magically forgotten the 330,000 overcoats taken by the SS from Treblinka victims that appears in their documents.  

So what is it  are you lying, are you senile or just stupid?  
 

You are as crazy as the craziest religious fanatic waving his
bible to "prove" the earth was underwater 4,000 years ago rather than looking out the window

They didn't have windows 4000 year ago.  ( I now understand why you are confused about the 65 years passing since the Polish report into Treblinka. You are just thick )

Believers confront the simple evidence (of no mass graves) by getting
ugly and nasty.  Why?  

1) Hofle Telegram "713,500 sent to Treblinka" ( David refuses to read this)
2) 1945 Polish Report into Treblinka ( David refuses to read this)
3) SS internal document "330,000mens overcoats" ( David refuses to read this)
4) SS Internal document on gold from teeth ( David refuses to read this)\
5) Franz Stangl, who ran Treblinka admitted at his trial he killed almost 900,000people. ( David wont read the confession)

Lies by David so far in this thread alone
1) "5,000 people worked at each Treblinka camp" ( A direct lie with no citation)
2)  "Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were
processed" ( A direct lie with no citation)
3) "Treblinka was a transit camp" ( A direct lie with no citation)
4) "Reports by Soviet and Polish investigations from the 1940's tend to greatly exaggerate" ( You have never read a Polish or Soviet document nor looked at their references or citations.)

Instead of thanking us, you Believers go and make "Denial"
a frigg'n felony.  Imagine, trying to lift you out of your sick twisted
belief has been made a CRIME.

You are insane!

[Matthew Ellard]

Hello Matthew-  What about "To avoid arrest" don't you understand?
As you pointed out, there is a video of Krege at Treblinka...and you are
babbling about him not being there.

What exact days David?  Was he there for more than five minutes? Why isn't there a marker grid in any of the video.  Why doesn't Krege know when he went there?  

Since Krege produced a video of him looking for your "field of countless human bones"  why don't you stop your BS and insults and
direct us to a video of all the countless bones you claim are there?

I have now posted the photos from the Polish Investigation three times.  They supply dates, grid maps, a judge, a report etc etc.   Is your short term memory failing you again?  

Poor holocaust denier......no one takes him seriously.....poor boy....

[David]

There are no fields of human bones at Treblinka and never were.
Get it...no fields of bones, no mountains of gassed bodies, no amazing burning pits at Auschwitz, no pathways made from human ashes.   All the stories you believe are not true. It is that simple.

You lied 18 times on the last thread.  .

 Why don't you just come up with a current picture of the field of countless human bones?

You directly lied .  
you lying.  
 
Lies by David  

You are insane!

My goodness, matthew, all I did is to ask you for some current
pictures of the "countless human bones" you claim are strewn
over acres.  That should not be hard to do.