In the need of a German speaker

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Oozy_Substance
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In the need of a German speaker

Postby Oozy_Substance » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:15 pm

Hi,
Did not post here for a long time.

So I found myself again debating with deniers online.

I posted the following documents from Auschwitz, which I took from Aaron Richards's blog.

HC also wrote an entry about these documents.

Anyway, one guy claimed for broken German in the document. The use of "weil der größte Teil Kinder war" instead of "weil der größte Teil Kinder waren".

Since I don't speak German I can't really deal with it.

Is there any German speaking person here that have some insights about it?

I think these two documents are quite important, they present the large proportions of extermination in Auschwitz and if deniers try to take them as is they get to some impossibilities (Nazis housing hundreds of Jewish women and children in Auschwitz on a daily basis just for the purpose of taking care of them)

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Poodle » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:40 pm

I think you may not need a German speaker. Look through this forum for English spelling and grammatical errors from English speakers. Germans are not now and never have been perfect grammarians or spellers.

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:49 pm

I really need to visit Aaron’s blog more often. He has some good stuff posted.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:08 pm

Is it just me or are those terrible scans?
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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby nickterry » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:23 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:Hi,
Did not post here for a long time.

So I found myself again debating with deniers online.

I posted the following documents from Auschwitz, which I took from Aaron Richards's blog.

HC also wrote an entry about these documents.

Anyway, one guy claimed for broken German in the document. The use of "weil der größte Teil Kinder war" instead of "weil der größte Teil Kinder waren".

Since I don't speak German I can't really deal with it.

Is there any German speaking person here that have some insights about it?

I think these two documents are quite important, they present the large proportions of extermination in Auschwitz and if deniers try to take them as is they get to some impossibilities (Nazis housing hundreds of Jewish women and children in Auschwitz on a daily basis just for the purpose of taking care of them)


der groesste Teil = the greater part, so a singular, thus war rather than waren. Since German has different definite articles for singular and plural, der/die/das for singular and die for plural, the use of 'der groesste Teil' will lock in the use of a singular form of was rather than were.

English also has the same problem dealing with singular subjects vs plural objects - "the majority (singular) were children" is correct idiomatic usage, but there are other singular subject-plural object combinations which would use 'was'. I myself hate dealing with this nuance when I write.

One response to any German Grammar Nazi challenge is to ask what educational level the writer actually had or should have had - this signal came from the Auschwitz camp staff labour section, IIRC, none of whose officers were university graduates. It's kind of cute that someone thinks no German ever makes grammatical mistakes.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:37 pm

It also goes back to the common denier refrain of “But....the Germans were perfect and would never make any mistakes!!!!!!!! This proves the Holocaust never happened!!!!!”

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:58 pm

Speaking for myself I have never made a signle typo in these forum. Sheesh.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Balsamo » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:06 pm

Nick Terry wrote:

One response to any German Grammar Nazi challenge is to ask what educational level the writer actually had or should have had - this signal came from the Auschwitz camp staff labour section, IIRC, none of whose officers were university graduates. It's kind of cute that someone thinks no German ever makes grammatical mistakes.


Nick told all of it.
I would just add that, especially within the SS, aside from poorly educated people, you could also deal with "Volksdeutsche".
Then it is often the said that Hitler is the one who achieved the German unification. We should keep in mind that what is known internationally as the German language is what is called "Hochdeutsch" which was not spoken in all parts of the empire, especially not among the less educated population.
Even today, German is not spoken the same way everywhere, i remembered that it was quite tough in East-Berlin when i visited the city in 89, even for me (back then i was really fluent)...It was during a school trip and our "teacher of German" was lost upon arrival at the railway station of West-Berlin...She was quite lucky to have me...lol...But as a matter of fact, they were speaking a "funny German", up North in the Baltic region, it is even worse...

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:06 pm

I no, rite?

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:14 am

nickterry wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:Hi,
Did not post here for a long time.

So I found myself again debating with deniers online.

I posted the following documents from Auschwitz, which I took from Aaron Richards's blog.

HC also wrote an entry about these documents.

Anyway, one guy claimed for broken German in the document. The use of "weil der größte Teil Kinder war" instead of "weil der größte Teil Kinder waren".

Since I don't speak German I can't really deal with it.

Is there any German speaking person here that have some insights about it?

I think these two documents are quite important, they present the large proportions of extermination in Auschwitz and if deniers try to take them as is they get to some impossibilities (Nazis housing hundreds of Jewish women and children in Auschwitz on a daily basis just for the purpose of taking care of them)


der groesste Teil = the greater part, so a singular, thus war rather than waren. Since German has different definite articles for singular and plural, der/die/das for singular and die for plural, the use of 'der groesste Teil' will lock in the use of a singular form of was rather than were.

English also has the same problem dealing with singular subjects vs plural objects - "the majority (singular) were children" is correct idiomatic usage, but there are other singular subject-plural object combinations which would use 'was'. I myself hate dealing with this nuance when I write.

One response to any German Grammar Nazi challenge is to ask what educational level the writer actually had or should have had - this signal came from the Auschwitz camp staff labour section, IIRC, none of whose officers were university graduates. It's kind of cute that someone thinks no German ever makes grammatical mistakes.



As well one might question the educational level/motivation of anyone willing to draw a causal relationship between a single error of grammar and/or syntax as incontrovertible proof of forgery.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:21 am

LOL
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:40 am

Balmoral95 wrote:As well one might question the educational level/motivation of anyone willing to draw a causal relationship between a single error of grammar and/or syntax as incontrovertible proof of forgery.



Ding, ding, ding, come on down, Monstrous!!!!

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:24 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:As well one might question the educational level/motivation of anyone willing to draw a causal relationship between a single error of grammar and/or syntax as incontrovertible proof of forgery.



Ding, ding, ding, come on down, Monstrous!!!!


The late Heink was a great exponent of that formulation. He was, of course, a moron. Might as well spent his dotage looking for a white whale.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:55 am

nickterry wrote:
der groesste Teil = the greater part, so a singular, thus war rather than waren. Since German has different definite articles for singular and plural, der/die/das for singular and die for plural, the use of 'der groesste Teil' will lock in the use of a singular form of was rather than were.



Thanks. I had a feeling it would be something of this sort. I bet this guy was fully aware that "war" fits here yet he chose to mislead me.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:32 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:As well one might question the educational level/motivation of anyone willing to draw a causal relationship between a single error of grammar and/or syntax as incontrovertible proof of forgery.


And the best part is that it wasn't even an error! I deal with the plural-singular dilemma use in words like 'majority', 'minority' etc all the time, both in English and in Greek. It was a deception try from the denier in question.

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Re: In the need of a German speaker

Postby Aaron Richards » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:39 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Is it just me or are those terrible scans?


I agree the document on the right is hard to read. This is one of the many photos I took during my visit to Auschwitz-Birkenau in September 2016. They have a lot of documents (mostly copies, not originals) on display in the museum section of Auschwitz I that consists of several re-purposed former inmate barrack buildings.

Today my knowledge about Auschwitz has expanded a bit more than what it was last year, and I know about the gypsy camp with the women and children, as well as the fact that thousands of babies were indeed born in Auschwitz (mostly from women already pregnant upon arrival) and that the majority of them, especially the Jewish babies, was murdered almost immediately after being born.

Oozy_Substance wrote:Anyway, one guy claimed for broken German in the document. The use of "weil der größte Teil Kinder war" instead of "weil der größte Teil Kinder waren".


The German word "war" (was) in the sentence: "weil der grösste Teil Kinder war" is singular (instead of plural, "waren") because it refers to the noun "Teil" (part) also being singular.

Essentially, the last sentence is saying that the men had to be "specially accommodated" due to them being infirm, and the women had to be "specially accommodated" because largest part [of them] was children.
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7


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