It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:30 pm



Scaramucci said. “The President has a very good idea of the people that are undermining his agenda that are serving their own interests.”


Weakling, wuss, coward, lickspittle Drumpf.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
Ian Hazard wrote: [...] am I right? — or am I crazy?"



Yes, Jews are doing well with all professions need intellectual skills, but not because father Rothschild told his sons go conquer financially the world. But because Jews invest too much in education. During centuries, both before and after the Middle Ages, Jews weren't allowed to own land and they were forbidden from certain professions. So they have to choose professions that need intellectual skills, as well as in the exchanging money business. This is why newly born young Israel today is from the first country in innovations. Because Jews consider education a great virtue for their children.

These are simple facts that anyone can find if he wants to look at reality, and not filling his brain vacuums with hate and nonsense.

Even George Soros, the classic textbook stereotype of 'the Jew Elder of Zion for world domination', do you know that Zionists and friends of Israel don't like him at all because he gives financial aid and lots of money only to pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist organizations and NGOs? Not a cent to Jewish Zionist organizations.



Two points here I'd like to amplify. First, in Poland when it was under the thumb of Russia, Jews were frequently caught between the Polish nobility and the Polish peasants. They had the thankless job of being stewards of the great estates, which meant they were employed by the nobility, but their job was to help the nobility squeeze the peasants. I don't say that happened always and everywhere, but it was a prominent feature of the Jewish experience of life under the Tsar.

Second, the Soros example is enlightening. I've lived a long life and interacted with organizations where Jews were numerous. THEY DID NOT FAVOR OTHER JEWS, EVER. A Gentile would always get exactly the same consideration as a Jew in matters of hiring and promotion. (I consider myself a good example of that, being in fact a Gentile who was certainly not a brilliant flash.) In fact, there were many just-normal feuds between Jewish members of the organization, utterly transparent to their ethnicity. I might add that they were one and all secular Jews who had little or no contact with any "Jewish community" even though many of them were refugees from the Nazis.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:33 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:


Scaramucci said. “The President has a very good idea of the people that are undermining his agenda that are serving their own interests.”


Weakling, wuss, coward, lickspittle Drumpf.


New from CNN:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/13/politics/trump-advisers-bannon/index.html

I'll believe it when I see Trump dump Bannon.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:37 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Considering his past and usual rhetoric on "hate", his "condemning tweet" seems to say stop resisting and join my troops... be American!

That's what you get from someone who's been out of touch with the real world for too long. Such easy picking for the evil that loves a trained monkey in high places.


If Trump were asked to name a racist organization, he'd name Black Lives Matter. He'll engage in any mental contortions necessary to keep on riling up the rubes.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:38 pm

TJrandom wrote:

WTF? Why is the mooch even being granted hometown newspaper space? I thought he had become a gardener... Maybe he got some beer money for his efforts. :lol:

In all of which The Mooch seems to be saying that Trump can't think for himself, and being influenced by Bannon, despite his supposedly having "a very good idea of the people that are undermining his agenda that are serving their own interests," er, Bannon.

The Mooch should stick with being a punching bag for the late-night shows. But he probably enjoys being hired for a short stint as "knife Bannon guy," even if by his erstwhile adversaries.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:44 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:


Scaramucci said. “The President has a very good idea of the people that are undermining his agenda that are serving their own interests.”


Weakling, wuss, coward, lickspittle Drumpf.


New from CNN:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/13/politics/trump-advisers-bannon/index.html

I'll believe it when I see Trump dump Bannon.


My guess is that even if Bannon gets fired, he won't ever be far away from Trump, and they'll still be interacting about as much as ever. In any case, unless Trump also fires Miller, Gorka, and Sessions, the racism in the White House will not abate.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:48 pm

Firing Bannon, saying "I condemn," talking rationally for 30 seconds or reading from teleprompter, etc: lipstick on this pig.

Image
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:51 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:...unless Trump also fires Miller, Gorka, and Sessions, the racism in the White House will not abate.


Nor the waste of tax payers' money...
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
Ian Hazard wrote: [...] am I right? — or am I crazy?"



Yes, Jews are doing well with all professions need intellectual skills, but not because father Rothschild told his sons go conquer financially the world. But because Jews invest too much in education. During centuries, both before and after the Middle Ages, Jews weren't allowed to own land and they were forbidden from certain professions. So they have to choose professions that need intellectual skills, as well as in the exchanging money business. This is why newly born young Israel today is from the first country in innovations. Because Jews consider education a great virtue for their children.

These are simple facts that anyone can find if he wants to look at reality, and not filling his brain vacuums with hate and nonsense.

Even George Soros, the classic textbook stereotype of 'the Jew Elder of Zion for world domination', do you know that Zionists and friends of Israel don't like him at all because he gives financial aid and lots of money only to pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist organizations and NGOs? Not a cent to Jewish Zionist organizations.



Two points here I'd like to amplify. First, in Poland when it was under the thumb of Russia, Jews were frequently caught between the Polish nobility and the Polish peasants. They had the thankless job of being stewards of the great estates, which meant they were employed by the nobility, but their job was to help the nobility squeeze the peasants. I don't say that happened always and everywhere, but it was a prominent feature of the Jewish experience of life under the Tsar.

Second, the Soros example is enlightening. I've lived a long life and interacted with organizations where Jews were numerous. THEY DID NOT FAVOR OTHER JEWS, EVER. A Gentile would always get exactly the same consideration as a Jew in matters of hiring and promotion. (I consider myself a good example of that, being in fact a Gentile who was certainly not a brilliant flash.) In fact, there were many just-normal feuds between Jewish members of the organization, utterly transparent to their ethnicity. I might add that they were one and all secular Jews who had little or no contact with any "Jewish community" even though many of them were refugees from the Nazis.


It's a point that we often hit home here. The reality is that Jews are as diverse a group as anyone. People like Ian believe that Jews operate with some sort of "hive-mind" mentality when nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the research that I, Stat Mech and others focus on are European Jews from before and during WW II and one of the things that strike all of us is the wide variety of responses that those Jews reacted with the rise of Fascism.

The same prejudices that many Europeans held for Eastern Europeans was the same for Western Jews and their East European counterparts. Western Jews looked down on the "Ostjuden" in the same way their Gentile counterparts did. Even the moribund Holocaust denier meme of "Judea Declares War on Germany in 1933" fails to consider that German Jews opposed the boycott radicalized Jews wanted and they were joined in this by more mainstream Jews in Britain and the US.

So, essentially Ian and his little band of idiots continuously expose their stupidity in this matter by promoting this "Jewish hive-mind" hypothesis. Anyone who reads (I doubt Ian could or would do such a thing) "The Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939–1945" by Saul Friedländer and his detailing of how French Jews treated their Eastern brethren (among others) or "The Eichmann Trial" by Deborah Lipstadt and her reporting on the disdain that Israelis often treated their European brethren can see that this idea of the "Jewish hive-mind" is the crock of {!#%@} it truly is.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:05 pm

This piece with further background on Fields - who wrote a paper in high school which a former teacher describes as a “big lovefest for the German military and the Waffen-SS” - reminds me of when I taught university freshmen and sophomores (US history survey) a long time ago. I had a student who was at first a bit of a closet Nazi, eventually an out-there Nazi. I can't recall how I knew he was a closet Nazi - he might have dropped some hints to me, as I knew him better than most of my students, often sitting with him before class, as he came early like me. He would stop by during office hours and was very interested in the course.

Still, I was surprised to see him enroll for the spring half of the course - Reconstruction to the present (which was not today's present!), with the fall having been exploration/settlement to Civil War - because I taught the course with a heavy emphasis on race in American history, one of the first readings coming from Winthrop Jordan's White Over Black (which the jocks loved, btw, I figured at the time because they were among the few whites in the class with African American friends). OTOH I was a hard grader and gave maybe 2-3 A's out of 30 students; he got one of them, as he knew the material cold, worked hard, wrote well, and was thoughtful about what we studied. Maybe he saw another A in the cards . . .

Happier conclusion to this story than to the way Fields' life turned out: the kid gradually expressed misgivings with the direction he'd gone in, talking openly with me about why he was attracted to (fascinated by) Nazism and also his growing doubts. By the end of the course, he'd pretty much discarded all that. I never tried to persuade him, actually, just heard him out and responded honestly, and within the context of American history for the most part. Still, I know that the discussion he had with me was part of his process and, to be corny, growth.

The next year he still dropped by occasionally to talk, although I no longer I had him as a student.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:13 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's a point that we often hit home here. . . .

Just now Saggy is busy over at ISF explaining differences amongst Jews as an elaborate tarted up cover story for their machinations! LOL That one is really far gone, basically googling up anti-Semitic memes and posting them as though they were arguments in a debate on historical developments. His comment on the development of Hitler's anti-Semitism was to find contemporary outrages - "Jew spitting" and a rabbi bashing non-Jews - to explain why Hitler's words were prescient . . . and then to write, about clashing viewpoints etc, "the Jews have two modes of operation, 'in peaceful times', that is, when they are not in control of the situation, and then 'in the world to come', when they do. In peaceful times they throw up a smokescreen to disguise their true aims. In the world to come the masks disappear." There's really no point to debating such self-fulfilling nonsense, frankly. Ian, too.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby TJrandom » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:


WTF? Why is the mooch even being granted hometown newspaper space? I thought he had become a gardener... Maybe he got some beer money for his efforts. :lol:



LOL, hey, he's got time on his hands.


Time... and his dick, now that his misses has taken off. :lol:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Two points here I'd like to amplify. First, in Poland when it was under the thumb of Russia, Jews were frequently caught between the Polish nobility and the Polish peasants. They had the thankless job of being stewards of the great estates, which meant they were employed by the nobility, but their job was to help the nobility squeeze the peasants. I don't say that happened always and everywhere, but it was a prominent feature of the Jewish experience of life under the Tsar.


yep, its called: capitalism.

"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

Frequently attributed, often in the context of strikebreaking activities during the Great Southwest Railroad Strike of 1886. See for example Philip Sheldon Foner, History of the Labor Movement in the United States, Volume 2‎ - Page 50 (1975). A contemporary source has not been identified. Varying forms of the quotation circulated in the labor press as early as 1893, with or without the attribution to (Jay) Gould.

In my view: both halves of the working class gladly pay what taxes they do to fund the Police which pretty much does the work of killing/jailing (for profit .... AGAIN) when necessary. PO-lice. Lots of Con's to the pros that are regretably there as well.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:08 pm

just 'cuz (someone sent me the 2nd one today and I happened to hear the 1st one this past week):

Pop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M02bAWDFkI

Punk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAVhec3SRJg
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:08 pm

I'll be attending a vigil this evening in commemoration of the Charlottesville tragedy.

My wife's (Episcopal) church this morning, replaced the usual "Prayers of the People" with a "Litany against white supremacy." I'm quite sure the UCC, Baptist, and Catholic churches in the area did similar things, and I'm sure the mosques and temples in town will do likewise next week-end. I was encouraged that eyewitnesses reported that the racist demonstrators were greatly outnumbered by counter-demonstrators. But we need to keep showing up, all the time, until they crawl back under the slimy rocks they emerged from. Hence, my mission for this evening.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:13 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:But we need to keep showing up, all the time, until they crawl back under the slimy rocks they emerged from.
You mean.... defeat them at the voting booth?

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Hence, my mission for this evening.
Will it do anything?................."effective."
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:just 'cuz (someone sent me the 2nd one today and I happened to hear the 1st one this past week):

Pop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M02bAWDFkI

Punk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAVhec3SRJg


Thanks, I liked both.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:40 pm

. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Thanks, I liked both.

Både svenska, såklart.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:47 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:But we need to keep showing up, all the time, until they crawl back under the slimy rocks they emerged from.
You mean.... defeat them at the voting booth?

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Hence, my mission for this evening.
Will it do anything?................."effective."

Yes. It will show those that want you at the voting booth what they'll have to be to get your attention and a reason to consider them.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:59 pm


He learned than from his Furor, who is not the hateful, demeaning, traitorous, selfish, conniving, misogynistic sexual predator lying conman his recorded history shows him to be. :pardon:
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:13 pm

As retrograde as was the Tea Party era, and as cynical as I can be, I didn't imagine, say, in 2014 that in three years time the country's elected leaders could not agree to condemn Nazism.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:20 pm

They (all) are the victim here. They came ready for battle and got their asses whooped, they injured and even killed, but it's all the Police's fault for not protecting them. :sick:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:25 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:But we need to keep showing up, all the time, until they crawl back under the slimy rocks they emerged from.
You mean.... defeat them at the voting booth?

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Hence, my mission for this evening.
Will it do anything?................."effective."

Yes. It will show those that want you at the voting booth what they'll have to be to get your attention and a reason to consider them.


The main thing is to show the whole world, including especially the white racists in the US, just how small a minority of even white people they are. Right now, they have captured political power through an utterly unprincipled, power-seeking, egomaniacal mutant.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:26 pm

In that vein, Gov McAuliffe's comment - “Go home. You are not wanted in this great commonwealth. Shame on you. You came here today to hurt people, and you did hurt people.” - was a bit refreshing.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:The main thing is to show the whole world, including especially the white racists in the US, just how small a minority of even white people they are. Right now, they have captured political power through an utterly unprincipled, power-seeking, egomaniacal mutant.

I agree with you. One problem with Obama's presidency is that it was almost solely an electoral thing, without broad popular movements - pushing and agitating - behind it, in contrast to, say, a transformative presidency like Roosevelt's. If, as you say, there are numbers and if there is activity, votes will come easier.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:35 pm

It's time to draw a line in the sand. The number of Republicans lining up against Trump here is still pathetically small. They need to expel him from the Republican Party. I'm going to suggest that the local and state GOP organizations withdraw from the national and form their own conservative parties, boycotting the national Republican conventions. On the local and state level, despite their conservatism, we can talk with them and negotiate with them and compromise with them. But there must be NO compromise with a man who refuses to condemn the KKK and the Nazis outright, by name, in plain language. It's already too late for him to have any credibility on this issue. Even if he were NOW to condemn the KKK, everyone would know he was acting only out of political expediency. The man who constantly challenged Obama and Clinton to name "islamic terrorism" what it clearly is—and he was lying about that; they DID explicitly name ISIS and al-Qaeda and Boca Haron as terrorist groups—but somehow couldn't pronounce even the words he insisted they needed to say when he had a chance to do so in Saudia Arabia, now cannot bring himself to NAME the people behind the racist violence in Charlottesville yesterday, and takes refuge in equivocation.

If Trump continues to equate the ACLU (which has DEFENDED the right of Nazis to demonstrate in the past) and the NAACP (which has a decades-old record of peaceful protest) with the frothing, rabid animals that inhabit the KKK and the Nazi Party, he will provoke a Civil War, and it's one he and his racist companions will not win. The majority of white people are not with him in this enterprise.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:37 pm

Speaking of which, lookie where today's "pop up" rally in Chicago against racism ("Chicago Stands With Charlottesville") ended up.

(I didn't find out about it until after it happened . . . I guess that's how it is with "pop up" rallies . . . we were very nearby this morning.)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:In that vein, Gov McAuliffe's comment - “Go home. You are not wanted in this great commonwealth. Shame on you. You came here today to hurt people, and you did hurt people.” - was a bit refreshing.


Yeah, Fields is the quintessential "outside agitator" that George Corley Wallace used to invoke. (In Wallace's case, "outside agitators" were people who came to help black people organize and register to vote. He used the phrase purely as a term of abuse.) But it certainly describes Fields. As one who has spent some time there, I can testify that Charlottesville is not a stereotypical racist southern community such as one finds in B-grade Hollywood films. It is a sophisticated center of culture, and its people, all on their own, were in the process of modernizing and looking toward a future of racial equality. That was before Trump riled up all the bigots he could muster from there and surrounding states.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:41 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Speaking of which, lookie where today's "pop up" rally in Chicago against racism ("Chicago Stands With Charlottesville") ended up.

(I didn't find out about it until after it happened . . . I guess that's how it is with "pop up" rallies . . . we were very nearby this morning.)


Perfect! The exact place where the demonstration was needed. (When I saw your post, I was guessing: "Skokie?")
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:. . . If Trump continues to equate the ACLU (which has DEFENDED the right of Nazis to demonstrate in the past) and the NAACP (which has a decades-old record of peaceful protest) with the frothing, rabid animals that inhabit the KKK and the Nazi Party, he will provoke a Civil War, and it's one he and his racist companions will not win. The majority of white people are not with him in this enterprise.

Which is all such BS, yes, there were antifas in pseudo-combat gear present yesterday - but by all accounts by far most of the counter-protesters were peace, love and understanding types (anti-racist clergy reported being attacked by the fascists yesterday morning) . . . and, antifas or no antifas, what happened yesterday was tied up with the Unite the Right rally to agitate for a white ethnostate, fascist unity, and support for Trump . . . and also what happened was a terror attack on peaceful demonstrators by a fascist who was part of the Unite the Right groups. This either/or-ism Trump et al try selling is disingenuous crap meant to help the far right (sorry, Jeff_36, they are part of the right).
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:51 pm

Their stupidity is boundless. The city/police wanted to move them to a safer, more controllable area and they fought that in court - and won with the help of the ACLU. And now whatever happened is the fault of the police. And everyone else, probably of the ACLU, too.

No one told them not to stick their fingers into the socket! NO ONE!
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:57 pm

While I agree the best answer is always the combo plate: using both options/approaches.......both the formation and support of a broad based "movement" and getting the vote out on election day.........

..........isn't it more true than not that the current Republican Party is more KKK/Nationalistic than not?==ie, identifying Trump as the problem is really not that effective..... removing him would only line up the next purveyor?
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:00 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Their stupidity is boundless. The city/police wanted to move them to a safer, more controllable area and they fought that in court - and won with the help of the ACLU. And now whatever happened is the fault of the police. And everyone else, probably of the ACLU, too.

No one told them not to stick their fingers into the socket! NO ONE!

I thought I read/hear/maybe read in this very thread, that the violence broke out when the Police "left the area" some thinking so that expressly the violence would break out?.........not often being much more than right wing thugs themselves. It didn't really "get out of hand"....its just not PC to say your goal was reached.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:16 pm

Not sure. They complain about numbers and lack of "separation" (they would...). However, the vehicular murder appears to have happened to people nowhere in the vicinity of any WNs or clashes...

ETA: “I was about ten feet away when the car came. I had joined a group marching from the Downtown Mall...We all were cheering together, marching together, clapping and chanting. There was no one else around. No standoff...
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:27 pm

To Upton's earlier post on the GOP, here David Frum quotes Ishmael from Moby Dick, "Now, in general, Stick to the boat, is your true motto in whaling; but cases will sometimes happen when Leap from the boat, is still better."
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:33 pm

Best Mad Magazine opening line ever: "They call me, Fish meal."
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:55 pm

I'd been thinking him weaving in front of cameras like a kid reciting his poem and proving to his peeps the "working" in 'working vacation' all week was quite the disaster, but one can always change their mind. :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:20 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:(They also released the booking mug shot of James Alex Fields, Jr - I'll spare you guys the unpleasant moment...)

Homeboy needs to step up the cardio and lay off the Cesar "Salad".

so what? he {!#%@} ran peaceful protesters down using his car as a weapon, killing one of them and critically injuring five others, and we are supposed to worry that he doesn't look like Goebbels?


I was mocking and deriding him. He's a fat Nazi {!#%@}.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:So I can imagine any number of conservatives providing rhetorical cover for crude racism and using racists and racist tropes (Willie Horton, anyone?), as Reagan did so easily (long live the welfare queen!) and as other Republicans have done as a core part of what they're about. Because I've seen them do it - and I've seen the bulk of these conservatives support Trump too. They also need to answer for this, as Balmoral posted above in relation to the CIA guy's "brave" words.


I will agree that the modern day Republican party has fallen far and hard. I will also agree that there is a history of dog-whistling in Republican campaigns. However, none of it ever reached the level of explicit white nationalism that we see on display in Charlottsville. That was my point.


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