Scientific evidence for god discovered

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
djembeweaver
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby djembeweaver » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:03 pm

Gord wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Hey Gord.... you have it slightly wrong. Imagine of those billions of pennies that only 1 was of a certain combination. Now....if you are shown to a room with exactly that combination....do you think it was the result of one throw, a conscious designer, or one of a billion rooms?

If I was shown a room with a billion pennies in it, I would say "Whoa, that's a lot of pennies!"

It would have a certain combination by its nature. I wouldn't be impressed with it no matter what that combination was. I wouldn't think there must be an infinite number of other rooms containing every other combination possible.


Instead of a billion pennies, imagine 6 numbers chosen at random from a pool of 49 numbers. There are about 14 million possible configurations. Would you be equally indifferent to every configuration if one of them represented your chosen lottery numbers and you walked into a room containing a ticket with those exact numbers? Would you then assume that that was the only ticket that had been bought that week, or that 14 million tickets had been bought and yours was just one of them?

It reminds me of the quote by Richard Feynman:

“You know, the most amazing thing happened to me tonight... I saw a car with the license plate ARW 357. Can you imagine? Of all the millions of license plates in the state, what was the chance that I would see that particular one tonight? Amazing!”

djembeweaver
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby djembeweaver » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:41 pm

toroid wrote:I just watched the documentary, Particle Fever, about the search for evidence of the Higgs Boson at CERN's LHC.

Apparently at the present time the data confirming the existence of the Higgs Boson doesn't give a clue about whether finding evidence of additional particles is possible or whether future hypotheses of physics will only be unprovable theoretical excercises such as the string theories.

Partical Fever is only available for a fee, but here's a freebie on the subject:
CERN Large Hadron Collider


Many of today's unprovable theoretical exercises become tomorrow's empirical facts (the Higgs is one example...black holes are another). Others are falsified and replaced with better ones. Some theoretical artifacts can never be observed yet still find practical applications (square root of minus 1...Graham's number...Godel's statement "G" deduced with Godel numbers).

What's your point?

toroid
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby toroid » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:26 am

djembeweaver wrote:
What's your point?


I don't understand how the last sentence in your first paragraph relates to the topic, as the examples you name are mathematical concepts. Perhaps you can tell me more, but now I'm focused on phsics data that can be observed by scientific methods.

If it turns out that at the highest beam strengths attainable from the LHC no more particle data is found it'll be appropriate to refocus the search. But If science doesn't know what to search for, it'll be up a proverbial crick without a clue what to do.

My point is it's (not im)possible that humans will never know answers to basic questions about conditions leading to humankind's origins, no matter what is believed correct by critical intellectuals.

djembeweaver
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby djembeweaver » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:56 pm

toroid wrote:

If it turns out that at the highest beam strengths attainable from the LHC no more particle data is found it'll be appropriate to refocus the search. But If science doesn't know what to search for, it'll be up a proverbial crick without a clue what to do.

My point is it's (not im)possible that humans will never know answers to basic questions about conditions leading to humankind's origins, no matter what is believed correct by critical intellectuals.


That is a possibility, but in the search for the answer to that question many other things will be discovered, existing questions answered, new questions posed and tested with experiments leading to theories being created, modified or falsified. All this gives us a deeper understanding of our universe and leads to new technologies with which to control ourselves and our environments. My point is that this process can never be futile even when it fails to deliver in any particular area. The standard model is known to be incomplete, but its ability to make accurate predictions and account for known observations suggests that it is mostly correct. Moreover regardless of its empirical validity it has utility in that it can be used to do useful stuff. Thus (I am told) transistors, lasers, LEDs, microprocessors, semi-conductors and super-conductors along with many other things we take for granted are all direct results of quantum theory.

The LHC might not reveal the origin of the universe, but I bet it will lead to plenty of useful stuff...

toroid
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby toroid » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:17 pm

djembeweaver wrote:...in the search for the answer to that question many other things will be discovered, existing questions answered, new questions posed and tested with experiments leading to theories being created, modified or falsified. All this gives us a deeper understanding of our universe and leads to new technologies with which to control ourselves and our environments. My point is that this process can never be futile even when it fails to deliver in any particular area. The standard model is known to be incomplete, but its ability to make accurate predictions and account for known observations suggests that it is mostly correct. Moreover regardless of its empirical validity it has utility in that it can be used to do useful stuff. Thus (I am told) transistors, lasers, LEDs, microprocessors, semi-conductors and super-conductors along with many other things we take for granted are all direct results of quantum theory.

The LHC might not reveal the origin of the universe, but I bet it will lead to plenty of useful stuff...


Experimental results predicted by quantum theory have never been shown to be wrong even though the particle relationships called for by quantum theory are incomprehensible to the human mind. Quantum theory has been an amazingly useful tool, and, at the fundamental level, no less profound, (if not more so) than relativity.

The scientists featured in Particle Fever are of the opinion that there appears to be a fork in the road regarding the usefullness of the LHC depending on whether, at its maximum beam strength, any new particles beyond the Higgs Boson are observed.

Perhaps Yogi Berra had the most realistic thought about the machine's future (and even the meaning of quantum theory itself); "When you come to a fork in the road, take it!"

toroid
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Re: Scientific evidence for god discovered

Postby toroid » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:55 pm

Gord wrote:Tell us your alternative working theory for the creation of the universe


Two possibilities:
(1) chaotic chance
(2) the laws of nature

(Upon reflection, it's more likely than not that the laws of nature subsume temporary chaos. One characteristic of nature is that it routinely operates in ever repeating, but not identical cycles. A (Big) Bang can logically be thought of as a cycle of nature, one of the longest to be sure, yet if there's one Bang, why not a neverending series of 'em?)


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