Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

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Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:37 pm

A youtube video. "NATURE, Vol 453, Issue 7192, 08 May 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OLkp5K521w

It's only had 677 views, which I think is a shame.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:48 pm

Gord wrote:It's only had 677 views, which I think is a shame.


Well I watched the video. There wasn't really all that much that the scientists could say. It is simply an odd creature. Then again look at our marsupials, they are pretty weird looking as well.

The only thing I regret is that our larger mega fauna died out. I think Australia would be more fun if we still have giant wombats roaming the country side. I've linked some artist impressions.


We had a sheep sized monotreme echidna (spiky ant eater) Zaglossus hacketti
http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/Ar ... 5727-m.jpg

We had a 3metre (10ft) long giant wombat (furry beanbag with four legs that digs holes in your backyard) Diprotodon optatum
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_koA8FRK7rrg/T ... ptatum.png

We had a 3metre (10ft) tall giant kangaroo ( weird furry animal that hops around paddocks) Procoptodon goliah
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g62/T ... ngaroo.jpg

And saddest of all is the Tasmanian tiger (or wolf) or thylacine that only died off in the 1930s. I know it looks like a dog but look at its tail. It is also like a kangaroo and is a marsupial.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Monster » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:03 am

It now has 679 views! So Matthew Ellard and myself were the last two people to watch it since you posted this thread, Gord.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:The only thing I regret is that our larger mega fauna died out. I think Australia would be more fun if we still have giant wombats roaming the country side.

The Aboriginals ate them!

It would also be a darned site more dangerous. What with carnivorous kangaroos, marsupial lions and giant, 7 metre long goannas, and the Demon Duck of Doom!
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:40 am

Major Malfunction wrote:carnivorous kangaroos

Australians know how to handle them.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ninja ... -8tp5.html

...Mr Ettlin followed the thrashing and bleeding two metre tall marsupial and wrestled it into a headlock before dragging it down the hallway and out the front door.

Left wearing just his shredded underpants and with scratch marks on his leg and buttocks, Mr Ettlin described himself as "lucky".

"I had just my Bonds undies on. I felt vulnerable," he said.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:54 am

It's not the undies, per se, but the trace ingredients.

I read somewhere, that if we brought a stone-age hunter-gatherer into the present, he would declare it a paradise and laud the efforts of our ancestors (and his descendants) to rid the world of large predators, thus making the world a safe haven for all our children.

Methinks, perchance, we did too good a job.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:37 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I read somewhere, that if we brought a stone-age hunter-gatherer into the present, he would declare it a paradise and laud the efforts of our ancestors (and his descendants) to rid the world of large predators, thus making the world a safe haven for all our children.

Haha! :mrgreen: I'm reading a book right now that would say the opposite. The author has spent time with some traditional hunter-gatherers, and he found it very calming. Today's hunter-gatherers have to make conscious decisions in order to keep their lifestyles going, because they are being overwhelmed by modern societies. Many go out and work just enough to afford modern medical access for themselves and their families, then return to their easier lives as hunter-gatherers.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:20 pm

Gord wrote:The author has spent time with some traditional hunter-gatherers, and he found it very calming.

It wouldn't be so calming if a 7-metre lizard came crashing through the wall of your bivouac in the night! Which is what I'm saying. It's quite possible that our ancestors hunted the large predators to extinction on purpose! Both to remove the competition, and to protect themselves.

I find the correlation between the arrival of humans and subsequent extinction of the megafauna on every continent to be too strong to dismiss as mere coincidence, or climate change, or whatever weak excuse the human-caused extinction apologists and deniers claim.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:17 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Gord wrote:The author has spent time with some traditional hunter-gatherers, and he found it very calming.

It wouldn't be so calming if a 7-metre lizard came crashing through the wall of your bivouac in the night!

Leave my sex life out of this!
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Kritikos » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:08 am

Okay, wise guys: now where's the genomic analysis of the crocoduck?

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:23 pm

Kritikos wrote:Okay, wise guys: now where's the genomic analysis of the crocoduck?

I leave that up to the Athiest [sic] Nightmare and his trusty sidekick, Kick Cameraoff!
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby xouper » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:57 pm

Gord wrote:
Kritikos wrote:Okay, wise guys: now where's the genomic analysis of the crocoduck?

I leave that up to the Athiest [sic] Nightmare and his trusty sidekick, Kick Cameraoff!

Good call, Gord.

Ray Comfort did such a great job with the banana, I can't wait to see what he comes up with next. :twisted:

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:18 am

Crocoduck!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatosuchus

Anatosuchus ("duck crocodile", the name from the Latin anas ("duck") and the Greek souchos ("crocodile"), for the broad, duck-like snout) is an extinct genus of notosuchian crocodylomorph discovered in Gadoufaoua, Niger, and described by a team of palaeontologists led by the American Paul Sereno in 2003, in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. Its duck-like snout coincidentally makes it resemble a crocoduck, an imagined hybrid animal with the head of a duck and the body of a crocodile.

Image

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:25 am

How closely related is this to the duck-bodied platypus?
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:29 am

Whats the point of the link? The platypus is weird, thats kinda obvious.

OF COURSE our fore fathers killed off all the large threatening animals they could. We are their children, we still do the same today.

Just Look.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 am

Coincidence and only slightly off point: Seeing Evolution in our Own Bodies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFxu7NE ... e=youtu.be

I don't have that tendon in my arms. PROOF, I am more evolved. I always knew it........
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:45 am

ElectricMonk wrote:How closely related is this to the duck-bodied platypus?

They're second cousins so they're allowed to marry even in the US.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:31 am

Gord wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:How closely related is this to the duck-bodied platypus?

They're second cousins so they're allowed to marry even in the US.

Except in Arkansas, where you have to be first cousins or better.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:14 pm

This is interesting: evidently we have the entire dna sequence of one or more complete virii all wrapped up in our own dna==>8% of which is viral and not human. Where did all this possessiveness come from? If "anything" is MINE: its my dna sequencing. The whole string: uniquely mine. with only 4 building blocks, of course minor sequences will be found elsewhere.

Hmmmm....could a "sequence" of dna actually be triggered to make cells produce individual virii to spread again? I'd think, if it could, it would be doing so.





http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/ ... t-wake-up/
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:evidently we have the entire dna sequence of one or more complete virii all wrapped up in our own dna==>8% of which is viral and not human

Point of order: If it's in our DNA, and we're human, and "human" is defined by our DNA, then it is human DNA regardless of how it became part of our DNA.

It doesn't matter than we share it with another species. [Analogy time!] The plans for a building and the plans for an aircraft carrier can both include the same design for stairs, but that doesn't make the building's plans non-building or part aircraft carrier, nor does it make either the building's or the aircraft carrier's stair designs "non-building" or "non-aircraft carrier".
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Flash » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:42 am

And what about the DNA of the alien builders of the pyramids all over the world? The pyramids weren't the only things they could erect... :abd:
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:57 am

Gord wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:evidently we have the entire dna sequence of one or more complete virii all wrapped up in our own dna==>8% of which is viral and not human

Point of order: If it's in our DNA, and we're human, and "human" is defined by our DNA, then it is human DNA regardless of how it became part of our DNA.

It doesn't matter than we share it with another species. [Analogy time!] The plans for a building and the plans for an aircraft carrier can both include the same design for stairs, but that doesn't make the building's plans non-building or part aircraft carrier, nor does it make either the building's or the aircraft carrier's stair designs "non-building" or "non-aircraft carrier".

Thats what I said. /// Now I wonder if that string of virus dna actually "does" anything or does it just sit there as filler? And from that, I'd imagine that some do and some don't. It would be like a set of stairs in an aircraft carrier that don't go anywhere? Those that do, would be part of the human dna, those that go no where would be virus dna. Or not.

Its definitional.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:26 pm

A lot of our DNA is "junk DNA" that doesn't do anything (ranging from 20% to 90% depending on how you define your terms). It's still "ours".
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:46 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:This is interesting: evidently we have the entire dna sequence of one or more complete viris all wrapped up in our own dna==>8% of which is viral and not human.


Actually, the fact we are animals means that we have mitochondria in our cells. Mitochondria was probably a virus that has now become fully carried in animal DNA roughly 1.4 billion years ago. ( Think sea sponges and not things with back bones)

That make a lot of sense if you think about it. Viruses take over existing cells to reproduce their own DNA. I imagine that sometimes there may have been a mutual benefit, for host and virus, and there might be lots of different incredibly old symbiotic relationships with viruses and early cells that have become part of our normal animal DNA.

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gord » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:30 am

I know a guy who has nothing but junk DNA.

(haha, that's a joke! please laugh)
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:30 pm

Gord wrote:I know a guy who has nothing but junk DNA.

(haha, that's a joke! please laugh)

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:42 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Actually, the fact we are animals means that we have mitochondria in our cells. Mitochondria was probably a virus that has now become fully carried in animal DNA roughly 1.4 billion years ago. ( Think sea sponges and not things with back bones)

I'm afraid I have to school you on this, Matt. Mitochondria are organelles. Cells within cells.

They have their own independent DNA from the greater cell, and reproduce independently within the cell. There's no DNA for mitochondria in the cell nucleus. They're a separate little unit with their own DNA.

When a cell divides, some of the mitochondria are taken along in the cytoplasm.

They're not a parasite, as they actually provide great benefit to the cell, producing copious quantities of ATP, which the cell uses for all its energy transactions, all for the price of having a nice comfortable place to live forever. So it's positive symbiosis. Parasitism is negative.

Theory goes, there were a whole bunch of simple primitive cells floating about, and a bunch of them got together, and have been roomies ever since.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:25 am

Major: that is the best correction I have ever read. Matt's entry quite informing all on its own, yours even better. I assume you are correct as it is just a more wonderful process. The intricacies of life showing complexities all the way back to formation. Virus, Bacteria, Hoomans.....gotta be some fungus and mold as well?....ALL THE PHYLUM? Hmmm...what if hoomans are roomies with every phylum group except "x." What would that tell us about x? Is there an x?

Oooooh, I'm on pins and noodles.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:24 am

Well, animals, on a cellular level, are more closely related to mushrooms than plants.

We're basically mobile fungi.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:45 am

MM: could that be true? In what sense. At least plants have male and female sexes, sexual reproduction, and grow from seed to adult. Seems to me mushrooms have that spore phase they go thru: totally different.

Whats the connection you are thinking of?
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:12 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Actually, the fact we are animals means that we have mitochondria in our cells. Mitochondria was probably a virus that has now become fully carried in animal DNA roughly 1.4 billion years ago. ( Think sea sponges and not things with back bones)

Major Malfunction wrote:I'm afraid I have to school you on this, Matt. Mitochondria are organelles. Cells within cells.
I'm talking about 500 million years ago. Mitochondria was a separate creature

Mitochondrial Evolution / http://science.sciencemag.org/content/283/5407/1476
"The serial endosymbiosis theory is a favored model for explaining the origin of mitochondria, a defining event in the evolution of eukaryotic cells. As usually described, this theory posits that mitochondria are the direct descendants of a bacterial endosymbiont that became established at an early stage in a nucleus-containing (but amitochondriate) host cell"

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:40 pm

Matt: you are wrong. Mitochondria are still (to what degree I can't tell what with modified and reduced dna info carried depending on the species) separate creatures==IN SYMBIOSIS with higher order animals.

the wiki was fascinating. When I first learned of mitochondria in high school, they were just "an area" of the cell that produced energy. FANTASTIC their history.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:06 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: you are wrong.
The science paper I linked says I'm right.

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:26 pm

The science paper may be right, but your post/explanation is still wrong.

The link only gives the abstract for me. The abstract alone does not go to whether or not the mitochondria are separate organisms as their group name would suggest (direct descendants of a bacterial endosymbiont), but rather goes to how their separate genetic code arose. I suspect the subject changes greatly depending on WHICH endosymbiont is being addressed.

Revisiting the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrion I can't tell if they reference the same issue as SA....and I don't have the attention span to try and parse through it to a conclusion........... The KEY I think is that mitochondria have their own dna, reproduce on their own or with various help from their host (partner?) dna, and the exist independently in the protoplasm of host tissue. Kinda cool I think. They must sense in some way when to reproduce and spread? I assume only one per host cell? Evolution is cool that way. If they learn to live with the host, they are symbiotic...if they don't evolve this relationship, then they are predators and if good enough they kill off their exclusive food source.

Way kool.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:16 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:The science paper may be right, but your post/explanation is still wrong.

The link only gives the abstract for me. The abstract alone does not go to whether or not the mitochondria are separate organisms as their ........
Not is a separate organism....but was a separate organism...

Like chloroplast, mitochondria is a millions of years old separate organism, in a symbiotic relationship, back then, that has evolved with us and is now carried in our own DNA. It is mitochondria's symbiotic legacy from its ancient reproductive cycle, that means it is only carried on female DNA.

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:19 am

Well, I don't know. Just what I quickly read and only half understand. The Major and wiki describe mitochondria as having its own dna and that it IS a symbiotic organism...or organelle? Let me google (Mitochondria are individual organisms).............http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... mbiosis_04 It quibbles and balances and counterpoints....my view: mito is in very close simbiotic relationship with humans. Mito cannot live without humans...so now.......lets google as my thought is humans (all animals?) cannot live without mitos: (humans live without mitochondria) ....hmmm....within seconds we would start to die from each and every individual cell http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers ... hp?id=4266.

So.....I take it that mito NEEDS human dna in order to reproduce....and ASSUME humans DO NOT NEED mitos dna to reproduce but we would die in the process without them? Seems like a purely definitional distinction between the two "entities." WE think we are all human.......I wonder if the mito thinks the same thing?

Not like tape worms at all.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:46 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:So.....I take it that mito NEEDS human dna in order to reproduce.


All viruses use the host's DNA to reproduce. That's how viruses reproduce, but I'm talking about 500 million years ago.

What you are really asking is " How did the the symbiotic creature's DNA get to be carried on the host cells DNA and handed down?".

Please remember this was 500 million years ago and the host cell, back then, was not a cell as you and I normally think about them.

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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:00 am

Well, its about bacteria--not viruses.

It was 1.5 Billion years ago.

Not all the mito's dna is carried in the partners cells. It varies greatly by species of mito.

I think a cell has always been "about" the same. Its multi-cellular that has changed a lot.

Or not. Just a quick read.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Not is a separate organism....but was a separate organism...

Like chloroplast, mitochondria is a millions of years old separate organism, in a symbiotic relationship, back then, that has evolved with us and is now carried in our own DNA. It is mitochondria's symbiotic legacy from its ancient reproductive cycle, that means it is only carried on female DNA.

No, you're still not getting it. We don't have the coding for mitochondria in our DNA. They have their own. They're entirely separate. If you take all the mitochondria out of a cell it can't build new ones.
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Re: Genome Analysis Of The Duck-Billed Platypus

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:29 am

Major Malfunction wrote: We don't have the coding for mitochondria in our DNA.
Are you saying that mitochondria does not appear on Female human DNA on a normal chromosome? That would be a very strange thing to say. How do you think the DNA for Mitochondria is carried down between generations? :D


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