Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

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Zetsubou_Sensei
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Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Zetsubou_Sensei » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:31 am

I've been trying to look for some decent evidence based research on NDEs but even some of the peer reviewed ones seems to come up with universal consciousness and consciousness survives death, brain states don't always coincide with the self, blind people see things, people with brain damage see the same things so brain stimulation experiments are worthless, etc.


Some examples:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.ezproxy. ... 080.x/full
http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.au ... 7715001474

Please let me know if they're behind a paywall I'll try posting the entire article in the comments section.

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gorgeous
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:21 am

science limits itself....the reality is there are multiple nonphysical dimensions and we are in them...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:30 am

Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:Please let me know if they're behind a paywall I'll try posting the entire article in the comments section.

No you won't.
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:31 am

Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:I've been trying to look for some decent evidence based research on NDEs but even some of the peer reviewed ones seems to come up with universal consciousness and consciousness survives death, brain states don't always coincide with the self, blind people see things, people with brain damage see the same things so brain stimulation experiments are worthless, etc.


Some examples:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.ezproxy. ... 080.x/full
http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.au ... 7715001474

Please let me know if they're behind a paywall I'll try posting the entire article in the comments section.

You only want evidence that you like. Look up "confirmation bias".
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:51 pm

Not another one!
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:07 am

Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:I've been trying to look for some decent evidence based research on NDEs but even some of the peer reviewed ones seems to come up with universal consciousness and consciousness survives death, brain states don't always coincide with the self, blind people see things, people with brain damage see the same things so brain stimulation experiments are worthless, etc.


Some examples:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.ezproxy. ... 080.x/full
http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.au ... 7715001474

Please let me know if they're behind a paywall I'll try posting the entire article in the comments section.

The full text of the last two articles are behind a paywall, and forum rules regarding copyright prohibit the posting of entire articles, or even large sections of articles. Brief excerpts with commentary only.

No idea why you used a proxy in the last two URLs. Here are all three without that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 080.x/full

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7715001474
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:34 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:Not another one!

S/he's been around for a while. :-D
.

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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Gord » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:26 am

Pyrrho wrote:No idea why you used a proxy in the last two URLs.

Some people get banned so often, they use proxies without thinking about why anymore? :pardon:
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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:25 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:Not another one!

S/he's been around for a while. :-D

I'm dead tired of this topic. :wgrin:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Dimebag » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:57 am

What is interesting about the idea of the feeling of disembodiment, is that the feeling of being in a particular position in relation to our bodies is not inherent in the position from which our senses occur, but rather the brain assigns our senses a position within physical space. Most of the time when our brain is functionally normal that position remains where we normally feel our POV resides, however there are ways to disrupt this locational attachment. There are ways of stimulating certain areas of the brain which can produce the same OBE which people describe during NDE's. This shows that the sense of being in a particular position in space is illusory, basically our brains tell our self model that it is in a certain place.

As to why it might do this, well it seems like a rather important thing to ascribe to the self, as it will lead to a natural tendency to protect that location from harm, I.e. The brain.

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Re: Near death experiences show that we need to step out of science?

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:03 am

Well I'm not a good person to ask if there is some sort of proof supporting NDE's or OBE's. I have never seen proof/causation or even decent association, so my personal opinion is one of disbelief until somebody can show otherwise and I would look at that evidence.

And being totally agnostic, I simply do not believe in any gods or deities whatsoever. So I feel that this lack of belief on my part leaves me totally skeptical of these alleged occurrences.

Although, it should possibly be accepted that the mind can engender some amazing experiences. So if a person is a true believer in a god, then his mind is totally acceptant of the possibility of seeing his god, or a sign thereof like the much hyped white light.

OBE's are slightly different in that they are not necessarily linked with one's god. Some people call it Astral Travel, where they can rise above their physical body and look down on it from above. There are many believers of this so called phenomenom and I actually have a good friend who is a believer. But again, there is no known evidence of such a thing happening, except perhaps in one's mind.


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